Hmm , in what way is this Super 3000 an old/sub par product against New Life ?

Mind elaborating ?

I reckon the Mobil Super 3000 XE 5W30 is a newer product against Mobil 1 New Life 0W40.

http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lubes/PDS/...0_XE_5W-30.aspx

Super 3000 is a low ash engine oil (of 0.8% sulfated ash ) formulated for newer cars fitted with emission after-treatment systems. It's not meant for older engines , say pre-2000 , that comes without emission after-treatment systems.

Whereas Mobil 1 New Life 0W40 is an older formulation (having a higher sulfated ash content of 1.3%) meant for older engines .

http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lubes/PDS/...Life_0W-40.aspx

It's not meant for newer engines with the latest emission after-treatment systems.

Thus, I believe Super 3000 is not sub par against New Life .

Maybe somebody can shed some light on their commencement dates of formulation/manufacturing ??

This post has been edited by zeng: May 17 2015, 09:29 PM

You completely miss the point !

The technical point !


This post has been edited by zeng: May 19 2015, 01:10 AM

Peace

Sorry for being technical and subjective in interpretation.

Good day .

Both oils are suitable for cars with emission after-treatment systems.

For normal driving , of course they are good.

5W30 is supposedly good for fuel economy.

Do take note 5W40 offers better engine protection in terms of viscosity.

In the absence of further data from ELF, I would make reference to certain oils from Mobil fully synthetic range.

A typical operating viscosity of a 5W40 estimates at about 16.8 cSt against 5W30's typical operating viscosity of 13.1 cSt .

IIRC 5W40 probably offers higher HT/HS viscosity than 5W30.

Thus a 5W40 offers better engine protection than a 5W30 , in terms of viscosity. Other oil parameters such as additive type and

quantity etc being disregarded for this comparison.


Note : HT/HS means High Temperature High Shear viscosity.

https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1

HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683) of various viscosity grades

Mobil 1 fully syn oil API SN :-

a) 5W-20 = 2.75 ;

b) 5W-30 = 3.10 ;

c) 10W-30 = 3.00 ;

d) 0W -40 = 3.80 ;

e) 5W-50 = 4.40 ; and

f) 15W-50 = 4.50

This post has been edited by zeng: May 20 2015, 12:24 AM

Thanks for sharing , chemistry101 .

Yeah , these products offer generally better than 'normal' flash point and pour point.

Considering our minimum ambient temperature of about 24 degrees Celsius and a lousy pour point of a weak SF available locally of

minus 6 degree Celsius , I usually ignore an oil's pour point during selection for local use.

What's your take on this approach ?

ELF appears to not disclose its additive package , which is typical of most oil blenders.

Spec sheets of ELF Evolution Full Tech LSX 5W-40 indicates , among others , that it meets ACEA C3 / API SN / MB 229.51 and claims

to be low SAPs etc.

Its designed and is excellent for post-200x engines with emission after-treatment systems.

However, if your pre-2000 car engine comes with push rod/flat tappet lifter/rocker , I would personally avoid this type of low SAPs

engine oils in the context of valve train protections.

Hope it helps.

http://catalog.elf.com/sites/elf/files/pro...0_022014_EN.pdf

On relevance of engine oil HTHS viscosity values (ASTMD4683) to ALL everyday car drivers like you and me :


A) From ASTM website ,

ASTM D4683 - 13

Standard Test Method for Measuring Viscosity of New and Used Engine Oils at High Shear Rate and High Temperature by Tapered Bearing Simulator Viscometer at 150 °C

................................

5.1 Viscosity values at the shear rate and temperature of this test method have been indicated to be related to the viscosity providing hydrodynamic lubrication in automotive and heavy duty engines in severe service.

5.2 The viscosities of engine oils under such high temperatures and shear rates are also related to their effects on fuel efficiency and the importance of high shear rate, high temperature viscosity has been addressed in a number of publications and presentations.


http://www.astm.org/Standards/D4683.htm




B).................So HTHS is related to any engines operating in Severe Service.

Heck , what has this 'engines operating in Severe Service' has got to do with you or me ?????????????????????



C)Your car engine is subjected to 'severe service' , if any one of the following parameters applies to you or me in our everyday driving such as , among others :

a)driving at less than 6 km per trip, then shut down engine;

b)multiple engine starts and multiple engine shut-downs in a day;

c)driving under cold weather/raining days;

d) Frequent idling for long periods of time, such as stop-and-go driving in
heavy traffic. Many vehicles are subjected to this condition twice a day
in commuting to major cities...... KL/PJ/JB/Penang/Singapore folks be warned !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

e)  Sustained highway driving in hot weather (sounds familiar ??), such as vacation travel.


f) Towing a boat or trailer, carrying heavy objects/loads on a rooftop rack/car boot.


g) Driving in dusty conditions, such as dirt or gravel roads. Kampung folks jaga jaga !!


h) Driving on steep hills or mountains on a regular basis. Kaki Genting ? Orang Pahang ?


http://www.aftermarketsuppliers.org/Counci...lish/94-1R1.pdf



HTHS viscosity values has everything to do with your everyday driving habit ................... and Nothing to do with motorsports , in a way.


Folks , wanna better protect your car engines durability , check with ASTM/API on HTHS and its importance to your everyday driving.

This MC3 claims low SAPs, SN and I don't know its phosphorous/SA/calcium contents for now.

Thus , I would be hesitant to select this oil for a Kelisa Kenari.

I would look for SA about 1% or higher with SL or higher specs oils, including mineral oils.

Btw, the Mobil M1 New Life mentioned here some days ago would fit this bill.



Note: I guess this Kelisa engine is flat tappet , correct me if I am wrong.

This post has been edited by zeng: May 22 2015, 09:33 PM

I can understand your points.

At similar value x % SA/phosphorous/sulfur content , A company says it's low SAPs whereas B company says it's mid SAPs. Now

which is which ?

I too am confused at times just like you.

If you notice carefully , i wrote :

""This MC3 claims low SAPs, SN and I don't know its phosphorous/SA/calcium contents for now."" (Note: I apologise

for missing out the word know previously )

Can you see why I am hesitant to recommend this oil for Kelisa/Kenari ??

Now,let's look at this Mobil 1 New Life 0W-40 quoted by Quazacolt having specs of SN, sulfated ash 1.3 % and phosphrous 0.1 %

http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lubes/PDS/...Life_0W-40.aspx

This is the oil specs that I would be comfortable recommending for ck_boon's Kelisa/Kenari.

Pardon my england.

Correction :

""Now,let's look at this Mobil 1 New Life 0W-40 quoted by Quazacolt which is having specs of SN, sulfated ash 1.3 % and phosphrous 0.1 %''"

Any problem ?

I suspect you need to consult a lawyer/English teacher on the meaning of what I wrote at post # 659 and 661 , before you response

further about API thing !!!!!!!

What has this (what I wrote at post # 659 and 661) got to do with 'query API directory' thing ?

Synthetics of X % PAO/Esters >> Synthetics of X % gas-to-liquid base oil >> Synthetics of X % of conventional base oils , no ?

Note: whereby X > 50

xW20 plus track/harsh usage (whether at local ambient temperature or otherwise) = increased engine components wear.

Engine oil technology of today cannot help , as yet.

With this illogical logics , the whole automotive industries including component manufacturers , ACEA , API, JASO, ASTM, Universities , oil industries etc across the world are really dumbs of the highest degree , spending tens (or hundreds) of billions of USD (not RM), not one-off in a period but every single year in all the years to come on wear reduction........ sigh ......

TkTunG,


Assuming every other parameters of engine oil being equal ,


Scenario A : operating oil temperature of 9x Celsius (say, at engine rpm 2x00 after more than 30 minutes);

Typical xW30 oil operating viscosity is about 11.x centistokes;

Typical xW40 oil operating viscosity is about 15.0 cSt ;


Scenario B : operating oil temperature of 11x Celsius (say, at engine rpm 4000-6500 on PLUS more than x hours of driving );

Typical xW30 oil operating viscosity is about 7.x cSt;

Typical xW40 oil operating viscosity is about 9.x cSt;


And tentatively referring to my incomplete research as below:-

a) minimum operating viscosity of engine oil pump of about 10-13 cSt;

b) minimum operating viscosity of plain bearings of about 7-10 cSt;

c) ignoring for now, valve train and piston ring/liner etc minimum viscosity requirements ,if any;


Under Scenario A at 9x Celsius operating , xW30 would be sufficient in terms of wear protection, and

Under Scenario B at 11x celsius operating , xW40 would be strongly recommended over xW30 in terms of wear protection and fuel economy , if any, is ignored.

Just my 2 sen.

Driven by statutory/California CAFE requirements ? ................. or

Driven by wear reduction/ engineering requirements ?

Any wonder VW recommend xW40 , and not xW20 ??

Engine Oils - Fuel Economy vs. Wear


Short answers :

--Auto manufacturers, on the other hand, are concerned about fuel economy. The manufacturer faces big fines if the fleet of cars it produces falls short of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) requirements imposed upon them by the federal government.

--Thinner oils are being used these days for three reasons: They save fuel in test engines( not necessarily in real life engines -- I quote), the viscosity rules have changed, and manufacturers are recommending thinner grades.

--The test oil’s fuel efficiency is compared to the fuel efficiency of a reference oil in the Sequence VI-B test. To pass, the test oil must improve fuel economy one to two percent, depending on viscosity grade. SAE 5W-20 must produce higher relative fuel efficiency than SAE 5W-30.

It is interesting to note that the reference oil is fully PAO synthetic SAE 5W-30. To qualify for the GF-3 Starburst, ordinary mineral oils had to beat the fuel economy of the full synthetic reference oil. (It seems there is more to fuel economy than a magic base oil.)

--The auto manufacturers now recommend thinner oils for their vehicles than in the past. Years ago, SAE 10W-40 was the most commonly recommended viscosity grade, later migrating to SAE 10W-30. SAE 5W-30 is most popular now, but Ford and Honda recommend SAE 5W-20. It is likely that more widespread adoption of SAE 5W-20 and other thin oils may occur to help comply with CAFE requirements.

--Thinner oils have less drag, and therefore less friction and wear. Right? Perhaps in the test engine or engines that experience normal operation. But somewhat thicker oils may offer more protection for more severe operations such as driving through mountains, pulling a boat, dusty conditions, short trips, high rpm, overloading, overheating and overcooling.

--Ford is bumping up against its CAFE requirements and recommends SAE 5W-20 oil for most of its engines in the United States. It claims SAE 5W-20 is optimal for fuel efficiency and wear.

To determine if SAE 5W-20 oils provide the same level of protection as SAE 5W-30 oils, Dagenham Motors in England, one of the largest Ford dealers in Europe, was consulted. SAE 5W-30 is required for warranty purposes in England, and SAE 5W-20 is not even available. If SAE 5W-20 were better for both fuel economy and wear, why would Ford not recommend it for its same engines in Europe?

--As wear increases, the efficiency of an engine declines. Valve train wear slightly changes valve timing and movement. Ring and liner wear affect compression. The wear hurts fuel efficiency and power output by an imperceptible amount at first, but then the difference in fuel economy between an SAE 10W-30 and SAE 5W-20 is hardly noticeable. Efficiency continues to decline as wear progresses. Perhaps optimizing wear protection is the way to reduce fuel consumption over the life of the engine.

--Every fluid is a compromise. Oils recommended by the auto manufacturers seem to compromise protection from wear under severe conditions to gain fuel economy and catalyst durability. It is important to recognize that to use a product that offers more protection from wear will most likely compromise your warranty. Thicker oils also compromise cold temperature flow, which may be of concern depending upon climate and season.

The best protection against wear is probably a product that is a little thicker (such as SAE 10W-30 or 15W-40) and has more antiwear additives than the oils that support the warranty. The best oil for your vehicle depends on your driving habits, the age of your engine and the climate you drive in, but it is not necessarily the type of oil specified in the owner’s manual or stamped on the dipstick.


Long answer is : http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/518/motor-oils

This post has been edited by zeng: Jun 29 2015, 10:01 PM