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 LYN Proton Saga/Iswara Driver's Thread! V28, Keep on Keeping on!

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TSQuazacolt
post Mar 18 2015, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(alexwsk @ Mar 18 2015, 04:46 PM)
from these photos, which are the 2 screws?
http://tech.mirage-performance.com/distributorcaprotor.html
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eh wait sorry they are supposed to be bolts instead of screw, refer this picture:
user posted image

the 2 bolts securing the distributor to the engine block.
loosen them (no need remove) and move turn the distributor accordingly
towards front/front bumper/you while doing it = advancing
towards driver/firewall/rear = retarding
zero5177
post Mar 18 2015, 05:47 PM

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QUOTE(davidke20 @ Mar 18 2015, 04:41 PM)
1982 Lancer Fiore Potong 1986 Zakar / 1992 Swaga / 2003 LMSS / 2004 LMST / 2006 LMST Merdeka Edition 4G1x series injin stended setup is for RON88 whistling.gif In Marehsia, the ignition / carb tuning and valvelift are tuned for RON92 by factory stended whistling.gif So, how your magician know which stended tuning should use ar whistling.gif Does he has a blueprint for RON97 may I ask? whistling.gif Wish to borrow and see. Also hor, tuned based on what basis ar? Listen? See? Smell? Touch? Or CO reading? whistling.gif I wonder hmm.gif

p/s: The troll aside, most if not all magician also tune base on RPM/and engine vibration. And ofcourse, use timing light to gauge on ignition timing nia. Otherwise, it is safe to follow the given DIY tuning. Magician is also human, can't tell which is the right setup without CO reading laugh.gif
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He tune with using timing light and one machine that need to attach something on the exhaust pipe and also with some screen showing heart beat like things when rev the car... is that CO reading?
jedi_master
post Mar 18 2015, 05:56 PM

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QUOTE(davidke20 @ Mar 18 2015, 10:18 AM)
Frankly, the 4toto experience was all about responses. And yeah, especially after 5krpm. The trouble is, my 4G13 ran out of breathe at about 6.5krpm. Despite having enough fuel after tuned up the carbs, it can still tarek all the way beyond 8krpm, I don't feel the sprint anymore. Do you get the idea of from 1k ~ 4krpm tarak VTEK, after 5K rpm it goes very smooth and back stickingly fast. But after 6.5k rpm, the backsticking feel gone sad.gif According to magician, the valve train already topped out. The birds already standing at the fence where the stock cam aren't pushing hard enough. Even if we change the cam, a good chance where the valve spring isn't strong enough to retrace the valves any faster, a chance where the valve meets piston is there where standing at 8krpm laugh.gif Added, a friend of mine whose running on reinforced valve spring, customized billet cam blown the valve hell out of the rocker, smashed through the bonnet doh.gif I was lucky to not dig into that deep before I realized I'm spending money into a black hole. 1st gear 8krpm, shift to 2nd ady 6krpm, tarik until 8k, upshift again on 3rd, again stuck at 6krpm++. It feels like totally out of power band. The car isn't going any faster other than the intake and exhaust screaming very nicely, sounding like a real VTEK.

The good thing that I realized after switched back to stock pistoned carbs, it isn't going much slower then when I was 4toto. My tuning was set to the lean side according to the external CO sensor. With slightly retarded ignition, the entire powerband has been switched over to low/mid end. However, the valvelifts has been further released. I wasn't sure why magician set it up that way, but was told due to lean setup and early torque band, the loosen valvelifts will help to sustain inertia during cruising. True enough, the setup gave me a consistent of 13km/l on a regular basis despite the horrible KL traffics. On straight hiway drive back and fro JB will easily yield me 18km/l and above.

It feels like this wub.gif Very spontaneous. Good response. Very driveable.


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Yeah I get it. I went through 3 different cams of increasingly higher duration on my 4 toto. The first cam was mid range torque 27x duration, upgrading to 28x one gave 4-5 whp across the upper band, finally settled on a 29x one, coupled with custom exhaust header finally worked well with the 4 toto's high end love, yielded 20 whp gain between 5000 to 7500 rpm.. Basically I came to conclude that 4 toto on our engine no point except for high revving, and that also must have large cams and well designed exhaust header to unlock its potential. But low end suffers.

And that was it, now back to 1 toto mode. Still using the 29x cam though. No more issue with low-mid range power.
Albert B
post Mar 18 2015, 06:46 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Mar 18 2015, 04:47 PM)
bro, my iswara 1999 auto got RON97 sticker on the fuel lid, which i believe still have sweat.gif
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Maybe the RON 97 sticker on Iswara fuel lid is because at that time there was no RON 95 only RON92 & 97? (RON 95 was introduced in 2009 to replace RON 92)


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Albert B
post Mar 18 2015, 06:49 PM

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QUOTE(mjlau95 @ Mar 18 2015, 12:27 PM)
Anyone know how to remove the rear bumper of the iswara aeroback?
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From Haynes 2 pages. More or less same as posted by cyanboy.


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TSQuazacolt
post Mar 18 2015, 06:51 PM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ Mar 18 2015, 06:46 PM)
Maybe the RON 97 sticker on Iswara fuel lid is because at that time there was no RON 95 only RON92 & 97? (RON 95 was introduced in 2009 to replace RON 92)
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now that you mentioned it thumbup.gif thumbup.gif
alexwsk
post Mar 18 2015, 06:58 PM

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just to confirm, it's the one circled in red and another one at the other side
i can see some gap there so i guess that must be it, but mine is damn tight, cannot loosen it

user posted image
davidke20
post Mar 18 2015, 07:01 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Mar 18 2015, 04:47 PM)
bro, my iswara 1999 auto got RON97 sticker on the fuel lid, which i believe still have sweat.gif
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So, your 4G15 is not from the Fiore 4G15? whistling.gif
davidke20
post Mar 18 2015, 07:02 PM

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QUOTE(zero5177 @ Mar 18 2015, 05:47 PM)
He tune with using timing light and one machine that need to attach something on the exhaust pipe and also with some screen showing heart beat like things when rev the car... is that CO reading?
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thumbup.gif That is 1 good tuner! Were you using RON97 during the tuning? If yes, than it is optimized with RON97 liao.
davidke20
post Mar 18 2015, 07:09 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Mar 18 2015, 06:51 PM)
now that you mentioned it  thumbup.gif  thumbup.gif
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My 1st Potong Night 8v ran very nicely with RON92 without ping at all whistling.gif Until too much pimple, put SKII half year come back, no choice to sell car when needed to drive with umbrella during rainny days yawn.gif
Albert B
post Mar 18 2015, 07:42 PM

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QUOTE(alexwsk @ Mar 18 2015, 06:58 PM)
just to confirm, it's the one circled in red and another one at the other side
i can see some gap there so i guess that must be it, but mine is damn tight, cannot loosen it

You need a swivel head socket type of spanner. If you use ordinary spanner, you are going to wear out the nut until it become rounded.

==edit==
BTW, how will you adjust the timing, using timing strobe light?

This post has been edited by Albert B: Mar 18 2015, 07:58 PM


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TSQuazacolt
post Mar 18 2015, 07:43 PM

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QUOTE(davidke20 @ Mar 18 2015, 07:01 PM)
So, your 4G15 is not from the Fiore 4G15? whistling.gif
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dunno wo laugh.gif
alexwsk
post Mar 18 2015, 08:39 PM

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QUOTE(Albert B @ Mar 18 2015, 07:42 PM)
You need a swivel head socket type of spanner. If you use ordinary spanner, you are going to wear out the nut until it become rounded.

==edit==
BTW, how will you adjust the timing, using timing strobe light?
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i use the spanner from the car boot, did not manage to adjust it yet blush.gif
not such spanner at home, laugh.gif
alexwsk
post Mar 18 2015, 08:40 PM

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QUOTE(zero5177 @ Mar 18 2015, 05:47 PM)
He tune with using timing light and one machine that need to attach something on the exhaust pipe and also with some screen showing heart beat like things when rev the car... is that CO reading?
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where did you tune yours? and how much was it?
Albert B
post Mar 18 2015, 10:14 PM

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QUOTE(alexwsk @ Mar 18 2015, 08:39 PM)
i use the spanner from the car boot, did not manage to adjust it yet  blush.gif
not such spanner at home,  laugh.gif
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No, don't use the spanners in the boot for this job. Some of these tools are not suitable for heavy work. Especially do not trust the folding wheel brace (photo) for opening the wheel nuts - it will crack. Get a proper wheel brace.

You can buy suitable tough tools from DIY shops, hardware shops, hypermarkets etc


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zero5177
post Mar 18 2015, 11:39 PM

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QUOTE(alexwsk @ Mar 18 2015, 08:40 PM)
where did you tune yours? and how much was it?
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I tuned it in Kuantan, he charge RM20 for tuning... but seems like tuned to be more suitable for RON97 sad.gif


zero5177
post Mar 18 2015, 11:41 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Mar 18 2015, 04:47 PM)
bro, my iswara 1999 auto got RON97 sticker on the fuel lid, which i believe still have sweat.gif
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Mine also have that sticker, I willing to give RON97 a try is because of that sticker sweat.gif


zero5177
post Mar 18 2015, 11:45 PM

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QUOTE(davidke20 @ Mar 18 2015, 07:02 PM)
thumbup.gif That is 1 good tuner! Were you using RON97 during the tuning? If yes, than it is optimized with RON97 liao.
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I'm using RON95 that time... not sure how come end up like this sad.gif
Got relate to autochoke? cause my autochoke seems like have issue, difficult to start engine when its cold... will die off easily for the first few seconds if I didn't give a bit rev to it
davidke20
post Mar 19 2015, 06:16 AM

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QUOTE(zero5177 @ Mar 18 2015, 09:32 AM)
Recently I tried pump RON 97 for Iswara 1.3 MT 1 full tank and I get better mileage around 14km/l

Normally with RON 95 only stay within 11-12km/l

Will try 1 more tank RON 97 before GST implementation

And yeah, RON 97 gets better response on this car 
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After all the posting exchange, it is quite confirmed that your butt feel gaves you better placebo, hence lighten your foot and at the same time the car gaves you better mileage

QUOTE(zero5177 @ Mar 18 2015, 11:39 PM)
I tuned it in Kuantan, he charge RM20 for tuning... but seems like tuned to be more suitable for RON97 
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1) A magician that uses timing light, the firing timing has been optimized to the circumstances where the engine health stands
2) A magician that uses ping detector(the hospital heartbeat reader thingy) to read ping can further finalize your ignition timing settings. Usually when procedure 1 is completed, this is the next step to micro decreasing ignition timing to minimize/eliminate ping/knock. Usually they no longer use hand to push anymore(only will do counter clockwise at this point to further retard ignition timing), use a small thing may be test pen to lightly knock on the distributor to get the best setup out of it.
3) A magician that uses CO reader will know how much is the exact carbon monoxide released from your exhaust tail pipe, so he/she can adjust your air flow/idling throttle angle/fuel flow/FICD actuating angle(for aircond), headlights power draw adjustment(oh yes! our Swaga got this feature also!). Adjustment is solely justified base on how much CO emission when the magician go "bem bem" your car, but I bet most magician doesn't do the "bem bem" according to normal driving condition, such as 3krpm! Usually will bem until red line, which is unrealistic. If you go redline often, will you still be worrying on FC? Probably not. If you're an ordinary driver, what is your rev range? Probably 3krpm max laugh.gif
4) A good magician will repeat step no.1 and 2 all over again to reconfirm the 3rd setting does not affect the ignition timing. If ignition timing has to be reset, step 3 may need to redo depending on how far off step 1 is. Usually, an average magician already can gets step 1 right for the 1st time. Hence, there are really no need to repeat the process at all, but for the sake of confirmation, and yes that makes a difference between a good magician and a lousy magician. Usually its not about the skill anymore because the good 1 and bad 1 are almost similarly skillful, but the good 1 will go an extra mile to confirm his setup has been carried up correctly.

AND, for the price of RM20, even he didn't repeat you also should feel grateful ady laugh.gif Nowadays where to find RM20 tuning that involved all the above! notworthy.gif

QUOTE(zero5177 @ Mar 18 2015, 11:45 PM)
I'm using RON95 that time... not sure how come end up like this
Got relate to autochoke? cause my autochoke seems like have issue, difficult to start engine when its cold...  will die off easily for the first few seconds if I didn't give a bit rev to it
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When was the tuning carried out? Carburetor got cuci or not before the tuning? This is a mechanical carburetor engine, any slight change of condition the setting also will deviate, depending on how bad the condition is. Unlike EFi engines can auto adjust everything according to engine health condition. Even our old 4G1x MPi that can't adjust ignition timing automatically also can adjust fuel injection rate to adapt.

Autochoke can be rosak without affecting much other than cold start idling speed. Definitely not affecting of what RON fuel you use laugh.gif

I really curious, how did you obtain the FC reading from your previous posts where you mentioned 14km/l? Is it the FUELLY way? Or the pay RM50, call it a tank? All my life, other than newer high compression vehicles, the 90's designed engine that has significant fuel economy between RON92 and RON97 was my CRX B16A laugh.gif The RON97 will really make hell lot of difference! Not to mention the power output, the fuel economy speaks for itself if it was the CRX. However though, the very same era my Potong Night 1.5S very much like to drink the RON92 red color devilish juice laugh.gif I feels like I can chase my own CRX with a ranjiao Plotong car when my mate is in my Hongda laugh.gif And, when I put RON97 cucumber juice in my Knight, tibai the bugger is like forcing my kids to eat vege lidat doh.gif Go up hill will roll backward geh shakehead.gif
alexwsk
post Mar 19 2015, 09:20 AM

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QUOTE(davidke20 @ Mar 19 2015, 06:16 AM)
1) A magician that uses timing light, the firing timing has been optimized to the circumstances where the engine health stands
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where to find magician in subang/pj area? interested to try out once

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