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 [Home Appliances] Water Filter/Purifier Thread V2, Drinking Water Treatment System

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leongsem
post May 7 2018, 05:33 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ May 7 2018, 04:59 PM)
Yes, but you need to remove the filter head from the CTM-01 housing because C-complete cartridge is longer than C-CTM-01 cartridge.

If you want cheaper way, just buy the AP2 filter head from Taobao.  Use this keyword: 3M AP2 机頭 to search.
*
then need to replace the head or not?

is it easy to remove? tq
leongsem
post May 7 2018, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ May 7 2018, 04:59 PM)
Yes, but you need to remove the filter head from the CTM-01 housing because C-complete cartridge is longer than C-CTM-01 cartridge.

If you want cheaper way, just buy the AP2 filter head from Taobao.  Use this keyword: 3M AP2 机頭 to search.
*
Hi Bro, if I use ap2 head, do I need to remove the c compete head?

thank you.
aeiou228
post May 7 2018, 06:29 PM

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QUOTE(leongsem @ May 7 2018, 05:33 PM)
then need to replace the head or not?

is it easy to remove? tq
*
Replace what head ? You have only one head which you take out from the ctm-01 plastic housing.
Yes easy to remove, just tear out the plastic housing.

QUOTE(leongsem @ May 7 2018, 05:45 PM)
Hi Bro, if I use ap2 head, do I need to remove the c compete head?

thank you.
*
C-complete is the replacement cartridge without head. You just need to replace the ctm-01 cartridge with c-complete cartridge.

Both c-ctm-01 and c-complete is compatible to AP2 filter head as per picture below:
user posted image

This post has been edited by aeiou228: May 7 2018, 06:30 PM
leongsem
post May 7 2018, 07:03 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ May 7 2018, 06:29 PM)
Replace what head ? You have only one head which you take out from the ctm-01 plastic housing.
Yes easy to remove, just tear out the plastic housing.
C-complete is the replacement cartridge without head. You just need to replace the ctm-01 cartridge with c-complete cartridge.

Both c-ctm-01 and c-complete is compatible to AP2 filter head as per picture below:
user posted image
*
i opted for use ctm01 housimg better

thanks bro.....
hestati
post May 8 2018, 09:23 PM

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QUOTE(aeiou228 @ May 6 2018, 03:21 PM)
These are what RC-EZ-4 does:

NSF 42
http://info.nsf.org/Certified/DWTU/Listing...40&Standard=042
NSF 53
http://info.nsf.org/Certified/DWTU/Listing...40&Standard=053

I've opened up the cartridge and found that carbon block is pretty good size. At least double the size of 3M C-Complete.
*
Sorry, took me some time to check it up.

So yes, can get Disruptor or can get Quantum Disinfection inline filter. Disruptor removes more impurities, but costs more with housings, fittings etc. Quantum Disinfection is pretty much bacteria/viruses only and is usually used as post-filter but it also has granular carbon in it.

I'd say for you, since you're DIY type of person, Disruptor is better. Are you interested in just the cartridge or whole filter (Taiwan NSF housing, JG fittings, tubing)?


A bit off-topic. I know my red signature is annoying since I post in this thread a lot. but I cannot find a way to do only price red. Though HTML has the right code, it still makes the whole line red. Is this a known bug or is it just me? Can someone please try with his signature, to make only 1-2 words out of the line to be different color? I even tried to remove red color alltogether, but it stays!!!

This post has been edited by hestati: May 8 2018, 10:21 PM
hestati
post May 8 2018, 10:14 PM

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One more questions:

Though FD components are NSF, I cannot get NSF certification with FD name on it, at this point it's impossible. BUT! Is there any kind of laboratory/tests/certification that would be value added? I'm talking either local or Singapore. For example, there is SGS in Malaysia, they are reputable international company and can do the test, but how much Malaysians know about it and how much reputation does it have here?

I know there are small independent labs, I'm sure they do analysis just fine, however, I find this analysis useless, because take lead for example, test result may show that there is 0 lead, but what if there's 0 lead in water coming to filter?

Any contaminants that you would be especially interested in? Take lead once again, we can make sure source water has lots of lead, pass it through the filter and show the result (same for chlorine etc).

Any of this is added value, or no? I could probably cooperate with the lab and even film the whole process of testing.
cuber
post May 9 2018, 10:36 PM

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QUOTE(hestati @ May 8 2018, 10:14 PM)
One more questions:

Though FD components are NSF, I cannot get NSF certification with FD name on it, at this point it's impossible. BUT! Is there any kind of laboratory/tests/certification that would be value added? I'm talking either local or Singapore. For example, there is SGS in Malaysia, they are reputable international company and can do the test, but how much Malaysians know about it and how much reputation does it have here?

I know there are small independent labs, I'm sure they do analysis just fine, however, I find this analysis useless, because take lead for example, test result may show that there is 0 lead, but what if there's 0 lead in water coming to filter?

Any contaminants that you would be especially interested in? Take lead once again, we can make sure source water has lots of lead, pass it through the filter and show the result (same for chlorine etc).

Any of this is added value, or no? I could probably cooperate with the lab and even film the whole process of testing.
*
I'm not sure about all these lab reports or anything, but in general, how many percentage of our society actually aware of this NSF or the quality of water. As far as I know, older generation still boiled their drinking water.
Younger generation, well mostly they don't do any research and just buy/choose based on price/advertisement.

I believe everything will be depending on what is the purpose of the water filter itself, I will definitely use FD after going through all those back reading from previous pages. Price wise and quality wise, I don't see anybody is competing or disagree. I'm using the Espring now, I just want to wait until the next filter change, then I will stop using it and change to FD.


Hestati, do you have any POE filtration system? I'm using the the 3M AP902 at the moment.
easywin3
post May 10 2018, 12:07 AM

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QUOTE(hestati @ May 8 2018, 09:23 PM)
A bit off-topic. how to make only 1-2 words out of the line to be different color?
For every [Color] must close with [/Color]

eg: <color=blue>this is</color><color=green> green and not</color><color=yellow> yellow.</color>
this is green and not yellow.
( replace <> with [] )

This post has been edited by easywin3: May 10 2018, 12:13 AM
ar188
post May 10 2018, 01:09 PM

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QUOTE(hestati @ May 8 2018, 10:14 PM)
One more questions:

Though FD components are NSF, I cannot get NSF certification with FD name on it, at this point it's impossible. BUT! Is there any kind of laboratory/tests/certification that would be value added? I'm talking either local or Singapore. For example, there is SGS in Malaysia, they are reputable international company and can do the test, but how much Malaysians know about it and how much reputation does it have here?

I know there are small independent labs, I'm sure they do analysis just fine, however, I find this analysis useless, because take lead for example, test result may show that there is 0 lead, but what if there's 0 lead in water coming to filter?

Any contaminants that you would be especially interested in? Take lead once again, we can make sure source water has lots of lead, pass it through the filter and show the result (same for chlorine etc).

Any of this is added value, or no? I could probably cooperate with the lab and even film the whole process of testing.
*
obviously its not so simple, or else all these DIY companies (like what you are doing) will start their own NSF cert filters.
if so easy, might as well sell 3m filters but relabelled as own brand and comes with NSF cert. even aquaphor dont have it biggrin.gif
hestati
post May 17 2018, 09:35 PM

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Wow, why this thread is dead? After GE everyone's water suddenly improved )))?

I am preparing easy guides on how to choose best water filter (no, it will not just sell Fresca), will post it here as well once ready.

PoE also will be ready soon, there are few changes, but will present it here too (again, just present, not try give a sales pitch).

P.S. signature is still glowing red even though I removed all <color> tags...
cuber
post May 19 2018, 03:46 AM

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QUOTE(hestati @ May 17 2018, 09:35 PM)
Wow, why this thread is dead? After GE everyone's water suddenly improved )))?

I am preparing easy guides on how to choose best water filter (no, it will not just sell Fresca), will post it here as well once ready.

PoE also will be ready soon, there are few changes, but will present it here too (again, just present, not try give a sales pitch).

P.S. signature is still glowing red even though I removed all <color> tags...
*
Whatever guide you provide, if it's based on table of comparison, I'm not sure that is convincing enough. I myself don't know anything about water quality, I'm just blindly trusting the NSF labels.

Let's take for example, your Fresca is not certified by NSF, but the filters inside are from NSF certified brands. However you can't stated blatantly that the Fresca is NSF certified water filter.

Older generation simple thinking, whatever you filter with your water, still boil to drink it, whether the water is filtered or not. As long as the water doesn't smell, boil is enough.

I don't know, but I think if there is a device to simply test the water quality of pre-filter vs filtered water vs any competitive brands of water filters, that would make things clear and easy to make any decision.
But is there any device to do that?

If there is a device that could test a water quality, you don't need to do any guide, just simply show them the test result on the spot.
hestati
post May 19 2018, 05:08 AM

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QUOTE(cuber @ May 19 2018, 03:46 AM)
Whatever guide you provide, if it's based on table of comparison, I'm not sure that is convincing enough. I myself don't know anything about water quality, I'm just blindly trusting the NSF labels.

Let's take for example, your Fresca is not certified by NSF, but the filters inside are from NSF certified brands. However you can't stated blatantly that the Fresca is NSF certified water filter.

Older generation simple thinking, whatever you filter with your water, still boil to drink it, whether the water is filtered or not. As long as the water doesn't smell, boil is enough.

I don't know, but I think if there is a device to simply test the water quality of pre-filter vs filtered water vs any competitive brands of water filters, that would make things clear and easy to make any decision.
But is there any device to do that?

If there is a device that could test a water quality, you don't need to do any guide, just simply show them the test result on the spot.
*
Just few points, I never mentioned that Fresca as a system is NSF certified, but all components are NSF certified.

But NSF certification doesn't tell you much if you don't know what filter can or can't do. For instance, take Easy Complete by 3M, good system, NSF and all, but it doesn't filter bacteria. Take Aquaphor, no NSF, but it does filter bacteria.

And NSF, while it's pretty much the only reputable certification out there, it's not perfect. Problem is that NSF is not quality control system. I always repeat the same story of RO tank we tried to manufacture in China for the previous company I worked for. We got it NSF certified, however some batches of the tank were giving terrible smell to water. We narrowed it down to raw material variances and pulled out of China completely, but if company hadn't decide to do so, who knows how quickly NSF would catch it? Maybe never.

For the independent test, yes it can be done, but here's the issue: what kind of input water to consider? Regular tap water? Not the best idea. Test for every contaminant? Ok, can be done, this is what is done in California, but it's costly, especially if done for many systems. I guess what I can do is to contaminate water with bacteria, lead, cyst, chlorine and pass through various filters, compare the result. But even then, this is when they are new, what happens after 6 months of usage, repeat the test?

P.S. the guide will not tell whether to choose Aquaphor or 3M, it will help to choose between say RO system or UF system, assuming that both systems are made of good components. Meaning it will tell the difference within classes of systems rather than brands.
Jason
post May 19 2018, 07:49 PM

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QUOTE(hestati @ May 17 2018, 09:35 PM)
Wow, why this thread is dead? After GE everyone's water suddenly improved )))?

I am preparing easy guides on how to choose best water filter (no, it will not just sell Fresca), will post it here as well once ready.

PoE also will be ready soon, there are few changes, but will present it here too (again, just present, not try give a sales pitch).

P.S. signature is still glowing red even though I removed all <color> tags...
*
Question. Is it accurate to say that adding a sediment pre-filter to the Waterco Finsbury under sink filter, it is equivalent to your Fresca filter setup?

https://www.waterco.com.au/water-treatment/...ifiers/finsbury

The only reason I would not consider your solution is that I prefer a quick change setup, like Aquaphor.

Are you looking into a version 2 with the convenience feature?

I’m looking for POE and POU for my new home. Goal is to drink straight from the tap.

This post has been edited by Jason: May 19 2018, 07:55 PM
cuber
post May 19 2018, 08:25 PM

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QUOTE(hestati @ May 19 2018, 05:08 AM)
Just few points, I never mentioned that Fresca as a system is NSF certified, but all components are NSF certified.

But NSF certification doesn't tell you much if you don't know what filter can or can't do. For instance, take Easy Complete by 3M, good system, NSF and all, but it doesn't filter bacteria. Take Aquaphor, no NSF, but it does filter bacteria.

And NSF, while it's pretty much the only reputable certification out there, it's not perfect. Problem is that NSF is not quality control system. I always repeat the same story of RO tank we tried to manufacture in China for the previous company I worked for. We got it NSF certified, however some batches of the tank were giving terrible smell to water. We narrowed it down to raw material variances and pulled out of China completely, but if company hadn't decide to do so, who knows how quickly NSF would catch it? Maybe never.

For the independent test, yes it can be done, but here's the issue: what kind of input water to consider? Regular tap water? Not the best idea. Test for every contaminant? Ok, can be done, this is what is done in California, but it's costly, especially if done for many systems. I guess what I can do is to contaminate water with bacteria, lead, cyst, chlorine and pass through various filters, compare the result. But even then, this is when they are new, what happens after 6 months of usage, repeat the test?

P.S. the guide will not tell whether to choose Aquaphor or 3M, it will help to choose between say RO system or UF system, assuming that both systems are made of good components. Meaning it will tell the difference within classes of systems rather than brands.
*
Exactly my point, you can't state that Fresca is NSF certified, but all the components are.


All will be back to the purpose of the water filter, what is the main purpose, if it is only to filter the sediment or rust from the water source, then I believe the sediment filter on the POE is enough.


For me, the main purpose is, I want to drink straight from the tap, and my setup is having 3M AP902 as POE and Espring as POU. This is the only way I can skip the boiling and confident enough to drink from the Espring faucet directly. This is the best setup out there available from 3-4 years ago, because I also learn this from this exact thread 4 years ago.

If you ask me, is this actually safe, I don't know, I blindly trust the NSF certified 3M AP902 and Espring. However I never had my water tested, whether it is safe to drink or not, is there anyway to test the quality of the water coming out from the Espring faucet?

And you could also compare the quality of the water of the direct boiling, I believe this will be a very convincing way to prove that water filter is indeed important and which water filter is actually doing what they are supposed to do.
hestati
post May 19 2018, 09:10 PM

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QUOTE(Jason @ May 19 2018, 07:49 PM)
Question. Is it accurate to say that adding a sediment pre-filter to the Waterco Finsbury under sink filter, it is equivalent to your Fresca filter setup?

https://www.waterco.com.au/water-treatment/...ifiers/finsbury

The only reason I would not consider your solution is that I prefer a quick change setup, like Aquaphor.

Are you looking into a version 2 with the convenience feature?

I’m looking for POE and POU for my new home. Goal is to drink straight from the tap.
*
In terms of functionality, probably yes. In terms of quality of components, not sure where this filter is made and from what components.

If I ever introduce convenient version, it definitely will not be made from USA components, 99% that it will be made in China, and then having non NSF system made in China is risky and not worth it from marketing point of view. It will not be upgradable, will not be washable and will not be universal components and cartridges. In other words, it will be Aquaphor #2 with only benefit of virus protection and added difficulty of marketing non NSF system with non NSF components.

Why don't you consider Aquaphor? With PoE, Aquaphor doesn't even require pre-filter. It's just a question, not trying to influence your decision

This post has been edited by hestati: May 19 2018, 09:11 PM
hestati
post May 20 2018, 01:46 PM

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As promised, here's the guide. I know that most people in this thread are advanced and have a lot of knowledge, so it's not so useful for you, rather it is written for general public. If you have any comments, suggested corrections or some questions, please let me know, I will fix the guide tables accordingly.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
Jason
post May 21 2018, 12:07 AM

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QUOTE(hestati @ May 20 2018, 01:46 PM)
As promised, here's the guide. I know that most people in this thread are advanced and have a lot of knowledge, so it's not so useful for you, rather it is written for general public. If you have any comments, suggested corrections or some questions, please let me know, I will fix the guide tables accordingly.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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How is virus present in water, when it is chlorinated? I remember reading chlorine is very effective at disinfecting virus and bacteria in water.

And yes I am considering the Aquaphor Crystal Eco as well. From reading this thread your Disruptor stage can be added to it as well?

This post has been edited by Jason: May 21 2018, 12:07 AM
hestati
post May 21 2018, 02:26 PM

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QUOTE(Jason @ May 21 2018, 12:07 AM)
How is virus present in water, when it is chlorinated? I remember reading chlorine is very effective at disinfecting virus and bacteria in water.

And yes I am considering the Aquaphor Crystal Eco as well. From reading this thread your Disruptor stage can be added to it as well?
*
Chlorine is very effective in pure water. Meaning that if you have say only H20 and chlorine, then it, in theory, will kill 99.99999% bacteria and viruses. However, the more impurities you have in water, less effective is chlorine. Assuming that water is clean at the treatment facility, so it leaves it as chlorinated, bacteria free. It then goes through pipes, tanks etc where it catches impurities and possibly bacteria/viruses that chlorine cannot fully eliminate anymore. In addition, there are now micro organisms that are resistant to chlorine. So USA for example, being paranoid, started using chloramine, which is very nasty thing and I'd actually call it poison (unlike chlorine which is harmless at small doses). Hope other countries will not follow with chloramine (it's actually banned in European Union).

So yes, chlorine helps, but it doesn't offer 100% protection. Every glass of tap water has lots of bacteria, just that not all of them are harmful. If your filter can't filter bacteria/viruses, better boil the water.

UV faces the same problem. UV light can kill all bacteria in water if water is pure. More impurities, less effective is UV light. This is why UV is mainly used as post RO treatment of relatively pure water coming from water tank (where bacteria can grow).


As for Fresca stage in addition to Aquaphor, it can be done, but it's a bit of waste of money and duplicating UF with Disruptor. Any reason why you wouldn't want to do Fresca Disruptor only, or say 3M C-Complete/FF-Cyst (will have them soon) + Disruptor? Or say Quantum Disinfection (also will be available soon). Just a question smile.gif
Jason
post May 22 2018, 11:04 AM

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QUOTE(hestati @ May 21 2018, 02:26 PM)
Chlorine is very effective in pure water. Meaning that if you have say only H20 and chlorine, then it, in theory, will kill 99.99999% bacteria and viruses. However, the more impurities you have in water, less effective is chlorine. Assuming that water is clean at the treatment facility, so it leaves it as chlorinated, bacteria free. It then goes through pipes, tanks etc where it catches impurities and possibly bacteria/viruses that chlorine cannot fully eliminate anymore. In addition, there are now micro organisms that are resistant to chlorine. So USA for example, being paranoid, started using chloramine, which is very nasty thing and I'd actually call it poison (unlike chlorine which is harmless at small doses). Hope other countries will not follow with chloramine (it's actually banned in European Union).

So yes, chlorine helps, but it doesn't offer 100% protection. Every glass of tap water has lots of bacteria, just that not all of them are harmful. If your filter can't filter bacteria/viruses, better boil the water.

UV faces the same problem. UV light can kill all bacteria in water if water is pure. More impurities, less effective is UV light. This is why UV is mainly used as post RO treatment of relatively pure water coming from water tank (where bacteria can grow).
As for Fresca stage in addition to Aquaphor, it can be done, but it's a bit of waste of money and duplicating UF with Disruptor. Any reason why you wouldn't want to do Fresca Disruptor only, or say 3M C-Complete/FF-Cyst (will have them soon) + Disruptor? Or say Quantum Disinfection (also will be available soon). Just a question smile.gif
*
I backtracked to one of your older posts in here, regarding RO.

I've decided I'll just bite the bullet and get RO. Still cheaper than eSpring.

Now I'm looking for NSF certified 20" big blue POE filter, seems nobody is selling the Pentek 150233 in Malaysia. As it is for long term use, and everyday under the sun, not sure if non-NSF certified ones are safe, as the sun may cause the material/enclosure to break down and leech into the water, I would not know better.

You know anywhere to get the Pentek? Or do you intend to carry it?
hestati
post May 22 2018, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(Jason @ May 22 2018, 11:04 AM)
I backtracked to one of your older posts in here, regarding RO.

I've decided I'll just bite the bullet and get RO. Still cheaper than eSpring.

Now I'm looking for NSF certified 20" big blue POE filter, seems nobody is selling the Pentek 150233 in Malaysia. As it is for long term use, and everyday under the sun, not sure if non-NSF certified ones are safe, as the sun may cause the material/enclosure to break down and leech into the water, I would not know better.

You know anywhere to get the Pentek? Or do you intend to carry it?
*
This could be a good opportunity to present the PoE...

In fact, I was considering bringing PoE based on Pentek. I thought that would be great. But I changed my mind and it was not price related at all, in fact, Pentek housings are slightly cheaper than what I'm bringing now. The thing is...

Pentek used to make these in Mexico, they were of great quality, best housings out there. Now, they are all made in China since about 5 years. Not only the moved production to China, but it seems they simply outsourced it (meaning probably not even Pentek factory makes them), because the design changed so much that old filter head would not fit new design.

I got 2 of these as a sample and tried to install and it's real pain in the butt. You need to use tons, tons of food grade silicone for it not to leak through the seal and to keep this stupid o-ring in the tiny groove. You need to tighten it so much that it almost cracks. Once installed and after trying it 50 times, it seems ok, but imagine that down the line you will need to wash the cartridge or change it, so again, open it, tons of silicone grease, fighting with the o-ring. I had pictures somewhere, if I find it, will post it, there you can see how stupid the o-ring is. I though I'm the only one with this issue, but it seems everyone is facing that with new design (just read their Amazon reviews for instance, even professionals are struggling to make it water tight).

I gave up and instead got double o-ring housing from Taiwan. The quality of these housings is outstanding, day and night compared to Pentek. And because of double o-ring, they are easy to maintain and do not require 1/2 kilo of grease. Coupled with 5 micron pleated polyester filter and pressure gauges, I believe this is the best package out there, so we placed an order. Got first few of 20" and they are sold out, installing last one this Saturday... I have 1 10" left for condo though. Next, larger batch is coming by the end of the month, but we may have an order for 50 to be installed at the new development right away, this is to be confirmed.

As for NSF, I really believe it doesn't matter for PoE for residential applications, what matters is that they don't leak. PoE is not for drinking water anyway. PoU will take care of plastic leaching even if it happens. And even Pentek, as far as I know it's rated NSF for cold water (up to 37.7 degrees, which is 100 Farenheit). If your housing is 12 hours under direct sun, water inside is probably above 40 degrees. In any case, it is made of reinforced, UV resistant polypropylene, and it is chemically stable up to 100C degrees.

The only reason Pentek has NSF is because in some states (California, Nevada etc) everything that is commercial food/water related (restaurants, bakery etc) must have everything NSF certified. Even knifes, forks and cutting boards are NSF. So you can run your business without any filter, it's allowed, but if you install non NSF housing even as PoE, even if you say it's for toilet flushing, they will give you a fine.

So in short, what I offer is:

Made in Taiwan high quality PoE
- 10" for condo, 20" for landed (499RM and 699RM respectively, the whole set)
- double o-ring leak proof design for ease of cleaning/replacing the cartridge
- 2 pressure gauges to be installed before and after, to show when to change/wash filter
- 5 micron pleated polyester cartridge filter, 100% synthetic with no binding material
- washable cartridge, expected life is 2-3 years (depends once again, mainly on iron)
- mounting bracket included

Basically it is 3M AP902, 1/2 price and with longer cartridge life AND indicator gauges AND available in condo configuration. The pics are again, under the spoiler. As usual, any questions, please let me know.

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