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> Engine Oil Reviews/Technical talk v2, Everything Automotive lubricants/fluids

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TSQuazacolt
post Aug 5 2014, 12:10 PM, updated 3 months ago

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
4,415 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


Sort of a V2. Considering the departure of Technical talk sub-forum, F&F forum is lacking in technical threads/postings that are derived on logic/facts, with reference materials/links/documents and what not. Really missed those days and hence I hope that with the new thread we can head to a similar direction and have everyone benefit from it.

Useful information/Links:






Quick guide thanks to upontheriversky to get most people started:
QUOTE
1) viscosity at 40 and 100 - the lower the number, the thinner the oil, the better the lubrication. from here, we may sometimes see 0w30 can be much thinner than 10w30.

2) Viscosity index - oil ability to behave at rated viscosity at wide range of temperatures. Higher number means higher viscosity stability. important for high heat engine - turbos and high rev NA. lower number means, the viscosity will change a lot from what stated at the back of bottle at different oil temperature than 40 and 100 celcius so it is not good.

3) NOACK volatility - oil weight loss due to evaporation, the number is in percentage. the lower the better. important for turbos coz even branded oil may have high NOACK number which contributes to oil evaporation even in no-leak engines. As oil evaporates, the lighter weight will give up first, leaving the heavier oil so oil becomes thicker and less performance.

4) High temp/high shear viscosity - oil ability to sustain the mentioned condition, the higher the better. most important for turbos and racing engines.

5) Total Base Number - this is the most important feature for all average users like me to see whether the oil can actually be used for long time or not. this is the reserved alkalinity to resist fuel dilution of engine oil from combustion. Fuel dilution makes the oil acidic and therefore oxidized faster. The higher the better. Higher TBN also usually means the oil has lots of detergent which is good for engine cleanliness. Amsoil has the highest as far as i know. So there is no need for rigid classification of fully syn has to be changed at 10k, semi at 7k and so on, look at the TBN and do ur own comparison. Whatever close to 10 is good, higher is best and lower is so-so only. minimum would be 7-8 as dictated by SAE if im not mistaken

To sum up, 0w20 oil may be very thin but if the Viscosity Index and NOACK is really good, u wont experience as much oil loss or bad engine wear as compared to 10w30 having really bad NOACK and Viscosity Index. The specs are there, we just need to learn how to interpret so that we can all stop beating the bush when it comes to what oil is suitable for our application.

For enthusiast/speed chaser:
- pay attention to all specs mentioned above

For average daily drive and normal maintenance:
- pay particular attention to Total Base Number

If the brand of oil you are comparing does not provide any of the info above, it can simply means that the oil did not pass the test or the test result is not impressive that they hide it so people would still buy. We wont be able to say its bad until we see bad test numbers, so hide it and call it good stuff, people will still buy and call it good. Its all about sales in the end biggrin.gif

for example, try see castrol oil spec whether they have half of the specs i mentioned above and see amsoil, redline and torco specs on the web, these branded oil have nothing to hide biggrin.gif

The above is exactly why i stress on proper certification (eg: API) and proper lab analysis/testing/data sheets/technical specs. smile.gif

Wiki on Engine Oil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

API specifications
http://www.api.org/certification-programs/...NGLISH_2013.pdf
http://www.oilspecifications.org/api_eolcs.php
API Engine Oil Classifications (from infineum)
https://www.infineum.com/media/80723/api-en...sifications.pdf

How much does it cost/royalty fee to get an engine oil certified?

Full documentation on API Licensing/certification/tests

ILSAC GF-5 specifications:
http://www.gf-5.com/uploads/File/ILSAC_GF-...22-09_final.pdf
http://www.gf-5.com/uploads/File/Final-GF5...ent-1-23-08.pdf
http://www.gf-5.com/uploads/File/API%20SN%20Discussion.pdf

PQI America (good site with oil analysis from EO bought off shelves at random)
http://www.pqiamerica.com/
http://www.pqiamerica.com/resourceroom/apiserviceclass.html

Car bible
http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html

BITOG (bob is the oil guy website/forums)
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=cfrm
oil shearing:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/oilshear.htm
viscosity:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/putting-the-...into-viscosity/
esters:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/esters-in-sy...tic-lubricants/
Acceptable levels of wear/guides on oil analysis
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/whatisoilanalysis.htm

Blackstone Labs - one of the more popular labs used by many BITOG members for their oil analysis
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/
explanation on BSL reports:
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/report-explanation.php

API Licencing directory query (very useful to determine whether an Engine oil is actually certified)
https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsSearch

old v1 link:
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1438525
nostalgia lane:
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/2072678
props to upontheriversky upon taking the initiative to learn and debunk on old theories/traditional thoughts.
noticed how many of us were young/unknowing (including myself!)
and this is me staying true to my words brows.gif
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=47469990

some information i have compiled on gear lubrication (for the F5MBB only though):
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=66977922

some GTL discussion (shell/pennzoil pureplus):
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=68597152

lol esters:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ester#List_of_ester_odorants


Motorcycle / Bike Section
main website of JASO:
http://www.jalos.or.jp/
Motorcycle 4T section of JASO:
http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/jaso_e-2.htm

JASO certification application manual, includes classification details and test methods etc:
http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV1105.pdf

List of JASO certified lubricants:
http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf
updated 1st February 2016, so most of the previously printed lubricant on the market may not match this list

external information for JASO:
http://www.oilspecifications.org/jaso.php
further details for JASO MA/MB classifications:
http://www.oilspecifications.org/articles/..._MA_JASO_MB.php


Motorcycle / Bike Front fork/Suspensions fluid (or oil) viscosity charts:
http://www.quazacolt.com/bike/suspensions/...m_Transmoto.pdf

http://www.quazacolt.com/bike/suspensions/...ension_oils.pdf


Motorcycle / Bike chain videos:
Myth of chain lube - wear and tear explained:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

WBW chain lube application reviews:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Chain lube research paper - comparing wax, PTFE, drip oil and un-lubed chain wear:
http://eprints.whiterose.ac.uk/4869/1/leepm7.pdf

bike chain videos and research paper links thanks to forum member alexei

Finally a Motorcycle UOA
Torco T-4SR product page and spec sheet
https://www.torcousa.com/torco_product/t4sr.html
https://www.torcousa.com/technology/T-4SR.pdf
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

related post: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=92734166

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: May 20 2019, 05:45 PM
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 5 2014, 12:10 PM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
4,415 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


For the old review/feedback format, lets try something new:

QUOTE
Brand/model: Motul H-Tech 100 Plus
Official website/link: https://www.motul.com/my/en/products/oils-l...viscosity%5D=33
Technical data sheet: https://www.motul.com/system/product_descri....pdf?1339480271
MSDS if available: Motul requires email details
API license directory if available: https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsRe...520100%2520plus

Viscosity: 5w30
Price: RM180/4 Liter

Vehicle used on: Proton Iswara 4g15 AT, Nissan Sentra N16 AT
Comments/Feedback: Satisfying, able to withstand extended OCI (oil change intervals) easily without any performance degradation even until the very end prior to draining. I've ran 14-16k km/6months to around a year of OCI without issues.

Engine internals are still sparkling clean on the over 300k km year 1999 iswara, while the 170k km year 2007 Sentra did not show any signs of sludge build up whatsoever. High RPM/red lines are still smooth and without any noticeable issue even towards the very end of the extended OCI.

Take note that both cars have their oil filters replaced halfway of their respective engine oil life cycle.
Copy paste template:
CODE

[B]Brand/model:[/B]
[B]Official website/link:[/B]
[B]Technical data sheet:[/B]
[B]MSDS if available:[/B]
[B]API license directory if available:[/B]

[B]Viscosity:[/B]
[B]Price:[/B]

[B]Vehicle used on:[/B]
[B]Comments/Feedback:[/B]






Ok i have to park some UOA samples here as i reached image posting limitation per post sad.gif
So for now, anything GT86 related will sit here.


Quazacolt's UOA (used oil analysis) samples:

Toyota GT86
Engine
Unknown oil that came with Recond car
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Motul 300v 0w20
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Penrite Racing 0 0w20
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Transmission
Motul Gear 300 75w90
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

related posts: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=92721706
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=99008337


Contributions from friends within GT86 BRZ group Malaysia
GT86 Shell Helix Ultra GTL 5w40 from Giant Promotion (Made in Germany)
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

GT86 Eneos Sustina 0w20
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

BRZ Motul 300v 5w30
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

related posts: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=92714301
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=99008337

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Nov 21 2020, 03:16 PM
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 5 2014, 12:15 PM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
4,415 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


Other information

Viscosity converting table:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/viscosit...rter-d_413.html

Torco's API certification screencapture:
Attached Image
https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsRe...anyName%3Dtorco
Torco replies to my query:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



the initial reply before the more formatted/detailed one:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


Another add on from sifu/staff pertaining Torco's reply
QUOTE(sleepwalker @ Jul 31 2012, 03:42 PM)
Rather interesting reply from Torco and a lot will think, wow.. definitely good stuff. Then again, if you do a little research into why API has been reducing the amount of zinc in the engine oil, you will understand why Torco can't get the API donut.

Check this link to know why API standards have been reducing the zinc content.

http://www.streetrodderweb.com/tech/0803sr...il/viewall.html

Viscosity does not translate into protection. Film strength provides the protection from shearing but there is no film strength indicator. Viscosity just means the fluids resistances to flow which is another meaning for being thick or thin. A lower viscosity number does not always mean lower protection.
*
Liqui Moly's API certification screencapture:
Attached Image
https://engineoil.api.org/Directory/EolcsRe...anyName%3Dliqui
Liqui Moly replies to my query(in email dialog form):
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


AMSOIL FAQ on API licensing:
http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible_amsoilFAQ.html

research paper on moly/MOS2
http://www.pecj.or.jp/japanese/report/e-report/00E115e.pdf


Some of Quazacolt's (current TS) reviews that covers extended oil change intervals:
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=63666846
Iswara that's practicing extended OCI: http://twitpic.com/doro53
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=65204477
It's currently >70k km and running on Motul H-tech 100 plus xw30 smile.gif

Why should one do UOA? watch the sample/real life experience video
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

in this video, it shows early detection of coolant leak (head gasket) before the situation gets serious.
also note that it was mentioned that there was no visible symptoms in the oil (frothing and what not due to coolant mixing with engine oil)
The only way to know, and prevent a hefty engine repair bill, is a UOA smile.gif

additional info for uoa:
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2016/06/10...m-oil-analysis/



What are acceptable wear levels from UOA samples?
Generally, anything under 100ppm, for references:
http://www.boucherandjones.com/lubeservices.htm
http://www.ppmoiltesting.com/eval1.html

Quazacolt's UOA (used oil analysis) samples:


engine
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Transmission
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


https://plus.google.com/u/0/+JasonLimQuazac...sts/bhQZhvzXheC
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=72742217
latest related post: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=92734166

https://plus.google.com/+JasonLimQuazacolt/posts/hm8NizaeCB7
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=69700867



Other members UOA sample:
alcyon
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



from a friend within GT86 BRZ group Malaysia
Mercedes A45 AMG on Petronas Syntium 7000
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

related post: https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=92714301



VOA Samples:
Courtesy of forumer mayalab
Mobil 1 Extended performance 5w30
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Mobil 1 Advance 0w40
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «



report explanation http://www.blackstone-labs.com/report-explanation.php


Synthetic or mineral/conventional oil?
https://gallery.mailchimp.com/f641390cba421...uly_2016.01.pdf
you'd be surprised at the results! brows.gif


Engine Oil Additives
Here's BSL (Amanda) take on EO additives:
QUOTE
Some additives do not show up in our tests. For example, we don't test for tungsten as part of our normal test, so we might not see that additive in our sample.

We don't normally see any real benefit to running additives, but we don't really see any problems from it either, at least not in our tests.

I'm not sure what the additive companies use as their base stock because we're not able to test the base stock in our lab.

Our general theory on additives is that the oil already has additives present, so there's not really any benefit to adding more stuff when the oil is already formulated very carefully. But then again, we haven't seen any evidence that they hurt anything, so if you like them, then by all means, keep using them! Maybe once you see your oil analysis results, you'll start to experiment by using additives sometimes and not other times, just to see how the engine does with and without them.
Original question from me:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


something to read on in regards to WS2 additives:
pdf click
It's a research/testing done by Millitary.



to those interested to know about long OCI:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbth...opics/1064407/1

some comments from an engine engineer on a mazda forum:
QUOTE
Boy; a lot of opinions and mis-information here. I am an engine engineer from Detroit with about 30 years of experience, so let me list a few truths:

1. An oil filter will never actually fill-up with contaminants, dirt, etc. unless someone sabotages your engine. There is a lot of capacity in a typical filter cartridge and engines don't really generate that much filterable soot and dirt. Most of the soot is too small to be filtered by anything but a special bypass filter. The real reason we change filters, is that the paper and glue that holds the insides together will not last forever; years, but not forever, and also to get that old oil out of the filter. Use a good quality filter that has a very high efficiency rating in the ASTM spec test. I like the Pure-1 or Bosch filters.
2. Really hard street driving is still a walk-in-the-park compared to the manufacturers standard General Durability tests, where the engine is cycled continuously between peak power and peak torque for hundreds of hours. One exception would be road-racing if you don't have a good oil-cooler and you let the oil temp get above 250F. The real severe-duty as far as oil is concerned is lots of idling and short trips. When you idle, your combustion quality is poorest, so you have extra fuel-dilution. Also in extended idling, your oil temperature rarely get above 150F which is what is needed to drive off fuel and water vapor from the oil.
Whenever an engine is running, blowby gasses get past the rings and enter the crankcase where it mixes with the oil. These blowby gasses are exhaust gas, which means it contains a lot of water vapor which when it hits the cold crankcase, condenses into liquid water. The faster you can warm-up your engine (by driving not idling), the sooner you can start to boil-off the water (and fuel) in your crankcase.
3. The main reason why oil turns dark is that the hottest spots in the engine (top of cylinder liners, pistons, exhaust side of head, etc.) slowly "cook" the oil through oxidation. Think of putting cooking oil in a fry pan and overheating it, it will darken. There are other chemical processes that degrade the oil as it mixes with Nitric Oxides in the crankcase. In GDI engines there is also a bit of soot from combustion that gets picked-up by the oil and suspended in solution by the detergents. The soot particles are typically in the sub-micron size, so they just pass-through the filter and are also small enough to not hurt the bearings and other wear surfaces in the engine. Synthetic oil has a lot higher temperature resistance than conventional mineral oils and so it cooks more slowly.
4. The net effect of oil dilution by water and fuel, effects of time at high temperature, and other chemical reactions in the crankcase, mean that eventually the oil will get out-of spec regarding its viscosity and its ability to keep the inside of the engine clean; as the detergent, anti-corrosion, anti-sludge, and anti-foam additive packages wear-out. The quality or age of the oil filter can't change this. If you just follow the manufacturers recommended change interval (or the maintenance computer) you should be on the safe and conservative side.

Dave
source:
http://mazda3revolution.com/forums/2014-20...tml#post1413082



Brake Fluid
Comparison of Motul's DOT 4 and DOT 5.1 products:

5.1
https://www.motul.com/system/product_descri....pdf?1335380510
Viscosity at -40°C (-40°F) 820 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) 2.1 mm²/s

RBF600 (dot 4)
https://www.motul.com/system/product_descri....pdf?1340122148
Viscosity at -40°C (-40°F) 1750 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) 2.5 mm²/s

RBF660 (dot 4)
https://www.motul.com/system/product_descri....pdf?1340124817
Viscosity at -40 °C (-40 °F) 1698 mm²/s
Viscosity at 100 °C (212 °F) 2.59 mm²/s

just to make sure everyone is on the same page, similarly with engine oil, it is easier to push thinner liquid, than thicker liquid.
for references pertaining viscosity:
http://www.dixcel.co.jp/en/subcontent/lite...terature02.html

http://www.viscopedia.com/viscosity-tables...ve-brake-fluid/




Specific Car information
Myvi
EO recommended: API SJ and above 5w30
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hi4gni9fsrg90te/Myvi%20LB%20Specification%20List.pdf?dl=0 dropbox link no longer valid (feel free to contribute new link/service manual pdf etc)

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Sep 6 2021, 01:42 AM
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 5 2014, 12:27 PM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
4,415 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 5 2014, 12:26 PM)
OK pinned.
*
Thank you very much thumbup.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 5 2014, 12:28 PM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
4,415 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


QUOTE(goldfries @ Aug 5 2014, 12:27 PM)
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1438525 <=-- do include the link to V1 in your 1st post. biggrin.gif
*
oops missed out; done!

=edit=
everyone else please let me know if i am missing out anything else, or if you'd like to suggest something be pinned on the first page smile.gif

This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 5 2014, 03:27 PM
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 5 2014, 08:00 PM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
4,415 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


QUOTE(kennywee92 @ Aug 5 2014, 07:45 PM)
Great work there TS! thumbup.gif
*
thanks for the kind words bro, glad that people can benefit from it nod.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 5 2014, 08:59 PM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
4,415 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


QUOTE(empire23 @ Aug 5 2014, 08:14 PM)
I like the fact that this new threat is more geared towards fluids and lubricants in general. There are a lot of fluids that make a car tick and EO is just one of them and thus having a decent pinned thread to discuss them is definitely a good thing.
*
glad you agree to it too thumbup.gif

a bit far fetched, but if Malaysians can be more educated on this matter, maybe we can get a demand on UOA, and local labs could lower their pricing!

i find it saddening when the cost to perform UOA here is more expensive than me sending over to USA even with FOREX + heavy postage rates (the postage fee is more expensive than converted uoa fee rofl) combined together.
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 5 2014, 10:34 PM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
4,415 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


QUOTE(izso @ Aug 5 2014, 09:56 PM)
Fatality : Pennzoil is a cheap and cheerful oil. Not designed for motorsports but quite good for daily consumption since it's cheap and OEM for Toyota.

And I got my Eneos Touring expensive cuz bought from... Eneos. My mistake really. LOL.. and 95 is cheap!

kalvinkhoo : 5W30 and 10W30 no difference except cold start viscosity. And in Malaysia 5 or 10 doesn't make a difference. In a winter country this would matter.
*
help you link tongue.gif

[Fatalit[Y]] kalvinkhoo
hmm not even sure if it works with his brackets lol

anyways for your future reference:
CODE
[@[F]atalit[Y]] [@kalvinkhoo]


now on pennzoil:




they say same wo tongue.gif

ANNNNDDDDD it's available at tesco at a bargain:
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=69341868
pennzoil/shell partnership btw wink.gif

i'd get it in a heartbeat if it's 0w20 lol
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 6 2014, 10:52 AM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
4,415 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


QUOTE(kalvinkhoo @ Aug 6 2014, 09:53 AM)
oh so the number in-front actually is for the temperature? hmmmm... noob in old i hope u dont mind me asking.
*
read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil#Grades
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 7 2014, 06:08 PM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
4,415 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


QUOTE(empire23 @ Aug 7 2014, 01:02 PM)
I've got 4 cans of 300V on the way to service my Evo and a bottle of Penrite 10Tenths for flush with Liquimoly flushing fluid. Only because I've neglected to service the car for a bit due to being onsite and my housemates driving it around for a bit.

Also doing the 1500km break in service for my BMW. But this time with strong fluid that resists crankcase dilution because the N54 and N55 are very famous engines for utterly destroying even the toughest engine oils due to the ultra high pressure direct injection it uses. This might be a tough one to figure out.
*
what are you planning for the BMW? considering "1500km break in service", new car? the dealer don't restrict outside EO?
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 7 2014, 08:56 PM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
4,415 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


QUOTE(empire23 @ Aug 7 2014, 06:33 PM)
BMW M cars come with requirement for a 1500/1600km oil and filter change. They call it the "break in" service.

BMW does recommend Castrol, but I can use any oil I want them to put in as long as it meets requirements. But the challenges of a direct injection engine are unique due to fuel dilution causing viscosity loss. There are a lot of recommendations for Renewable Lube's BioSyn made for the Audi RS4 engine (another DI engine), but I rather not ship 20 litres of lube on freight.

Also reading the N55HP's technical documentation also shows that under low loading, the Bosch ECU allows the engine oil temp to rise to about 130 Celsius in order to thin itself and lower parasitic drag, plus it also engages lean burn which also increases the cylinder temperature. It saves fuel, but remember that for every 5 to 10 celsius, your oil oxidization increases by 100 percent.

I'm not sure what to consider that is locally available. Might have to switch to Shell V-Power which has lubricity modifiers in the time being while thinking about it.
*
ah that's quite similar to almost every car brands in Malaysia although ours on 1k km instead.

I wish the same can be said about the bolded part in Malaysia. Dealers here are just wanting excuses to void your warranty sad.gif

wow nice technical details on the N55HP; I *think* the 4B1x engages similar operation considering the AFR from dyno charts. Not to mention the engine idles really hot and if you're speeding (could be just more ram air to cool the engine compartment) it cools down quite a bit more. Not sure on the oil temps since i haven't gotten my OBD scanners and i don't think on stock there's oil temperature sensors. (will have to verify on this at a later date)

btw if you're looking for lubricity modifiers, have you tried out Torco's RCL? that could be just what you're looking for, at probably much cheaper price comparing to v power daily.
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 8 2014, 09:25 AM

Riding couple
*******
Senior Member
4,415 posts

Joined: Jan 2007
From: KL Malaysia


QUOTE(empire23 @ Aug 8 2014, 08:05 AM)
The 4B11 is generally a bit hot, you'll generally see a rise in temps after you slow down after a long run. I don't believe the engine runs lean as the 4B11s are notorious for running overly rich to keep the cylinders cool. That's why you tend to get a lot of extra performance if you try and tune them with the "advance and lean till knock" method. I don't recall an oil pressure and temp sensor on the 4B11, so you might have to drill and tap your own.

I think chucking in Torco's RCL which is oil soluble will compound my issues further, plus I believe it is for a MPFI engine rather than GDI. I think the best solution is either to get a fuel like V-Power that resists being absorbed into the oil or an oil that resists absorption. I'd prefer the oil solution, because I'm so cheap I usually fill the car up with RON91 Ethanol blend if I don't plan on going fast
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oh ya now that you mentioned that, on stock form it does run as rich as 11.x ish on the AFR upon high rpm/high load laugh.gif

good point on the RCL, probably something i should take note if i am moving on to GDI in the future thumbup.gif

btw:
user posted image
or https://plus.google.com/+JasonLimQuazacolt/posts/hm8NizaeCB7 if you're having difficulty viewing from my website

will write more but first gotta goto office

=edit=
may check out http://www.blackstone-labs.com/report-explanation.php for explanations on the report

Anyways regarding the comments about fuel, because they encourage the oil sample to be taken hot (eg: driving the car for 10-20minutes/up to temperature) to avoid fuel dilutions that may affect the test results.
If that cannot be done and a cold sample have to be taken (eg: oil change at proton SC that lets you sit from morning 8am to 12pm sweat.gif) then it should be mentioned to BSL so that they may take note of the potentially higher fuel % found in the oil sample instead of pointing it out as an issue.

for my case as it turns out to be a non issue as fuel was less than 0.5% biggrin.gif

As for the metal parts, sure, it's nothing unusual as per the report comments, however i did spent quite a lot on additives (namely LM Ceratec and nanoextreme ws2) expecting that wear would be on the absolute minimum considering the claims of respective additives.
This lab report either proves me wrong or i'm just expecting way too much laugh.gif
Granted yes, sub 10k km is still a very early stage of an engine's life and there are still some breaking in of components, however looking at the universal average on metal wear it's just disappointing.

AMSOIL clearly proven it's claim, 6.6TBN after 8500 km of very hard driving, constant red lines when some engine oil even STARTS OUT with around 6 TBN (even torco SR1 that's also APN SN/GF5 certified: http://www.torcousa.com/technology/TDS_SR-1%20MotorOil.pdf )
Their 25k Miles claim does ring some truth in it wink.gif

Hell, look at the calcium value, that's generally detergent/dispersant commonly used in EO additives.
Most EO (unless you're on diesel/HDEO) don't even start out that high much less a 8500km used EO thumbup.gif

Viscosity is ROCK SOLID, hell it's even thicker than it's original datasheet: http://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf considering contaminants and fuel dillution that generally thins out EO viscosity when subjected to heat (likewise thicker on cold, hence morning/cold start sluggish performance on some vehicles on certain engine oils wink.gif )

i do suspect it could be a case of diluted additives into the oil, but who knows. (the nano ceramic particles are quite viscous, not sure if the viscosity test took that into account)

Now for this interesting bit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manganese#Manganese_in_gasoline
i'm wondering if it's due to the use of RCL, Octane boosters (used amsoil dominators and torco's accelerator) or it comes as a natural additive in our Petronas Primax fuel.

Hell, it could even be the Techron additive i used previously although http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbth...t&Number=273248 & http://www.techron.com/what-is-techron/proven-science.aspx doesn't seem to indicate so.

i'll stop on those car "drugs" for the time being (never used any after my service/oil drain) and see how it turns out on next lab test wink.gif

Also, here's BSL (Amanda) take on EO additives:
QUOTE
Some additives do not show up in our tests. For example, we don't test for tungsten as part of our normal test, so we might not see that additive in our sample.

We don't normally see any real benefit to running additives, but we don't really see any problems from it either, at least not in our tests.

I'm not sure what the additive companies use as their base stock because we're not able to test the base stock in our lab.

Our general theory on additives is that the oil already has additives present, so there's not really any benefit to adding more stuff when the oil is already formulated very carefully. But then again, we haven't seen any evidence that they hurt anything, so if you like them, then by all means, keep using them! Maybe once you see your oil analysis results, you'll start to experiment by using additives sometimes and not other times, just to see how the engine does with and without them.
Original question from me:
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This post has been edited by Quazacolt: Aug 8 2014, 03:07 PM
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 8 2014, 07:22 PM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Aug 8 2014, 07:14 PM)
I usually don't use any additives and unless there is a specific needs for them or a technical reason behind them. For now the only thing I plan on using is concentrated spray intake cleaner for my BMW and only because it is a GDI engine. I agree with BSL's assessment that the EO is already formulated for to meet its product target.

As for the Evo X I've bought some intake cleaner for it as the EGR and PCV system would have slightly dirtied the turbocharger and intake manifolds after 70000km so I thought why the hell not. Also got a can of LiquiMoly Detox, the industrial strength and more potent version of the standard 300ml LiquiMoly Engine Flush.

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Probably just mineral turps but it's concentrated and comes in a huge 500ml bottle, so I figured "why not?" laugh.gif
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oo never came across with that... do feedback after you've tried it tongue.gif
although, since your bmw is fairly new, i suppose you wont be using it any time soon?

btw that table yours? interesting looking shells - hunting or shooting range?
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 8 2014, 07:36 PM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Aug 8 2014, 07:33 PM)
Don't think I'll be using it on the BMW soon. Just the Evo X and maybe the R34 once I undo the damaged those car thieves did to it before the police recovered it. Going to change the tyres as well on the X to Goodyear Eagle F1 Directionals. No need anything really sticky, the car has been relegated to supermarket duties.

Yeah the table is mine. Loading my magazines as I have a shooting competition on Sunday.
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eh you've mentioned the recovery of the R34 very long time ago (over a year already or not?) still working on the repairs?
and rofl Evo X for supermarket duties laugh.gif

notworthy.gif on those bullets.
good luck on your competition thumbup.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 8 2014, 07:54 PM

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QUOTE(empire23 @ Aug 8 2014, 07:44 PM)
Yeah. Still working on the repairs because the car is quite low on my priority list and is now sitting in storage. I am worried about the wear and what oils I should use. I might just buy an engine crane and rebuild it by hand. Engine building is surprisingly simple when I leaned it working at my previous job.

Fastest supermarket car ever! Danish made Intrax Suspension with SuperPro bushes, DBA 5k rotors, Full Race manifold, Tomei exhaust, Cosworth IC and Intake kit and larger MHI Turbo.

Worst of all is my parents plan to stay here for a year. I plan to just give them the X because it is the only "auto" I have tongue.gif
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do update/new thread on your engine rebuilding if it ever happens biggrin.gif

and words cannot describe all my jelly notworthy.gif
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 10 2014, 02:34 AM

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QUOTE(Klemann C @ Aug 10 2014, 02:24 AM)
In dilemma whether should try 5w-50 since my car current EO is due...using 0w-40

Is it advisable switch from 0w-40 > 5w-50?
Both are Mobil oil..
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What's your dilemma?
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 10 2014, 05:36 AM

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QUOTE(Klemann C @ Aug 10 2014, 02:46 AM)
All the while been using 10w40, 0w40 since I'd got my car.
Engine feedback respond is quite positive since my car engine is 4G93..as you know this engine valve lifter prone to noisy & loud due to different EO grade used.
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so you got too much performance/good FC and want to lower that by going for thicker EO?
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 10 2014, 07:26 PM

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QUOTE(ZeroSP @ Aug 10 2014, 11:18 AM)
So a TBN of 7.8 is low? But too many factors to consider as I read through all those technicals.
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well API SN specified within 6.1-8
so 7.8 is just right.

also depends on how you drive as well and what OCI you're practicing.

QUOTE(Klemann C @ Aug 10 2014, 02:38 PM)
My usual workshop mechanic reckon should try w-50 for better
top end & can reduced lifter noise..not sure about fc part might be worsen or better...
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try different brand/model of lubes, not thicker viscosity.
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 11 2014, 10:34 PM

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QUOTE(WinterAngeLs @ Aug 11 2014, 03:22 PM)
Thanks for the interesting info  thumbup.gif

Btw, i came across these 2 today.

Seems cheap. whats the normal price btw?
Any owners have any feedback using them on a 4B11 and 1NZ-FE? which is the better of the 2?
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no comments on the 1NZ-FE engine as i'm not worthy.
for 4B1x, i'd prefer to go xw20 strictly.

however if you're ok on xw40, consider this instead thanks to nzh0920
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...post&p=69341868

ori price is rm230-240ish.

That's the last natural gas pureplus base stock collaborated with Pennzoil.
TSQuazacolt
post Aug 11 2014, 10:35 PM

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QUOTE(phobian @ Aug 11 2014, 09:37 PM)
300v 15w50 for your 4B11T?

For a good 60k kms, I was happy with TorqNM's VM155 15w50 until my friend decided to close his business. Currently running on Synergie 6100 15w50 and not really happy with it.
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he ran with xw20 on regular roads and xw30 for hard tracking usage iinm

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