Continue from V13

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3392892

http://www.theguardian.com/business/econom...ty-stocks-bonds

http://www.businessspectator.com.au/articl...ubble-it-bursts

This post has been edited by jolokia: Nov 18 2014, 12:12 PM

Forum member post with sense :clap"

By Showtime747

@bearbearwong is a very interesting forum member in LYN. His behaviour brought us lots of fun and at the same time, he showed us many things which we should avoid. There are many mistakes he made, and below are 6 mistakes made by bearbear which I think home buyers and investors alike can "learn" from him and avoid them in their future purchases :

Mistake #1 Confused objective
bearbear's intention to buy a property is for own stay. For own stay, the objective is totally different from investment. For own stay, it is 1 of the 4 daily needs (clothing, food, dwelling and transport). Just like clothing, food and transport, we buy a house when we need it (like marriage). We should not delay because it is our need. We can always choose a budget that suits us. But bearbear wanted designer cloth and BMW instead of something more affordable. He wanted those mid-high end housing >RM600k instead of those RM300k+ which is his actual affordable budget.

Moreover, for own stay, the future rise and fall of market price does not affect him. He still have to own the house if the market price increase by 100%. He can't sell it for profit otherwise he has no roof over his head. Likewise, if the market falls by 50%, he will not sell either. A house for own stay is a need, not an investment which could turn into profit or loss due to price movement


Mistake #2 Buying a property is a 1 time decision
bearbear thought that buying a house is a 1 time decision (like marriage). But in fact, almost everyone have the opportunity to upgrade their house in the future. Therefore, we should buy a property based on our own financial ability at that time. We should not think that we will be stuck with a property for whole life. We can always sell it and upgrade to a better property in the future. Thinking buying a property and will stay in it for the rest of you life will make your purchase decision very difficult


Mistake #3 Timing the market
Nobody knows the timing of market ups and downs. It applies to any market including stock and property. So, it is foolish to time the market for best price. Instead, the best time to buy a property is when you are financially ready and comfortable. Timing the market is like gambling. If you time the market wrongly, the loss is substantial. Just like the DDDs for the last 5-6 years, they have missed the great opportunity of riding the super bull run which has never been seen in malaysia property market history

Over long term, in malaysia property market history, market price will increase between 5%-10% pa on long term average. So, in 20 years time and beyond, the property will appreciate at least 3 times. Of course, there are ups and downs during the 20 years period, but if a person holds a long term view, the price is on an upward linear trend as history has shown us


Mistake #4 want to wear too big a hat
bearbear's salary is only RM4k gross. His saving is only RM40k. But he aspire to buy property in the region of RM600k-RM700k. He has over-stretched his budget. The result would be catastrophic. A property buyer should not over-stretch their financial ability, unless he has backup from PAMA or spouse. With RM4k salary, bearbear should only be looking at property in the region of RM300k-RM400k. However, he even take into account his 3 credit card limit of RM50k in choosing his target property. Using credit card as part of the deposit is plainly a foolish decision

Be truthful to yourself. Weigh your financial ability objectively. Face and social status will be down the drain when repo man knocks on your door.


Mistake #5 getting influenced by his working life
bearbear has a "hazardous" job. His repomen job forces him to meet people who failed financially everyday. When he sees people bankrupt day in day out, he is influenced by them and giving him an impression that many people are facing financial trouble. This could have lead him to believe that most people are not prudent in their financial management and hence, most property buyers are vulnerable to fail. His mindset has become negative and pessimistic. Causing him to read any news and deduce his own findings negatively.

His world becomes doom and gloom and market will crash soon. He cannot see the market objectively anymore. As such, his market outlook causes him to think crash is coming and he should delay his purchase decision.

Property purchase is 1 of our biggest decision. We should be more objective when making such decision. Try to get advice from as many people as possible instead of being influenced by people around you.


Mistake #6 wish the environment to come down to meet his wants instead of working towards achieving his wish
He already has a job. He can work hard to improve his income. If he works towards improving his income by double to RM8k, buying the property of his choice is no more an issue. However, instead of working hard to achieve higher income, he blame the market instead. He whine about the UUU, the flippers, the government etc for causing the price to inflate exponentially until his current salary could not afford.

Instead of working hard, he spend a big proportion of his productive time from 7am - 12 midnight in the forum argue with the UUU and other property buyers. He did not realise he is spending his time unproductively and will not help in his career. He should have use his productive time to work towards how to achieve better career path instead.

We should always bear in mind in this cruel world, nothing will come to you unless you make an effort to achieve it. Ie. there is no free lunch and complaining wouldn't help you get what you wish



I am sure there are more bearbear's mistakes which we can learn. Feel free to add on



This post has been edited by jolokia: Nov 30 2014, 07:54 AM

More Sensible post by member

By Latuk ManutdGiggs (Property Talk Typhoon of 2014 winner)

Bro bear, just to share with u. Since lately ur comrade has been playing with ice cream, let's TOK bout ice cream.

I blif u hav no idea how much profit an ice cream franchise holder is making. Or how high the margin for an ice cream trader.

Tis real life story is bout my Fren hor. Not me har. He is a franchisee, not even a franchiser for a well known ice cream brand. Operating onli one huge kiosk. At the same time he has 2 local cuisine restaurant. All together he has bout 35 staffs. No proper management cos he is running it as it is. 3 outlets onli. He jaga 2 his adik jaga 1.

Nett profit for last financial yr is 2.5m n tis yr approaching 3m b4 closing.

Biz is tough??? Yes. He oso kao beh kao bu saying susah ni susah tu but moolah stil keep flowing in. He is in the rite ind with the rite product. So even during market down, all here stil need to eat. And u need to eat the food tat v can regularly get in town. Fortunately he is in tis category. So dai kui fatt tat hor.

I'm surprise to c some here stil not able to accept tat there r a grp of ppl able to overcome the rough surface ahead. I can't deny majority might b facing trouble in loan but it doesn't prove ddd rite as bro bear did claim tat lotsa hidden income fr lawyers bankers runners or whoeva. Until they show all tis extra incomes kept in dark due to greed n evil intention, banks would not b so silly to just approve the loan to any td&h lo.

I oso seen a guy earning big pocketing oversea income getting loan approved here in malai by showing those docs to banks. Banks Luv them cos they know they r rich in reality but not in malai. And it's pretty sad to c many here working too hard but not justified in term of their income by banks here.

Another FREN came to me last nite who works closely with gov arms providing consultations. He charge 500.00 for an hr Tok. All expenses covered by gov agencies to make sure he reach the destination and back home, with nice accommodation and transportation, but no char boh la. As long as he can keep toking, he has the moolah in his pockets. He is oso act as a sourcing agent to gov agency. Income earned in between is not mandatory to file in irb cos its thru commission basis with recorded in suppliers acc.

Anw, just for sharing. Not saying u r wrong. It's just so unfortunate so happen u r in the wrong ind. maybe u would like to think of the next move in order to make u a beta person at least mentally. U r currently having no trust to prop market yet die die must Hav one super cheap but super gd deal. I can onli say it onli happen in dream tat I'm living in sentosa cove with sgd100k.

This post has been edited by jolokia: Nov 30 2014, 06:51 PM

Reserved

Closed till V13 reaches limit.

This post has been edited by jolokia: Nov 16 2014, 06:06 PM

Reserved

lol... reserved for what items?

Neo bear go get v13 filled up first. Dun kacao here la.

Welcome everyone

your biodata!

https://m.facebook.com/jayel.lord?refsrc=ht....com.my%2F&_rdr

Neo bear, go to Lord. He can help. Make sure in January.

He says he Farking luv science wo. U le??? U Farking luv troll ar???


Attached thumbnail(s)

For good & sensible comments.

As an appreciation & motivating factor for member contribution.

1 of of it is to paste your CV provided you allowed me to do so & don't go lippot..

dunno who leh?

lol post cv? related to property bubble? sumore dupe... trying to make the threads as rubbish as possible? so than ppl stop seeing and posting? can change the market meh?

BBB are getting very funny, dun believe in bubble, but spend time in bubble, dun believe in bubble, but trying to host and troll..what is wrong?

Bearbear you really think this thread will change the market direction meh ?

How many uuu buy property for investment this year? If not why?

they say they hate profiting a lot of monies wor... apparently

what do you mean!!! you really think that talking bad can change the market?

well you guys are pretty much trying isn't?

Lu got watch lard of the ring mou.

new definition for BBB is bear bear buy mah

Dunno wo. Tell me wats wrong har.

http://www.scmp.com/property/hong-kong-chi...ome-prices-soar


For the past three years, Lily Kuang has preferred hanging out at cafes with friends, spending time at the library or even working longer in the office to returning home to her tiny flat too early.

The 35-year-old from Chongqing has been living in a studio flat of about 200 sq ft in Wan Chai after the multinational company she works for sent her from Beijing to Hong Kong, the world's costliest city to buy property.

"I used to live alone in an 80 sq metre (860 sq ft) unit in Beijing," Kuang said. "I was shocked when my budget was only enough to rent such a tiny flat when I moved to Hong Kong. I was even more shocked to see a family of four live in a flat the same size as mine next door!

"I really sympathise with Hong Kong people over their rapidly shrinking living space."

Kuang's flat may be small but it does not come cheap. Every month, she pays HK$9,800 in rent, equivalent to a third of her monthly income in her company's human resources department.

"Rents are too expensive in Hong Kong," she said. "In Beijing, rental expenses were just about 10 per cent of my salary."

Hong Kong rents and home prices rose to fresh highs for the fifth consecutive month in August, forcing foreign and local residents with limited budgets to abandon their hopes for a decent-sized home.

In the five months to August, the average cost of flats smaller than 430 sq ft rose 6 per cent to HK$5.2 million from HK$4.9 million, according to data from the Rating and Valuation Department.

Developers quickly spotted small flats as a lucrative, untapped market in the wake of a sharp fall in big-ticket transactions as a result of the government's cooling measures - credit tightening and an increase in supply - to curb investment demand, particularly from cashed-up mainland buyers.

Early this month, Cheung Kong (Holdings) unveiled the city's tiniest new flat, just 165 sq ft, at its Mont Vert II development in Tai Po, two months after selling a 177 sq ft unit for HK$1.77 million at Mont Vert I.

The 165 sq ft offering was one square foot smaller than one that sold for HK$3.6 million - or HK$20,395 per square foot - at High Place in Kowloon City, built by Henderson Land Development, in October last year.

Sun Hung Kai Properties is also jostling for the lion's share of the mini-flats market with units starting from 160 sq ft in usable floor area - excluding kitchen and washroom - in its proposed 3,400-unit project at the MTR's Nam Cheong Station in Sham Shui Po.

"With housing prices in Hong Kong being the highest in the world, people are forced to turn to smaller but affordable flats," said Charles Chan, Savills' managing director for valuation and professional services.

But the trend - also encouraged by the government putting up more land designated for small flats - has further aggravated the lack of living space in Hong Kong, which has been the world's least affordable housing market for four years in a row, according to United States consulting firm Demographia.

In survey results released in January, it said average home prices had risen to 14.9 times gross annual median income from 13.5 times previously, the highest in the survey's 10-year history.

"Theoretically, tiny flats can achieve higher prices per square foot because of the smaller lump-sum amount [required to buy them]," Chan said.

"From developers' point of view, strong demand for these flats will also reduce their investment risk, so why not build more small flats."

A South China Morning Post survey found major developers are now increasingly moving towards building smaller flats.

In the first eight months of this year, 1,554 units smaller than 215 sq ft in usable area secured permits to get off the ground, up 128 per cent from 680 units in the same period last year.

The phenomenon is a complete reversal of the trend three years ago, when flats of more than 1,000 sq ft were built to cater to cash-rich mainlanders who accounted for nearly 40 per cent of new home purchases and were particularly keen on luxury residential projects.

Victor Lui Ting, a deputy managing director at SHKP, said the developer would increase the supply of small flats in view of the strong demand.

SHKP applied to the Town Planning Board last month for permission to convert four luxury residential projects in northeast New Territories that were providing large flats of up to 2,000 sq ft into 4,000 smaller units, including studios as small as 200 sq ft.

"The marketability of small flats is certainly better than large-sized units," Lui said.

Victor Tin, an associate director at Sino Land, said a tightening of mortgage lending would also help to boost demand for small flats costing between HK$4 million and HK$5 million.

Under the Hong Kong Mortgage Corp's mortgage insurance scheme, buyers of flats costing less than HK$4.5 million can secure mortgage loans of up to 90 per cent of the flat's value.

For SHKP's Nam Cheong Station project, Lui said the plans submitted to the Building Department excluded kitchens, toilets, balconies and petition walls.

"The size of our studio units at Nam Cheong Station is nearly 300 sq ft, while those with one bedroom is 400 sq ft," he said. "They are absolutely liveable and comfortable.

"It is definitely a development trend in accordance with the increase in smaller-sized households. We have seen a growing number of flats being sold to buyers who live alone."

One-person households will account for up to 18 per cent of the population in the next 10 years, compared with 15.2 per cent in 1981, and two-person families will rise to 29 per cent in 2021 from 25 per cent in 2011, according to data released last year by the Census and Statistics Department.

Lui said Hongkongers' living space was not shrinking. "A 300 sq ft unit for one person is not considered small," he said.

This article appeared in the South China Morning Post print edition as Developers squeeze out tiny flats

not buying....leave some for bear bear to choose.

You think speculator hate earn more money, one of the reason is very his risk...

wow, u want to end bubble talk forever?

this thread looks like always the same forummers.

after GST can? more colourful and story

Won't end la. With all funny ddd v r here to stay. How many yrs liao??? How many 10 yrs v hav???

Bear bear need only one, uuu can buy all the way. I believe majority uuu not buy because of high risk.

Bro bear needs onli one. But dunno when n where.

ya lor, still ask ppl to buy within means , it a dampen market waiting for correction/discounts.. many wanted to cash out.. sentimens are weak, they thought giving discounts will be many buying... i think no one buys even discounts...

If uuu not buy this year, how the super ddd bearbear want to buy, no logic lah, uuu should continue buy more first, see got bubble forming or not....

Malaysia is no where land scarcity than Hong Kong & Singapore, Singapore article expressly ruled out Malaysia to have such effect... it cannot

fear factor tak laku.. think about Malai, u want them to stay in 300sq properties? first they do they chop off elite Malai for promoting so..oil & gas

This post has been edited by bearbearwong: Nov 17 2014, 11:24 PM

Yes sir. Buying, and bot liao. Bro needs a house to build a home. I bot one not long ago tis yr. subsales. Not fr Dev.

Bearbear , buying for own stay and investment are different.. Pls take note.

which property invested with 200k is not for own stay? on a different token? why cant seller reduce expected 200k profit?

i find it dumb, it need to be inflated 200k above to qualify for own stay?

This post has been edited by bearbearwong: Nov 17 2014, 11:28 PM

Wat u toking bout har???

definitely no as bad as hk and sin.
but certain lands in hot areas in klang valley and penang are getting scarce.
no surprise to see more & more 400 - 600 sq feet shoe boxes coming out.

Bro bear, will you sell your gt208 for 20k, no right, malaysia car is much more inflated... We still need to talk logic, even i try to be ddd for now.

Need to buy 1 but survey 999,999 locations in msia..

Agree. There is only so much land in png and kv...But certain ppl just doesn't understand.

ahh like this better what... investors dunno thinking what? Malaysia population consist of what? Malai ppl, they are the main market...

when company selling product it targets all type to get maximise profit... these dudes are self stim wanna say prop for rich ppl, when in fact most of them are cinis..

this is a year for cash out... finding water fish to do... property increase all BS story, they also stop buying from developers..

u sure or not? kv no lands? U move all ancestors to sepang also can.. apalah you talking, look at the map, there are forest reserve yet to be open especially cheras areas bukit enggang there..

young man... dun blend too much in new concept, you will be debt bound and had to opt for studio, hands burn, finger burn for staying young, uncle investors caught dumb young buyers

Yup, you are season investor, know how to find the hidden gems and risk, need to alert young investors, market also have raining days.

usually malia area prop prices not so expensive.
the 1 that move up a lot is cannis areas...
the areas that i mentioned is more on cannis areas.

yup racist investors.. they are the BBB here.. tigerr say dog eye look down at you all cant buy that why malai areas tey lazy to invest wor

You wan buy anot if open the land there? Its going farther from prime area. You said urself location is important

Funny how a ball-less kids wan call me young man and give holland advice. Any of ur fren who follow ur advice i pity them

now where got high risk? if not because i stretch to the max liao. sure will sapu more. next year confirm up already.

u call me kid? then damm sad for case for you.. what bcp said

Hi kiddy Bearbear

ya ho....bkt nenas quite big le....when will they build more there?

wow, max stretch example is here.... cant hantam.. cant sell/dont want sell.. buyers opt new launch.. agree? you know this coz you will do the same?

Wan bet how much you younger than me? RM100k okay?

Tell you one secret don't heart attack ok..

Originally area of KV, KL all very small but those devs, investors, flippers, gov that you hate decide to enlarge the area and still call it kv,kl so the value of property can fetch higher.

i think we around the same...

you are 1 year work exp....below 25 confirm. khairy categorised you same group as 15 yrs la...kid lo

kids act is here... need proof?

sure or not? got trolled by kids/

you really take stone hit own foot. dato liew big boss le...you small repoman but both you same age?

your cv already tell everything la.

If he same age datuk liew then I willing to lose 100k to him. Coz at that age earn rm5k loser liao

u got wrongly call or not?

i stretch to max but still don't wan sell cannot meh? i enjoy the stress la....if i sell, i worry i retire early then everyday shake LP.

Bro, market this year slow because lot of investor aka speculator not buying, furthermore with govt intervention, it wouldn't be good for some time, not good to stretch to max, no body can predict accurate what is the future...always keep some when opp come, this is call opp cost.

This post has been edited by SaProp: Nov 17 2014, 11:48 PM

sorry type too fast..dato

Unlike someone who went missing/disappear, selective reading I admit I wrong.

They play with BBW only..cause bbw and student always said them, flippers, investors, devs all over stretched and abit action will result them bankrupt, property market crash

i purposely say stretch to max to make someone horny la

what you guys do to minimise losses? hold in with more cost? and hope got takers when you seling higher?

reduced profit and dispose is better bet.. nowadays due to technology. concept revolves very fast, what 3 tier seucrity, and etc, access card.. soon new project tumb print, how older ones can stay with prices same like new launch after factoring cost?

Wow V14 Huat Ar,

Pity Bear bear, next year stilll homeless for him

if you don sell....you will never loss.

got a question, say since you giuys make develoeprs sales so bad.. if developers start discount 10-20% on top of the rebated price and etc..

what subsales fella will do?"

way you dog eye ah....he already said wan to buy la

by the way, forget to ask you why buy next year?

holding requires cost, holding cost will cut even with profit agree?

This post has been edited by bearbearwong: Nov 17 2014, 11:58 PM

I am not buying next year, agree with bear bear the price will drop

sub sales will do better.

if developer discount 20% then only can sell, high chance of abandon, due to cost overrun. you better don buy from developer. this one no joke.

elaborate further

no. when i buy that time, already plan to hold for long period. if opportunity come, will sell and make few hundred thousand.

icic fight till end? credit lock one... pocket kosong since 70%, dun worry competition from newer launch?

when economy not good, buying under construction unit is high risk because developer may face cash-flow problem and end up abandon the project. the highest risk in buying a prop is project abandon. your whole life stuck with the loan and no house. so better buy sub sales. that's the chance i can make million

you no worry wo....my wife earn a lot too

icic... working class.. commission base..

Buy studio better than tell whole world buying but never buy la.. Bro lying around is not good..

This is stupid question .

Let uncle put some money to your pocket, who ask u buy from developer that have very bad sales..
If bad sales mean bad project lo still wanna bang your head there ah...wanna prove yoursf have very unique eye sigh issit...
So based on reason above, developer bad sales won't affec me coz I won't buy they project

Buy something that have hot demand and everyone grab..

Flip flop developer where can trust...

If Bearbear think this is dead chciken I really

For me developer reputation is one of the major criteria

U no worry subsales / new launch all beyond ur reach?

what ever, important is wan tou sek!

is there any part of bad singapore for them to give discount?

bear bear thought people will just simply sapu all units no care dev status.

Bear2 is true blue flipper.. Look for any chance to flip, reputated developer less meat already..

u think possible or not? like studio cost 800k in pj old and got takers?

you broke his heart la. he is waiting this dead chicken long time liao lo...

if you wan to buy shoe box, buy at CBD area target expat la....buy at housing area for what?

Bro from 350k to 400k is already a big return.. Even klci drop below 1.6k point still need to smoke at behind of it.. Why u need to turn to 800k so greed? U play like this very easy burn ur hand o..

halo...wake up....KV you can't afford now you target SG?