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> Honda City RS e: HEV, What a mouthful but who is getting it?

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DS51
post Mar 14 2021, 12:07 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Mar 12 2021, 03:48 PM)
9.9 already beat many C, D, crossovers....Some more at that price lor
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Yeah, but still cannot beat X50. Cheaper yet faster. lulz.

QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Mar 13 2021, 02:43 PM)
Source: wapcar

<a href='https://www.<spam link removed>/news/review-driving-the-world%E2%80%99s-first-2020-honda-city-rs-with-immd-in-malaysia-6249' target='_blank'>https://www.<spam link removed>/news/review-driving-t...n-malaysia-6249</a>

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


It is a long read but info and insight packed...May one realize how much first time this model is made only available in Malaysia and not elsewhere in South East Asia.

We are honoured, Honda. Thank you. notworthy.gif
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HM pung pang said world premier,only available in Msia, but then Thai launch and get the car first. Lol. Topkek.
DS51
post Mar 14 2021, 06:19 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Mar 14 2021, 02:52 PM)
Lost on price and century sprint, but won on fuel economy by a big margin. Then the boot space also in City's favour. Another obvious : Stronger Brand

All those could be considering factors for potential buyers. Each on his own.

Please re read the.wapcar article to know what is the difference between the unimpressive City RS spec'd in Thailsnd and ours
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Dude..u share the old news la dei. Thailand get exact model like ours la. lol. Thailand rs not 1.0 turbo one, but exactly same like our city rs.

Yes, the news u share got updated news one. lol. go find the latest article.
DS51
post Mar 15 2021, 11:12 PM

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QUOTE(Mr Mercedes @ Mar 15 2021, 02:44 PM)
Pricewise, maybe. But the 2013 CRZ, sporting a similar setup, albeit with less torque, and being a much older hybrid system, goes from 0-100 in 9 seconds iirc. You'd expect the City Hybrid being faster than 9.9 seconds considering it's Hybrid system is much more advanced than the CRZ, plus the torque figures are fairly impressive on the spec sheet.

Wonder why it doesn't translate to real world performance.
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I always full throttle my crz at traffic light leave car behind and still get quite good fc 11.5km/L. lol.

btw, I expect more too from this 253nm. why so slow nia. If city b segment sedan can touch 8 second, I think it will sell like hot cakes
DS51
post Mar 18 2021, 02:49 PM

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QUOTE(constant_weight @ Mar 16 2021, 11:10 PM)
Don't get taken away by the torque number, it is an illusion.

Gearbox or transmission do 2 things 1)change speed 2)convert torque.
- output gear bigger than input gear = reduce speed, and increase torque
- output gear smaller than input gear = increase speed, and reduce torque

both speed and torque change at the same proportion, one up, the other one down at same ratio.
Which means the horsepower remain constant regardless what gear you are in, only reduced by friction loss. Torque is work, horsepower is work done per unit time. You can take it as how frequent it can apply the torque. Eg:. engine1 100nm 100hp, engine2 50nm 100hp. Let's simplified with the max torque happens at max rpm. Engine2 need double the rpm to reach same 100hp.
For both to move at same speed
- engine1 1000rpm 100nm with 1:1 ratio output 1000rpm 100nm 100hp.
- engine2 2000rpm 50nm with 2:1 ratio output 1000rpm 100nm 100hp.

Electric motor spins very fast, 10,000rpm is very common. I don't have i-MMD traction motor detail spec, for your reference Volvo ERAD motor top up at [email protected]/h, Model 3 Long Range motor [email protected]/h. Thus electric motor has speed reduction gear, which is good. Eg:. 10:1 drop where motor spin 10 rotation, wheel spin 1 rotation, and torque is 10x on the wheel.

Everything are nice and positive for the RS until this point. Here's the 2 limitations.

- First, everyone knows electric motor torque drop off at higher rpm. But Honda never publish the data, we don't know how's the performance, don't know rpm when it hit 108hp, don't know 253nm rpm range. Generally the max torque will only sustain 1/3 to 1/2 of the max rpm range. So expect the 253nm last until 50km/h - 60km/h, a wild guess, depends on the speed reduction ratio and motor torque curve.
This is still ok, consider in ICE when we shift to higher gear, the torque on the wheel drop as well. ICE can get 16:1 - 20:1 (first gear times final drive ratio), more aggressive than electric motor. 2nd gear down to 9:1 to 12:1, and 3rd gear 6:1 to 8:1. So, with more aggressive 1st gear, a 160nm-170nm car might get similar or higher torque on wheel at the first gear.

- The biggest limitation is the 1.5L is only 97hp and the battery is also small 1.3kWh. Conservation of energy, the electric motor can only consume as much power as the engine able to charge the battery. In this car, the engine is less powerful than the electric motor, and charging rate also limited by the generator power. If you in constant high load all the time, you can't get more than 97hp, although this is unlikely to happen on real world. Honda quoted 60% pure EV at 40km/h, and 30% pure EV at 60km/h. The bigger sibling like CR-V, Accord hybrid get 50% pure EV at 60km/h, 30% pure EV at 100km/h. The number are all for stable cruising. So you can see, the ICE won't be able to keep up the charging if you drive aggressively.

It is a utility car for urban usage, designed for low speed city traffic jam economy. Want a fast car, go buy a proper fast car.  laugh.gif
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QUOTE(SleeplessEyes @ Mar 17 2021, 09:23 AM)
All here talk about 0-100 lah, torque lah (yes its important), all related to acceleration to "tapao this car, that car".

Don't know why Honda empathise on super acceleration.
A Hybrid is meant to save fuel - Something Malaysians like to talk. FC FC FC all day.

I have nothing against Hybrids - But Hybrids should not be treated like a drag car on a drag strip.
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QUOTE(BravoZeroTwo @ Mar 17 2021, 10:19 AM)
Agree, Bro. Shouldn't this car be 8 seconds with 253nm of torque?
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QUOTE(McFD2R @ Mar 17 2021, 10:24 AM)
Facepalm when people looking at City but so concerned with performance. Get with the facts that it will never be known for performance. They were designed with efficiency in mind.

If you want quick 0-60 or 0-100, look elsewhere. I have a Vios for my daily, and I couldn't be bothered what it does 0-60/100. I have my Mini Cooper S and M3 for that.

Nothing against people wanting a quick car. Everyone wants a reliable and efficient car, and if it can be fast, it's a bonus. But come on lahh
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But, the promo video super misleading. Its done by Honda itself. Lol.

Try so hard to instill RS is fast. Can overtake in split second.kek.

DS51
post Mar 19 2021, 02:38 PM

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QUOTE(kidmad @ Mar 19 2021, 02:23 PM)
9.9 very slow wor.. it doesn't represent 250nm torque cars. Jazz Hybrid 1.15t 173nm doing around 8.7secs ady.. i was expecting it to be around 6-7 secs region for 253 on that 1.1t body.
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In facebook group, last gen city sport hybrid get 9 second flat already. And ya, I had hear jazz sport hybrid around ur stated figure.

But here, like people said if B segment close to 10 second consider good for City RS. It ain a fast car, just normal b segment.

But city gm6 hybrid already can record 9 second with puny torque. What the hell make way more torque, but slower. then market it as a fast car. lol.

I was expecting more too.

DS51
post Mar 23 2021, 12:18 PM

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QUOTE(mffa @ Mar 23 2021, 12:01 PM)
Er..bmw never critize audi la. that pamplet u dig info on google already know what is all about.

I tot u want to give ads example like 5 series is like honda city rs and camry like audi a6, and 5 series overtake audi a6, then in the end audi a6 owner dissapointed.
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Go have a look at this ads war between bmw and audi. this is how you critique your competitors. So farking smart.

edit: end video, show mercedes been poke somemore. lol.



This post has been edited by DS51: Mar 23 2021, 12:20 PM
DS51
post Mar 23 2021, 06:57 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Mar 23 2021, 06:45 PM)
To me the City vs Camry ad is a welcome change to Malaysia car ad scene: at least it has more creativity

Thailand has been doing it years



And it is also True thar  ad should not be read in too much. Else you will find recent singles buying Camry tongue.gif after the above adv was out
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Er..where the part of Its kutuk competitors in the ads. Seems like none right. So this is okay ma. No problem can tokok miles away. Just dont up ur product by belittle others.
DS51
post Mar 23 2021, 07:09 PM

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QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Mar 23 2021, 07:04 PM)
No kutuk. Yes.

But as as far as ad is concerned, it is exaggeration. I was talking about exaggeration

Here is another one


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same concept like Proton last time. lol.



btw, if proton follow Honda unethical ads, can advertise x50 and make it beat civic like city rs beat camry. but, still not that healthy. lol.

This post has been edited by DS51: Mar 23 2021, 07:10 PM
DS51
post Mar 27 2021, 09:32 PM

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QUOTE(lil_flank @ Mar 27 2021, 07:08 PM)
In the US, it is very common manufacturers kutuk their competitors in their ads. So i dont consider it as unethical. But i find it very amusing, lol..
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Hope can share video here. Want to see it can fight honda ads or not.lol
DS51
post Mar 28 2021, 02:01 AM

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QUOTE(lil_flank @ Mar 27 2021, 10:22 PM)
QUOTE(EnergyAnalyst @ Mar 28 2021, 12:42 AM)


[attachmentid=10823620]
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These ads are classy. very different from Honda one.


QUOTE(Nshade @ Mar 28 2021, 01:01 AM)
These are funny ads. Well thought as well.
Audi vs Porsche felt more like they respect each other as competitor.
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Yeah, I think the massage is different. From the ads, they not belittle others. Malaysia marketer need to learn how to poke competitors properly.

If Honda become Jaguar, they will made a video and put mercedes benz s class in their video, show bad things about magic suspension and show good things about their suspension.

But Jaguar, they are not. Instead they just come out with simple words, to poke mercedes benz. Very intelligent, very classy ads.

This post has been edited by DS51: Mar 28 2021, 02:07 AM

 

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