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 Engine Oil Reviews/Technical talk v2, Everything Automotive lubricants/fluids

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zeng
post Jun 29 2015, 09:18 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jun 29 2015, 08:07 PM)
doh.gif

i sure hope no one buys modern cars now lol
heck, my year 2008+ 4B10 not-so-modern-engine recommends 0w20 so lol.
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Provide engineering facts and figures please , for the sake of general readers in YOUR thread ! rclxub.gif

Grow up , and do NOT rant please. notworthy.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Jun 29 2015, 11:03 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Jun 29 2015, 09:18 PM)
Provide engineering facts and figures please , for the sake of general readers in YOUR thread ! rclxub.gif 

Grow up , and do NOT rant please. notworthy.gif
*
Page 1.
Period .

And please be more civil into this matter and not drag /involve the general readers. smile.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Jun 29 2015, 11:13 PM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Jun 29 2015, 09:05 PM)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

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July 2003? Ilsac gf 3?
empire23
post Jun 30 2015, 04:22 AM

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QUOTE(zeng @ Jun 28 2015, 11:12 AM)
xW20 plus track/harsh usage (whether at local ambient temperature or otherwise) = increased engine components wear.

Engine oil technology of today cannot help , as yet.
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That's over simplified, minimum centistoke is a rule of thumb at best and doesn't take into context maximum centistroke due to tolerances in the engine, especially bearings and journals. It also doesn't take into context film strength and HTHS resistance, which is quite important depending on how well balanced the engine is against non-linear vibrations.

I think an analyzed UOA is still the best, because it is an end result test. That's how we roll when it comes to the massive LNG and cryo compressors when it comes to motors I deal with. Fill, Flush, UOA, bump-test, UOA, final operation and continued UOA (with wobbulator calibrated Bentley Nevada VT probes on all axes)

Best is always to UOA after using a certain oil for 2 OCIs, if a lower viscosity doesn't result in increased wear under the same circumstances, no issue, just stick with the lower one.

QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jun 29 2015, 06:52 PM)
empire23
wei you want to deal with this or not? go entertain him la.

on a serious note, how bad is 80ppm of iron? where is it coming from aside.
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80ppm on a highly boosted engine with cast iron liners is no big deal, so it really depends on the engine. What you have to compare to is other engines of the same type under the same general circumstances.

In the case of a Mitsu engine, it's either coming from the crank, rod or caps, the only steel/iron parts in the engine aside from the valves.
TSQuazacolt
post Jun 30 2015, 04:53 AM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Jun 30 2015, 04:22 AM)
80ppm on a highly boosted engine with cast iron liners is no big deal, so it really depends on the engine. What you have to compare to is other engines of the same type under the same general circumstances.

In the case of a Mitsu engine, it's either coming from the crank, rod or caps, the only steel/iron parts in the engine aside from the valves.
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you know it's going to a dead end when your own UOA result peaks up google search sad.gif

i did find one evo x's 4B11T and they all had better wear than mine sweat.gif
http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo-x-eng...ep-5w-30-a.html

how's the bmw going btw?
i actually had an interesting encounter with a m3 on sg.tua/ulu yam router towards gohtong, mostly my fault for not recognizing immediately that it's a m3 and i was wondering why it had so much fucking power lol (pelting huge amounts of debris/rocks on my car when it pulls sweat.gif )
empire23
post Jun 30 2015, 05:00 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jun 30 2015, 04:53 AM)
you know it's going to a dead end when your own UOA result peaks up google search sad.gif

i did find one evo x's 4B11T and they all had better wear than mine sweat.gif
http://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo-x-eng...ep-5w-30-a.html

how's the bmw going btw?
i actually had an interesting encounter with a m3 on sg.tua/ulu yam router towards gohtong, mostly my fault for not recognizing immediately that it's a m3 and i was wondering why it had so much fucking power lol (pelting huge amounts of debris/rocks on my car when it pulls sweat.gif )
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Maybe organize a group bulk UOA during your track meets. That's what I would do.

It is also worth noting the 4B11T has forged internals and Mahle components, not to mention a full deck up top and a more generous oiling system.

The Bimmer is fine, but I put down money for an M4. But might change my mind and get something else depending on how things go.
izso
post Jun 30 2015, 08:36 AM

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Group UOA.. I want in
TSQuazacolt
post Jun 30 2015, 09:33 AM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Jun 30 2015, 05:00 AM)
Maybe organize a group bulk UOA during your track meets. That's what I would do.

It is also worth noting the 4B11T has forged internals and Mahle components, not to mention a full deck up top and a more generous oiling system.

The Bimmer is fine, but I put down money for an M4. But might change my mind and get something else depending on how things go.
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great idea! if people are willing to fork out money here tongue.gif
you have no idea how long have i preached/find folks to bulk ship. eventually i did manage to get a guy, and he is coincidentally driving an evo x tongue.gif

so based on the way you mention, even if it is turbocharged/very high powered, a 4B11T having less wear than a conventional 4B10 is to be expected? i'm fairly surprised shocking.gif

and lol you seem to be buying cars like buying grocery tongue.gif laugh.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Jun 30 2015, 09:40 AM

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QUOTE(izso @ Jun 30 2015, 08:36 AM)
Group UOA.. I want in
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perfect! the typical fee of $25, and $10 more (total $35 usd) for added TBN analysis.

i already collected a sample (of 300v 0w20) from my recent service at proton, and have also sent out messages to everyone who may be interested that i am doing bulk shipping (or at least try to) and i am willing to wait max up to 5-6 months.

i can't remember what the lab guys mentioned about samples being kept too long before the analysis, however iinm it is fine if it is within 3 or 6 months period.

my copy paste:
QUOTE
Btw who wants to share shipping for used oil analysis? Within 6 months max I can wait

empire23
post Jun 30 2015, 10:09 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jun 30 2015, 09:33 AM)
great idea! if people are willing to fork out money here tongue.gif
you have no idea how long have i preached/find folks to bulk ship. eventually i did manage to get a guy, and he is coincidentally driving an evo x tongue.gif

so based on the way you mention, even if it is turbocharged/very high powered, a 4B11T having less wear than a conventional 4B10 is to be expected? i'm fairly surprised  shocking.gif

and lol you seem to be buying cars like buying grocery tongue.gif laugh.gif
*
That's material science at work. I believe the 4B11T crank is forged and heat treated, all other 4B series engines use cast cranks with lower tolerances and less oiling.

If you drive both the same way, I believe the Evo X would show less wear due to the tolerance of the parts and build of the engine. Might be wrong as I haven't looked into much of the difference in engine design between 4B engines.

Well, I don't have a family to spend on and get paid decently, so might as well lol.


TSQuazacolt
post Jun 30 2015, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Jun 30 2015, 10:09 AM)
That's material science at work. I believe the 4B11T crank is forged and heat treated, all other 4B series engines use cast cranks with lower tolerances and less oiling.

If you drive both the same way, I believe the Evo X would show less wear due to the tolerance of the parts and build of the engine. Might be wrong as I haven't looked into much of the difference in engine design between 4B engines.

Well, I don't have a family to spend on and get paid decently, so might as well lol.
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well this is what makes an evo engine and evo engine, and not cincai BOT a 4B11 and call it a 4B11T like what most local people do aye? tongue.gif

and you just have to make me so jelly as usual blush.gif
zeng
post Jun 30 2015, 09:31 PM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jun 29 2015, 08:07 PM)
doh.gif

TkTunG,
Assuming every other parameters of engine oil being equal ,


Scenario A : operating oil temperature of 9x Celsius (say, at engine rpm 2x00 after more than 30 minutes);

Typical xW30 oil operating viscosity is about 11.x centistokes;

Typical xW40 oil operating viscosity is about 15.0 cSt ;


Scenario B : operating oil temperature of 11x Celsius (say, at engine rpm 4000-6500 on PLUS more than x hours of driving );

Typical xW30 oil operating viscosity is about 7.x cSt;

Typical xW40 oil operating viscosity is about 9.x cSt;
And tentatively referring to my incomplete research as below:-

a) minimum operating viscosity of engine oil pump of about 10-13 cSt;

b) minimum operating viscosity of plain bearings of about 7-10 cSt;

c) ignoring for now, valve train and piston ring/liner etc  minimum viscosity requirements ,if any;
Under Scenario A at 9x Celsius operating , xW30 would be sufficient in terms of wear protection, and

Under Scenario B at 11x celsius operating , xW40 would be strongly recommended over xW30 in terms of wear protection and fuel economy , if any, is ignored.

Just my 2 sen. sweat.gif


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i sure hope no one buys modern cars now lol
heck, my year 2008+ 4B10 not-so-modern-engine recommends 0w20 so lol.
*



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


QUOTE(zeng @ Jun 29 2015, 09:18 PM)
Provide engineering facts and figures please , for the sake of general readers in YOUR thread ! rclxub.gif 

Grow up , and do NOT rant please. notworthy.gif


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


Page 1.
    Period .

And please be more civil into this matter and not drag /involve the general readers. smile.gif
Refer to bold.

a) Provide engineering facts and figures please;

b) Page 1.
Period .

c) Be specific and factual and straight to the point in your reply , if any , my dear friend,

Note: Stop creating distraction please !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sweat.gif





PedangGila
post Jul 3 2015, 08:18 PM

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Walau, my oil still got like 10kkm to go. Gunning for that mythical 15kkm with m1ep.
PedangGila
post Jul 3 2015, 08:21 PM

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Walau, my oil still got like 10kkm to go. Gunning for that mythical 15kkm with m1ep.
TSQuazacolt
post Jul 3 2015, 08:49 PM

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QUOTE(PedangGila @ Jul 3 2015, 08:18 PM)
Walau, my oil still got like 10kkm to go. Gunning for that mythical 15kkm with m1ep.
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thought you on torco lol
PedangGila
post Jul 4 2015, 12:13 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jul 3 2015, 08:49 PM)
thought you on torco lol
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My SR-1r got flushed by miscommunication at its 5k age during maintenance at p2 sc. Then I gatal bought a dozen of m1ep so got stuck with it for another 3 servicesservices, probably for another 2 years.

To my surprise, subaru wrx also force 5kkm oci with w30 oil. I thought that turbo boxer needs w40 oil the very least. If things go according to plan I might be lucky enough to be inside a two pedals cvt scooby. Giving it two years to assess Lineartronic's reliability.
TSQuazacolt
post Jul 4 2015, 12:19 AM

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QUOTE(PedangGila @ Jul 4 2015, 12:13 AM)
My SR-1r got flushed by miscommunication at its 5k age during maintenance at p2 sc. Then I gatal bought a dozen of m1ep so got stuck with it for another 3 servicesservices, probably for another 2 years.

To my surprise, subaru wrx also force 5kkm oci with w30 oil. I thought that turbo boxer needs w40 oil the very least. If things go according to plan I might be lucky enough to be inside a two pedals cvt scooby. Giving it two years to assess Lineartronic's reliability.
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oh my bad just remembered.

i've test driven a scooby lineartronic (legacy 2.5 turbo)
really really fun stuff, takes all the boring away from a D segment car.

no surprise really, the WORLD is moving towards lower viscosity, by hook or by crook.
read up the evo x manual, they recommend xw30 too smile.gif

while the non turbos are in the xw20 already.

myvi owner manual recommends xw20 too btw, while proton campros on xw30.
so ultimately, it is just people's mentality here imho.
PedangGila
post Jul 4 2015, 12:59 AM

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Thats recent development I think for w20 recommendation since it helps in FC, smoother while still able to maintain integrity at higher temps. My manual says w30 the lowest for first batch myvi.

Ive tried altis 1.8 up to 180, had to release because of traffic. It could go 190 or myb 200 as i feel the hp is still there. 2.5l T lagi la power. I got smoked by loaded BAS PERSIARAN toyota hiace uphill only to realized after that it got 2.7 na or 2.5 T. Meh I couldnt even catch Livina 1.8 ST on straight. They're freaking annoying at corners though van/pickup/suv, a moving roadblock.

This post has been edited by PedangGila: Jul 4 2015, 01:02 AM
TSQuazacolt
post Jul 4 2015, 01:17 AM

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QUOTE(PedangGila @ Jul 4 2015, 12:59 AM)
Thats recent development I think for w20 recommendation since it helps in FC, smoother while still able to maintain integrity at higher temps. My manual says w30 the lowest for first batch myvi.

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K3VE ? Google its service /owner manual , you may be surprised
PedangGila
post Jul 4 2015, 01:31 AM

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QUOTE(Quazacolt @ Jul 4 2015, 01:17 AM)
K3VE ? Google its service /owner manual , you may be surprised
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Yep, i just looked at its manual book, nothing but w30 the lowest with API SH tag.

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