? You know a lot of non-FSM customer uses FSM free features to screen funds? I think the fund factsheet is accessible (you no need to login FSM as customer to get this) and there is usually a section called Top 5 or Top 10 holdings showing the stock names and the percentage allocated. It will usually also show charts or numbers of the fund performance against the benchmark they are performing against. And many many good features.

Below pls read if you got the time as it is not related to your question but give you some "history" lessons haha.

This lead to ppl like Ramjade in FSM Spore using the FSM features to screen fund and then to escape the quarterly platform fees invest in poems becuz poems,dollarDex fund research material are really limited. Ramjade such investors are not the first nor the last to use such strategy. Back in year 2000 ppl already use the same tactics. Use FSM features screen fund and then invest in dollarDex.

Why then does FSM still give out free info you may ask correct? I can think of two reasons. One is not all about monies it is about the founders behind FSM really passionate about fund investment and willing to share the knowledge to ppl even if those ppl are not FSM customer. They understand there will be ppl like Ramjade tactics but they still proceed. Second I can think of is after sometime serious fund investors know the hard work FSM is doing in fund investing arena that they are willing to fork some fees. Think of it as a way of giving back to some entities that help them make monies. Now FSM has grown beyond just fund into ETF, stocks that is a sign of the company growing up and even IPO in Spore SGX. It now exist in Msia and HK and more countries in future perhaps.

During 2000 FSM and dollarDex are fighting on fund market share in Spore and FSM does impose a sales charge and dollarDex fight on this by making it cheaper. And after 20 years what we see? FSM is listed in SGX and expanding. I think dollarDex aka Navigator Investment Services Ltd is later bought up by Aviva? It shows dollarDex has lost the "war" to FSM essentially but with Aviva backing still around I guess.

Conclusion: Commission,platform,annual etc fees are what a lot of investors want to avoid to reap maximum returns, sometimes we need to ask if the fees are not a lot and it has helped you to make monies it doesn't harm to pay some as after all the platform has a company behind need to maintain infra, employ workers etc.

Serba Dinamik subsidiary defaults on bond coupon payment

just sharing, not sure if it would affect any MMF/FI funds with Serba exposure

Thanks for the insight and some histories.

*I'd seen Ramjade here before.

Since 2021 Alibaba's ant finance gone sour.

you mean the plug pull for the would be IPO listing in HK & Shanghai on Nov 2020?

Are we (FSM) going to have this ?

most probably not,...for i think they had not done 0%sc for ALL equity funds promo for a very long time already

I think in all businesses we need to reach a critical mass in order to launch such promotion. Reason being you need the volume and traffic to absorb the "loss" from business view and hope to "recoup and earn" by a lot more volume bought/sold from customer etc. FSM Spore in the early years do impose a sales charge and it is only years later when they sort of reach enough "business" do they start to offer such promotion at 0% sales charge.

FSM Msia may not have reached that critical mass yet so business wise not able to give such promotion. Give it time to grow like how FSM Spore did way back in year 2000. But not sure FSM Msia face which fund business competitor this time round. I know FSM Spore face off dollarDex in year 2000.

i think FSM Sg, changed their business model....from having sales charge to having annual platform fees.....(which is an reoccurring fees)

StashAway is also on annual recurring fee mechanism just to say. Sales charge upfront means when you put X dollars, upfront you get less than X dollars worth of units which actually hurt more. If you look at fund fact sheet some returns they have two numbers. One as it is and one with sales charged levied. The sales charge do impact your returns more in comparison to the quarterly platform fee in my opinion. If you managed to get a good fund, the returns can help to cover your quarterly platform fee. Of cuz I avoid this as I usually invest using CPF which does not have fees and also usually buy dividend paying funds to help cover the fees. Now I am on diamond tier no quarterly platform fees.

Fees is everywhere. Be it upfront like ETF,stocks,fund etc versus a periodic frequency levied fees you can't escape. As long as the financial instrument you invest give you good returns to help cover that fees and still got profits it is ok in my opinion. Of cuz I understand some investor don't like recurring fees which is ok also just don't invest and look for other financial instruments like stock,ETF for e.g

Just to give an e.g last time I buy from bank 10k sales charge 5% I lost 500. 500 is alot! I only invest 9.5k to buy the units. Imagine I got 10k worth of units and the fund good I get more profits to help pay the fees which is levied only 3 months later and then every quarter.

This post has been edited by sgh: Dec 14 2021, 02:50 PM

If can get the same fund,... Wouldn't it be better to get it from some where that does not hv (of hv lesser) sales charge or platform fees?

Funds with no sales charge and lesser platform fees you got lobang to introduce?

Currently for FSM Spore the quarterly platform fee is below
Equity funds
0.0875% for first S$300,000
0.05% for amount beyond S$300,000
0% for diamond tier client

The 300k is regardless of cash or CPF so you can invest using CPF instead. CPF is equivalent to your Msian EPF,PRS which also enjoy 0% quarterly platform fee also I think. So can follow my last time strategy use FSM for non-cash trade. Unfortunately FSM Msia seem not to have dividend paying funds (I mean dividends paid out not reinvest kind) else cash trade to buy those dividend paying funds.

Poems and dollarDex both I got accounts already. Yes now 2021 I checked they are much better but since I reach diamond tier in FSM no sense to transfer all holdings out to them. Furthermore, poems is still more for stock/etf trading. Usually ppl get the research info from FSM website and then go buy in poems and dollarDex this is normal.

Back in year 2000 in terms of web online (that time no mobile app) interface FSM is still the best. Poems was primarily for stock trading and dollarDex online interface lousy. They lost me as a customer back then. Now want me to go back abit hard as all my holdings already in FSM and no platform fees (reach diamond tier) and now got promotion $100 minimum initial investment for each fund which poems, dollarDex don't have. If say they have I will consider shift some of my cash funds over.

while waiting for time to pass, i googled and found a site that calculates the impact of fees...
SC vs Platform fees

i think the data shows,...
contrary to those that believes, "Sales charge upfront means when you put X dollars, upfront you get less than X dollars worth of units which actually hurt more".

but from the chart, it looks like, sales charge hurts but platform fees hurts more after 10 yrs if at 2%SC....but if can get lesser than 2%SC then the yrs needed to breakeven will be shorter....

i could be wrong,...go play it yourself to see and have fun with numbers...
at this site
https://moneysmart.gov.au/managed-funds-and...-fee-calculator





Attached thumbnail(s)

good that your do read and remembered,...else no lubang to share

This post has been edited by yklooi: Dec 14 2021, 05:20 PM

I got about the same calculation as you indeed based on 0.0875%. If SC can go below 2% say 1.5% over 10 years yes SC fund actually better. That is why I say I use FSM Spore for my CPF funds (0% platform fee) and cash for dividend paying funds. Now dividend paying fund will be tricky as the url assume all get reinvested for easier calculation. If I set to 0.05% (300k above is this value) the SC must go lower to say 1% to be better. But now I have reached diamond tier so all this do not matter to me anymore.

Then stuff that cannot be so easily compared is the minimum initial investment of $100. This will be harder to compare but I get to spread out many different funds for the same X dollars in comparison to X dollars only on one fund. What if this one fund performance very lousy? The opportunity cost I incurred.

So when we evaluate an investment platform we cannot always just focus on fees purely alone. We need to factor in other features offered and if that is also attractive. Some of this feature is harder to measure and more dynamic in nature. Just to say I am not putting everything into FSM Spore as that will be very risky. That is why I still retain my poems and dollarDex accounts for future since now they improve alot.

so i guess the current only plus point on FSMone is only the $100 initial investment features

And also for CPF funds. Maybe to Msian EPF,PRS don't mean much but to us Sporean it meant A LOT Reason being at age 55 we cannot withdraw all so we need to make sure we let our CPF make the most profits as much as possible with the least fees in this case for FSM Spore it is 0% platform fees.

This is why for Sporean investing we treat the difference very big. CPF investment and cash investment. This big difference is also reflected in the funds that are for sale. Fund ABC only cash. Same fund ABC (CPF) purely for CPF. The fund house actually understand the needs and purposely create two separate but actually same fund to lure more investors. The CPF version has lower expense ratio in order to fulfill the requirement in order for it to take investor CPF monies.

Maybe this is Msia forum so many investors don't see the diff but back in Spore forum this CPF vs cash investment is hot debate! A lot of times got new investment instruments we Sporean will ask can use CPF or not as first question.

no wonder,...for some of your posts in FSM MY threads, does not make sense to me (at least)....
noted the highly possible reason for the discrepancies..
but for some mathematical facts,...they are applicable to both forums

This post has been edited by yklooi: Dec 14 2021, 06:45 PM