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 LYN Official FIA F1 World Championship 2007 Thread, Another McLaren 1-2

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karhoe
post May 28 2007, 11:43 PM

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QUOTE(Hornet @ May 28 2007, 11:28 PM)
It would be unfair to hamilton if there was any team order.

Yeah his car is number 2, doesn't mean he must play number 2. He have the capabilities to challenge alonso, alonso is not invincible.

Anyway I don't see both of them staying together in McLaren for long.
*
Perhaps Lewis in Ferrari soon biggrin.gif
evoHahn
post May 28 2007, 11:43 PM

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QUOTE(eXyzt @ May 28 2007, 11:39 PM)
whatever the punishment (if there is any), I hope it's no more than Ferrari's (if there was any). They had a more blatant team order than McLaren.

I don't like to see team orders but I truly understand what it's all about. It's a tight track and overtaking is extremely difficult. The way Hamilton was driving, he was more likely to crash out than overtake Alonso. That would not only cost the team points but him as well. Understandably he's disappointed that he couldn't push Alonso to the finish but I really don't think the ranking would be different if he did. We're talking about a driver who can hold off Schumacher in a faster car, what more a teammate in virtually the same car?
*
agreed 100 percent.

either way i'm happy that Mclarens are back on top smile.gif
edison92133
post May 29 2007, 12:03 AM

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lets see if this issue drag on to canada, lets see by then what will happen

alonso and lewis surely will be pushing to the max to show who is actually faster and skillful & who deserve to be the number one drive at mclaren while maybe we can see kimi bounce back as well to show to the team that he can beat massa & be the number 1 driver at ferrari

bmw is at third at the moment in the constructors championship, dun think kubica & heidfeld having any big fight over there, hope this black horse team can spring a few surprises & spoil mclaren & ferrari party, haha, that would be fun

renault with fisi definitely look more competitive this week, heikki is still a much need to improve rookie

honda getting better as well, too bad they aren't able to score any points at monaco, after the 1st round of pit stops they look less competitive, maybe some bad settings on the car or bad pit stops strategy...

whistling.gif whistling.gif whistling.gif




TSlinkinstreet
post May 29 2007, 12:09 AM

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QUOTE(karhoe @ May 28 2007, 11:43 PM)
Perhaps Lewis in Ferrari soon  biggrin.gif
*
not gonna happen
- It was his dream to drive for McLaren
- His biggest investor during his days racing lower formula is Ron Dennis
- it was said that his contract is so water tight that no team can touch him for the next 10 seasons
edwin3210
post May 29 2007, 12:14 AM

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QUOTE(edison92133 @ May 29 2007, 12:03 AM)
lets see if this issue drag on to canada, lets see by then what will happen

alonso and lewis surely will be pushing to the max to show who is actually faster and skillful & who deserve to be the number one drive at mclaren while maybe we can see kimi bounce back as well to show to the team that he can beat massa & be the number 1 driver at ferrari

bmw is at third at the moment in the constructors championship, dun think kubica & heidfeld having any big fight over there, hope this black horse team can spring a few surprises & spoil mclaren & ferrari party, haha, that would be fun

renault with fisi definitely look more competitive this week, heikki is still a much need to improve rookie

honda getting better as well, too bad they aren't able to score any points at monaco, after the 1st round of pit stops they look less competitive, maybe some bad settings on the car or bad pit stops strategy...

whistling.gif  whistling.gif  whistling.gif
*
well, i believe it will be a competitive race. with 4 possible winners, i bet lewis will have its first race to win. if kimi continue to be unlucky, massa will have chances to win, else kimi will have higher chance to win. and dont forget about alonso, as well. alonso biggest challenger will be his own teamate, not from ferrari doh.gif
BurgaFlippinMan
post May 29 2007, 12:16 AM

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quote> Hmm, why do Austrian GP of '00 comes to mind?

rules banning team orders didnt exist then! tongue.gif
TSlinkinstreet
post May 29 2007, 12:27 AM

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QUOTE(BurgaFlippinMan @ May 29 2007, 12:16 AM)
quote> Hmm, why do Austrian GP of '00 comes to mind?

rules banning team orders didnt exist then! tongue.gif
*
Sadly you are so wrong. Rule banning team orders were implemented after the 1998 Australian GP when DC gave way to Hakkinen for the win after they agreed that whoever went into the first corner first will win the race. McLaren was never penalised because thye successfully argued that it was the driver's decision, not them. But the rule banning team orders started at that time.
While it was taken for granted every team used team orders while not apparent (the only team never to use this was ironically McLaren, when DC twice punted Hakkinen out of a grand Prix when the Finn was already leading the world championship in 1999), Ferrari's decision to stage the finish of the austrian GP angered FIA because it was blantant
edison92133
post May 29 2007, 12:29 AM

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QUOTE(edwin3210 @ May 29 2007, 12:14 AM)
well, i believe it will be a competitive race. with 4 possible winners, i bet lewis will have its first race to win. if kimi continue to be unlucky, massa will have chances to win, else kimi will have higher chance to win. and dont forget about alonso, as well. alonso biggest challenger will be his own teamate, not from ferrari  doh.gif
*
dun so fast count out ferrari or anyone

mclaren seems to have reliable cars now, but for how long?
kimi having bad luck since australia, but for how long?

now it depends on what the FIA will do, punish mclaren, deduct points? ban them? fined? no one knows yet, everyone just know that the FIA are definitely crazy with their new laws & regulations, forcing all teams to obey them

if lets say suddenly the FIA deduct alonso points, what will happen? alonso is well famous with his mouth already

lewis is a smart guy with excellent driving skills, but the question is does Ron want lewis to be the next champion or alonso?

same situation in ferrari, the team paid so many money to get kimi over and kimi salary is well higher than massa, so what? massa have shown he can score more points than kimi & out qualified him... massa also want to be the number 1 driver, if that really happen i dun think kimi will have the motivation to drive & fight anymore

for me its still early season, anything still can happen, maybe the honda situation can haunt any team also, during winter testing honda made tones of statement on the newspapers saying like their car is fast.... bla bla bla, when race, haha....

race are not won on newspapers.... 1 week++ more to go & lets see whose cars are the best...

icon_rolleyes.gif
edwin3210
post May 29 2007, 12:44 AM

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QUOTE(edison92133 @ May 29 2007, 12:29 AM)
dun so fast count out ferrari or anyone

mclaren seems to have reliable cars now, but for how long?
kimi having bad luck since australia, but for how long?

now it depends on what the FIA will do, punish mclaren, deduct points? ban them? fined? no one knows yet, everyone just know that the FIA are definitely crazy with their new laws & regulations, forcing all teams to obey them

if lets say suddenly the FIA deduct alonso points, what will happen? alonso is well famous with his mouth already

lewis is a smart guy with excellent driving skills, but the question is does Ron want lewis to be the next champion or alonso?

same situation in ferrari, the team paid so many money to get kimi over and kimi salary is well higher than massa, so what? massa have shown he can score more points than kimi & out qualified him... massa also want to be the number 1 driver, if that really happen i dun think kimi will have the motivation to drive & fight anymore

for me its still early season, anything still can happen, maybe the honda situation can haunt any team also, during winter testing honda made tones of statement on the newspapers saying like their car is fast.... bla bla bla, when race, haha....

race are not won on newspapers.... 1 week++ more to go & lets see whose cars are the best...

icon_rolleyes.gif
*
ermm...i miss a part, why FIA wanna deduct points?
BurgaFlippinMan
post May 29 2007, 12:50 AM

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QUOTE(linkinstreet @ May 29 2007, 12:27 AM)
Sadly you are so wrong. Rule banning team orders were implemented after the 1998 Australian GP when DC gave way to Hakkinen for the win after they agreed that whoever went into the first corner first will win the race. McLaren was never penalised because thye successfully argued that it was the driver's decision, not them. But the rule banning team orders started at that time.
While it was taken for granted every team used team orders while not apparent (the only team never to use this was ironically McLaren, when DC twice punted Hakkinen out of a grand Prix when the Finn was already leading the world championship in 1999), Ferrari's decision to stage the finish of the austrian GP angered FIA because it was blantant
*
well in this BBC report about the then new 2003 rules...as well as this quote from here regarding the Austrian 2002 GP

"The team were fined $1m and team orders "contrary to the interests of competition" were later banned from F1."

This post has been edited by BurgaFlippinMan: May 29 2007, 12:55 AM
Hornet
post May 29 2007, 12:52 AM

What?
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QUOTE(karhoe @ May 28 2007, 11:43 PM)
Perhaps Lewis in Ferrari soon  biggrin.gif
*
QUOTE(linkinstreet @ May 29 2007, 12:09 AM)
not gonna happen
- It was his dream to drive for McLaren
- His biggest investor during his days racing lower formula is Ron Dennis
- it was said that his contract is so water tight that no team can touch him for the next 10 seasons
*
Yeah, actually I was thinking more likely we'll see Alonso in a Ferrari, or other team, but I can't see him long in McLaren if he's beating by Lewis or Lewis becomes McLaren number 1.

The way Lewis is performing now, I think McLaren will keep him at all cost, including letting go of Alonso.

QUOTE(edwin3210 @ May 29 2007, 12:14 AM)
well, i believe it will be a competitive race. with 4 possible winners, i bet lewis will have its first race to win. if kimi continue to be unlucky, massa will have chances to win, else kimi will have higher chance to win. and dont forget about alonso, as well. alonso biggest challenger will be his own teamate, not from ferrari  doh.gif
*
next 2 races will be high speed races, so i expect ferrari to be back on top again. Maybe McLaren is currently the faster car, but it's not possible the gap will remains 1 mins outside monaco. The longer wheelbase is hurting Ferrari there...
TSlinkinstreet
post May 29 2007, 01:03 AM

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I do feel that Ferrari will be faster at Canada and USA, as they were faster during teh test run simulating those track at the Paul Ricard the other day. the question is can Kimi hold it together?
But this will also means that Massa can lose vital points to the McLaren duo. And the McLaren are reliable and fast enough to punish any mistake that either driver does. Remember that in 4 out of 5 GP's McLaren managed to get both drivers on the podium.
young_soul
post May 29 2007, 01:28 AM

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QUOTE(linkinstreet @ May 29 2007, 12:09 AM)
not gonna happen
- It was his dream to drive for McLaren
- His biggest investor during his days racing lower formula is Ron Dennis
- it was said that his contract is so water tight that no team can touch him for the next 10 seasons
*
blink.gif blink.gif sounds like Michael....11 years in Ferrari whistling.gif
blah1134
post May 29 2007, 04:55 AM

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i think if hamilton beats alonso, alonso might retire. if i recall properly, alonso said before he wont go to ferrari right ? not sure about this tho. biggrin.gif

about the so called "team orders" at monaco, if ron didnt ask hamilton to slow down, he would have ended up in the barriers. he nearly did that twice ! but it would be fun to watch aint it ? hAhahha. all the drifting, barrier kissing .... hAhahha until one of them crash. laugh.gif too bad it din happen. laugh.gif

mclarens are always fast at monaco, it looks like they have some kind of magic settings for monaco streets. laugh.gif even though they are struggling last year, they are still fast at monaco.

agree with linkin, it seems ferrari will be faster in the next 2 races, based on the test at paul richard. maybe we'll see a ferrari 1-2 at indy smile.gif or maybe we'll see some surprises for mclarens .... cant wait ! laugh.gif

PowerSlide
post May 29 2007, 08:42 AM

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its obviously known hamilton is told to give alonso the win..look at the start..hamilton didnt even try to win the race but more to defend from massa..

f1 is getting more n more pathetic each day..as a racing fan im dissapointed how these races are going..too much drama too much bulltoks n very less racing to watch
SUSRaikkonen
post May 29 2007, 09:15 AM

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QUOTE(PowerSlide @ May 29 2007, 08:42 AM)
its obviously known hamilton is told to give alonso the win..look at the start..hamilton didnt even try to win the race but more to defend from massa..

f1 is getting more n more pathetic each day..as a racing fan im dissapointed how these races are going..too much drama too much bulltoks n very less racing to watch
*
smile.gif
Sweet to see Hamilton won his 1st race.


QUOTE
FIA to investigate McLaren team orders

Ron Dennis (GBR) McLaren Team Owner is interviewed after the race. Formula One World Championship, Rd 5, Monaco Grand Prix, Race, Monte-Carlo, Monaco, Sunday, 27 May 2007Formula One racing's governing body, the FIA, is to investigate McLaren's one-two victory in Sunday's Monaco Grand Prix, following suggestions that team orders played a part in Fernando Alonso's win over Lewis Hamilton.

"The FIA has launched an investigation into incidents involving the McLaren Mercedes team at the 2007 Monaco Grand Prix in light of a possible breach of the International Sporting Code," read an official statement released Monday.

McLaren boss Ron Dennis admitted that the unusual strategic requirements at Monaco meant the team had to more or less decide in advance which driver would win the race, and Alonso and Hamilton were told to hold station in the latter stages of the Grand Prix.

However, Dennis insisted the decision was purely tactical and that the team had not manipulated the result of the race in any way. The FIA will now review the relevant evidence and will make a further announcement in due course.


Source

This post has been edited by Raikkonen: May 29 2007, 09:17 AM
BurgaFlippinMan
post May 29 2007, 09:17 AM

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Ross Brawn slams ITV coverage

Maybe he should try watching Starsports. Bet he'll be banging his head on the wall in frustration. laugh.gif
SUSRaikkonen
post May 29 2007, 09:19 AM

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QUOTE(BurgaFlippinMan @ May 29 2007, 09:17 AM)
Ross Brawn slams ITV coverage

Maybe he should try watching Starsports. Bet he'll be banging his head on the wall in frustration. laugh.gif
*
I didn't know he still care.
Data is crucial to him.
Such a math genius.
Come back to Ferrari lorr...they need you badly.

This post has been edited by Raikkonen: May 29 2007, 09:19 AM
verx
post May 29 2007, 10:24 AM

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QUOTE(PowerSlide @ May 29 2007, 08:42 AM)
its obviously known hamilton is told to give alonso the win..look at the start..hamilton didnt even try to win the race but more to defend from massa..

f1 is getting more n more pathetic each day..as a racing fan im dissapointed how these races are going..too much drama too much bulltoks n very less racing to watch
*
What bullshit is this. Even if they were allowed to race flat out Hamilton would not have leapfrogged Alonso. This is Monaco we are talking about here. And Alonso's lap times on his out lap were just as quick as Hamilton's in lap ones so there was no way Hamilton would have got ahead of Alonso during pit stops as well. You're clearly not a racing fan. F1 was more pathetic back then when Barrichello was forced to let Schumi win.
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post May 29 2007, 10:37 AM

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And he didn't even read what I posted a page earlier. Lewis had more fuel, thus his start WILL BE slower. The McLaren's were on a different kind of strategy alltogether, with Fernando on an optimum strategy and Lewis on a "safety car race" strategy. That's why Fernando romped away at the beginning of the race to establish a lead because he knew that if he lagged behind, he can be leapfrogged by Lewis. Fernando knew his limit and stick to it. Even when Lewis suddenly posted his fastest lap, Fernando immediatly replied with his own (remember that wicked slide at the swimming pool?), which shows he has more in reserve.
And THIS IS monaco. where even drivers like Kimi Raikkonen kissed the barriers. No team wanted to take the chance here. And that's why after a long time, there are not many incident happen here. Personally I wanted them to race myself, but I looked at the team's interest first. Finishing 1-2 is a whole lot better than a non finish. You just wanted them to race because you wanted them to have an accident and have Massa win don't you? Bah hyprocryte!


Added on May 29, 2007, 10:41 amI like this RonSpeak™ explanation
QUOTE
"Team strategy is what you bring to bear to win a grand prix; team orders are what you bring to bear to manipulate a grand prix," explained Dennis.
"We do not, and have not, manipulated grands prix unless there are some exceptional circumstances.
"For example in Australia (1998), someone tapped into our radio and instructed Mika Hakkinen to enter the pits.
"He entered the pits, but I reversed that because that was unfair. That was an outside influence influencing the outcome of the race.
"That is one of the very rare occasions there's been a team order.
"I don't feel uncomfortable with them, but I sleep easy. I have a clear conscience, both with regard to that particular race and this race here (Monaco)."


This post has been edited by linkinstreet: May 29 2007, 10:41 AM

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