How about changing the system then? like the US system maybe?
As in opening the medical course to degree holders only? (eg; Graduate entry medicine)~

Then perhaps those who are really determined and willing to study medicine will enter this program?

there is no evidence that a postgraduate system produce better doctors than an undergraduate system.......

in oz, where both systems exist side by side, it was found that the postgraduate schools have difficulties in attracting top applicants......the top school leavers prefer the undergraduate pathway.......and most give up on trying for graduate entry after they have done another degree......instead, the postgraduate med schools get more 2nd tier applicants, interest does not equate to academic excellence........

excellent students find they also excel in their alternative 1st degree programmes, and most opt to follow through on their alternative careers........

that is why uq after experimenting with their graduate 4 year mbbs programme over the last 10 years, now have a double degree programme, 6 years arts/medicine or science/medicine........after the initial 2 years, they get a BA or BSc, and meeting a set cutoff cgpa, embarks automatically on the 1st year mbbs 4 year graduate programme.......that way, they managed to attract some good students who would otherwise have gone to the undergraduate med schools.........

Hi guys, just found this thread.

2nd year from UM.

Well..I actually like the idea of making medicine post grad but sekarang pun bila grad dah jadi anak dara tua.. Kalau tunggu post grad...I'd rather not think about it. Haha..

Actually the current system is fine. Ppl just have to stop romanticizing and glamourizing medicine the way they do now. It makes ppl join the profession cause they think its cool. Waa..kalau I kena tengking mcm dlm Grey's anatomy I pun tak kisah... Mc Steamy can yell at me all he wants..haha. Thats nothing compared to the stuff u hear coming out of ur bosses mouth in real life.. My seniors doing housemanships cry very often..its almost normal!

About the JPA exposure thing..I thought it was fair. Heard that they took the lil ones into morgues and the ER.. Which is good exposure really. Cause corpses don't look smelly in CSI but in real life...p-eww! U'll need that exposure now rather than only realising that after its too late. For me...I was shocked at the smell of the Medical ward. Especially the smell of secretions from tracheostomys...haha. Terkejut!! But I got used to it eventually...

Yes.. the awful smells from morgue, patients and etc. Why gas mask are not used eh? if the med student choses to wear it, i wonder if the med lecturer is going to be pissed? heheh


I think if a Bachelors degree graduate went straight to Graduate entry Medical program (GEM) after graduation, he/she will probably still be able to graduate before reaching 30y.o . There are advantages of graduates entering GEM over fresh school leavers, eg; maturity, experience, extra knowledge, etc (they will be older though )

Too bad there isn't any GEM in Malaysia and graduates wishing to pursue MBBS/MD have to join the traditional 5 / 6 years program.

I think there was even a medical graduate (from MMMC i think), that entered and graduated MBBS even though he was over 50y.o.
Its stated in wiki: MMMC

What do you guys think?

you are all mistaken.......in a graduate med programme, based on the particular country's school system, one should still graduate before 25-26......

in oz, one starts school at 5, and spend 12 years......so will enter uni at 17, and graduate from a 6 year undergraduate med school at 23. if one does a 3 year 1st degree, and a 4 year mbbs, then one graduates at 24.......

in the us, similarly, one starts school at 5, 12 years of grade, junior high and high school, entering college at 17, and graduating at 21, and after 4 years graduate med school, graduate an md at 25........

in msia, one start school at 6, finish stpm at 19, waste 1/2 year before entering ipta, and graduate mbbs at 25..........one would be 1 year faster through the 1 year matrik pathway.......

so there, all the same.........

Yeah, so either they make it all post grad entry like the US, or all undergrad entry to ensure all students are on equal ground.

This post has been edited by munsheng: Aug 31 2008, 11:29 PM

Oh ya har..Lupa pulak in the US u grad high school with a diploma and go straight for a degree after that. We here in malaysia have to go thru pre U first..then degree then only post grad. So techniclly if we adopt the system it would be STPM done by 19, degree by 21 or 22 depending on the course and med school done by 26 or 27. Hehe...habis jadi houseman dah 30..Noooo!!!

I wonder "if" grad entry is allowed and perhaps a "must" for MD/MBBS in IPTA Malaysia, what would happen to quota system?

(nvm.. probably still the same i guess)

This post has been edited by CyberSetan: Sep 1 2008, 12:14 AM

these info is just as it is, for info, so people know what's happening elsewhere in the world......

graduate med school is NOT gonna happen in msia, so let's move on......

Haha..garang! Okay...okay. Moving on...

I'm just wondering why doctors in Malaysia tend to opt to specialise in known fields insted of exploring ones not available but needed here...like geriatrics and some subspecialities in Forensics? Would u guys? And what would u choose?

$$$$$$$$

Money? Dont think so. When we grad, we start with the U41 gaji right then we keep going up. If u take up rare specialities u rise thru the ranks faster thus ur scheme gaji also naik cepat. My forensics lecturer makes more than my senior senior specialist I.M lecturer.

EM is relatively new in malaysia, has good prospect in da future i think..

True true...Theres only ONE intensivist in HTAA, Kuantan and I think he does ALL the work for east coast..poor chap.

i think, if one specializes in certain areas of medicine, particularly that have good demand (eg; surgery - neuro, cardio, etc) = Big $$$ maker (especially in private sector)

..and certain areas of medicine doesn't seem to make the big $$$ (but still can consider big $$$) - eg; psychiatry? or pathology? correct me if i'm wrong but i dont seem to recall much of these in demand in the local newspapers.


This post has been edited by CyberSetan: Sep 1 2008, 02:51 AM

You need loads of skill and $$$ to be able to specialise in certain hardcore areas like neurosurg... not everyone can achieve that level be it academically or financially (or socially ).

Coupled together with the relatively poor specialisation programmes in M'sia, not forgetting the sad fact that biased policies and crap working environment still exist, specialisation particularly in exotic fields is not going to win too many votes.

i would say, choosing or being specialized in certain field of sub specialty is merely a matter 'luck'.
i was once told by my ObGyn specialist that "it seems like most of you would want to be a paediatrician in the near future, but trust me when the time comes 90% of these numbers will end up being an ObGyn specialist, just like i did"
we (~or was it me~), dont really give a hood on what she had told us before until as the time passes, it is so much easier to just take the offer rather than looking for it on your own.

that will be years later...
think about the time spent...
5 years as medical student, 2 years as a houseman, 3 years as MO, then at least another 3 years for post grad...
between MO and post grad, nothing will promise you that you surely can get the speciality you want...also, you need to spend 1-2 or more years just to sit for the exam...again nothing is certain that you can surely get the subject you want...some rare subjects also need some minimum requirement.. unless you wanna get those subjects that no one would want...
then sub speciality another at least 3 years...
by the time you finished your sub speciality you r old enough to be called "uncle" or "pakcik"...
some more, you have to plan your marriage...

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Added on September 1, 2008, 12:51 pmmay be one would take up palliative care...
the demand is increasing as there r more and more people suffering from cancer and gtg to die...

This post has been edited by sjr: Sep 1 2008, 12:51 PM

eh........not quite true.........once you graduate, you will be working and getting paid, even throughout your postgraduate training........more important is getting noticed and selected into a training programme.......which sadly in this country, is still dependent on one's ethnic grouping.......that is why many choose the membership/fellowship pathway, which is purely based on merits........but that is closed for the surgical disciplines unfortunately......

exams do cost some money, how much depends on which pathway you are on.....but should not be a significant amount, unless you keep on failing........which then begs the question: should you be doing postgraduate then.....