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 LYN Christian Fellowship V7 (Group), Bible Hope never disappoints!

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TSunknown warrior
post Apr 18 2014, 03:07 PM, updated 12y ago

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Welcome to V7, Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ.

To the One who deserve all Glory and Honour, the reason why we are Here, Our Lord Christ Jesus

Hebrews 1: 8-9

8 But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.

9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”




It is a commandment to meetup regularly, So if you're someone where Church is not easily accessible, This can be your temporary hang out place, so that you are not totally detached and lost touch with Christian community.

QUOTE
Hebrews 10:24-25
And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.



We are here to fellowship with one another, strengthen our Faith in the Lord. It is hard to grow in the Lord, alone in solitude. God intends for us to be in relationship with each other and our fellowship thread provide a place for you to grow in your relationship with Him and with other people of the same faith.

FAQ

QUOTE(SaberCortez @ Dec 10 2012, 11:28 AM)
Nah.. why always got this kind of religious thread one.. I tot lowyat don't allow? just saying..
*
QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Dec 10 2012, 11:32 AM)
there's one for buddhist (created by Joe Mamak) and islam (created by blademaster) in /k/

it's a fellowship thread for believers of the said faith and is allowed for many years already.

what is not allowed is anything outside of these 3 fellowship threads in /k/ because as usual, it causes arguments.
*
Few simple RULES to follow in our fellowship thread.

1. No flaming/troll post please. Lets keep this fellowship thread clean and encouraging, as it's purpose is more for believers of Christ.
2. Do not argue about other religions please. People of other Faith are welcome to ask and enquire genuine questions or out of curiosity about Christianity.
3. What's discussed in here, stays in here.

Previous Thread V6
https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?act=ST&f...&t=2621686&st=0


Previous Thread V5
http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1758395

Good links to share:
http://www.opensong.org/

Opensong!!! It uses your WinXP's extended screen on the projector. So you have your controls in your laptop, and the screen on the projector. It also supports Chinese, and has songs packs and bible verses too, so you can project those verses on screen.

http://www.guitar4christ.com
http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/
a database of chords and lyrics for christian songs.

GodTV

http://www.god.tv/



Online Bibles!
English Bible (with multi lingual): http://www.biblegateway.com/

Indonesian/Malay Bible: http://alkitab.otak.info/

Arabic Bible: http://www.arabicbible.com/bible/doc_bible.htm


Dear Christians, please do let us know about u, like denominations, which church u r from and where is ur church located. Oh, beside that, do let us know what position are u holding in ur church, as in.. hmm pianist ? choral singer ? or even Pastor. tongue.gif

LYN Christ Followers List:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


(Please type in this template [so its easier for me to edit the list]: Username - Denomination | Church | Area Serve-in)
Either PM me or post to notify. But if after u've posted in this thread and I havent add u in the list, please PM me to notify me. Thanks. smile.gif

Christian Bookshops:
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Sep 25 2014, 01:14 PM
earlgrey77
post Apr 18 2014, 03:14 PM

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i dint know there is such tread , i am glad and thankful to see one . smile.gif

Just want to invite fellow Christians to a musical at my church and Happy Good Friday .

https://www.facebook.com/events/345099652298070/

bring your friends along and admission is free rclxms.gif

This post has been edited by earlgrey77: Apr 18 2014, 03:15 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 18 2014, 03:15 PM

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skydrakeSophierapehkayDe_LuffyTankerGadget Store

TSunknown warrior
post Apr 18 2014, 03:16 PM

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DeadlocksBruskyTerence573jack~danielZ1000

TSunknown warrior
post Apr 18 2014, 03:16 PM

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meistsh_musicalOlgaC4Jediprophetjul

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 18 2014, 03:25 PM
coo|dude
post Apr 18 2014, 03:16 PM

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Is there a whatsapp group for this? I would love to receive good news every now and then from this group.
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 18 2014, 03:17 PM

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QUOTE(earlgrey77 @ Apr 18 2014, 03:14 PM)
i dint know there is such tread , i am glad and thankful to see one . smile.gif

Just want to invite fellow Christians to a musical at my church and Happy Good Friday  .

https://www.facebook.com/events/345099652298070/

bring your friends along and admission is free  rclxms.gif
*
Welcome Brother.
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 18 2014, 03:19 PM

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QUOTE(coo|dude @ Apr 18 2014, 03:16 PM)
Is there a whatsapp group for this? I would love to receive good news every now and then from this group.
*
er.....don't have wor, only here. Sorry. icon_rolleyes.gif
Brusky
post Apr 18 2014, 03:22 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 18 2014, 03:19 PM)
er.....don't have wor, only here. Sorry.  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
Time to have one? congratulation for version no 7.
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 18 2014, 03:26 PM

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QUOTE(Brusky @ Apr 18 2014, 03:22 PM)
Time to have one? congratulation for version no 7.
*
hoo yeah. thumbup.gif We're still going on strong by the grace of God.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 18 2014, 03:34 PM
De_Luffy
post Apr 18 2014, 03:27 PM

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unknown warrior thanks for the reminder,

before i forget, i would like to highlight to you guys that canaanland damansara perdana and menara TA is no longer in operation as from this year

for more info please check their website for more detail
http://www.canaanland.com.my/index.php?opt...&id=6&Itemid=12
freestyler87
post Apr 18 2014, 03:29 PM

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any one from GTPJ?
De_Luffy
post Apr 18 2014, 03:30 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 18 2014, 03:19 PM)
er.....don't have wor, only here. Sorry.  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
to have a whatsapp group we need the members mobile number which is private, alternative there 1 platform which we can create a group either via line or WEchat
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 18 2014, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Apr 18 2014, 03:27 PM)
unknown warrior thanks for the reminder,

before i forget, i would like to highlight to you guys that canaanland damansara perdana and menara TA is no longer in operation as from this year

for more info please check their website for more detail
http://www.canaanland.com.my/index.php?opt...&id=6&Itemid=12
*
thanks, updated.
OlgaC4
post Apr 18 2014, 03:49 PM

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Today is the greatest ambush in history. Saitan kena ambush.
OlgaC4
post Apr 18 2014, 03:50 PM

Look at all my stars!!
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QUOTE(freestyler87 @ Apr 18 2014, 03:29 PM)
any one from GTPJ?
*
Me
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 18 2014, 03:55 PM

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QUOTE(OlgaC4 @ Apr 18 2014, 03:49 PM)
Today is the greatest ambush in history. Saitan kena ambush.
*
wat? biggrin.gif
SUSmeistsh_musical
post Apr 18 2014, 05:27 PM

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may the god bless karpal singh

amen
Sophiera
post Apr 18 2014, 06:39 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 18 2014, 03:55 PM)
wat?  biggrin.gif
*
Good Friday is the day Satan kalah also

Oh congrats on new thread!
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 18 2014, 07:05 PM

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QUOTE(meistsh_musical @ Apr 18 2014, 05:27 PM)
may the god bless karpal singh

amen
*
Amen.

QUOTE(Sophiera @ Apr 18 2014, 06:39 PM)
Good Friday is the day Satan kalah also

Oh congrats on new thread!
*
My respect to you. thumbup.gif

You know.
AlwinKaiEn
post Apr 18 2014, 10:42 PM

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QUOTE
U in Penang now?
unknown warrior
Yes, I am in Penang now, Bayan Lepas area
feekle
post Apr 18 2014, 10:43 PM

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Blessed good friday to all
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 18 2014, 11:27 PM

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Good Friday 18/04/2014

user posted image

Matthew 7:8 - For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

This is the promise of God the Father. That anyone who ask, shall receive, the one who seeks, will find and the one who knocks, the door will be open.
God does not by pass anyone. He says everyone who asks...

It's an invitation to know Him.

He made the way possible through his Son Jesus Christ.

Ever since the beginning of time, When Man was separated from God, we had to deal with
repercussion of whatever action we need to undertake.

The Law of physics dictate that there's cause and effect. A Man reaps what He sow.

We have been accumulating so much sin, we are spiritually corrupted inside.

That is why we do the things we do.

My experience tells me, it's so much easier to do evil than to struggle to maintain being good.

Here now lies an invitation on Good Friday, where Jesus Christ was brutally tortured by the Romans Solder by the way of crucifixion to pay off your debt sins. His blood and sacrifice, the punishment He went through was justified to save the whole world. God the Father accepted his perfect sacrifice on your behalf, so that you are justified and can now come to God.

And God made it by the way of Faith, your faith, God says will be accounted as Righteousness.

This Good Friday is an open invitation to anyone who is willing to believe.

His body was broken, so that yours can be made whole.

God Bless and Blessed Good Friday.




TankerGadget Store
post Apr 19 2014, 01:24 AM

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yeah v7 !! on good friday !! yeap we should have a whatapp group so we can share testimony and also encouraging each other !
TankerGadget Store
post Apr 19 2014, 01:25 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 18 2014, 11:27 PM)
Good Friday 18/04/2014

user posted image

Matthew 7:8 - For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.

This is the promise of God the Father. That anyone who ask, shall receive, the one who seeks, will find and the one who knocks, the door will be open.
God does not by pass anyone. He says everyone who asks...

It's an invitation to know Him.

He made the way possible through his Son Jesus Christ.

Ever since the beginning of time, When Man was separated from God, we had to deal with
repercussion of whatever action  we need to undertake.

The Law of physics dictate that there's cause and effect. A Man reaps what He sow.

We have been accumulating so much sin, we are spiritually corrupted inside.

That is why we do the things we do.

My experience tells me, it's so much easier to do evil than to struggle to maintain being good.

Here now lies an invitation on Good Friday, where Jesus Christ was brutally tortured by the Romans Solder by the way of crucifixion to pay off your debt sins. His blood and sacrifice, the punishment He went through was justified to save the whole world. God the Father accepted his perfect sacrifice on your behalf, so that you are justified and can now come to God.

And God made it by the way of Faith, your faith, God says will be accounted as Righteousness.

This Good Friday is an open invitation to anyone who is willing to believe.

His body was broken, so that yours can be made whole.

God Bless and Blessed Good Friday.
*
amen ! i went to church today at 8pm and thanks for tagging me to v7 !
TankerGadget Store
post Apr 19 2014, 01:26 AM

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pls pray for me ... april 28,29 and may 2nd got my final exam for second sem in MIB ...

This post has been edited by TankerGadget Store: Apr 19 2014, 01:29 AM
Buriburi San
post Apr 19 2014, 01:48 AM

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Hi, I'm new here. I would like to wish a blessed Good Friday to you all!
Let's together attend all the mass held at church during this holy week ya icon_rolleyes.gif
jd low
post Apr 19 2014, 01:53 AM

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im a Cristian ,but i seldom go to church ,looking forward to join ,my location cheras
Buriburi San
post Apr 19 2014, 02:00 AM

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QUOTE(jd low @ Apr 19 2014, 01:53 AM)
im a Cristian ,but i seldom go to church ,looking forward to join ,my location cheras
*
Wish you will found someone to go with.
If not, just go by urself then, whom know you will make some new fren at the church smile.gif
Owh, and you can always invite your Christian buddy wink.gif
fatedquest
post Apr 19 2014, 09:32 AM

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I just moved to PJ, can anyone recommend me a church?
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 19 2014, 09:38 AM

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QUOTE(fatedquest @ Apr 19 2014, 09:32 AM)
I just moved to PJ, can anyone recommend me a church?
*
There's Glads Tiding and DUMC

http://gladtidings.my/

http://dumc.my/

2 of the bigger Church in PJ
Sophiera
post Apr 19 2014, 06:12 PM

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UW One of your links is broken, the first one.

"God is not a figment of your imagination, He is historically recorded and witnessed first hand."

I clicked on it before. Sad it's gone now sad.gif
SUSDeadlocks
post Apr 19 2014, 07:11 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 16 2014, 12:54 AM)
Jesus called Satan as the Father of lies. (John 8:44)

And....I recognize this form of deception, it's call the ministry of condemnation. (2 Corinthians 3:9)

So this tactic of condemnation only works against Christians who don't know they are no longer under the bondage of the Laws of God.

But for Believers who recognize that they are under the covenant of Grace, Satan has no power. (Romans 6:14)

Because Salvation, Righteousness and redemption is a free gift from God. (Romans 3:22-24)

My righteousness is given to me as a gift, it is not something that I do. (Romans 11:6)

Even by what I do, cannot reverse God's gift to me (Romans 11:29 - for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable.)

And believers today NEED to know that Satan has been defeated at the cross and disarmed of all his powers. (Colossians 2:15)
That is why, he needs to resort to lie and deception.

And God has given us a provision in his word, to protect us;

Romans 5:20 - The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase. But where sin increased, grace increased all the more,

+
God is the one who justify and is on our side, Satan has no say.

Romans 8:33 - 33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies;

Romans:8:31 . 31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?
Check Mate.
*
To all readers:

Please note that this is merely a dramatic role-play of a dialogue between Unknown warrior and the devil.

the devil:

*Mutters in defeat*

You get to win this round, Unknwon Warrior. But like most warriors I have tempted for the past centuries, they fall easily to the sin of PRIDE.

And so I shall send my servants to tempt you to be boastful and prideful. You shall win many battles, but you are going to have a hard time being humble. SO go ahead and win more battles...I will make sure you will fill your head and heart with pride. Let's see who'll win.

Be prepared, mortal.

This post has been edited by Deadlocks: Apr 19 2014, 07:13 PM
fatedquest
post Apr 19 2014, 07:43 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 19 2014, 09:38 AM)
There's Glads Tiding and DUMC

http://gladtidings.my/

http://dumc.my/

2 of the bigger Church in PJ
*
I'm a little shy and I haven't really been going to church. Is a big church or a small church better?
earlgrey77
post Apr 19 2014, 11:48 PM

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i bought my family to church today for my church musical . Hopefully they can be more open to Christ one day
(my siblings still young )
I am happy so just wanna share , hope you guys dont mind praying for them as well smile.gif


Thanks and bless all of you! biggrin.gif
coo|dude
post Apr 19 2014, 11:54 PM

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If anyone is going to open and administer the Whatsapp group, please count me in for it. Thanks.
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 20 2014, 12:20 AM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Apr 19 2014, 06:12 PM)
UW One of your links is broken, the first one.

"God is not a figment of your imagination, He is historically recorded and witnessed first hand."

I clicked on it before. Sad it's gone now sad.gif
*
Got a new link now. brows.gif

And it's even better. brows.gif
cxjiek
post Apr 20 2014, 12:25 AM

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Anybody just entered the working world?
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 20 2014, 12:27 AM

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QUOTE(fatedquest @ Apr 19 2014, 07:43 PM)
I'm a little shy and I haven't really been going to church. Is a big church or a small church better?
*
Actually if you're the type who don't like drawing attention, Big Church.

If you need someone to be with and to foster some friendship, Small Church.

Actually IMO, they're both the same. If you reach out to the Ushers asking for help, I'm sure they'll put you in Home Fellowship or Cell Group where they'll fit you right in.
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 20 2014, 12:35 AM

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QUOTE(earlgrey77 @ Apr 19 2014, 11:48 PM)
i bought my family to church today for my church musical . Hopefully they can be more open to Christ one day
(my siblings still young )
I am happy so just wanna share , hope you guys dont mind praying for them as well smile.gif
Thanks and bless all of you!  biggrin.gif
*
It's God's will

1 Timothy 2:3-4 (KJV)
…For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


1 John 5:14 (KJV)
And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 20 2014, 12:37 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 20 2014, 12:35 AM

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QUOTE(cxjiek @ Apr 20 2014, 12:25 AM)
Anybody just entered the working world?
*
Need advise is it?
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 20 2014, 12:36 AM

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QUOTE(TankerGadget Store @ Apr 19 2014, 01:26 AM)
pls pray for me ... april 28,29 and may 2nd got my final exam for second sem in MIB ...
*
Okay. will pray for you.
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 20 2014, 12:39 AM

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QUOTE(Deadlocks @ Apr 19 2014, 07:11 PM)
To all readers:

Please note that this is merely a dramatic role-play of a dialogue between Unknown warrior and the devil.

the devil:

*Mutters in defeat*

You get to win this round, Unknwon Warrior. But like most warriors I have tempted for the past centuries, they fall easily to the sin of PRIDE.

And so I shall send my servants to tempt you to be boastful and prideful. You shall win many battles, but you are going to have a hard time being humble. SO go ahead and win more battles...I will make sure you will fill your head and heart with pride. Let's see who'll win.

Be prepared, mortal.
*
That's why I need God's divine strength everyday.

sweat.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 20 2014, 12:44 AM

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QUOTE(jd low @ Apr 19 2014, 01:53 AM)
im a Cristian ,but i seldom go to church ,looking forward to join ,my location cheras
*
Cheras is so big, which part?
TankerGadget Store
post Apr 20 2014, 01:45 AM

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QUOTE(jd low @ Apr 19 2014, 01:53 AM)
im a Cristian ,but i seldom go to church ,looking forward to join ,my location cheras
*
go to FGA near only rclxms.gif rclxms.gif
TankerGadget Store
post Apr 20 2014, 01:46 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 20 2014, 12:36 AM)
Okay. will pray for you.
*
thx UW again ...
nightzstar
post Apr 20 2014, 02:17 AM

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Count me in too for the whatsapp group
fatedquest
post Apr 20 2014, 05:21 PM

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QUOTE(nightzstar @ Apr 20 2014, 02:17 AM)
Count me in too for the whatsapp group
*
Me too. Thanks
Sophiera
post Apr 21 2014, 12:06 AM

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http://www.wikihow.com/Perform-Self-Hypnosis

UW is this actually a very dangerous thing to do spiritually? I have a feeling it is. Anything that involves emptying your mind outside the word of God is a no no
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 21 2014, 10:43 AM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Apr 21 2014, 12:06 AM)
http://www.wikihow.com/Perform-Self-Hypnosis

UW is this actually a very dangerous thing to do spiritually? I have a feeling it is. Anything that involves emptying your mind outside the word of God is a no no
*
Well, I don't know why would any Christian want to do that in the first place.

As a Spirit being with a soul, our spiritual food are the words of God.

Lack of it, causes us to be malnourished like a Man without physical food.

Emptying ourselves through self hypnosis is like discarding all the vitamins of God's spiritual truth.
Sophiera
post Apr 21 2014, 03:07 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 21 2014, 10:43 AM)
Well, I don't know why would any Christian want to do that in the first place.

As a Spirit being with a soul, our spiritual food are the words of God.

Lack of it, causes us to be malnourished like a Man without physical food.

Emptying ourselves through self hypnosis is like discarding all the vitamins of God's spiritual truth.
*
The person who gave me that link wasn't a Christian. He went on how good it feels but to me it's so dangerous.
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 21 2014, 03:12 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Apr 21 2014, 03:07 PM)
The person who gave me that link wasn't a Christian. He went on how good it feels but to me it's so dangerous.
*
Well of course, the world is like that. They don't know that there's a God who cares and is able to do so and thus need to find ways or means to solve own problem.
De_Luffy
post Apr 21 2014, 03:24 PM

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ok guys, anyone interested to join wechat/line/whatsapp group?

wechat/line maybe no need add number on your phone

whatsapp need to add mobile number to contact to add in group

TSunknown warrior
post Apr 21 2014, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Apr 21 2014, 03:24 PM)
ok guys, anyone interested to join wechat/line/whatsapp group?

wechat/line maybe no need add number on your phone

whatsapp need to add mobile number to contact to add in group
*
Someone have to take lead, personally I don't use watsapp.

you guys go ahead. biggrin.gif
coo|dude
post Apr 21 2014, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 21 2014, 03:58 PM)
Someone have to take lead, personally I don't use watsapp.

you guys go ahead.  biggrin.gif
*
unknown warrior, it should be you - you know the Good News better than anyone of us here.
s1nn3r
post Apr 21 2014, 04:05 PM

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life... i find it difficult... i find that working pressure is too great... i have pray for alternate way but GOD ask me to endure & persevere.

I want to be happy but work is dragging me down, I want to do things my way but GOD has other plan.

My life is not about me anymore... I feel so sad
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 21 2014, 04:20 PM

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QUOTE(coo|dude @ Apr 21 2014, 03:58 PM)
unknown warrior, it should be you - you know the Good News better than anyone of us here.
*
sweat.gif

Pehkay also knowledgeable.

pehkay

Pehkay bro, you use watsapp?


De_Luffy
post Apr 21 2014, 04:22 PM

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i can admin for you guys but i hardly post much, so who want to post daily stuffs?

TSunknown warrior
post Apr 21 2014, 04:24 PM

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QUOTE(s1nn3r @ Apr 21 2014, 04:05 PM)
life... i find it difficult... i find that working pressure is too great... i have pray for alternate way but GOD ask me to endure & persevere.

I want to be happy but work is dragging me down, I want to do things my way but GOD has other plan.

My life is not about me anymore... I feel so sad
*
Hang in there bro.

sweat.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 21 2014, 04:25 PM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Apr 21 2014, 04:22 PM)
i can admin for you guys but i hardly post much, so who want to post daily stuffs?
*
You can copy any material posted in our thread.
De_Luffy
post Apr 21 2014, 04:34 PM

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ok who interested to create this group just let me know, if less than 10 replies/demand for the group to be created i will just ignore this matter

u got time to consider till end of this month

This post has been edited by De_Luffy: Apr 21 2014, 04:34 PM
s1nn3r
post Apr 21 2014, 07:27 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 21 2014, 04:24 PM)
Hang in there bro.

sweat.gif
*
Thanks Brother... suffering is part of life... the more suffering, the more i find myself closer to GOD, i tend to forget GOD in good time, maybe this is HIS way to make me stay closer icon_rolleyes.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 21 2014, 07:41 PM

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QUOTE(s1nn3r @ Apr 21 2014, 07:27 PM)
Thanks Brother... suffering is part of life... the more suffering, the more i find myself closer to GOD, i tend to forget GOD in good time, maybe this is HIS way to make me stay closer  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
The Bible is quite clear on Trials of life and most of the time it has to do with either other people or yourself.

Other people means they are against you, sometime doesn't even make sense why.
When it has to do with yourself means usually in the area of pride, jealousy, etc.

When talk about suffering, God will never inflict things like diseases / sickness or even car accidents as part of testing.

We must be clear as what is allowed as trial/testing and what is considered an attack from the Devil.




SUSNormanFoster
post Apr 21 2014, 08:53 PM

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similar? blink.gif
SUSNormanFoster
post Apr 21 2014, 08:58 PM

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Matthew 26:39
New International Version (NIV)
39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”
Brusky
post Apr 21 2014, 09:01 PM

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QUOTE(s1nn3r @ Apr 21 2014, 07:27 PM)
Thanks Brother... suffering is part of life... the more suffering, the more i find myself closer to GOD, i tend to forget GOD in good time, maybe this is HIS way to make me stay closer  icon_rolleyes.gif
*
Been there before, had a miserably time at work and just follow the flow be patient dont do anything drastic til found a better job. Times like this best solace is go down on your knee and pray surely helps will come, slow but surely.
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 21 2014, 09:03 PM

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QUOTE(Brusky @ Apr 21 2014, 09:01 PM)
Been there before, had a miserably time at work and just follow the flow be patient dont do anything drastic til found a better job. Times like this best solace is go down on your knee and pray surely helps will come, slow but surely.
*
Always. biggrin.gif
Brusky
post Apr 21 2014, 09:12 PM

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TSunknown warrior
post Apr 21 2014, 09:25 PM

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QUOTE(Brusky @ Apr 21 2014, 09:12 PM)

*
Whoa Nice!

In Heaven, everybody is young. thumbup.gif



Here's another Christian movie, I think our local churches have yet to see.

http://www.graceunplugged.com/

user posted image
Brusky
post Apr 21 2014, 09:55 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 21 2014, 09:25 PM)
Whoa Nice!

In Heaven, everybody is young.  thumbup.gif
Here's another Christian movie, I think our local churches have yet to see.

http://www.graceunplugged.com/

user posted image
*
biggrin.gif Heaven, nice place to be around.

Still dig old epic like Ten Commandments, Samson and Delilah and Jesus Of Nazareth. mind blowing
Sophiera
post Apr 22 2014, 04:32 AM

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I feel rather awkward talking to Christians to be honest. Some sources regard this uneasiness as a sign of being a fake. I know that fellowship is supposed to be the nicest thing in the world, but most of the time it's either one of the two things:

1. Can't be around long enough to fit in.
2. Very bizarre character.

For most parts I feel really out of place.

I also find very elaborate praises to be rather irritating. I don't object to people saying stuff to God. It's just that when I read it on facebook or hear folks talk like that, I feel rather offput/intimidated/freaked.

This post has been edited by Sophiera: Apr 22 2014, 04:58 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 22 2014, 10:20 AM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Apr 22 2014, 04:32 AM)
I feel rather awkward talking to Christians to be honest. Some sources regard this uneasiness as a sign of being a fake. I know that fellowship is supposed to be the nicest thing in the world, but most of the time it's either one of the two things:

1. Can't be around long enough to fit in.
2. Very bizarre character.

For most parts I feel really out of place.

I also find very elaborate praises to be rather irritating. I don't object to people saying stuff to God. It's just that when I read it on facebook or hear folks talk like that, I feel rather offput/intimidated/freaked.
*
We are peculiar people as one pastor puts it.

We are all in the same boat. If truth is known, most of us feels out of place with one another because of the different spiritual maturity.

And the Bible has an antidote for that.

Best thing to do is, not to think negative of others.

Philippians 4:8 - Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.

Sophiera
post Apr 22 2014, 02:02 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 22 2014, 10:20 AM)
We are peculiar people as one pastor puts it.

We are all in the same boat. If truth is known, most of us feels out of place with one another because of the different spiritual maturity.

And the Bible has an antidote for that.

Best thing to do is, not to think negative of others.

Philippians 4:8 - Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
*
I always feel that they would be thinking bad about me behind their back. I'm sure some gaming friends do that too but we will always have something in common to talk about.

For Christians, ideally that should be about God and Spiritual life, but most of the time talking about religion turns into a nargumentive/defensive mode discussion.

Ony of my friend's childgood friend turned into a Pharisee. Everything also kutuk, everything also say we wrong. Someone meet a female colleage without any real dating relationship (just acquaintances). She accused him of adultery and told every friend of his that he's doing that.

Those people I'm really not keen to meet.

This post has been edited by Sophiera: Apr 22 2014, 02:12 PM
henry90x
post Apr 22 2014, 04:40 PM

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heyyyy any1 from melaka?? me looking for a.church.buddy.. sad.gif
fatedquest
post Apr 22 2014, 07:28 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Apr 22 2014, 02:02 PM)
I always feel that they would be thinking bad about me behind their back. I'm sure some gaming friends do that too but we will always have something in common to talk about.

For Christians, ideally that should be about God and Spiritual life, but most of the time talking about religion turns into a nargumentive/defensive mode discussion.

Ony of my friend's childgood friend turned into a Pharisee. Everything also kutuk, everything also say we wrong. Someone meet a female colleage without any real dating relationship (just acquaintances). She accused him of adultery and told every friend of his that he's doing that.

Those people I'm really not keen to meet.
*
That is why Jesus didn't argue with people. We are called to spread the Good News, but it is God that calls the people to him. Hence Jesus said that no one can go to the father except through Christ the Savior. He didn't say no one can go to God unless you win the argument.
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 22 2014, 07:48 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Apr 22 2014, 02:02 PM)
I always feel that they would be thinking bad about me behind their back. I'm sure some gaming friends do that too but we will always have something in common to talk about.

For Christians, ideally that should be about God and Spiritual life, but most of the time talking about religion turns into a nargumentive/defensive mode discussion.

Ony of my friend's childgood friend turned into a Pharisee. Everything also kutuk, everything also say we wrong. Someone meet a female colleage without any real dating relationship (just acquaintances). She accused him of adultery and told every friend of his that he's doing that.

Those people I'm really not keen to meet.
*
That is happens to Christian who look to the old Testament Law as measuring tape for righteousness.

The Law of God cannot bring righteousness to anyone.

It wasn't designed for that. Anyone who put themselves under the law of God will become very legalistic Christian and this isn't what Jesus want for the Church. The New Testament took so much effort to explain, the Law of God has been done with, it's obsolete. And yet we have Christian trying to go back to the Law again.

Even today I've seen preachers who preaches erroneous doctrine as indicated above, putting burden of guilt unto people, for example they'll say you must walk righteously before God (duh we are already righteous before God by Faith), Salvation is free but stress so much that it's costly (Duh If Salvation is free, it's free, we can't pay for it).


TSunknown warrior
post Apr 22 2014, 07:49 PM

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QUOTE(henry90x @ Apr 22 2014, 04:40 PM)
heyyyy any1 from melaka?? me looking for a.church.buddy.. sad.gif
*
I love Melaka but I'm in Klang Valley.

Hope this thread can be a buddy to you. smile.gif
SUSmeistsh_musical
post Apr 22 2014, 07:52 PM

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you can go famosa church at sunday...
henry90x
post Apr 22 2014, 10:10 PM

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nvr tot I will ever say this..I tink I need help spirtually..
such a cliche when tings are not right we tend to connect with god.. sad.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 22 2014, 10:56 PM

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QUOTE(henry90x @ Apr 22 2014, 10:10 PM)
nvr tot I will ever say this..I tink I need help spirtually.. 
such a cliche when tings are not right we tend to connect with god.. sad.gif
*
Tell me. Can PM if u want. smile.gif

Don't give up too soon.
henry90x
post Apr 22 2014, 11:11 PM

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things just not goin smoothly.. I seek blessing and courage frm god almost a million times. but its like god abandoned me... I kinda abandoned him too for years..but only afta he abandoned me...
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 22 2014, 11:52 PM

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QUOTE(henry90x @ Apr 22 2014, 11:11 PM)
things just not goin smoothly.. I seek blessing and courage frm god almost a million times. but its like god abandoned me... I kinda abandoned him too for years..but only afta he abandoned me...
*
What is it that you seek?


henry90x
post Apr 23 2014, 12:00 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 22 2014, 11:52 PM)
What is it that you seek?
*
Peace and direction in life..
Sophiera
post Apr 23 2014, 01:48 AM

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http://www.gotquestions.org/signs-saving-faith.html

I've not felt any spectacular change ever in my life. It makes it really hard to accept that it's really just faith alone. Why didn't I feel any different than before, like the ones that make a 180 turn or something
pehkay
post Apr 23 2014, 08:22 AM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Apr 23 2014, 01:48 AM)
http://www.gotquestions.org/signs-saving-faith.html

I've not felt any spectacular change ever in my life. It makes it really hard to accept that it's really just faith alone. Why didn't I feel any different than before, like the ones that make a 180 turn or something
*
Try not to be so subjective tongue.gif ... Initial salvation although marvellous and dynamic for some people, at least, most 2nd generation Christians like me, tend to have a "normal" salvation. I just have an inward, unspeakable peace within ... that's all. icon_rolleyes.gif

I have met with many 180 turn .... believers ... those are just outward changes (which is marvelous ... I am not putting it down) but that is just initial, superficial and outward.

They testified that they "envied" that I grow up in the church life with all the knowledge. Vice versa, we (2nd generation) envied their dynamic salvation. So .... all is fair. rclxm9.gif

The real growth in the divine life is THE REAL DEAL, which is after regeneration. These growth are slow and steady but solid. It is just like the growth of human life.

For example, we experience these dealings throughout our entire life:

Consecration
Dealing with Sins
Dealing with the World
Dealing with the Conscience
Obeying the Teaching of the Anointing
Knowing the Will of God
Dealing with the Flesh
Dealing with Self
Dealing with the Natural Constitution
Accepting the Discipline of the Holy Spirit
Dealing with the Spirit
Being Filled with the Holy Spirit
Knowing the Body
Knowing the Ascension
Reigning
Spiritual Warfare
Full of the Stature of Christ

So, my advice is, start by spending time with Lord. Don't look for outward change. Call on His Name, "O Lord Jesus!" all the time, loudly, audibly. Pray over His Word. Eat His Word.

Exercise your human spirit to contact Him.

Seriously, everyday I eat breakfast. It is nothing spectacular. But I grow strong through daily eating. It is also the same with "spiritual eating" to grow. Dynamic inward change within is more valuable.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 23 2014, 08:31 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 23 2014, 11:27 PM

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QUOTE(henry90x @ Apr 23 2014, 12:00 AM)
Peace and direction in life..
*
I don't want to make any speculation. You may have rightly felt God has abandoned you.

But our walk with God cannot be based on feeling.

It's about having Faith and exercising Faith all the way.

Sometime things don't turn out the way we want after we pray is because we forgot there
are forces of darkness resisting our prayer.

Remember Daniel?

Daniel 10:13 - But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.


The prince of Persian kingdom represents one of the hierarchy of the Satan's devils.

I did pray for you. I pray that you will not give up hope in your walk with God.

God Bless.
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 23 2014, 11:30 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Apr 23 2014, 01:48 AM)
http://www.gotquestions.org/signs-saving-faith.html

I've not felt any spectacular change ever in my life. It makes it really hard to accept that it's really just faith alone. Why didn't I feel any different than before, like the ones that make a 180 turn or something
*
Don't be so hard on yourself, and you shouldn't condemn yourself in anyway.

That's what the devil wants anyway.

It takes time for a flower to bloom. smile.gif

Faith in testing MUST be completed in testings. The word of God is clear on that.

So carry on where ever you left.


Sophiera
post Apr 24 2014, 05:44 PM

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Thank you for the patience Pehkay and UW. I've read my bible today.

"They testified that they "envied" that I grow up in the church life with all the knowledge. Vice versa, we (2nd generation) envied their dynamic salvation. So .... all is fair. "

Lolololololol wow I've heard of it but I never really thought about that until now. In the end both think the grass is greener on the other side
Sophiera
post Apr 24 2014, 05:53 PM

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P.S guys I need urgent help. My mom is looking for a Hokkien service to minister to her really really really old parents. One pretty much almost want to go. Maybe her mom will live only for 1 more year.

She want to learn how to speak proper Hokkien terms instead of english/cantonese/campur Wa eh lau pek ti lau teng. You get the idea. My grandparents came from China kampung so they have almost no knowledge of English/Malay and very limited Mandarin

Methodist Wesley keep giving Cantonese service instead.

The location of that hokkien church must be within LRT/Monorail range, or close to my area of PWTC

Edit:

My dad's side is 100% Christian (if you count the Catholics as one, I dunno.) and the grandparents now in Heaven. My mom's side on the other hand is the complete opposite. After 40 years also still my mom (and us by extention) is the only Christian of her family.

This post has been edited by Sophiera: Apr 24 2014, 05:56 PM
De_Luffy
post Apr 25 2014, 11:53 AM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Apr 24 2014, 05:53 PM)
P.S guys I need urgent help. My mom is looking for a Hokkien service to minister to her really really really old parents. One pretty much almost want to go. Maybe her mom will live only for 1 more year.

She want to learn how to speak proper Hokkien terms instead of english/cantonese/campur Wa eh lau pek ti lau teng. You get the idea. My grandparents came from China kampung so they have almost no knowledge of English/Malay and very limited Mandarin

Methodist Wesley keep giving Cantonese service instead.

The location of that hokkien church must be within LRT/Monorail range, or close to my area of PWTC

Edit:

My dad's side is 100% Christian (if you count the Catholics as one, I dunno.) and the grandparents now in Heaven. My mom's side on the other hand is the complete opposite. After 40 years also still my mom (and us by extention) is the only Christian of her family.
*
may i know where is your location?

Sophiera
post Apr 25 2014, 05:00 PM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Apr 25 2014, 11:53 AM)
may i know where is your location?
*
Jalan Raja Laut, the cross intersection to PWTC/Jalan Ipoh/Chow Kit
De_Luffy
post Apr 25 2014, 05:38 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Apr 25 2014, 05:00 PM)
Jalan Raja Laut, the cross intersection to PWTC/Jalan Ipoh/Chow Kit
*
u might want to consider KL methodist hokkien church, currently helm by Rev. Dr. Mark Chua if i am not mistaken

http://cmhckl.org/cn/contact.html

This post has been edited by De_Luffy: Apr 25 2014, 05:39 PM
Sophiera
post Apr 25 2014, 05:42 PM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Apr 25 2014, 05:38 PM)
u might want to consider KL methodist hokkien church, currently helm by Rev. Dr. Mark Chua if i am not mistaken

http://cmhckl.org/cn/contact.html
*
But whenever my mom go there, it's Cantonese/Mandarin instead.
De_Luffy
post Apr 25 2014, 05:44 PM

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are you sure? there is a hokkien service as well, u can try ask the office for more info?
De_Luffy
post Apr 25 2014, 05:51 PM

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the service is at 9.45am every sunday

spacelion
post Apr 27 2014, 02:05 PM

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any one recommend a medium sized church nearby Kepong with a sizeable crowd of working adults?
Sophiera
post Apr 27 2014, 06:26 PM

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My mom checked for the hokkien church and it's officially gone now. Replaced by mandarin service
De_Luffy
post Apr 28 2014, 08:53 AM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Apr 27 2014, 06:26 PM)
My mom checked for the hokkien church and it's officially gone now. Replaced by mandarin service
*
since you are in KL it quite hard to find out which church still have hokkien service
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 29 2014, 03:37 PM

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QUOTE(ALeUNe @ Apr 29 2014, 03:04 PM)
Christ is the head.
And who are the body parts of Christ?

I trust the head. I look at the body in Christ's way.
*
Let continue in our thread.

Actually when Jesus spoke about False prophet or False teachers we have to look in the context of what he means.

There are 2.

One who denies Christ and (2 John 1:7)
One who claim to be the Christ. (Matthew 24:4)

Not What cloth they wear or what car they drive.

The word of God also exhorted in

Hebrews 13:17 (KJV) - Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

If you trust God as CEO then you need to acknowledge his sovereign ship in the leaders appointed.

God appoints, God can also remove.

Honestly no one can stop you from wanting to get involve with what Church do with their finance but If I were I wouldn't even want to get involve at all because people talk.
ALeUNe
post Apr 29 2014, 03:46 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 29 2014, 03:37 PM)
Let continue in our thread.

Actually when Jesus spoke about False prophet or False teachers we have to look in the context of what he means.

There are 2.

One who denies Christ and (2 John 1:7)
One who claim to be the Christ. (Matthew 24:4)

Not What cloth they wear or what car they drive.

The word of God also exhorted in

Hebrews 13:17 (KJV) - Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

If you trust God as CEO then you need to acknowledge his sovereign ship in the leaders appointed.

God appoints, God can also remove.

Honestly no one can stop you from wanting to get involve with what Church do with their finance but If I were I wouldn't even want to get involve at all because people talk.
*
These are good guidelines.

The church leaders are appointed by men.
There are shitty pastors too.

Look at the fruit they bear.
And use "Jesus" as benchmark.

Do these so-called leaders or churches bear the fruit of Christ?


TSunknown warrior
post Apr 29 2014, 03:51 PM

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QUOTE(ALeUNe @ Apr 29 2014, 03:46 PM)
These are good guidelines.

The church leaders are appointed by men.
There are shitty pastors too.

Look at the fruit they bear.
And use "Jesus" as benchmark.

Do these so-called leaders or churches bear the fruit of Christ?
*
Not only them, You as well.

And one of the fruit of the spirit to apply;

1 Corinthians 13:5 (NIV) - It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

You got to have Faith that our Heavenly Father is in control.

Having said that, what I do is, i reserve my judgement against anyone to God almighty alone and many times I was rebuked by God, for the same measure I judge others, it will be used back to measure against me.

So in essence what God is telling me, WHO am I really to judge these people? It's really between them and God.

Hope you understand something here.


ALeUNe
post Apr 29 2014, 03:56 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Apr 29 2014, 03:51 PM)
Not only them, You as well.

And one of the fruit of the spirit to apply;

1 Corinthians 13:5 (NIV) - It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.

You got to have Faith that our Heavenly Father is in control.

Having said that, what I do is, i reserve my judgement against anyone to God almighty alone and many times I was rebuked by God, for the same measure I judge others, it will be used back to measure against me.

So in essence what God is telling me, WHO am I really to judge these people? It's really between them and God.

Hope you understand something here.
*
I draw the line clear.
Call it dishonor if you like.

The very same way I dishonor sin.
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 29 2014, 04:07 PM

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QUOTE(ALeUNe @ Apr 29 2014, 03:56 PM)
I draw the line clear.
Call it dishonor if you like.

The very same way I dishonor sin.
*
ok. no problem. biggrin.gif

That's how you see it.

And no, I'm not asking you to accept sin.

But to live a life free from worries.



This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Apr 29 2014, 04:46 PM
pehkay
post Apr 30 2014, 09:54 AM

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Interesting ..... need to ask you all, how do you find the truth of sonship? As adoption (divine filiation) or real organic sonship (we have the life of God)? Is it a big majority in the understanding that regeneration is adoption?

This post has been edited by pehkay: Apr 30 2014, 10:13 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Apr 30 2014, 09:38 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Apr 30 2014, 09:54 AM)
Interesting ..... need to ask you all, how to find the truth of sonship? As adoption (divine filiation) or real organic sonship (we have the life of God)? Is it a big majority in the understanding that regeneration is  adoption?
*
Interesting topic.

I'm not too sure if the people in here understands your question. It sounds deep.


Sophiera
post Apr 30 2014, 10:14 PM

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Even if I understand I can't answer...
pehkay
post May 1 2014, 08:03 AM

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Dear all, actually it's not that I am looking for a answer ... But more of a need to know where you all stand in this ? Is this view common?

Can you all accept that we are divinely adopted through baptism than a real divine birth having the life of God?

Sorry if I sound confusing.


TSunknown warrior
post May 1 2014, 07:58 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ May 1 2014, 08:03 AM)
Dear all, actually it's not that I am looking for a answer ... But more of a need to know where you all stand in this ? Is this view common?

Can you all accept that we are divinely adopted through baptism than a real divine birth having the life of God?

Sorry if I sound confusing.
*
It starts from there isn't it? We are adopted through receiving of God's Holy Spirit in our life then the divine birth happens in the process of our mind being repented all the time towards God.


pehkay
post May 2 2014, 08:03 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 1 2014, 07:58 PM)
It starts from there isn't it? We are adopted through receiving of God's Holy Spirit in our life then the divine birth happens in the process of our mind being repented all the time towards God.
*
Hahah ... you put them together? Actually, I have to be more picky on my sentences ...

It is either:

1) divinely adopted through believing + baptism
2) a real organic divine birth having the life of God through believing + baptism


My view biggrin.gif

It is not that adoption is wrong .... IMHO just inadequate.

The Greek word (lit., setting one as a son) occurs five times in the New Testament (Rom. 8:15, 23; 9:4; Gal. 4:5; Eph. 1:5) and has been translated in the majority of English versions as adoption as sons.

I feel this translation is unfortunate because adoption conveys the impression to most English readers that the way one becomes a son of God is through a judicial procedure.

An alternate translation, sonship, which occurs in a few versions carries the notion in English of one who has the status of a son. E.g. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

-----------

Ah ... it is just nothing .... XD

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post May 2 2014, 09:59 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ May 2 2014, 08:03 AM)
Hahah ... you put them together? Actually, I have to be more picky on my sentences ...

It is either:

1) divinely adopted through believing + baptism
2) a real organic divine birth having the life of God through believing + baptism
My view biggrin.gif

It is not that adoption is wrong .... IMHO just inadequate.

The Greek word (lit., setting one as a son) occurs five times in the New Testament (Rom. 8:15, 23; 9:4; Gal. 4:5; Eph. 1:5) and has been translated in the majority of English versions as adoption as sons.

I feel this translation is unfortunate because adoption conveys the impression to most English readers that the way one becomes a son of God is through a judicial procedure.

An alternate translation, sonship, which occurs in a few versions carries the notion in English of one who has the status of a son.  E.g. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

-----------

Ah ... it is just nothing .... XD
*
You are right but adoption "may" be technically correct as well because we all go through a judicial process at the cross, like a court proceeding our judgement were sentenced upon our Lord Jesus, only then we were declared free by the Judge. People of the world may not understand why today God can freely pardon our sins (Isaiah 55:7). They may say things like God is flip flop or has gone soft on Sin. Of course No, because we all know He has a righteous foundation which is the cross.

Maybe look at it this way, after a while, the feeling of adoption disappears as time goes by because of the Love of the Father is perfect towards us.



P.S: not to say I'm disagreeing but for discussion sake. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: May 2 2014, 10:02 AM
pehkay
post May 3 2014, 03:07 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 2 2014, 09:59 AM)
You are right but adoption "may" be technically correct as well because we all go through a judicial process at the cross, like a court proceeding our judgement were sentenced upon our Lord Jesus, only then we were declared free by the Judge. People of the world may not understand why today God can freely pardon our sins (Isaiah 55:7). They may say things like God is flip flop or has gone soft on Sin. Of course No, because we all know He has a righteous foundation which is the cross.

Maybe look at it this way, after a while, the feeling of adoption disappears as time goes by because of the Love of the Father is perfect towards us.
P.S: not to say I'm disagreeing but for discussion sake.  biggrin.gif
*
Eh .. sorry for the late reply. No problem with your disagreeing tongue.gif

But your understanding of adoption as a judicial process is the classic example of laying stress on a legal, judicial act whereby the adoptee is transferred from one family into another family, in this case, "from an alien family…into the family of God".

It also detracts from the Paul's concept of sonship as the attainment of the full inheritance of God as a result of maturing in the divine life.

Yes, salvation must be judicial [judicial redemption]. It fulfils God's righteous requirements. But there is also the organic aspect of salvation. biggrin.gif

The feeling is gone because you experienced spiritually the love of God as the Father because we are genuine sons notworthy.gif This we cannot deny.

Sonship also reinforces the notion of an organic union between Father and sons, Begetter and begotten, which union is effected by regeneration.

Through regeneration, bywhich the life and nature of God are imparted into the believers (John 1:13; 2 Pet. 1:4), human beings become children of God by virtue of the organic union with Him that is caused by the divine birth (John 1:12-13; 3:6).

This is why we are positioned to receive the full inheritance of God as genuine and matured sons of God.








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post May 6 2014, 01:46 AM

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http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/evidence-...ory?id=17884533

The story of Noah's Ark and the Great Flood is one of the most famous from the Bible, and now an acclaimed underwater archaeologist thinks he has found proof that the biblical flood was actually based on real events.

In an interview with Christiane Amanpour for ABC News, Robert Ballard, one of the world's best-known underwater archaeologists, talked about his findings. His team is probing the depths of the Black Sea off the coast of Turkey in search of traces of an ancient civilization hidden underwater since the time of Noah.




And of course people still say it's impossible, despite the facts.

This post has been edited by Sophiera: May 6 2014, 01:48 AM
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post May 8 2014, 12:13 AM

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Why does God need a Son?

QUOTE
Hebrews 1:1-2
God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.


Someone asked quite an interesting question, why does God need a son? Is He a God who has a wife and can bear a son?
A very common "question" that is confusing to the nature of who God is.

Hebrews 1:1-2, explains that in the past, God spoke through various prophets in many portions and in many ways. What this means is that God uses Prophets (Man) to represent Him under OT. This means that the common people lookup to Man as being representative of God. And the days long ago represents the Old Testament Law. We all know that the old is only a shadow, a copy of the actual divine Kingdom of Heaven to come.
In other words, the OT is NOT the original. It's only a copy.

So we need to understand what happens in the OT, seeing that prophets represents God. The God of the burning bush did say to Abraham, Walk before Me (Genesis 17:1) which means, represent me, Abraham. But we all know in OT most of the prophets was imperfect. They messed up one way or another and if you noticed, there was a distance between the people and God. (Exodus 3:5)

In verse 2 of Hebrews 1, then it continue to say,

Hebrews 1:2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

In these last days means, the final revelation of God is revealed in his Son, Christ Jesus.

Question. Why? Why in the OT, God is represented by Man and under the NT, God is represented through his begotten Son. One is Man, another God's Son.

To answer this question, you need to understand what did Jesus came to do. I won't waste much time, I'll give you the answer straight.

Jesus came to bring reconciliation between Us back to God through his sacrifice at the cross.

In the days of Old, Man represented God but there is a distance, In this last days, The Son represented God and there is reconciliation.
One is of a distance, One is of reconciliation. Do you understand the revelation now, why a Son and not any Man?

The answer is relationship. God wanted us to connect to Him in the relationship like a Father to a Son. He revealed Himself in his begotten Son so that we understand this. Father and Son.*

And Jesus Christ represents that.

God Bless.


*represent daughters as well.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: May 8 2014, 12:17 AM
pehkay
post May 8 2014, 08:38 AM

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My snippet of the day that I enjoyed:

"Do not try to be humble, for humility is like a bird. If you try to catch it, it flies away. Do not try to love your wife or to submit to your husband. You cannot do it. Simply take the Word. The Word brings life, and this life will issue in love and submission. Humility, love, and submission are all found in this life. We cannot acquire these virtues by our effort or work. They are all in the divine life."
SUSbananajoe
post May 8 2014, 03:41 PM

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unknown warrior

check out praise and worship "Yehovah naa mora" song from india. saw someone posted it on FB and thought of exploring it.

beautifully rendered in bharatanatyam dance

this is the modern version based on the original song below. getting popular now.



this is the traditional version with all the indian music. if you want to see the original song, this is it.

TSunknown warrior
post May 8 2014, 03:54 PM

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QUOTE(bananajoe @ May 8 2014, 03:41 PM)
unknown warrior

check out praise and worship "Yehovah naa mora" song from india. saw someone posted it on FB and thought of exploring it.

beautifully rendered in bharatanatyam dance

this is the modern version based on the original song below. getting popular now.

this is the traditional version with all the indian music. if you want to see the original song, this is it.

*
Nice. cool.gif
SUSbananajoe
post May 8 2014, 04:07 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 8 2014, 03:54 PM)
Nice.  cool.gif
*
awesome smile.gif

This post has been edited by bananajoe: May 8 2014, 04:07 PM
Sophiera
post May 8 2014, 05:02 PM

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Awesome, traditional dance and music can be used to glorify God also biggrin.gif
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post May 10 2014, 11:23 AM

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This song really ministers to me.

This is the privilege we have, that we can sing song of praise to God.

The greatest joy.
Sophiera
post May 10 2014, 04:11 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 10 2014, 11:23 AM)


This song really ministers to me. 

This is the privilege we have, that we can sing song of praise to God.

The greatest joy.
*
That has a good melody too. It doesn't sound alike like many Christian musicians fall trap into.
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post May 10 2014, 09:52 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ May 10 2014, 04:11 PM)
That has a good melody too. It doesn't sound alike like many Christian musicians fall trap into.
*


This song is for you, Sophiera.

Just for you, listen to the lyrics.

Please, it will help you to understand God better. smile.gif



Edit:

Here's the CD version w lyrics.



This post has been edited by unknown warrior: May 10 2014, 10:02 PM
Sophiera
post May 11 2014, 04:56 AM

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oh it's late, i'll check it out tomorrow.

By the way, do you think this game is... evil?

http://dragcave.net/user/Sophiera

Dragon Cave basically runs like this.

1. Grab egg, runts from wild dragons or people's bred eggs.
2. Raise egg into baby.
3. Raise baby into adult.
4. Repeat cycle, or start your own lineage of babies.

Trading and gifting options are available. Forum lots of people too. Every month, two new species are added to the site.

I don't see anything evil in raising imaginary animals. Yeah, it's not a good example to steal wildlife babies in real life, runt or not. But these are not real wildlife.

An aquaintance (hardcore christian) quit the game because they're dragons. Because dragon=satan logic. Nothing in the game promotes that. Here is an example of their species description. It's like reading a wildlife book.

"Bright-Breasted Wyverns are a breed of dragon easily recognized by their bright red markings. They are a small breed, only the size of a full-grown man. However, they have developed poisonous barbs on their feet to make up for their size. Their coloration is used to warn off potential predators of the danger, and is also used to attract mates. They are very social, and can often be seen preening in large groups."
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post May 11 2014, 02:20 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ May 11 2014, 04:56 AM)
oh it's late, i'll check it out tomorrow.

By the way, do you think this game is... evil?

http://dragcave.net/user/Sophiera

Dragon Cave basically runs like this.

1. Grab egg, runts from wild dragons or people's bred eggs.
2. Raise egg into baby.
3. Raise baby into adult.
4. Repeat cycle, or start your own lineage of babies.

Trading and gifting options are available. Forum lots of people too. Every month, two new species are added to the site.

I don't see anything evil in raising imaginary animals. Yeah, it's not a good example to steal wildlife babies in real life, runt or not. But these are not real wildlife.

An aquaintance (hardcore christian) quit the game because they're dragons. Because dragon=satan logic. Nothing in the game promotes that. Here is an example of their species description. It's like reading a wildlife book.

"Bright-Breasted Wyverns are a breed of dragon easily recognized by their bright red markings. They are a small breed, only the size of a full-grown man. However, they have developed poisonous barbs on their feet to make up for their size. Their coloration is used to warn off potential predators of the danger, and is also used to attract mates. They are very social, and can often be seen preening in large groups."
*
You already said mah, hardcore. laugh.gif

The rule is simple. Whatever you do, don't let it separate you from your Heavenly Father.
If something that you do, you feel guilty about it, then come to Him and pray about it.
Take it as an opportunity to ask.

Since you asked me, I don't think is evil. But that is not the point; because even the most simplest and innocent game/whatever, if it occupy your time so much, it distract you from God, then I can say it's a problem.

It's not so much how many long hours you spend on the game, but you should ask, by the very thing you do, it stops you totally from coming to God or spending time with Him, then pray about it. If it doesn't and you're still spending regular time with God, then take it as nothing.

And if it bugs you and you feel uneasy about it, pray also.

Hope that help.
Sophiera
post May 11 2014, 03:27 PM

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How would I know God says what? I never hear voices or a conviction. It feels futile and like I'm not good enough to literally hear God like the other more spiritual ones.
TSunknown warrior
post May 11 2014, 11:19 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ May 11 2014, 03:27 PM)
How would I know God says what? I never hear voices or a conviction. It feels futile and like I'm not good enough to literally hear God like the other more spiritual ones.
*
Yes you can hear God. smile.gif

It's not about audible voices all the time but inner promptings.
And the best and perhaps the easiest way to hear God, are the embedded words in the Bible.
Those are spiritual words meant to speak to you for every occasion and season.

Then there is the aspect of everyday life.

God teaches us to hear His voice little by little. It can be something as simple as being at the shopping mall and not feeling good about a purchase you’re about to make. No big deal. You put it back. At School, you feel an unrest around a certain person. You just back away. At home, you feel a prompting to spend time with your Mom. At night you hear a suggestion, “Turn off the TV. Go to bed. You need your rest.” You turn it off.

Pay attention to what you’re feeling. Those are all little ways that the Holy Spirit guides us. Don’t ignore the impressions, the promptings. God speaks to us in a Still, Small Voice. He is not going to boom out a loud dramatic way to get your attention. When God speaks, it’s usually subtle.

If you really want to get attuned to God, You have to take time to get quiet and listen to God.




Sophiera
post May 12 2014, 02:04 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 11 2014, 11:19 PM)
Yes you can hear God.  smile.gif 

It's not about audible voices all the time but inner promptings.
And the best and perhaps the easiest way to hear God, are the embedded words in the Bible.
Those are spiritual words meant to speak to you for every occasion and season.

Then there is the aspect of everyday life.

God teaches us to hear His voice little by little. It can be something as simple as being at the shopping mall and not feeling good about a purchase you’re about to make. No big deal. You put it back. At School, you feel an unrest around a certain person. You just back away. At home, you feel a prompting to spend time with your Mom. At night you hear a suggestion, “Turn off the TV. Go to bed. You need your rest.” You turn it off.

Pay attention to what you’re feeling. Those are all little ways that the Holy Spirit guides us. Don’t ignore the impressions, the promptings. God speaks to us in a Still, Small Voice. He is not going to boom out a loud dramatic way to get your attention. When God speaks, it’s usually subtle.

If you really want to get attuned to God, You have to take time to get quiet and listen to God.
*
Oooh. I wish people explained this to me 8 years ago. Or they did but it wasn't detailed.

My brother is worried that all of us are not true Christians and will end up in hell. It's part of my almost-obsession in finding answers to that regard. He doesn't believe everyone saved is saved.
TSunknown warrior
post May 12 2014, 01:54 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ May 12 2014, 02:04 AM)
Oooh. I wish people explained this to me 8 years ago. Or they did but it wasn't detailed.

My brother is worried that all of us are not true Christians and will end up in hell. It's part of my almost-obsession in finding answers to that regard. He doesn't believe everyone saved is saved.
*
But if you understand the Gospel, Salvation is assured.

And I believe there are many Christians who may not understand completely what the Gospel is all about.


Sophiera
post May 12 2014, 03:28 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 12 2014, 01:54 PM)
But if you understand the Gospel, Salvation is assured.

And I believe there are many Christians who may not understand completely what the Gospel is all about.
*
I'm going to PM you something that has bothered me in the past. My mom said it's nothing wrong but I found it offensive.

Edit: Apparently I've deleted it, or lost in the pile. Dang, it made me really mad too. It's by the brother of that hardcore Christian and he preached to me as if I was an unbeliever. It's not a cookie cutter gospel post either. It's personalized with my name on it. Are they saying I'm not Christian enough or something?

This post has been edited by Sophiera: May 12 2014, 03:37 PM
TSunknown warrior
post May 12 2014, 03:57 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ May 12 2014, 03:28 PM)
I'm going to PM you something that has bothered me in the past. My mom said it's nothing wrong but I found it offensive.

Edit: Apparently I've deleted it, or lost in the pile. Dang, it made me really mad too. It's by the brother of that hardcore Christian and he preached to me as if I was an unbeliever. It's not a cookie cutter gospel post either. It's personalized with my name on it. Are they saying I'm not Christian enough or something?
*
Can I just reassure you right now, your Salvation is secured by Christ Jesus?

And you got it by receiving it wholeheartedly with open arms?

That's all.
Sophiera
post May 12 2014, 05:20 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 12 2014, 03:57 PM)
Can I just reassure you right now, your Salvation is secured by Christ Jesus?

And you got it by receiving it wholeheartedly with open arms?

That's all.
*
Then why I kena that mail? rclxub.gif
TSunknown warrior
post May 12 2014, 07:36 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ May 12 2014, 05:20 PM)
Then why I kena that mail?  rclxub.gif
*
Sister, I don't know what mail.

Sophiera
post May 12 2014, 09:16 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 12 2014, 07:36 PM)
Sister, I don't know what mail.
*
Erm, nevermind my brain signalls crossed each other and I'm talking without head or tail. You've answered the most important part of the question anyway sweat.gif
TSunknown warrior
post May 13 2014, 09:53 PM

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Bible Devotions with UW

Why Christians should not be afraid

QUOTE
Psalm 118:6
The LORD is with me; I will not be afraid. What can mere mortals do to me?


I want to share something with you guys, something I've experienced.
It's not easy to echo this portion of scripture (Psalm 118:6). Very easy to say it out but very difficult to put it into practise.
But if you allow God to bring you to that elevated place, oh how unshakable you will be! King David discovered this secret.

In one of my quiet time with God, God gave me a revelation why some Christians today are not living out the full life Jesus came to give.
Having the Shalom Peace of God that surpasses all understanding even when trouble strikes is a blessing indeed. It helps to put life in proper perspective even in critical times. It's a blessing because it allows you sleep. Christians who are at rest are very powerful Christians, so to speak. This I know is true.

There are Christians who rely on external things like Money, own Strength, own Wisdom, self Confident, Own qualification, etc as a source of confidence and that is why When trouble comes, they crumble easily. The testing of life wipes them out like a fire. Those are what you call, wood (Biblical typology) which are easily burnt. (1 Corinthians 3:12) But if you put your trust in God and God alone, Psalms 118:6 is yours.

The Revelation came from this portion of the book Zechariah 13.

» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


See, whether you like it or not, God will allow troubles and allow his children to the test, there are no exemptions. (John 16:33)
And I can understand why, not many Christians are willing to go through the trials that God uses to refine.
Because it's painful and hard. It's real and sometimes it feels like a heavy load, you can't carry. Nobody likes that.

I want to share a secret with you. You can go through it. How?
The secret is Prayer. Pray unceasingly. (Ephesians 6:18 ) You want to know how radical I got?
I prayed in the toilet during work time every few hours, I prayed in my Table with tears, I prayed the moment I got home, lock myself in my "prayer room". I prayed whenever I can because I went through a sort of a spiritual testing of fire. Seems like everything was coming against me.

Without Prayer, you can't go through the trials. It's so painful, it can be depressing.
So Pray unceasingly. Once you pass through it, you'll not be shaken. And verse 9 came true for me. (They will call on my name and I will answer them)

Just recently, I was disturbed by something, Immediately I went to prayer, you know what? Before I even finished putting my prayers in words, God answered and solve the problem before I even finished my prayer. Hallelujah! Well don't say this is only for me, I say it's for you too.

God Bless.








Notoriez
post May 14 2014, 09:22 AM

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Guys, any idea on how to engage a Catholic priest to perform house warming for my new house?

Not really a frequent church goer and not a member for any parish groups huhu
pehkay
post May 14 2014, 04:04 PM

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That is a first time I ever heard .... ^^; Is there such a thing?
TSunknown warrior
post May 15 2014, 08:49 PM

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Hey guys,

Do you know in Malaysia, one of the greatest revival happened in our own nation, Sarawak?

It happened during the 80's.

It's a long read but it's worth the encouragement.

http://www.mountmurud.com/pdf/PDF-%20Ba-Kelalan-Miracles.pdf



» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «

Sophiera
post May 18 2014, 03:33 AM

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I dunno why i can't stop crying when i watched When God Ran music vid.
TSunknown warrior
post May 18 2014, 01:42 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ May 18 2014, 03:33 AM)
I dunno why i can't stop crying when i watched When God Ran music vid.
*
You cried because that is God holding you in his arm. smile.gif



well.....I cried too. tongue.gif
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post May 24 2014, 11:36 AM

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Christian Music in Bahasa






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post May 24 2014, 01:22 PM

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Sophiera
post May 24 2014, 11:47 PM

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A strange question, but is God a vegan? Because my family say before the fall, even lions eat vegetables.

http://www.jesusveg.com/index2.html

And then there's this. I remember what paul said about diet. Some people only feel right to eat vegetables, others accept meat.

Did lions really eat plants in Eden?
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post May 25 2014, 01:59 AM

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post May 25 2014, 03:33 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ May 24 2014, 11:47 PM)
A strange question, but is God a vegan? Because my family say before the fall, even lions eat vegetables.

http://www.jesusveg.com/index2.html

And then there's this. I remember what paul said about diet. Some people only feel right to eat vegetables, others accept meat.

Did lions really eat plants in Eden?
*
sweat.gif I am not sure why people are interested in these things .... tongue.gif But, I won't start labelling God is this and that ....

Two difficulties had arisen in the church in Rome - vegetarianism and Sabbatarianism. The vegetarians maintained that men began to eat meat only after the fall, and for that reason the eating of meat was wrong. There is no harm in ruling meat out from one's diet, but there is no salvation in it either. Vegetarianism is Cainism; it is bloodless. The Lord said, "My flesh is true food (i.e., eatable), and My blood is true drink (i.e., drinkable)" (John 6:55).

Man’s need for food before the fall was different from his need for food after the fall. We must understand the meaning of food. Food sustains our life. If a man does not eat, he will die. No one can live and survive without eating. In addition to eating herbs, vegetables, and fruits, God ordained that man should take meat in order to live and survive. In other words, God shows us that after sin entered the world, life must be sacrificed to preserve life. There is the need for an animal to lose its life to maintain our life. After sin entered this world, there was a need for the shedding of blood to maintain life. This is the reason that man’s food after the fall is different from his food before the fall. Christians should not be vegetarians; they should be free to take meat.

This does not mean that meat will necessarily do our body any good. Whether or not it is good for our body is a different thing.

The basic principle with us is that since sin has entered the world, man can no longer have life without the sacrifice of life.

You are correct that in Romans 14, we can see that Paul's attitude is very inclusive. Essentially he is not dealing with the question of right or wrong but with the question of Christian fellowship. He makes clear what the basis of this fellowship is. The point to be stressed is not whether a man's views are right or wrong, but whether God has received him.

Also, in verse 6 the phrase "to the Lord" is important. If a vegetarian sought fellowship, we should ask, "Do you refrain from eating meat because it is an idea of yours, or do you do it to please the Lord?" If he said, "To please the Lord," then I should reply, "If you can serve the Lord better this way, praise His name; go ahead."

Paul's stress is that those who live should live to the Lord and those who die should die to the Lord. Wherever we see that the central point is right, we should praise the Lord and not stress externalities. We should never lay emphasis on the technical side of Christianity, but always on the fundamental matter of doing everything "to the Lord." We must never seek to lead those who differ from us to think and act as we do, but simply seek to lead them closer to the Lord. The chief point is not whether we eat meat, but whether we are living to the Lord.

This post has been edited by pehkay: May 25 2014, 03:34 PM
Sophiera
post May 25 2014, 03:50 PM

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Pehkay thanks for the really detailed answer nod.gif

Sophiera
post May 27 2014, 03:31 PM

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I am starting to think that I can only won and control others by hurting them....

This post has been edited by Sophiera: May 27 2014, 05:34 PM
NicoRobinz
post May 27 2014, 10:31 PM

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Hi guys, can I ask something about Christianity?

What's the difference between a Christian and a Catholic?

This post has been edited by NicoRobinz: May 27 2014, 10:31 PM
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post May 27 2014, 10:37 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ May 27 2014, 03:31 PM)
I am starting to think that I can only won and control others by hurting them....
*
Or...you can learn to be patience........well nobody is perfect but we can learn to improve day by day.



QUOTE(NicoRobinz @ May 27 2014, 10:31 PM)
Hi guys, can I ask something about Christianity?

What's the difference between a Christian and a Catholic?
*
Denomination difference in terms of, Church Traditions and Rituals.

Catholic means Universal.

But they are still Christians non the less.

Christians actually means one who believes and follows Christ Jesus.



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post May 28 2014, 01:41 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 27 2014, 10:37 PM)
Or...you can learn to be patience........well nobody is perfect but we can learn to improve day by day.

*
So many times i kena pijak because I'm not cruel enough. Like being withheld of my pay...

In a dream also always kalah. Sleep also no escape from my kalahness doh.gif cry.gif shakehead.gif

This post has been edited by Sophiera: May 28 2014, 01:46 AM
subimpact
post May 28 2014, 01:59 AM

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its not a religion, its a relationship between god. mankind tend to label it as religion.
QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 27 2014, 10:51 PM)
I can say Christianity got three types.

1) The good ones.  The ones who really follow and obedient to Christianity. They are kind, friendly, caring, compassion and always merciful towards others.

2) The ego p.o.s ones. Do you heard of non-Christian cainis motivation is money. Well, for these people their motivation is a different sort, they only aim for the richness rewards of heaven for serving. They pretend to care, but they play politics and pass judgment on other people. They don't care about other people, all they care is serving the church but at the same time, they try to dominate and tell other Christians to avoid those they don't like.

I once met this boss who is in the car spare parts industry, he is very rich guy, his house is even bigger than his church. He contributes a lot to the church so the leaders are scared to ruffle him. So he surrounds himself with the most good looking guys an girls in his ministry, try to make it look like they care, but behind people's backs, he tells his cohorts to boycott and avoid contact with people he deem he don't like.

3) The pretenders. These ones just go to church and warm the pews. Well nobody is perfect, but at least they are honest about themselves.
*
so far there is only 2 type AFAIK ; non-lukewarm and lukewarm

rev 3:15-18

This post has been edited by subimpact: May 28 2014, 02:03 AM
pehkay
post May 28 2014, 07:45 AM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 27 2014, 10:51 PM)
I can say Christianity got three types.

1) The good ones.  The ones who really follow and obedient to Christianity. They are kind, friendly, caring, compassion and always merciful towards others.

2) The ego p.o.s ones. Do you heard of non-Christian cainis motivation is money. Well, for these people their motivation is a different sort, they only aim for the richness rewards of heaven for serving. They pretend to care, but they play politics and pass judgment on other people. They don't care about other people, all they care is serving the church but at the same time, they try to dominate and tell other Christians to avoid those they don't like.

I once met this boss who is in the car spare parts industry, he is very rich guy, his house is even bigger than his church. He contributes a lot to the church so the leaders are scared to ruffle him. So he surrounds himself with the most good looking guys an girls in his ministry, try to make it look like they care, but behind people's backs, he tells his cohorts to boycott and avoid contact with people he deem he don't like.

3) The pretenders. These ones just go to church and warm the pews. Well nobody is perfect, but at least they are honest about themselves.
*
Are you a Christian?
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post May 28 2014, 08:01 AM

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QUOTE(subimpact @ May 28 2014, 01:59 AM)
its not a religion, its a relationship between god. mankind tend to label it as religion.
so far there is only 2 type AFAIK ; non-lukewarm and lukewarm

rev 3:15-18
*
biggrin.gif Actually the negative conditions of the seven churches is more than just lukewarm

Ephesus - leaving of the first love (best love) => start of degradation
Smyrna- the Lord referred to the “synagogue of Satan” (Rev. 2:9). The synagogue is a strong sign of Judaism. Also to overcome persecution, comprising tribulation, poverty, trial, imprisonment;
Pergamos - marriage to the world. Originally, the world opposed the church; now the world and the church are married. The method of Balaam is to destroy the separation between the church and the world, and the result is idol worship.
Thyatira - no need to say lar ... religious hierarchy, leaven etc.
Sardis - spiritually dead or dying.
Philadephia - being absolute to keep the Lord’s word (the only positive one)
Laodicia = lukewarm

Just a overview of overviews ...
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post May 28 2014, 10:42 AM

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me also kena pijak sad.gif
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post May 28 2014, 10:43 AM

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Pijak?
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post May 28 2014, 12:31 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ May 28 2014, 01:41 AM)
So many times i kena pijak because I'm not cruel enough. Like being withheld of my pay...

In a dream also always kalah. Sleep also no escape from my kalahness  doh.gif  cry.gif shakehead.gif
*
We don't have to be a doormat but we don't have to be cruel either.

Just know your reasons whether it's justified.
Sophiera
post May 28 2014, 06:12 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ May 28 2014, 10:43 AM)
Pijak?
*
Intimidated or blackmailed with perceived subpar performance to be withheld of pay.

Or, recently I tried to update my modem's firmware. It bricked instead because of windows 8 reasons. I can't know that. And yet I still kena marah because I failed to foresee that Asus modems are so fickle.

I signed up for unifi. Dad said okay, bro heard it and made a big fuss about not discussing with him first. Dad is the owner of the account, of course naturally I will talk to him first.

And after big hoo hah, the next day bro said ok. Got scolded over nothing.

The scolding include critisism of my character. Immature b**** la. Get angry salah, yell salah, blow up also salah. Say having a discussion padahal I nothing I say is valid to defend myself. Even if family say they're not attacking me, I certainly still feel like a siege.

I always have this issue. Say not attacking me, but the tone and reasoning macam attack saja.

When communication breakdown it's always semua salah Sophie

This post has been edited by Sophiera: May 28 2014, 06:23 PM
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post May 28 2014, 06:17 PM

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QUOTE(subimpact @ May 28 2014, 01:59 AM)
its not a religion, its a relationship between god. mankind tend to label it as religion.
so far there is only 2 type AFAIK ; non-lukewarm and lukewarm

rev 3:15-18
*
Christianity is not a religion? Do you know what religion means?

QUOTE
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.


You mean Christian don't believe in God? biggrin.gif
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post May 28 2014, 09:52 PM

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amen
may the god bless the earth with rain
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post May 28 2014, 10:25 PM

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This post has been edited by atheistaa: May 29 2014, 03:49 PM
subimpact
post May 29 2014, 12:07 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ May 28 2014, 08:01 AM)
biggrin.gif Actually the negative conditions of the seven churches is more than just lukewarm

Ephesus -  leaving of the first love (best love) => start of degradation
Smyrna- the Lord referred to the “synagogue of Satan” (Rev. 2:9). The synagogue is a strong sign of Judaism. Also to overcome persecution, comprising tribulation, poverty, trial, imprisonment;
Pergamos - marriage to the world. Originally, the world opposed the church; now the world and the church are married. The method of Balaam is to destroy the separation between the church and the world, and the result is idol worship.
Thyatira -  no need to say lar ... religious hierarchy, leaven etc.
Sardis - spiritually dead or dying.
Philadephia - being absolute to keep the Lord’s word (the only positive one)
Laodicia = lukewarm

Just a overview of overviews ...
*
yes please enlighten me when i read chapter 5 of crazy love by francis chan... he was refering to us christian as being either one of the type of christians im not trying to argue here but just sharing some light on how to imply verse in the bible reflecting to us. not just for the sake of reading the bible as theocraticly

QUOTE(kernan_rio @ May 28 2014, 06:17 PM)
Christianity is not a religion? Do you know what religion means?
You mean Christian don't believe in God?  biggrin.gif
*
i know what is religion, its a word where they do not know what classified groups of a people that follows a principle and teaching. but its more of man made stuff with extra salt pepper and other stuff.

QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 28 2014, 09:51 PM)
I never said it was a religion.

nope, there's the third type - those in denial, they think they doing a great service to god, play a lot of politics at church, all they care is their treasures in heaven but they don't give a crap about those "poor in spirit". In other words, they just use people for their own benefit.

I heard of stories of mistreatment and abuse of power.

I heard of stories of politics in church, where some of the leaders surround themselves with those people who are second generation members of the church, whereas those outsiders, they whack them with double standard requirements.

Yeah, I even heard of stories of one pastor who use a lot of money to build an unnecessary building for his church, drained the funds of the church and cause half the congregation to leave. I won't say whichchurch that is, but for sure, they didn't need that huge building.....which they only use like several times a year and it was very far away from the other satellite churches anyway.

The decision to build the building wasn't democratic. Most of those nominated into the committee was his gang members. As "yes men", of course they all approved it.

Then there's another story of a church in PJ, a church leader influence a sister to dump her boyfriend, because he misused his leadership influences to brainwash her into thinking the boyfriend wasn't godly enough. After they broke up, he made his move on her and it was successful.

I have a Christian friend, she got pregnant when she was 22 because she had pre-marital sex with a church worker who was in charge of the Audio equipment. The church sacked the church worker and they impose their decision that the marriage between my friend and the church worker wasn't feasible. Next, they forced her to give away her baby for adoption.

5 years later, she remarried, but changed to another church, she cried every day wondering how is the child she never known is doing now.

There are some church people who are very dogmatic...very selfish, very critical, only think about themselves.
*
my dear friend, the first statement i've made wasnt refering to you... however the one below your quote refers to my understanding of types of christans which is two.. it sad to know lukewarm Christians are definitely around us even in the congregation (church). ever heard of the saying a rotten egg will spoil the whole cake. same goes to our walk in faith... gotta be careful with people..
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post May 29 2014, 12:46 AM

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QUOTE(kernan_rio @ May 28 2014, 06:17 PM)
Christianity is not a religion? Do you know what religion means?
You mean Christian don't believe in God?  biggrin.gif
*
QUOTE(subimpact @ May 29 2014, 12:07 AM)

i know what is religion, its a word where they do not know what classified groups of a people that follows a principle and teaching. but its more of man made stuff with extra salt pepper and other stuff.
*
Hey guys, don't mind if I share this.

Why Christianity is not a religion?

Because the root word religion in classic Latin ("religio") means to bind.

In typology meaning one's ultimate aim or salvation is bound to the laws or doctrine of being save.

Here's a couple of excerpt

http://philippians1v21.wordpress.com/why-b...not-a-religion/

The way to be right with God in every religion is by earning your way. It is based on works, not grace. Christianity is different from every religion in this aspect: all other religions (including Mormonism, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism) state that you must earn the right to be reconciled with God. It is by what you do in this life (good deeds or bad deeds) that determines your eternal destiny. Christianity is completely different from this. It is not religion.

http://www.christinyou.net/pages/Xnotrel.html

The Latin word from which the English word "religion" is derived means "to bind up." Jesus did not come to bind us up in rules and regulations or rituals of devotion, but to set us free to be man as God inended.


http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christiani...lationship.aspx

With all the religions in the world, what makes Christianity different?
Christianity is not a set of rules that one must follow to gain acceptance or inclusion. The Apostle Paul himself said that we are saved by faith, not by works.
But so many Christians walk around with the mindset today that they must do something or continue to do something to maintain their identity as a Christian.
Think of Christianity more as a relationship, or marriage, if you well. As the Church, we are in fact called the bride of Christ throughout Scripture.




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post May 29 2014, 12:49 AM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 28 2014, 09:51 PM)
I never said it was a religion.

nope, there's the third type - those in denial, they think they doing a great service to god, play a lot of politics at church, all they care is their treasures in heaven but they don't give a crap about those "poor in spirit". In other words, they just use people for their own benefit.

I heard of stories of mistreatment and abuse of power.

I heard of stories of politics in church, where some of the leaders surround themselves with those people who are second generation members of the church, whereas those outsiders, they whack them with double standard requirements.

Yeah, I even heard of stories of one pastor who use a lot of money to build an unnecessary building for his church, drained the funds of the church and cause half the congregation to leave. I won't say whichchurch that is, but for sure, they didn't need that huge building.....which they only use like several times a year and it was very far away from the other satellite churches anyway.

The decision to build the building wasn't democratic. Most of those nominated into the committee was his gang members. As "yes men", of course they all approved it.

Then there's another story of a church in PJ, a church leader influence a sister to dump her boyfriend, because he misused his leadership influences to brainwash her into thinking the boyfriend wasn't godly enough. After they broke up, he made his move on her and it was successful.

I have a Christian friend, she got pregnant when she was 22 because she had pre-marital sex with a church worker who was in charge of the Audio equipment. The church sacked the church worker and they impose their decision that the marriage between my friend and the church worker wasn't feasible. Next, they forced her to give away her baby for adoption.

5 years later, she remarried, but changed to another church, she cried every day wondering how is the child she never known is doing now.

There are some church people who are very dogmatic...very selfish, very critical, only think about themselves.
*
Yo Man,

I can understand where you're coming. How I solve this dissatisfaction is to pray for them and still love them.

Fighting fire with fire will only cause more burns that you ever hope to subside. Prayers works.

Well all this, if you are a Christian, otherwise just take it as knowledge.




subimpact
post May 29 2014, 02:47 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 29 2014, 12:46 AM)
Hey guys, don't mind if I share this.

Why Christianity is not a religion?

Because the root word religion in classic Latin ("religio") means to bind.

In typology meaning one's ultimate aim or salvation is bound to the laws or doctrine of being save.

Here's a couple of excerpt

http://philippians1v21.wordpress.com/why-b...not-a-religion/

The way to be right with God in every religion is by earning your way.  It is based on works, not grace.  Christianity is different from every religion in this aspect: all other religions (including Mormonism, Islam, Hinduism, and Buddhism) state that you must earn the right to be reconciled with God.  It is by what you do in this life (good deeds or bad deeds) that determines your eternal destiny.  Christianity is completely different from this.  It is not religion.

http://www.christinyou.net/pages/Xnotrel.html

The Latin word from which the English word "religion" is derived means "to bind up." Jesus did not come to bind us up in rules and regulations or rituals of devotion, but to set us free to be man as God inended.
http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Christiani...lationship.aspx

With all the religions in the world, what makes Christianity different?
Christianity is not a set of rules that one must follow to gain acceptance or inclusion. The Apostle Paul himself said that we are saved by faith, not by works.
But so many Christians walk around with the mindset today that they must do something or continue to do something to maintain their identity as a Christian.
Think of Christianity more as a relationship, or marriage, if you well. As the Church, we are in fact called the bride of Christ throughout Scripture.
*
thanks for sharing... but i already know that Christianity is a relationship with god biggrin.gif
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post May 29 2014, 03:00 AM

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QUOTE(subimpact @ May 29 2014, 02:47 AM)
thanks for sharing... but i already know that Christianity is a relationship with god biggrin.gif
*
Amen.
pehkay
post May 29 2014, 08:52 AM

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QUOTE(subimpact @ May 29 2014, 12:07 AM)
yes please enlighten me when i read chapter 5 of crazy love by francis chan... he was refering to us christian as being either one of the type of christians im not trying to argue here but just sharing some light on how to imply verse in the bible reflecting to us. not just for the sake of reading the bible as theocraticly 
*
Oh oh ... I didn't meant it that way ... but just to spur you on to consider more "gold mines" in seven local churches in Revelation. biggrin.gif

But I am not sure what you want me to enlighten on? Lukewarm? sweat.gif

Maybe I will start with Ephesus ....

Although the church in Ephesus had many virtues [Paul himself laboured there 3 years day and night; It also had Apollos, Aquila, Priscilla, Timothy, Tychicus, and others working in it ^^], it was degraded because it had left its first love. In Revelation 2:4 the Lord said, "I have this against you, that you have left your first love." The Greek word for "first" here is the same as the word translated "best" in Luke 15:22. Our first love toward the Lord must be the best love for Him. The church in Ephesus had left this best love toward the Lord. It became a formal church life.

This is the clear revelation of the source of the degradation of the church during the first century. We may work and labor for the Lord and we may be pure doctrinally and correct scripturally, yet not have the first love for the Lord.

A church can be zealous and active outwardly, having the pure faith and the proper judgment, yet gradually losing the love which is the source of life. From the world's view and even from one's own view, the church may be excellent and display no traces of decline.

But from the view of the Lord who searches the inward parts and the hearts, the source [unseen] is detected. Can a bridegroom be satisfied if a bride is faithful in all duties but cold in love? Can a person hungry for love be satisfied by good works and diligence? Can a love as great as Christ's be satisfied by cold activities and dry works that are empty of a burning love? The Lord is jealous of our love! Love demands love, and short of it, no outward diligence can compensate for its loss.

Also, the reason one continue labouring at the cost of losing the first love might be the work had become a habit or that the work might have retained a good name for them. But, we cannot deceive the Lord with vain outward appearances. wub.gif

It is by this love that we are the lampstand. If we lose this love, the Lord Jesus will remove the lampstand. This means that if we lose our love, we will lose the lampstand. So the more we love the Lord Jesus, the more we will be shining, and the more we will enjoy Him as the tree of life. To be the lampstand and to enjoy the Lord as the tree of life requires the best love toward the Lord, a love which surpasses all other things. We must have the first love, the best love, the most pure love toward the Lord Jesus. Then we will be the living lampstand, and we will be qualified to enjoy Him as the tree of life. Love, light, and life all go together. If we have the first love and the best love toward the Lord Jesus, we will be a shining lampstand, and we will enjoy the Lord Jesus as the tree of life.









subimpact
post May 29 2014, 12:54 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ May 29 2014, 08:52 AM)
Oh oh ... I didn't meant it that way ... but just to spur you on to consider more "gold mines" in seven local churches in Revelation. biggrin.gif

But I am not sure what you want me to enlighten on? Lukewarm?  sweat.gif

Maybe I will start with Ephesus ....

Although the church in Ephesus had many virtues [Paul himself laboured there 3 years day and night; It also had Apollos, Aquila, Priscilla, Timothy, Tychicus, and others working in it ^^], it was degraded because it had left its first love. In Revelation 2:4 the Lord said, "I have this against you, that you have left your first love." The Greek word for "first" here is the same as the word translated "best" in Luke 15:22. Our first love toward the Lord must be the best love for Him. The church in Ephesus had left this best love toward the Lord. It became a formal church life.

This is the clear revelation of the source of the degradation of the church during the first century. We may work and labor for the Lord and we may be pure doctrinally and correct scripturally, yet not have the first love for the Lord.

A church can be zealous and active outwardly, having the pure faith and the proper judgment, yet gradually losing the love which is the source of life. From the world's view and even from one's own view, the church may be excellent and display no traces of decline.

But from the view of the Lord who searches the inward parts and the hearts, the source [unseen] is detected. Can a bridegroom be satisfied if a bride is faithful in all duties but cold in love? Can a person hungry for love be satisfied by good works and diligence? Can a love as great as Christ's be satisfied by cold activities and dry works that are empty of a burning love? The Lord is jealous of our love! Love demands love, and short of it, no outward diligence can compensate for its loss.

Also, the reason one continue labouring at the cost of losing the first love might be the work had become a habit or that the work might have retained a good name for them. But, we cannot deceive the Lord with vain outward appearances.  wub.gif

It is by this love that we are the lampstand. If we lose this love, the Lord Jesus will remove the lampstand. This means that if we lose our love, we will lose the lampstand. So the more we love the Lord Jesus, the more we will be shining, and the more we will enjoy Him as the tree of life. To be the lampstand and to enjoy the Lord as the tree of life requires the best love toward the Lord, a love which surpasses all other things. We must have the first love, the best love, the most pure love toward the Lord Jesus. Then we will be the living lampstand, and we will be qualified to enjoy Him as the tree of life. Love, light, and life all go together. If we have the first love and the best love toward the Lord Jesus, we will be a shining lampstand, and we will enjoy the Lord Jesus as the tree of life.
*
amen , its very knowledgeable of you to show some "gold mines" for me... im didnt go to bible college so cant really point out stuff..so kudos to you bro/sis in christ. well we are all saved by grace . biggrin.gif and our love cant be compared to how god loves us.. we are just too insignificant sentient beings which yet still being loved by the alpha and omega . oh not to forget god see us through and through, he knows our past, present and future ....

QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 29 2014, 11:59 AM)
Lukewarm?

If you heard about City Harvest, those leaders aren't exactly lukewarm...they really believe what they are doing is for god's goodness.

A lot of areas are very grey...but i know when i can see whether a christian is a nice person or an ego maniac....is when i don't see any kindness in their hearts and they tend to be controlling, dominant, super dogmatic, political and try to judge other people without even giving benefit of the doubt.
*
yes i've heard on city harvest, not being judgemental on their way... but its very rational to say that anything under the eyes of the lord without peace is just a seed of destruction.. i tend not to dwell into things that are so complex .. i prefer to keep it short, simple and understandable...that is what lacking in our brothers and sisters in faith as of today.. also refer to pehkay's quote above to see the exact thing happened during those times and what did happened in city harvest, there are more other undisclosed activities of such blasphemy happening around churches which is quite a wake up call for us to pray more.
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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 29 2014, 11:56 AM)
If you think it does, then i suppose so.

not really a follower of your...err, i suppose religion or your beliefs.

But i can tell you, these people whether they are in office or your church, cause huge problems for people.

Yeah i got some frens who are christians, they tell me about these people...cause havoc and inconveniences in their lifes.

I won't judge whether these people will go to heaven or not, but i can judge them on the merit on whether i can trust them or they qualify as my friends.
I give you an example, there's a poster name Nemesis lah...he is quite active in the job career forum, apparently he is a PR in Australia lah. One poster created thread about the Malaysians who complain about our msian situation then go migrating.

So i commented that i know one friend who was my classmate...before he left, he attended my class reunion and boasted about how he and his family going to migrate to australia. He said it was god's divine and will, that his family go to australia to make a better life. Then i commented in that thread about this friend of mine...i said, my friend was disillusioning himself...because he was using god as an excuse. I mean, if a migrant want to migrate for the $$$, children education and better life, just be honest and say so lah..but don't bullshiit to us non christians that you are there because of god's divine blessing. A lot of christian friends of mine tell me that they would rather stay in msia because its the hot zone...because their god tell them to make disciples of all nations, to evangelise and to help those in need. So what purpose is for someone to migrate to australia to have make disciples of all nations? When he went over there, he didn't even bother to serve at church, and he only attend church to network with other PRs there. So he is literraly bullshiit to us by using god as an excuse and i don't like it at all.

Then this Nemises guy who is a christian, started to get butthurt when i posted that, he call me names and say i am a liar. I know this friend of mine for 10 years, and this nemises guy start to accuse me..what basis that nemises has?

THis nemises guy even try to curse me and wish me bad life...because he was so butthurt that he was using god as an excuse to migrate..i wasn't even talking about nemises because i don't know him but suddenly he came out to attack me.

So i tell you lah, these are the third type of chrisitans, the ego type...i thought christians are taught to be meek and kind...slap left cheek, offer right cheek but this nemises guy, i don't even talk about him, he start cursing me.
*
Lot of Christian are still on a spiritual journey, different Christian different spiritual maturity.

Many times we meet those who are still stuck at the foundation basic, haven't move on to the next level living a life that's Christ Like.

Because like everyone else they carry some sort of emotional baggage unwilling to let go due to past hurts in life. It takes time for some people to be healed of their wounds.


subimpact
post May 29 2014, 02:54 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 29 2014, 01:44 PM)
that is why you guys should be ever more careful about these third type of christians...

i am not here to judge if they are genuinely christian or not..but one thing for sure, the decisions of something of these christians will hurt the rest.

they are everywhere, even in your own church. Some of them control ministries, and they really think what they are doing is so darn right, that they'll do anything to achieve it.

i got a close friend who works at a big local church, he tells me that his ministry is getting under resourced because one other ministry is witholding all the help...due to competition for resources.
*
not hurt the rest but humanity itself on having a bad impression on Christians themself... its easier to find fault of others than to praise them.. its very human nature... like u see in our world today vatican is very deep trouble of all the bad news coming out to the media.. that is just like the slice of the icing cake...

please do note end time is very real and its kinda happening ... raping, murdering, kidnapping, and etc... are more prone as of today then if was during our forefathers days..


QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 29 2014, 02:30 PM)
Lot of Christian are still on a spiritual journey, different Christian different spiritual maturity.

Many times we meet those who are still stuck at the foundation basic, haven't move on to the next level living a life that's Christ Like.

Because like everyone else they carry some sort of emotional baggage unwilling to let go due to past hurts in life. It takes time for some people to be healed of their wounds.
*
some even worst, thing to highly of them selves like the Pharisees ... eventually that is the beginning of their fall from grace..
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amen
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QUOTE(subimpact @ May 29 2014, 02:54 PM)
not hurt the rest but humanity itself on having a bad impression on Christians themself... its easier to find fault of others than to praise them.. its very human nature... like u see in our world today vatican is very deep trouble of all the bad news coming out to the media.. that is just like the slice of the icing cake...

please do note end time is very real and its kinda happening ... raping, murdering, kidnapping, and etc... are more prone as of today then if was during our forefathers days..
some even worst, thing to highly of them selves like the Pharisees ... eventually that is the beginning of their fall from grace..
*
One thing that I do when I go to Church is to seek the Lord.

I don't go to Church looking at people, or even Pastors because I already know nobody is perfect.

In fact doing that may bring disappointments. When we have the right motive in going to Church, we will not be easily shaken by what we see.
subimpact
post May 29 2014, 03:04 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 29 2014, 03:02 PM)
One thing that I do when I go to Church is to seek the Lord.

I don't go to Church looking at people, or even Pastors because I already know nobody is perfect.

In fact doing that may bring disappointments. When we have the right motive in going to Church, we will not be easily shaken by what we see.
*
Matthew 7:1-2

biggrin.gif




subimpact
post May 29 2014, 04:09 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 29 2014, 03:56 PM)
its very easy to say not to find fault in others....but if you got non christian uncle and aunties, and one day they stumble upon you maybe smoking (hypothetically speaking lah), then you say to them, "oh should not blame me, look at the goodness of god through the bible, but not the actions of its followers".

Above i just give an example ah.

I am not saying i expect christians to be perfect all the time, i have christian friends who smoke, swear and even talk about pretty girls. But at least they are honest about their mistakes lah, they are genuine and they got what cantonese call, "Yee Hei"...meaning, when i call them up to chat or yum cha, they hang out, this i really respect them because they think it is worth to spend time with other non christians.

It is those super ego, christians that think they are above society, that I do not have respect. These jokers are dogmatic to the end but also hypocritical to the end. They never admit their mistake, always think everything they do is for god but actually they doing it for themself.
*
every religion has flaws.... and im just pointing out Christian is actually not a religion if you dig deeper into it.... if your scenario above states and aims to fellow brethren, what more for the rest of other religion ... u can replace <christians> with any other religion and the outcome would be the same right?

a true believer , will not have that kinda flaws but with the love of god and grace they will be truly transform naturally.. yes it will take some time.. but slowly but surely..

no one is perfect bro... and we dont have the rights to whine of other people actions on how imperfect people are mis-using their religion..

super ego is considered like extremist ... example those suicide bombers , KKK and etc.. they have their own agenda and sinister plan for their own gain , not god... plainly simply put its just like how gov. is exploiting religion to their benefits ..

psalms 140 clearly states of this in our world / society today..

QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 29 2014, 04:02 PM)
on the contrary i know very mature christians who act like jerks.

i used to have this crazy dictator christian boss who is very active at church.

nobody in our dept likes him. there was one time during teambuilding, he wanted to forced a pregnant colleague to go for the outward bound school training.

he is put on so much controls that nobody in the co liked him but when it came to his own indiscretions of cheating figures, he didn't mind closing one eye.

In the end, one of the managers in the company collected enough evidence to force out this christian boss. He was adamant to the end...he never admit he was cheating the figures.
*
how do u label a christian , christian... im really puzzle... being active in church doesnt make one to be a very holy pious Christian..... please be dont be the rest of the people mentality im sure u could do better thinking both ends of the scenario .... the only person that knows if he is a true believer is between god and oneself...

stereotyping people going churches consider being a Christian is just plain sad.

This post has been edited by subimpact: May 29 2014, 04:17 PM
SUSleonhart88
post May 29 2014, 04:14 PM

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I was quite down recently, please holy spirit fulfill my life to worship you Jesus smile.gif

This post has been edited by leonhart88: May 29 2014, 04:15 PM
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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 29 2014, 02:30 PM)
Lot of Christian are still on a spiritual journey, different Christian different spiritual maturity.

Many times we meet those who are still stuck at the foundation basic, haven't move on to the next level living a life that's Christ Like.

Because like everyone else they carry some sort of emotional baggage unwilling to let go due to past hurts in life. It takes time for some people to be healed of their wounds.
*
may I know what the living that's Christ like?
Sophiera
post May 29 2014, 04:20 PM

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Maturity in God's eyes is measured by humility. If your church leader is bossing around he's not mature.
SUSleonhart88
post May 29 2014, 04:21 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 29 2014, 03:02 PM)
One thing that I do when I go to Church is to seek the Lord.

I don't go to Church looking at people, or even Pastors because I already know nobody is perfect.

In fact doing that may bring disappointments. When we have the right motive in going to Church, we will not be easily shaken by what we see.
*
my Pastor said if we believe in Jesus so we will not judged in judgement day, we will go to heaven automatically. May I know what will we do after we are in Heaven other than praising and singing?
subimpact
post May 29 2014, 04:22 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 29 2014, 04:02 PM)
on the contrary i know very mature christians who act like jerks.

i used to have this crazy dictator christian boss who is very active at church.

nobody in our dept likes him. there was one time during teambuilding, he wanted to forced a pregnant colleague to go for the outward bound school training.

he is put on so much controls that nobody in the co liked him but when it came to his own indiscretions of cheating figures, he didn't mind closing one eye.

In the end, one of the managers in the company collected enough evidence to force out this christian boss. He was adamant to the end...he never admit he was cheating the figures.
*
how do u label a christian , christian... im really puzzle... being active in church doesnt make one to be a very holy pious Christian..... please be dont be the rest of the people mentality im sure u could do better thinking both ends of the scenario .... the only person that knows if he is a true believer is between god and oneself...

stereotyping people going churches consider being a Christian is just plain sad.

QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 29 2014, 04:14 PM)
everyone have flaws lah but its the ones who bulldoze other people are the ones who i believe are the third type of christians.

they not necessary have to kill somebody to be a super ego. i have personally witnessed a pastor force my friend to give away her baby for adoption because the pastorial leadership didn't think she was capable of being a mother. She was 22 for goodness sakes ! Her boyfriend who impregnated her was a church worker there, he got sacked for that action of course. But the church forbade them both to get married and to try to give the baby a real family life.

if we dun have the right to say anything, then when ISMA and perkosa make comments, we just keep quiet, is that what you are saying?
*
John 10:10

those are thief , using our lord name in vain and tarnishing it... those people bulldozing aren't christian to begain with... they are more likely to be lukewarm and lost their way being carnal..

they can kill someone spirit / mind (manipulation) we are on thin lines sadly in our country ... saying that its all racial harmoy and all but the underlying truth its turning very awful as years goes by.. we do have rights, but how many people would actually fight for the truth ? malaysia attitude always over shadow us man..

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QUOTE(leonhart88 @ May 29 2014, 04:14 PM)
I was quite down recently, please holy spirit fulfill my life to worship you Jesus smile.gif
*
if u can read psalms.. very good book to motivate ya spirit
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post May 29 2014, 04:29 PM

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QUOTE(subimpact @ May 29 2014, 04:24 PM)
if u can read psalms.. very good book to motivate ya spirit
*
I need to calm myself bro.I think I am more like Ayub where I am so down now. How to make holy spirit come to me every day?
subimpact
post May 29 2014, 04:32 PM

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QUOTE(leonhart88 @ May 29 2014, 04:29 PM)
I need to calm myself bro.I think I am more like Ayub where I am so down now. How to make holy spirit come to me every day?
*
of coz one own strength is nearly impossible to achieve it .... you will know the better rest if you seek him ... he is alwiz there for you waiting patiently every forgiving ...


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post May 29 2014, 04:34 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 29 2014, 04:02 PM)
on the contrary i know very mature christians who act like jerks.

i used to have this crazy dictator christian boss who is very active at church.

nobody in our dept likes him. there was one time during teambuilding, he wanted to forced a pregnant colleague to go for the outward bound school training.

he is put on so much controls that nobody in the co liked him but when it came to his own indiscretions of cheating figures, he didn't mind closing one eye.

In the end, one of the managers in the company collected enough evidence to force out this christian boss. He was adamant to the end...he never admit he was cheating the figures.
*
I think you don't understand what I mean by spiritual maturity.

It has nothing to do with positions.
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post May 29 2014, 04:51 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 29 2014, 04:47 PM)
they are very spiritually matured...they can even sing worship songs, do sunday teachings...like the devil...

as i said i will never know if they are from the god or the devil because only god know that...

their fruits are very grey...these ego christians serve in the church and are well respected, but they play a lot of politics...
*
That's not spiritually matured at all.
subimpact
post May 29 2014, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 29 2014, 04:44 PM)
christians are those people who obey what their god tell them to do and to do it out their love for their god.

also christians are those who exhibit kindness, considerateness and friendliness towards other people like what their god jesus did.

simply as that.

this is correct but this does not make me a christian if im actively being in church ... coz human tends to fall short for the glory of the lord.. consider it a test of time/salvation of us... some pick themselves up, some just spiral downhill and go out of control..hence the bulldozing fiasco...

i know you are kinda against this people... but i cant blame... u got all in your right to bad mouthing those people... just plain sad that they still hold the "Christian-title" as their meat shield.


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post May 29 2014, 04:58 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 29 2014, 04:47 PM)
they are very spiritually matured...they can even sing worship songs, do sunday teachings...like the devil...

as i said i will never know if they are from the god or the devil because only god know that...

their fruits are very grey...these ego christians serve in the church and are well respected, but they play a lot of politics...
*
very simple to know if its not from the bible, then is definitely man fabrication...

common sense la... where got teaching go against one principle....

u cannot weight a people being spiritually by just observing them sing song and sunday teaching man.. their personal life plays a part as well...

u know people nowofdays alot of two faces... outside different kind inside different kind... its very norm.. but only god knows our true intentions..
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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 29 2014, 04:47 PM)
they are very spiritually matured...they can even sing worship songs, do sunday teachings...like the devil...

as i said i will never know if they are from the god or the devil because only god know that...

their fruits are very grey...these ego christians serve in the church and are well respected, but they play a lot of politics...
*
Spiritual maturity has to do with the fruits of the Holy Spirit.

While Singing worship Songs and Teachings are skills and gifts imparted.


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post May 29 2014, 07:36 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 29 2014, 07:28 PM)
I know one businessman, he is super rich guy, his house is bigger than the church got infinity swimming pool on the 2nd floor like marina bay sands.

One day afriend, invited me, because of this businessman decided to hold a Xmas dinner at his house.

there were 50 youths there at that time...

then one day, he go and preach to us "It is bad to have a lot of money, a lot of material wealth because it corrupts us...you must remain humble and stable income"..."do not pursue the material wealth of this world..."

i was like what the heck? The dude got like 5 BMWs, Mercs and Bentleys parked outside his humongous 6 storey house. He even has his own elevator.

i got nothing against rich people but when rich people tell us that its bad to be rich...gosh. And what is a super rich guy born with a silver spoon inherited his richness from his parents know anything about the corruptness of money?
*
it means he is not happy with his life while not willing to give all his money to charity. I prefer rich guy who drive old cars,live in same house for 35yrs, eat mcdonald, and giving 50% money to charity. He is Warren Buffett but he is not perfect too since he is still human. Please don't trust everybody's talk, my pastor said to believe person just from what he does not what he talked.
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post May 29 2014, 08:11 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 29 2014, 07:28 PM)
I know one businessman, he is super rich guy, his house is bigger than the church got infinity swimming pool on the 2nd floor like marina bay sands.

One day afriend, invited me, because of this businessman decided to hold a Xmas dinner at his house.

there were 50 youths there at that time...

then one day, he go and preach to us "It is bad to have a lot of money, a lot of material wealth because it corrupts us...you must remain humble and stable income"..."do not pursue the material wealth of this world..."

i was like what the heck? The dude got like 5 BMWs, Mercs and Bentleys parked outside his humongous 6 storey house. He even has his own elevator.

i got nothing against rich people but when rich people tell us that its bad to be rich...gosh. And what is a super rich guy born with a silver spoon inherited his richness from his parents know anything about the corruptness of money?
*
Like I said, that's an example of no spiritual maturity.
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post May 29 2014, 08:40 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 29 2014, 08:11 PM)
Like I said, that's an example of no spiritual maturity.
*
You had one hell of a day, and kudos to u, u did very well. thumbup.gif
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post May 30 2014, 02:04 AM

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Hosea 13:6..

usually people become rich then forgot Jesus.
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post May 30 2014, 09:33 AM

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QUOTE(Brusky @ May 29 2014, 08:40 PM)
You had one hell of a day, and kudos to u, u did very well.  thumbup.gif
*
I need prayer.

Thanks for encouragement.
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post May 30 2014, 09:58 AM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 30 2014, 09:52 AM)
oh the bizman is very knowlegeable in the bible, he quotes a lot of stuff.....

its funny how he concentrates on educating his 50 youths by asking them to come to his big house for meeting, buy a training book from a famous pastor from saddleback church and do weekly study on it.

He's been doing that for 4 years, half his so-called "12 apostles" cg leaders don't even know what its like to be a cg leader. They take on rotating shift as cg leader only twice a year ! And those fellas are in their mid to late 20s....most of them don't even know anything about their religion.

the businessman is so protective ! Meaning by the time they reach 30s, they should be promoted into the adult cg...why for goodness sakes they have to be like babies nurtured in a young adult nursery?

If he really cares about their spiritual maturity, he would split 50 over young adult members and divide them into say 4 cg...then they will surely grow...other churches are doing that, but he doesn't want to because he is a control freak.

As a result when 50 people come for meeting, no one knows if one drops out or not...most of the time, only like 12 or 13 active ones will come. THats the trouble with big cg, members will find a way to conveniently disappear until Xmas or Easter celebration, all of sudden, they pop out of no where. There is just no personal care...

the 12 leaders he nurture are super political, they are children of the members of the church whose been there for a long time. THe 12 ones only care about their own people...if they don't like you, there be a class of people they classify as outcast. This is the kind of behaviour the businessman is nurturing.

Christians tell me that jesus is compassion and caring, why is this businessman building a political party?
*
This shows that you like the other person is hurt as well.

The reason why Jesus teaches us not to judge is to solve this problem.

In our Faith, we look to God for change in society, people and environment.

Our rest is in God, therefore we also learn to impart grace to others.

This cycle can only be solved when we come to God in prayer.
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post May 30 2014, 10:43 AM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 30 2014, 10:26 AM)
i am not even part of that cg...not even a christian. why i bother?

if everything you do is in god, then why bother to go to church? worship your god from your home is more better right? because if you go to church and the people don't bother to change, you are wasting your time isn't it?

yeah i wanna know, what is the point of you guys going to church? you got your tools, you say you can pray..you say you got your grace..you got your bible book. what the church got you don't have? just a building isn't it?
*
Why bother to go to school then? You can also easily get tools to learn by your own right, no need teachers to teach you.

Right? Same concept.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: May 30 2014, 11:15 AM
SUSleonhart88
post May 30 2014, 10:45 AM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 30 2014, 10:26 AM)
i am not even part of that cg...not even a christian. why i bother?

if everything you do is in god, then why bother to go to church? worship your god from your home is more better right? because if you go to church and the people don't bother to change, you are wasting your time isn't it?

yeah i wanna know, what is the point of you guys going to church? you got your tools, you say you can pray..you say you got your grace..you got your bible book. what the church got you don't have? just a building isn't it?
*
I am the one witness going to church I have better personal development. It's same like you work at home and you work at office. Which one will bring you motivation and discipline? Honestly, this year I go to church and seek Jesus, worship him, to get the information I do not know from pastor and got motivation from there to meet other people cherish each other are very wonderful and nice experience. It's same watch movie in cinema and at home, watch at cinema will give wonderful exp.
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QUOTE(leonhart88 @ May 29 2014, 04:17 PM)
may I know what the living that's Christ like?
*
Many things brother. smile.gif

But I think the greatest value are these 2 verse, some of my favorites.

Isaiah 66:2 - Has not my hand made all these things, and so they came into being?" declares the LORD. "These are the ones I look on with favor: those who are humble and contrite in spirit, and who tremble at my word.

Mark 9:35 - Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, "Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all."


Mark 10:

42 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.
43 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,
44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all.
45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”






pehkay
post May 30 2014, 11:18 AM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 30 2014, 10:26 AM)
i am not even part of that cg...not even a christian. why i bother?

if everything you do is in god, then why bother to go to church? worship your god from your home is more better right? because if you go to church and the people don't bother to change, you are wasting your time isn't it?

yeah i wanna know, what is the point of you guys going to church? you got your tools, you say you can pray..you say you got your grace..you got your bible book. what the church got you don't have? just a building isn't it?
*
I think this is a misconception that the both believers and non-belivers have regarding the church, in that, it is a building. Even more or higher, the church is an assembly of Christian gathered together.

Ah something are hard to share if you are not a Christian or have never read the Bible.

In a high sense, the church is an organism of the Triune God. The church is not something outside the Triune God. Neither is the church merely a group of believers who meet together. The church is the constitution of Christ. It is not an organization; it is a constitution with Christ and of Christ.

Consider your physical body. It is not an organization, but a living constitution including many parts. When you go to a dentist, he may fix your teeth by placing a golden element in them. However, that element is not part of your constitution. No matter how pure, valuable, and beautiful it may be, it cannot be constituted into you, because it does not contain your life.

Likewise, the church is not just a group of believers in Christ who have been cleansed of defiling germs, who have been made righteous, clean, and pure, and who regularly gather together. This is not an adequate understanding of the church. The church is the constitution of Christ. It is Christ constituted into the very fiber of our being. The Christ constituted into us is the church. The church is the constitution of the resurrected Christ who embodies the reality of the Triune God.

Thus, the church is a living constitution of the Triune God who has been wrought into our humanity. Yes, we are human beings, but in our humanity we have the constitution of the Triune God, for He has been wrought, constituted, into us. Hence, we are not merely human beings; we are also the church. We are not simply a group of believers meeting together. We are those who have been immersed into the Triune God and who have Christ constituted into our being. This is the church. The church people are not merely those who have been redeemed, cleansed, purified, and adjusted. They are those who have been reconstituted with Christ, who is the very embodiment of the Triune God.

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post May 30 2014, 11:19 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 30 2014, 10:51 AM)
Many things brother.  smile.gif

But I think the greatest value are these 2 verse, some of my favorites.

Isaiah 66:2 - Has not my hand made all these things, and so they came into being?" declares the LORD. "These are the ones I look on with favor: those who are humble and contrite in spirit, and who tremble at my word.

Mark 9:35 - Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, "Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all."
Mark 10:

42 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.
43 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,
44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all.
45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
*
Are the disciples of God must have painful experiences? Just see how pity Paul cs to sacrifice their life for Jesus. Got the verse: Be happy for someone sacrifices their life for the sake of Christ, because they will have place in Christ. Many CHristians I saw left Jesus just because they have saad experience with Jesus. It's not all serve Jesus will be lucky forever and have rich material etc. i just don't like in church only talked about blessings in material wealth rather than the personal development between us, Jesus, and the society.

And if you want to be rich then you must be poor first? If you want to get what you want then you must give all you first? talk is easy, to do it is very challenging.
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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 30 2014, 11:43 AM)
yeah you say that, but now churches are like competing with each other for bigger and bigger buildings !

if you just walk by Jaya 33...it seems that DUMC vs Glad Tidings = bigger means best.

i heard the DUMC no place to park, now wanna build somethingover their car park...crazy.

then the calvary, why build a convention hall...in the middle of nowhere, and use it once a month?

my friend played a video at a church, the pastor criticised the evangelistic ones for following the 3Bs....
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Of course, we don't deny that majority do not meet up the standard. That is beside the point.

Anyway, I was just responding to your question on the church biggrin.gif


Cheers!

This post has been edited by pehkay: May 30 2014, 11:45 AM
TSunknown warrior
post May 30 2014, 11:46 AM

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QUOTE(leonhart88 @ May 30 2014, 11:19 AM)
Are the disciples of God must have painful experiences? Just see how pity Paul cs to sacrifice their life for Jesus. Got the verse: Be happy for someone sacrifices their life for the sake of Christ, because they will have place in Christ. Many CHristians I saw left Jesus just because they have saad experience with Jesus. It's not all serve Jesus will be lucky forever and have rich material etc. i just don't like in church only talked about blessings in material wealth rather than the personal development between us, Jesus, and the society.

And if you want to be rich then you must be poor first? If you want to get what you want then you must give all you first? talk is easy, to do it is very challenging.
*
This is a sensitive subject even for the Christian community.
There are valid trials of life, sufferings and troubles that all Christians will go through as mentioned by scripture.
But We need to understand, under the New Covenant, to correctly divide God's revelation, What comes from God and which come from Satan.

It would be contradiction to say that Jesus came (John 10:10) to give us life and life more abundantly and yet at the same time say God has stricken someone with Sickness or Poverty to teach.
To agree with that is equal to denying What Christ did at the cross. Christ Death at the cross is not only about Eternal life and also Abundant Life here while on Earth.

In the Old Testament, yes God proclaim Judgement on sinners and they bore the punishment, through death, sickness and even curses, that is why you see some difficult words like Good and Evil coming from God. It is true in the old, because there was no proper redemption for the people, only temporal forgiveness through animal sacrifices.

I cannot say there's a hard and fast rule that certain Christian must die for Christ or must suffer in poverty. But I am quite certain that every Christian has the right for a change in life through prayer, simply because God has provided the way out of life challenged and predicaments and He has given us his promises. If you talk about financial lack, God promises providence In Phillipians 4:19. if you say sickness, God Promises healing, whose by his stripes you were healed. (1 Peter 2:24), if you say Curse, God provided redemption from curses (Galatians 3:13).

Many promises for all situations.









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post May 30 2014, 12:09 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 30 2014, 11:39 AM)
got what...some people are home schooled.

i took external online courses...after schooling.

you still haven't say why you go to church? what is the purpose if people there are political? at least the school you gain something...a free education from public school, why not?

why you want to pull in your funds to pay tithes to the church to build super big buildings? why don't you instead pay your 10% tithes to other christian para church org, like world vision, at least they are audited and checked.

i hear got one church whereby they overbudgeted a group of youths just to organize some talk seminar...use the money to go to expensive restaurants every sunday after service to makan dim sum, thai food, etc.

then i got my christian colleague, he so bodoh, why he listen to pastor to must marry christian girl? his church so small only 200, how to find...he 40 still not marry...then one day i heard him say to me this church SIB was organizing a valentine dinner to matchmake guys n girls, they go meet up in some grand dinner at the church...one person pay RM400 !!!!!! I told him not to go, because the church is robbing and overcharging him..THIS IS PURE EXPLOITATION ! luckily he didn't as he was from a smaller church...that church wasn;t his anyways. i recommended him one girl from Kajang, a lukewarm christian, saved him RM400.
*
3 Reasons.

1. To Worship God
2. To serve God.
3. To fellowship

The greatest of all, in my Intention is to seek God. Like what Pehkay have explain, The Church is God's constitution where we the members are called to gathered to worship, to feed on God's word, to learn, to grow and to commune.

You can't do this as individuals at home, that is why Church are instituted.

To me Church politic is not a deterrent, because I already know nobody is perfect in this world.


This post has been edited by unknown warrior: May 30 2014, 12:14 PM
SUSleonhart88
post May 30 2014, 12:55 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 30 2014, 11:45 AM)
good for you.

dunno which church u join...but beware joining certain ministries...if you join for fun, they will whack you...some of the leaders there are political, they want your total dedication.
*
my church is disciples church so have each level from 1-4. We have goals to make all people in this church can be become disciples of God. in level 1 is about the foundation, level 1 consists of 4 foundation. currently I am at level 0. so sad icon_question.gif
SUSleonhart88
post May 30 2014, 01:02 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 30 2014, 12:34 PM)
it is a deterrent because some ministries are racist, they restrict certain people from going in. I heard of africans being restricted.

or if you want to join certain ministries, they are political...they only let their gang in.

how can you feed in mega churches >2000 people? You go there, on sunday, jump up n down among 2000 strangers...sing song..then listen to sermon, you pray, then you go back home...

whats the point? you mind as well watch it by TV live telecast. wasting petrol. you dun even know anyone there.
*
I think you are someone watch movie through laptop than cinema. To go church the feel is just different bro. All can be blessings each other through the pray. If you are at home, it's different. You just said wasting petrol, how about someone gives 10% of his/her income to God?

To marry someone with different religion, just selfish for me. Because with same religion also have problem, how about with different religion? How about the children? God have plan for your friend become single. Better become single than married someone pay dowry then divorce gave 50% of your networth right?
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post May 30 2014, 01:27 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 30 2014, 12:34 PM)
it is a deterrent because some ministries are racist, they restrict certain people from going in. I heard of africans being restricted.

or if you want to join certain ministries, they are political...they only let their gang in.

how can you feed in mega churches >2000 people? You go there, on sunday, jump up n down among 2000 strangers...sing song..then listen to sermon, you pray, then you go back home...

whats the point? you mind as well watch it by TV live telecast. wasting petrol. you dun even know anyone there.
*
I mean it doesn't deter me, because I go there for God and to help others. Not to see who is wealthy, who's doing what, this or that.

I don't go to church for Man but for God. That is my principal. Many people make this mistake and thus end up having up frustration like yours.

God taught me, to be a bigger person, to have a bigger heart when it comes to ministering people in Church,

because his power and grace is there for me to help others.

That way, you'll have God's peace and power in all that you do in Church and Society.

This principal applies to anyone.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: May 30 2014, 01:31 PM
subimpact
post May 30 2014, 01:29 PM

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any events coming?? anyone going for planetshaker workshop this year?
TSunknown warrior
post May 30 2014, 01:32 PM

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QUOTE(subimpact @ May 30 2014, 01:29 PM)
any events coming?? anyone going for planetshaker workshop this year?
*
When ar?
Piros
post May 30 2014, 01:39 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 30 2014, 12:34 PM)
it is a deterrent because some ministries are racist, they restrict certain people from going in. I heard of africans being restricted.

or if you want to join certain ministries, they are political...they only let their gang in.

how can you feed in mega churches >2000 people? You go there, on sunday, jump up n down among 2000 strangers...sing song..then listen to sermon, you pray, then you go back home...

whats the point? you mind as well watch it by TV live telecast. wasting petrol. you dun even know anyone there.
*
The concept of Church was taught by Jesus Himself and re-iterated by Paul on why 'Not forsaking the fellowship' is important. Christians are not solo creatures but are a group of people. For example, in a warfare, nobody goes out alone to fight an army, what more us!? We are in a spiritual warfare! Our adversary is constantly seeking to devour those who falter.

Churches are not perfect, we all know that. But it's God will for us to grow together in that institute. Christ Himself said that 'He will build His church and the gates of Hades will not prevail'. We are to grow in a church, like how a child is suppose to grow in a family.

So your argument is actually going against God's command, that is something that you're doing actively when your aren't attending church.

Now on which church to go to and settle in, should be based on this few criteria generally:

1. Is the truth being preached and the doctrine are sound, are they following God's teaching?

2. Is the church 'small' enough to care for it's members, and if the church is huge, are they some 'cell group' or other similar ministry that have accountability in it's core. Are they able to keep you accountable and able to care for each of the members.

3. Are the members generally 'artificial' or are they 'organic' (growing Christians).

These are some important things that you have to consider, of course there are many churches that doesn't practice this, but these church do exist and you should attend them because Christ wants Christians to grow in a church institute.

This post has been edited by Piros: May 30 2014, 01:41 PM
TSunknown warrior
post May 30 2014, 01:48 PM

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QUOTE(Piros @ May 30 2014, 01:39 PM)
The concept of Church was taught by Jesus Himself and re-iterated by Paul on why 'Not forsaking the fellowship' is important. Christians are not solo creatures but are a group of people. For example, in a warfare, nobody goes out alone to fight an army, what more us!? We are in a spiritual warfare! Our adversary is constantly seeking to devour those who falter.

Churches are not perfect, we all know that. But it's God will for us to grow together in that institute. Christ Himself said that 'He will build His church and the gates of Hades will not prevail'. We are to grow in a church, like how a child is suppose to grow in a family.

So your argument is actually going against God's command, that is something that you're doing actively when your aren't attending church.

Now on which church to go to and settle in, should be based on this few criteria generally:

1. Is the truth being preached and the doctrine are sound, are they following God's teaching?

2. Is the church 'small' enough to care for it's members, and if the church is huge, are they some 'cell group' or other similar ministry that have accountability in it's core. Are they able to keep you accountable and able to care for each of the  members.

3. Are the members generally 'artificial' or are they 'organic' (growing Christians).

These are some important things that you have to consider, of course there are many churches that doesn't practice this, but these church do exist and you should attend them because Christ wants Christians to grow in a church institute.
*
manickam123 is not a Christian, just fyi.
subimpact
post May 30 2014, 02:12 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 30 2014, 01:32 PM)
When ar?
*
oh they moved it to next year

http://www.planetshakers.com/awakening/malaysia/

jan 22-24
Sophiera
post May 30 2014, 03:18 PM

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Apa ini. Don't bring forum rivalries here.
subimpact
post May 30 2014, 03:19 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ May 30 2014, 03:18 PM)
Apa ini. Don't bring forum rivalries here.
*
well said
SUSleonhart88
post May 30 2014, 08:01 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ May 30 2014, 02:21 PM)
i got a close friend, he been a christian for 18 years...he married a christian girl at SIB....everybody thought it was a marriage made in heaven. but ya know what? in spite the girl being christian, she was immature, demanding and materialisitc. The marriage only lasted 3 years.

so marry to christian dun guarantee anything.

now my poor friend cannot remarry also because according to christianity, it will become adultery unless on grounds that his wife have an affair with another man. But they divorced due to irreconciable differences.
*
it depends on the person bro. Being Christian is not like you will not have mistakes right? Even pastors can commit adultery. It's about you with your God.
If you want to have true love then LOVE JESUS bro, he will not betray you.
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post May 30 2014, 11:43 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 30 2014, 03:27 PM)
Not the same Christ Jesus.

The Koran depiction of Jesus is very different from the Bible and lacks historical evidence whereas throughout history,
Non-Christian historian writings and Archaeological findings, matches closer to the Jesus of our Bible records.

I quote that so that you know the Authenticity of our Christ Jesus comes not only from our book.

There are other witnesses.

If the Koran does not provide proper evidence for Jesus, I find no reason to put my Faith there.
*
QUOTE(fryze @ May 30 2014, 07:54 PM)
such as? this debate is an interesting topic. at least to me
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http://www.ucg.org/science/surprising-arch...esus-existence/

http://www.bethinking.org/is-the-bible-rel...e-new-testament

http://www.allaboutarchaeology.org/evidence-for-jesus.htm

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: May 30 2014, 11:45 PM
pehkay
post May 31 2014, 10:01 AM

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Yeah ... I heard that even Bartman, a skeptics tending to atheist, list out 11 sources.


tarvalslain87
post May 31 2014, 01:00 PM

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Due to the Atheist thread issues, mods have decided to move this thread here:

1. moved to serious kopitiam
2. unknown warrior to moderate
3. more than 5 complaints i will kolos and no question asked
4. be matured
TSunknown warrior
post May 31 2014, 04:28 PM

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QUOTE(tarvalslain87 @ May 31 2014, 01:00 PM)
Due to the Atheist thread issues, mods have decided to move this thread here:

1. moved to serious kopitiam
2. unknown warrior to moderate
3. more than 5 complaints i will kolos and no question asked
4. be matured
*
Dear Tarval, in our thread we have never really cause problems for anyone.

If someone from the Atheist have issues, it's should be their issue alone.

I don't know why we have to move, just because they don't like it.




tarvalslain87
post May 31 2014, 04:32 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 31 2014, 04:28 PM)
Dear Tarval, in our thread we have never really cause problems for anyone.

If someone from the Atheist have issues, it's should be their issue alone.

I don't know why we have to move, just because they don't like it.
*
Actually its decided after discussing among the admins and staff. I know there isnt any problems so its good. Keep it that way.

By the way, its nothing related to Atheist thread. Its the final decision that the mod team has concluded with after discussing as the rules of kopitiam is that no religion related threads are suppose to be allowed.
TSunknown warrior
post May 31 2014, 04:35 PM

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QUOTE(tarvalslain87 @ May 31 2014, 04:32 PM)
Actually its decided after discussing among the admins and staff. I know there isnt any problems so its good. Keep it that way.

By the way, its nothing related to Atheist thread. Its the final decision that the mod team has concluded with after discussing as the rules of kopitiam is that no religion related threads are suppose to be allowed.
*
Ah, must have misunderstood what you posted when you say

Due to the Atheist thread issues.

I thought they're having issues with us.

k, no problem.

HoneyDear
post May 31 2014, 04:43 PM

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so ? the thread moves to serious kopitiam ?? hi unknown warrior !
TSunknown warrior
post May 31 2014, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(HoneyDear @ May 31 2014, 04:43 PM)
so ? the thread moves to serious kopitiam ?? hi unknown warrior !
*
prefer to be in kopitiam though,

yo.


tarvalslain87
post May 31 2014, 05:02 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 31 2014, 04:35 PM)
Ah, must have misunderstood what you posted when you say

Due to the Atheist thread issues.

I thought they're having issues with us.

k, no problem.
*
QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 31 2014, 04:45 PM)
prefer to be in kopitiam though,

yo.
*
No problem. Its just to be fair to everyone since kopitiam are full of trolls/racist flame baiters... Serious /k will definitely be a better discussion and sharing place.
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post May 31 2014, 05:03 PM

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QUOTE(beelzebob13 @ May 31 2014, 04:54 PM)
he just made a statement about christians. is he referring to the "old testament"? is the old testaments actually "christian"?
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Hebrews 8:5 - They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: "See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain."


The Old Testament is a pre-revelation leading to the revealing of our Messiah Christ Jesus. All it's history, good and bad.

The verse above mention this key word, copy and shadow of what is in heaven, meaning it was only a temporal way to God, not the real thing.

That is why there is problem in reaching to God using the OT way which is self effort akin to self righteousness, resulting in death.




beelzebob13
post May 31 2014, 05:11 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ May 31 2014, 05:03 PM)
Hebrews 8:5 - They serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: "See to it that you make everything according to the pattern shown you on the mountain."
The Old Testament is a pre-revelation leading to the revealing of our Messiah Christ Jesus. All it's history, good and bad.

The verse above mention this key word, copy and shadow of what is in heaven, meaning it was only a temporal way to God, not the real thing.

That is why there is problem in reaching to God using the OT way which is self effort akin to self righteousness, resulting in death.
*
is funny how my mind work...i see copy and shadow and i think windows server shadow copy service...lol

however, isn't this a bit like interpretation and fitting the shadow of history to the present subject? like Nostradamus' writing..which is even more cryptic allowing for even wider interpretations..to map on to current events..?
pehkay
post May 31 2014, 05:37 PM

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QUOTE(beelzebob13 @ May 31 2014, 05:11 PM)
is funny how my mind work...i see copy and shadow and i think windows server shadow copy service...lol

however, isn't this a bit like interpretation and fitting the shadow of history to the present subject? like Nostradamus' writing..which is even more cryptic allowing for even wider interpretations..to map on to current events..?
*
Lol ... too much time spent on enterprise support aren't you?

It is not like Nostradamus' writing ... not trying to be cryptic for the sake of being cryptic.

What is in the Old Testament is a typology, a set of types. Then what is in the New Testament is a complete fulfillment of that typology concerning God’s purpose.

It's just like a book ... you need pictures [which is like a picture is worth a thousand words] and the definitions, explanation etc.

Thus, the entire Bible, both the Old Testament and the New Testament, is first a picture of God’s purpose and then a full definition and fulfillment of God’s purpose.

On the one hand, if we want to know the Old Testament, we must come to the New Testament definition. In the Old Testament, we can see only the pictures. On the other hand, if we want to know the New Testament, we have to spend the time to look at all these pictures.

So, the Old Testament presents a figurative portrait of God’s eternal purpose spanning thirty-nine books, but it is only in four sections—in types, in history, in poetry, and in prophecy.
beelzebob13
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QUOTE(pehkay @ May 31 2014, 05:37 PM)
Lol ... too much time spent on enterprise support aren't you?

It is not like Nostradamus' writing ... not trying to be cryptic for the sake of being cryptic.

What is in the Old Testament is a typology, a set of types. Then what is in the New Testament is a complete fulfillment of that typology concerning God’s purpose.

It's just like a book ... you need pictures [which is like a picture is worth a thousand words] and the definitions, explanation etc.

Thus, the entire Bible, both the Old Testament and the New Testament, is first a picture of God’s purpose and then a full definition and fulfillment of God’s purpose.

On the one hand, if we want to know the Old Testament, we must come to the New Testament definition. In the Old Testament, we can see only the pictures. On the other hand, if we want to know the New Testament, we have to spend the time to look at all these pictures.

So, the Old Testament presents a figurative portrait of God’s eternal purpose spanning thirty-nine books, but it is only in four sections—in types, in history, in poetry, and in prophecy.
*
.. i mentioned shadow copy because it seems that i, too, see what i "want" to see. because it is in my experience to put the two words together and see something different..

ncys1
post May 31 2014, 06:44 PM

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I've been a Christian for a few years. I was wondering, has anybody here studied on how Christianity integrates with Chinese culture?
Sophiera
post May 31 2014, 07:19 PM

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I found this melody from the strangest source... Rero Rero Rero

It's nice to hear Jewish folk music. Gives you an idea of how they worship back in the day smile.gif
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post May 31 2014, 07:44 PM

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Hi anyone know whether living hope Methodist church in Kota kemuning is open tomorrow since it a satellite church. Thanks
pehkay
post May 31 2014, 08:00 PM

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QUOTE(ncys1 @ May 31 2014, 06:44 PM)
I've been a Christian for a few years. I was wondering, has anybody here studied on how Christianity integrates with Chinese culture?
*
Unless you are thinking of some of the Chinese character's root to Genesis .... I am afraid there isn't any relationship with Chinese culture.

Furthermore, the book of Colossians reveals that Christ is versus culture. 2:8 Paul says, “Beware that no one carries you off as spoil through his philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elements of the world, and not according to Christ.”

Colossians 3:10-11 says, "And have put on the new man, which is being renewed unto full knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, where there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free man, but Christ is all and in all."

In the world the greatest distinction is based on nationality. The Jews and the Greeks are two very distinctive races. So no more nationality.

The second distinction is between free men and slaves. This distinction has also been eliminated in Christ. No more social class.

The third distinction is between male and female. In Christ and in the new man, the male and the female have the same status; there is no distinction between them. The male does not occupy a special position; neither does the female.

The fourth distinction is between barbarians and Scythians. This is a distinction of culture. There are differences in cultural standards, yet Paul told us that the cultural distinctions of barbarians and Scythians alike have been abolished in Christ.

The final distinction is between circumcision and uncircumcision. This distinction has to do with marks of piety in the flesh or rituals. The Jews have the mark of circumcision on their bodies. It shows that they belong to God, that they fear God, and that they reject the flesh. Yet they overemphasize circumcision. Acts 15 speaks of some Jews who tried to compel the Gentiles to be circumcised.

biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

In this new man you have no place. In other words, in this new man the Jew has no place, and neither does the Greek. The American has no place, and neither does the British. The Japanese has no place, and neither does the Chinese. In this new man the natural man has no place. The hating ones have no place. Neither do the loving ones have any place. We all have no place in this man. The quick one has no place. The slow one also has no place. Circumcision refers to the religious ones and uncircumcision to the unreligious ones. The religious ones and the unreligious ones all have no place in this new man. The civilized or the barbarian have no place. The slaves and the freemen have no place because Christ in this new man is all the persons. Christ becomes you and Christ becomes me. Christ becomes every one of us. Christ is all the persons and Christ is in all the persons. In this new man it is not a matter of being humble, kind, gentle, or loving. It is altogether a matter of a person living in us. In this new man it is not a matter of morality, ethics, or goodness. In this new man there is only one person.
ncys1
post May 31 2014, 08:02 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ May 31 2014, 08:00 PM)
Unless you are thinking of some of the Chinese character's root to Genesis .... I am afraid there isn't any relationship with Chinese culture.

Furthermore, the book of Colossians reveals that Christ is versus culture. 2:8 Paul says, “Beware that no one carries you off as spoil through his philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the elements of the world, and not according to Christ.”

Colossians 3:10-11 says, "And have put on the new man, which is being renewed unto full knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, where there cannot be Greek and Jew, circumcision and uncircumcision, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free man, but Christ is all and in all."

In the world the greatest distinction is based on nationality. The Jews and the Greeks are two very distinctive races. So no more nationality.

The second distinction is between free men and slaves. This distinction has also been eliminated in Christ. No more social class.

The third distinction is between male and female. In Christ and in the new man, the male and the female have the same status; there is no distinction between them. The male does not occupy a special position; neither does the female.

The fourth distinction is between barbarians and Scythians. This is a distinction of culture. There are differences in cultural standards, yet Paul told us that the cultural distinctions of barbarians and Scythians alike have been abolished in Christ.

The final distinction is between circumcision and uncircumcision. This distinction has to do with marks of piety in the flesh or rituals. The Jews have the mark of circumcision on their bodies. It shows that they belong to God, that they fear God, and that they reject the flesh. Yet they overemphasize circumcision. Acts 15 speaks of some Jews who tried to compel the Gentiles to be circumcised.

biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

In this new man you have no place. In other words, in this new man the Jew has no place, and neither does the Greek. The American has no place, and neither does the British. The Japanese has no place, and neither does the Chinese. In this new man the natural man has no place. The hating ones have no place. Neither do the loving ones have any place. We all have no place in this man. The quick one has no place. The slow one also has no place. Circumcision refers to the religious ones and uncircumcision to the unreligious ones. The religious ones and the unreligious ones all have no place in this new man. The civilized or the barbarian have no place. The slaves and the freemen have no place because Christ in this new man is all the persons. Christ becomes you and Christ becomes me. Christ becomes every one of us. Christ is all the persons and Christ is in all the persons. In this new man it is not a matter of being humble, kind, gentle, or loving. It is altogether a matter of a person living in us. In this new man it is not a matter of morality, ethics, or goodness. In this new man there is only one person.
*
Wow, that's certainly a very lengthy reply. I was more or less focused on this aspect of the relationship between Christianity and the Chinese. I am aware that among Chinese people, there's this sentiment that "Christianity is for the foreigners and other races. Their God is foreign.", that sort of thing. I was wondering how should we best demonstrate and show that that shouldn't be the case.


pehkay
post May 31 2014, 09:03 PM

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QUOTE(ncys1 @ May 31 2014, 08:02 PM)
Wow, that's certainly a very lengthy reply. I was more or less focused on this aspect of the relationship between Christianity and the Chinese. I am aware that among Chinese people, there's this sentiment that "Christianity is for the foreigners and other races. Their God is foreign.", that sort of thing. I was wondering how should we best demonstrate and show that that shouldn't be the case.
*
I feel that attracting Chinese to Christ by "packaging" Christianity to appeal to their culture is a no no sweat.gif The result today, is churches tend to be of a certain culture, language and practices. This is unfortunately, not a good testimony. The church is a golden lampstand (expressing divine nature of God - gold).

We should only present Christ Jesus as the Attracting One to people. The best way is to personally experience Christ as the attracting factor to gain people in a normal way.

In other words, we hardly live Christ out as the Most Wonderful Person in the universe tongue.gif We only live ourselves. There is hardly any living out of Christ that attracts people to say, I want to live in this way.

So, there is a need to firstly let the Lord has His way in us. He may deal with out "chineseness" that frustrate bring salvation to the Orang Asli, for example.

John 15:2 says, “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes it away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it that it may bear more fruit.”

We must go to the Lord to have a thorough dealing with Him, opening ourselves and presenting ourselves to Him without any covering for the self. We must strip off our cover as much as possible and present ourselves fully on the altar. We should say, "Lord, here I am. Come to enlighten me. Shine upon me. Investigate, examine, test, and expose me. Do everything You can to bring me fully into the light that I may see my real situation." If we do this, we will immediately see several items that we must deal with. Perhaps the first item we need to deal with concerns our wife. We may need to say, "Lord, forgive me. I am constantly wrong in my attitude toward my wife.” Then the Lord will demand that we go to her to make a thorough confession and ask her forgiveness. It seems that this has nothing to do with the preaching of the gospel.

Bit by bit, the Lord transform us inwardly, eventually, Christ is slowly being expressed in our speaking, action, living etc ... people will be attracted.

This is, I feel, is the real preaching of the gospel. It is not a work but a living with the outflow of the divine life within us to bear fruit.

.......


I know this doesn't answer your question. It is also just my fellowship and opinion. You don't have to accept it tongue.gif tongue.gif

But perhaps, you can see that the problem does not really lies outwardly with people, but that we have never given any ground to the Lord.

Sorry, if you post any response, I will revert back tomorrow.

Much grace!

This post has been edited by pehkay: May 31 2014, 09:04 PM
eaglehelang
post Jun 1 2014, 12:25 AM

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QUOTE(ncys1 @ May 31 2014, 08:02 PM)
Wow, that's certainly a very lengthy reply. I was more or less focused on this aspect of the relationship between Christianity and the Chinese. I am aware that among Chinese people, there's this sentiment that "Christianity is for the foreigners and other races. Their God is foreign.", that sort of thing. I was wondering how should we best demonstrate and show that that shouldn't be the case.
*
Short answer: China. The Christians there are very passionate though they are persecuted.
Other, you can google or listen to testimonies by missionaries to China
ncys1
post Jun 1 2014, 07:03 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ May 31 2014, 09:03 PM)
I feel that attracting Chinese to Christ by "packaging" Christianity to appeal to their culture is a no no  sweat.gif The result today, is churches tend to be of a certain culture, language and practices. This is unfortunately, not a good testimony. The church is a golden lampstand (expressing divine nature of God - gold).

We should only present Christ Jesus as the Attracting One to people. The best way is to personally experience Christ as the attracting factor to gain people in a normal way.

In other words, we hardly live Christ out as the Most Wonderful Person in the universe tongue.gif We only live ourselves. There is hardly any living out of Christ that attracts people to say, I want to live in this way.

So, there is a need to firstly let the Lord has His way in us. He may deal with out "chineseness" that frustrate bring salvation to the Orang Asli, for example.

John 15:2 says, “Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes it away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it that it may bear more fruit.”

We must go to the Lord to have a thorough dealing with Him, opening ourselves and presenting ourselves to Him without any covering for the self. We must strip off our cover as much as possible and present ourselves fully on the altar. We should say, "Lord, here I am. Come to enlighten me. Shine upon me. Investigate, examine, test, and expose me. Do everything You can to bring me fully into the light that I may see my real situation." If we do this, we will immediately see several items that we must deal with. Perhaps the first item we need to deal with concerns our wife. We may need to say, "Lord, forgive me. I am constantly wrong in my attitude toward my wife.” Then the Lord will demand that we go to her to make a thorough confession and ask her forgiveness. It seems that this has nothing to do with the preaching of the gospel.

Bit by bit, the Lord transform us inwardly, eventually, Christ is slowly being expressed in our speaking, action, living etc ... people will be attracted.

This is, I feel, is the real preaching of the gospel. It is not a work but a living with the outflow of the divine life within us to bear fruit.

.......
I know this doesn't answer your question. It is also just my fellowship and opinion. You don't have to accept it tongue.gif tongue.gif

But perhaps, you can see that the problem does not really lies outwardly with people, but that we have never given any ground to the Lord.

Sorry, if you post any response, I will revert back tomorrow.

Much grace!
*
Thank you for your lengthy reply. It's given me some food for thought.
Brusky
post Jun 1 2014, 01:24 PM

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Anyone got altar at their home? need some advise how to set it up.

Is there any store in P.J?

Thanks.

pehkay
post Jun 1 2014, 02:06 PM

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Altar?
Brusky
post Jun 1 2014, 03:05 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 1 2014, 02:06 PM)
Altar?
*
This post has been edited by Brusky: Jun 1 2014, 08:13 PM
ncys1
post Jun 1 2014, 05:13 PM

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QUOTE(Brusky @ Jun 1 2014, 03:05 PM)
Like this.

user posted image
*
Forgive me for saying this, but doesn't this look a tad bit like idolatry?
pehkay
post Jun 1 2014, 06:20 PM

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QUOTE(Brusky @ Jun 1 2014, 03:05 PM)
Like this.

user posted image
*
biggrin.gif I guessing you are Catholic.

You are our brother in Christ.

But I am sorry, I can't help you in this matter as I myself do not stand with this matter sweat.gif


TSunknown warrior
post Jun 1 2014, 10:11 PM

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QUOTE(beelzebob13 @ May 31 2014, 05:11 PM)
is funny how my mind work...i see copy and shadow and i think windows server shadow copy service...lol

however, isn't this a bit like interpretation and fitting the shadow of history to the present subject? like Nostradamus' writing..which is even more cryptic allowing for even wider interpretations..to map on to current events..?
*
Shadow copy here is not in reference to an obscure history but referring to the way the Temple of God being built in the Old Testament.

The focus is on Salvation.

Why Christ Jesus came and why the Old Covenant has been replaced.









TSunknown warrior
post Jun 1 2014, 10:15 PM

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QUOTE(Brusky @ Jun 1 2014, 01:24 PM)
Anyone got altar at their home? need some advise how to set it up.

Is there any store in P.J?

Thanks.
*
There's one near Kelana Jaya, there's a Catholic Shop beside St Ignatus Church.

My perspective on this is that, scripturally speaking, there is no need for a physical Alter, what we can setup is Family Altar, where every family member gather in unity to pray as a corporate Family. Works just the same.


Very powerful defence mechanism against the Schemes of the devil.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 1 2014, 10:22 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 1 2014, 10:22 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ May 31 2014, 07:19 PM)


I found this melody from the strangest source... Rero Rero Rero

It's nice to hear Jewish folk music. Gives you an idea of how they worship back in the day smile.gif
*
Hi Sophiera,

I find this song quite relaxing,

Gospel Choir from Oslo.


14-9-2015
post Jun 2 2014, 05:44 AM

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oh! they moved this here......... blink.gif

wonder if this thread might get more exposure under Serious Kopitiam. well......admins decide.........


how ironic to see the Atheist & Agnostics thread sitting side by side tongue.gif

pains me to read the thread over thr & some questions that go through my mind while reading those posts :

- God draws to Him whom he wills
- hardening of the heart
- the chosen ones
- they think we are brainwashed while on the other hand, we think they're not enlightened & lost rclxub.gif

lets discuss...........
Brusky
post Jun 2 2014, 08:46 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 1 2014, 10:15 PM)
There's one near Kelana Jaya, there's a Catholic Shop beside St Ignatus Church.

My perspective on this is that, scripturally speaking, there is no need for a physical Alter, what we can setup is Family Altar, where every family member gather in unity to pray as a corporate Family. Works just the same.
Very powerful defence mechanism against the Schemes of the devil.
*
Thank for the advise.
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 2 2014, 10:34 AM

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QUOTE(14-9-2015 @ Jun 2 2014, 05:44 AM)
oh! they moved this here......... blink.gif

  wonder if this thread might get more exposure under Serious Kopitiam. well......admins decide.........

   
    how ironic to see the Atheist & Agnostics thread sitting side by side  tongue.gif

  pains me to read the thread over thr & some questions that go through my mind while reading those posts :

  - God draws to Him whom he wills
  - hardening of the heart
  - the chosen ones
  - they think we are brainwashed while on the other hand, we think they're not enlightened & lost  rclxub.gif 

    lets discuss...........
*
Galatians 5:1 - It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
Be Free my brother, in Jesus Name. There is no need to read or accept ANYTHING that causes discouragement.

The process of repentance always has to do with the mind. Our Lord says whatever that is pure, whatever that is lovely, we are to keep our minds on these things.
The filth that the world generates, we don't have get muddled in these filth, so avoid them. Avoid all negative connotation type of threads.

Same thing with the lust of the flesh, as Christians if we want to avoid stirring lust, then avoid all hnnnngh threads.

Christ already set us free, so we just remain in that freedom.





TSunknown warrior
post Jun 2 2014, 10:36 AM

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QUOTE(Brusky @ Jun 2 2014, 08:46 AM)
Thank for the advise.
*
most welcome, brother in Christ.
De_Luffy
post Jun 2 2014, 01:59 PM

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since when this thread was moved to serious kopitiam?
pehkay
post Jun 2 2014, 02:22 PM

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May 31 2014, 01:00 PM

subimpact
post Jun 2 2014, 02:25 PM

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no wonder cant find it.... biggrin.gif harrow there bro and sis in christ biggrin.gif
SUSleonhart88
post Jun 2 2014, 09:05 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 2 2014, 07:15 PM)
i know we are just human and we make mistakes. But the thing here is, pastors are now using this "FOCUS ON GOD, NOT ON US"...credo to justify their actions and to continue with structural flaws at church.

Its just another way of saying "we are not bothered to improve ourselves, overcome any weaknesses we encounter whether its a political or organisation problem".

Just like the example of my friend who is a buil;ding committee at a big church. He grown disillusion with the leadership when they pound him with this credo.."we are not perfect, we should not fight, we should be peacemakers, we should focus on god".

then it became very clear the church was abusing funds to build a monolith building that they don't really need. Waste of funds ! Mismanagement. Luckily he left the church to another church, rather than to be a complete zombie follower.

There is another church in cheras, where they got over 50 young adults...but the leader rich businessman there, controls it with an iron fist with his 12 brainwashed followers. People go there, to serve serve and serve - no happiness and joy out of that. If some new guy came and wanted to just have a nice conversation, they just not layan him, want to play politics. The leader there say this is not a social club...of course not lah, but why make the whole place so unpleasant, and they usually will target those they don't like, be unfriendly to force that person out by attrition.

come on lah, even to serve also..cannot laugh meh? i am sure god want you all to enjoy what you doing mah...if like what unknown warrior say he joy in his suffering, why don't bring a bed of nails to go to church to worship...then sit on it, and sing song...more joy meh?

thought that your bible say the house of god is for everybody...and based on what i heard from friends who spoke about jesus helping the lame, poor, the troubled people, isn't christianity is about kindness and care for everybody?

not being wicked and mistreat others that you don't like.

when i was first invited with some people into that church, i knoew something was wrong, i had a hunch...after two meetings i never came back because first me no christian but second they are the most unfriendliest SOB and arrogant ones i ever met.

they speak of pharisees, but they act like one.

and another favourite weapon they like to use is to say that people who criticize people are ones who are "hurt" by them...but for me, i only there for two meetings...how can this be?

they just wanna say stuff like that to slander the people who bring out truths about them. They try to label people who speak up as troublemakers.

its their favourite weapon.

i am not saying and i hope not all churches are like that. But i am sure christians will continue to improve themselves, and not try to use the word to deflect their flaws. I am also not saying all christians are like that..but i have met some really nasty ones.

i met one christian in my office, he thinks he is always right because he is a chrsitian and he thinks god is backing all his actions at all times.

but when i see him make errors in his work, he tend to hide them...not admitting them, use the excuse focus on god not on me...and he thinks he is right all the time.

i heard in his church got one christian girl that like him, she join his cell group when he is the cg leader...btw this guy is 35 years old. i made a joke one day, about this girl..and he straight away bad mouthed her. He hate her so much that he wished she disappeard from the face of the earth. He got his whole cg to ignore her and mistreat her..until she gave up going to cg.

Wtf? He preach good news and profess love for people, but he treat this girl like shiit. Not only that, he think he is very high standard. I make jokes with him about this girl and that girl, he say all ugly. Then he pointed out which girl he liked, when i saw their picture...walao, i knew his standard very high.

but he should look at himself in the mirror...he is bald guy not handsome, he dont' accept other people opinion, to him ah, when he say something he want people to listen to him. When girl like him, he go and reject her badly.

this kind of guy ah, when he meets some girl he likes, very sure karma will come back to him.
*
blame the people, don't blame the God. If we do good deeds we can get good karma right? rather than focus on other people mistakes, why don't we focus on ourselves to make good deeds? Don't be cheated by prophet that pretended good but in fact they make Christ become bad in front of people so people will hate Christ.

Brusky
post Jun 2 2014, 09:07 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 2 2014, 07:15 PM)
i know we are just human and we make mistakes. But the thing here is, pastors are now using this "FOCUS ON GOD, NOT ON US"...credo to justify their actions and to continue with structural flaws at church.

Its just another way of saying "we are not bothered to improve ourselves, overcome any weaknesses we encounter whether its a political or organisation problem".

Just like the example of my friend who is a buil;ding committee at a big church. He grown disillusion with the leadership when they pound him with this credo.."we are not perfect, we should not fight, we should be peacemakers, we should focus on god".

then it became very clear the church was abusing funds to build a monolith building that they don't really need. Waste of funds ! Mismanagement. Luckily he left the church to another church, rather than to be a complete zombie follower.

There is another church in cheras, where they got over 50 young adults...but the leader rich businessman there, controls it with an iron fist with his 12 brainwashed followers. People go there, to serve serve and serve - no happiness and joy out of that. If some new guy came and wanted to just have a nice conversation, they just not layan him, want to play politics. The leader there say this is not a social club...of course not lah, but why make the whole place so unpleasant, and they usually will target those they don't like, be unfriendly to force that person out by attrition.

come on lah, even to serve also..cannot laugh meh? i am sure god want you all to enjoy what you doing mah...if like what unknown warrior say he joy in his suffering, why don't bring a bed of nails to go to church to worship...then sit on it, and sing song...more joy meh?

thought that your bible say the house of god is for everybody...and based on what i heard from friends who spoke about jesus helping the lame, poor, the troubled people, isn't christianity is about kindness and care for everybody?

not being wicked and mistreat others that you don't like.

when i was first invited with some people into that church, i knoew something was wrong, i had a hunch...after two meetings i never came back because first me no christian but second they are the most unfriendliest SOB and arrogant ones i ever met.

they speak of pharisees, but they act like one.

and another favourite weapon they like to use is to say that people who criticize people are ones who are "hurt" by them...but for me, i only there for two meetings...how can this be?

they just wanna say stuff like that to slander the people who bring out truths about them. They try to label people who speak up as troublemakers.

its their favourite weapon.

i am not saying and i hope not all churches are like that. But i am sure christians will continue to improve themselves, and not try to use the word to deflect their flaws. I am also not saying all christians are like that..but i have met some really nasty ones.

i met one christian in my office, he thinks he is always right because he is a chrsitian and he thinks god is backing all his actions at all times.

but when i see him make errors in his work, he tend to hide them...not admitting them, use the excuse focus on god not on me...and he thinks he is right all the time.

i heard in his church got one christian girl that like him, she join his cell group when he is the cg leader...btw this guy is 35 years old. i made a joke one day, about this girl..and he straight away bad mouthed her. He hate her so much that he wished she disappeard from the face of the earth. He got his whole cg to ignore her and mistreat her..until she gave up going to cg.

Wtf? He preach good news and profess love for people, but he treat this girl like shiit. Not only that, he think he is very high standard. I make jokes with him about this girl and that girl, he say all ugly. Then he pointed out which girl he liked, when i saw their picture...walao, i knew his standard very high.

but he should look at himself in the mirror...he is bald guy not handsome, he dont' accept other people opinion, to him ah, when he say something he want people to listen to him. When girl like him, he go and reject her badly.

this kind of guy ah, when he meets some girl he likes, very sure karma will come back to him.
*
You are really annoying!!

pehkay
post Jun 3 2014, 09:54 AM

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I think that we here understand your point, we aren't that stupid not to agree with you with certain conditions of so called "Christians".

But, it is not very constructive nor building for us to hear or read negative things. It doesn't help you nor us. We too have eyes and are not blind. tongue.gif

After all, this is thread is for us Christians to help each other spiritually.

What is the point of your sharing?

Pouring out your frustration? biggrin.gif Are you seeking <something> from us?

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 3 2014, 09:57 AM
SUSleonhart88
post Jun 3 2014, 02:29 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 3 2014, 09:38 AM)
yeah that is the point. When you say "we focus on ourselves to make good deeds to close ranks over those who made the mistakes and not admit their mistakes"...that should be the spirit.

that would be the efforts that the christiian want to portray to show to the non christians that they are serious in improving ties and structural defects in their church. When one leader makes serious mistakes, others will close ranks and improve on that area.

i mean i always hear the christians complain about lack of religious freedom and about other pressure groups, but seriously when they look into their own churches, the way they handle things, its no different from those pressure groups.

when somebody brings up an issue, suddenly the person in the church becomes ex communicated and labeled as a troublemaker. no different then how those pressure groups are blaming christians for their problems.

christians always complain about persecution but at the same time laud persecution as a way to improve themselves under pressure...always using the term "refined by fire". But when persecution come, they complain complain, when i go to gym, i always notice the church near my gym, the members driving mercedes, bentleys and bmws...into the car park, enjoying such rich blessings. Wow, these days the christians of today enjoy such excellent lifes (in Malaysia) while their counterparts brethren in Iraq, Nigeria, Sudan, India (Dalits) face daily persecutions. Maybe the churches in msia has become too complacent and too wealthy to notice any self problem until they got too much free time that they start to play politics in their own backyard.

as a result we meet many over defensive and lack of self esteem christians that a little bit of comment (like Brusky)...they try to squeeze out the person and label him/her as troublemaker rather than make serious changes.

i thought the christians always laud when kena slap on the right cheek, offer the left side...but nowadays, you accidentaly say something, tthe christians come back in a tank to attack back...

gosh, that is a blast from the time when christians say their jesus used to help the poor, lame and handicap.

nowadays, the christians laugh at people with problems. Yeah, i have a pastor friend...when i go eat KFC with him, he starts to make jokes about those couples at the church that he is counselling. Bloody hell, no privacy at all ! He vividly even joke about how he counsel a couple to hug and kiss each other to make peace...when they were on the verge of divorce.
*
Actually the rich Christian(maybe not all) give 10% of their income each month for the tenth. When see the financial report in my church which is published monthly, the income is about rm300-500k/month. Their bulding assets closely about rm 100 million. However, they do not forget to give money to poor people, build 10,000 churches, and give to widow. Every month rm30-150k is given to poor people, they will buy foods to them. The rm 30-150k can give to 30-1000 households. It's our church rule too to give one tenth to poor people. If you see in bible if you give one, you will get more blessings even thousands.Our church last time only can accommodate 30 people back in 1990s.
SUSleonhart88
post Jun 3 2014, 07:06 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 3 2014, 04:03 PM)
of course all church give to charity and to their mission people lah. but there is risk of abuse of funds because this is not audited.

like city harvest, i am very sure they give a lot to charity but recent case, they go and channel 25 mil for singing career.

who knows? there could have been more funds channeled elsewhere, we don't really know.

just like one church i heard, the committee go and arrange a youth camp, church gave them like 10k up front, then everytime got meeting, they go eat dim sum in jaya33...every weekend...charge out as food allowance...

ya think this is practical or not?

sure thing people are volunteering but ya think they should be using hard earn church contributi0on to go out makan good food?
*
our pastor told us he often go starbucks to get idea and refresh mind whereas myself go library.
Yes, I cannot deny some churches like that and their pastors' children go univ to study in US. However, we can see there are poor pastors too.
But do you think we are Christian cannot enjoy good food? In the bible stated God doesn't like lazy man so he advises us to work hard then enjoy ourselves from what we have earned. Enjoy here is a moderate and legally.
pehkay
post Jun 4 2014, 09:36 AM

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Sharing from Deuteronomy 15 ...

Deuteronomy 15 say that the firstborn ox should not be put to work and the firstborn sheep should not be shorn; instead, they should be eaten (vv. 19-20).

What does this mean according to typology? When many Christians and non-Christians talk about Christ, they expect that Christ will either till the ground or be shorn. No one thinks of eating Christ.

To ask Christ to till the ground means to ask Him to labor on your behalf, to do things for you. Did you know that every day you want the Lord Jesus to till the ground for you? You do not have a way to deal with your wife, so you pray, "Lord, You know the kind of wife You have given me; I am helpless. Please deal with her." This is to ask the Lord Jesus to till the ground for you. Some sisters may pray, "Lord, You know how stubborn my husband is. Lord, You have to deal with him; otherwise, I will not be able to bear it any longer." When you ask the Lord to do things for you in this way, you are asking Him to till the ground as an ox.

What is the meaning of shearing the sheep of the wool? Wool is used to make clothing. You may want Christ to be your outward adornment; you try to imitate Christ outwardly. It is rare to find Christians who have escaped these two things. Those Christians who do not love the Lord simply ignore Him. However, Christians who love the Lord want Him either to till the ground or to be shorn.

The Bible does not tell us to till the ground but to eat. Do not ask Christ to do anything for you; rather, eat Christ into you. Do not pray and ask Christ to change your wife; instead, eat Christ into you and live by Him! Your wife may not change a bit; yet to you, to live is Christ. Do not ask the Lord to give your husband a beating; the Lord will never answer this kind of prayer. The Lord will say, "I will use My staff as a whip to beat you instead." You have to eat the Lord. When you eat the Lord, any mistreatment from your husband will be sweet to you. You do not need the Lord to till the ground; neither do you need to shear Him. You simply need to eat Him.

It seems that the Lord is saying, "I am the bread of life. He who eats Me shall live because of Me. Do not expect Me to do anything for you or expect Me to be your outward adornment. You have to understand that I come to give you life and to give it more abundantly. I want to enter into you to be your life and your everything. As long as I live in you, you should not care about the outward circumstances. It is good if your wife has changed; it is even better if she has not changed. It is good to have a submissive wife; it is even better to have an unsubmissive wife. A warm and tender husband is lovely, of course; however, a rough and tough husband is even lovelier."

Therefore, what matters today is to have life within us, not to implore Christ to do anything for us. As long as Christ enters into us to be our life and our supply, we can do the things that others cannot do, we can endure the sufferings that others cannot endure, and we can bear the burdens that others cannot bear. Do not till the ground or shear the sheep. Instead, eat the Lord! Do not expect Him to be your Prophet or your King. He came to be the bread of life to you. Therefore, eat Him!

...
SUSleonhart88
post Jun 4 2014, 09:00 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 4 2014, 06:47 PM)
of course pastors are human too, so they should be paid ok ok lar.

but in singapore some churches pay like $150,000 per year.

rich members sometime also very show off. Like this small church i told you, the rich businessman in auto spare part.. at first he stay in average house in cheras then he bought one giant 6 storey high house as big as football field.....with infinity swimming pool, invited all the youth to come like dam show off....now his house even bigger than the church.

what a waste of money..his family only 4 people plus his mother in law. Now his only son went to study overseas, big house for 3 people.

enjoy? more like showing off.

some more he dare to tell the youth to be humble and not to greed for money. What does he know about that? he born with silver spoon...never know the meaning of being poor.
*
you guys should directly shoot him telling how come you live in luxury while others are starved to have enough food. then what will be his answer? if just be quiet and rant in /k here then what for?
SUSleonhart88
post Jun 4 2014, 11:45 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 4 2014, 10:45 PM)
he got his cohorts in his ministry. you think this guy is stupid? as I said he is surrounded by his supporters.

Those youths are brought up by their parents who are members of the church. The only close friends they got are part of that youth group, they won't be stupid to cross hairs with that businessman who is their leader. Say one word against him, they be excommunicated.

its like you going to a perkasa convention alone, and telling them that DAP are better than them.

so for me, when I see a church ministry with a bunch of ego jerks, best is I butt out. I think there is a proverb in your bible right? Don't throw your pearls at swines...they just trample all over it. So if I just speak out, they just be swines not listening to me and trample over my words.

But there are those who cross hairs with the businessman, he use attrition such as boycott, social outcast, ignore and put that person out of the activities list. He can do it because he got a core group of leaders to help him. I seen one Christian guy from Acts church just come over because he is the boyfriend of one of th church member, he was left sitting down doing nothing,nobody talk to him for the whole duration of the meeting. After a few meetings, he did not turn up, the businessman's tactic worked.

you think this is a rant?

you initially disagreed that there are the third type of super ego Christians, I merely set out to you examples. You forgot the initial topic of debate is it?
*
I will take you as rant since you just give negative without solving the problem. if you butt out then why do you still give a fcuk here?
Actually we got example Nelson Mandela, if nelson mandela is just like you I think apartheid will be still existed till today right?
My suggestion: Join the church then shoot them who talk non sense about living modest money is evil but give example of living luxury without caring poor people. You will be a hero rather than ranting here bro.
SUSleonhart88
post Jun 5 2014, 12:44 AM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 4 2014, 11:59 PM)
eh, did you exercise your brains today? you telling me to join their church to argue with them when I not Christian. Is like you join Perkasa to tell them to become Christians.

there is nothing in common I have with them.

Why I want to be a hero to people that I have nothing to common with and people who are sub human to me? I refuse to teach them about my values on humanity because I felt these kind of sub humans don't merit my help. I will only keep my knowledge to benefit more worthy mankind.

Again you get it all wrong. I am telling you of the third type of Christian. Its negative to you because you're being defensive. Now you are using fark words...why trying to show Christian machoness? Yeah I get that a lot...got one Christian guy he always invite me to sell insurance and force his advice down my throat...then when I disagree he start showing his true colors by using bad words. Sheesh, first they put up a shield of niceness but when they get frustrated..they try to act macho by saying the four letter word but they fumble...because it sounded like they never said it for years.

its a rant to you because you're getting defensive.
*
then will you call yourself offensive if I am defensive? I think I just waste time to reply someone who is bold in nature. I think the good part to tell is 'mind your own business'.In bold part, If you don't care about Christians then why do you still post here? if you can post in this thread title 'LYN Christian Fellowship' although you are not Christian, you can join church too although you are not Christian. I saw many hijab girls went church last time.

This post has been edited by leonhart88: Jun 5 2014, 12:46 AM
Sophiera
post Jun 5 2014, 03:19 AM

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Oh this thread got moved to Serious kopitiam
pehkay
post Jun 5 2014, 09:06 AM

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A GRAIN OF WHEAT ABIDING ALONE UNLESS IT FALLS INTO THE GROUND AND DIES

The Lord Jesus said, "Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit" (John 12:24). This word applies not only to the Lord Jesus but also to us. Today we have the Lord’s life in us, so we are the many grains of wheat. Yet we are unable to multiply, unable to bear much fruit, and unable to produce many grains because we have not been broken through death.

Many of us are very stable, steady, and whole. Many times, however, our stability, steadiness, and wholeness are our problem. For example, although we may have been saved for years, we may not have any scars or any evidence of the work of the cross on us, and our being may still be intact, whole, steady, and unchanged. The only difference may be that before we were saved, we were wild, careless, and misbehaving. After being saved, however, we are no longer wild and careless but rather well behaved. This is merely a change in behavior.

There are two kinds of change that can occur in a Christian. One is a change in outward conduct, and the other is a change in the inward life. A change in outward behavior means that in the past you did whatever you liked, acting loosely and without any restraint. But now, since you have been saved, you feel that your former conduct would not befit a Christian and therefore you need to be more cautious. However, this is merely an outward change; your inner being is still the same. You are still secure and firm, stable and steady, whole and intact. You are still your original person. Our problem is not in our outward behavior but in our disposition, our natural life, and our old self.


TSunknown warrior
post Jun 5 2014, 11:27 AM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 2 2014, 07:15 PM)
i know we are just human and we make mistakes. But the thing here is, pastors are now using this "FOCUS ON GOD, NOT ON US"...credo to justify their actions and to continue with structural flaws at church.

Its just another way of saying "we are not bothered to improve ourselves, overcome any weaknesses we encounter whether its a political or organisation problem".

Just like the example of my friend who is a buil;ding committee at a big church. He grown disillusion with the leadership when they pound him with this credo.."we are not perfect, we should not fight, we should be peacemakers, we should focus on god".

then it became very clear the church was abusing funds to build a monolith building that they don't really need. Waste of funds ! Mismanagement. Luckily he left the church to another church, rather than to be a complete zombie follower.

There is another church in cheras, where they got over 50 young adults...but the leader rich businessman there, controls it with an iron fist with his 12 brainwashed followers. People go there, to serve serve and serve - no happiness and joy out of that. If some new guy came and wanted to just have a nice conversation, they just not layan him, want to play politics. The leader there say this is not a social club...of course not lah, but why make the whole place so unpleasant, and they usually will target those they don't like, be unfriendly to force that person out by attrition.

come on lah, even to serve also..cannot laugh meh? i am sure god want you all to enjoy what you doing mah...if like what unknown warrior say he joy in his suffering, why don't bring a bed of nails to go to church to worship...then sit on it, and sing song...more joy meh?

thought that your bible say the house of god is for everybody...and based on what i heard from friends who spoke about jesus helping the lame, poor, the troubled people, isn't christianity is about kindness and care for everybody?

not being wicked and mistreat others that you don't like.

when i was first invited with some people into that church, i knoew something was wrong, i had a hunch...after two meetings i never came back because first me no christian but second they are the most unfriendliest SOB and arrogant ones i ever met.

they speak of pharisees, but they act like one.

and another favourite weapon they like to use is to say that people who criticize people are ones who are "hurt" by them...but for me, i only there for two meetings...how can this be?

they just wanna say stuff like that to slander the people who bring out truths about them. They try to label people who speak up as troublemakers.

its their favourite weapon.

i am not saying and i hope not all churches are like that. But i am sure christians will continue to improve themselves, and not try to use the word to deflect their flaws. I am also not saying all christians are like that..but i have met some really nasty ones.

i met one christian in my office, he thinks he is always right because he is a chrsitian and he thinks god is backing all his actions at all times.

but when i see him make errors in his work, he tend to hide them...not admitting them, use the excuse focus on god not on me...and he thinks he is right all the time.

i heard in his church got one christian girl that like him, she join his cell group when he is the cg leader...btw this guy is 35 years old. i made a joke one day, about this girl..and he straight away bad mouthed her. He hate her so much that he wished she disappeard from the face of the earth. He got his whole cg to ignore her and mistreat her..until she gave up going to cg.

Wtf? He preach good news and profess love for people, but he treat this girl like shiit. Not only that, he think he is very high standard. I make jokes with him about this girl and that girl, he say all ugly. Then he pointed out which girl he liked, when i saw their picture...walao, i knew his standard very high.

but he should look at himself in the mirror...he is bald guy not handsome, he dont' accept other people opinion, to him ah, when he say something he want people to listen to him. When girl like him, he go and reject her badly.

this kind of guy ah, when he meets some girl he likes, very sure karma will come back to him.
*
QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 3 2014, 09:38 AM)
yeah that is the point. When you say "we focus on ourselves to make good deeds to close ranks over those who made the mistakes and not admit their mistakes"...that should be the spirit.

that would be the efforts that the christiian want to portray to show to the non christians that they are serious in improving ties and structural defects in their church. When one leader makes serious mistakes, others will close ranks and improve on that area.

i mean i always hear the christians complain about lack of religious freedom and about other pressure groups, but seriously when they look into their own churches, the way they handle things, its no different from those pressure groups.

when somebody brings up an issue, suddenly the person in the church becomes ex communicated and labeled as a troublemaker. no different then how those pressure groups are blaming christians for their problems.

christians always complain about persecution but at the same time laud persecution as a way to improve themselves under pressure...always using the term "refined by fire". But when persecution come, they complain complain, when i go to gym, i always notice the church near my gym, the members driving mercedes, bentleys and bmws...into the car park, enjoying such rich blessings. Wow, these days the christians of today enjoy such excellent lifes (in Malaysia) while their counterparts brethren in Iraq, Nigeria, Sudan, India (Dalits) face daily persecutions. Maybe the churches in msia has become too complacent and too wealthy to notice any self problem until they got too much free time that they start to play politics in their own backyard.

as a result we meet many over defensive and lack of self esteem christians that a little bit of comment (like Brusky)...they try to squeeze out the person and label him/her as troublemaker rather than make serious changes.

i thought the christians always laud when kena slap on the right cheek, offer the left side...but nowadays, you accidentaly say something, tthe christians come back in a tank to attack back...

gosh, that is a blast from the time when christians say their jesus used to help the poor, lame and handicap.

nowadays, the christians laugh at people with problems. Yeah, i have a pastor friend...when i go eat KFC with him, he starts to make jokes about those couples at the church that he is counselling. Bloody hell, no privacy at all ! He vividly even joke about how he counsel a couple to hug and kiss each other to make peace...when they were on the verge of divorce.
*
QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 3 2014, 04:03 PM)
of course all church give to charity and to their mission people lah. but there is risk of abuse of funds because this is not audited.

like city harvest, i am very sure they give a lot to charity but recent case, they go and channel 25 mil for singing career.

who knows? there could have been more funds channeled elsewhere, we don't really know.

just like one church i heard, the committee go and arrange a youth camp, church gave them like 10k up front, then everytime got meeting, they go eat dim sum in jaya33...every weekend...charge out as food allowance...

ya think this is practical or not?

sure thing people are volunteering but ya think they should be using hard earn church contributi0on to go out makan good food?
*
QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 4 2014, 06:47 PM)
of course pastors are human too, so they should be paid ok ok lar.

but in singapore some churches pay like $150,000 per year.

rich members sometime also very show off. Like this small church i told you, the rich businessman in auto spare part.. at first he stay in average house in cheras then he bought one giant 6 storey high house as big as football field.....with infinity swimming pool, invited all the youth to come like dam show off....now his house even bigger than the church.

what a waste of money..his family only 4 people plus his mother in law. Now his only son went to study overseas, big house for 3 people.

enjoy? more like showing off.

some more he dare to tell the youth to be humble and not to greed for money. What does he know about that? he born with silver spoon...never know the meaning of being poor.
*
QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 4 2014, 10:45 PM)
he got his cohorts in his ministry. you think this guy is stupid? as I said he is surrounded by his supporters.

Those youths are brought up by their parents who are members of the church. The only close friends they got are part of that youth group, they won't be stupid to cross hairs with that businessman who is their leader. Say one word against him, they be excommunicated.

its like you going to a perkasa convention alone, and telling them that DAP are better than them.

so for me, when I see a church ministry with a bunch of ego jerks, best is I butt out. I think there is a proverb in your bible right? Don't throw your pearls at swines...they just trample all over it. So if I just speak out, they just be swines not listening to me and trample over my words.

But there are those who cross hairs with the businessman, he use attrition such as boycott, social outcast, ignore and put that person out of the activities list. He can do it because he got a core group of leaders to help him. I seen one Christian guy from Acts church just come over because he is the boyfriend of one of th church member, he was left sitting down doing nothing,nobody talk to him for the whole duration of the meeting. After a few meetings, he did not turn up, the businessman's tactic worked.

you think this is a rant?

you initially disagreed that there are the third type of super ego Christians, I merely set out to you examples. You forgot the initial topic of debate is it?
*
QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 4 2014, 11:59 PM)
eh, did you exercise your brains today? you telling me to join their church to argue with them when I not Christian. Is like you join Perkasa to tell them to become Christians.

there is nothing in common I have with them.

Why I want to be a hero to people that I have nothing to common with and people who are sub human to me? I refuse to teach them about my values on humanity because I felt these kind of sub humans don't merit my help. I will only keep my knowledge to benefit more worthy mankind.

Again you get it all wrong. I am telling you of the third type of Christian. Its negative to you because you're being defensive. Now you are using fark words...why trying to show Christian machoness? Yeah I get that a lot...got one Christian guy he always invite me to sell insurance and force his advice down my throat...then when I disagree he start showing his true colors by using bad words. Sheesh, first they put up a shield of niceness but when they get frustrated..they try to act macho by saying the four letter word but they fumble...because it sounded like they never said it for years.

its a rant to you because you're getting defensive.
*
I hear what you're saying but
don't you think if you expect others to buck up, you should at least try to be on a helpful side rather than disparaging, making it worse?



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post Jun 5 2014, 01:04 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 5 2014, 09:06 AM)
A GRAIN OF WHEAT ABIDING ALONE UNLESS IT FALLS INTO THE GROUND AND DIES

The Lord Jesus said, "Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit" (John 12:24). This word applies not only to the Lord Jesus but also to us. Today we have the Lord’s life in us, so we are the many grains of wheat. Yet we are unable to multiply, unable to bear much fruit, and unable to produce many grains because we have not been broken through death.

Many of us are very stable, steady, and whole. Many times, however, our stability, steadiness, and wholeness are our problem. For example, although we may have been saved for years, we may not have any scars or any evidence of the work of the cross on us, and our being may still be intact, whole, steady, and unchanged. The only difference may be that before we were saved, we were wild, careless, and misbehaving. After being saved, however, we are no longer wild and careless but rather well behaved. This is merely a change in behavior.

There are two kinds of change that can occur in a Christian. One is a change in outward conduct, and the other is a change in the inward life. A change in outward behavior means that in the past you did whatever you liked, acting loosely and without any restraint. But now, since you have been saved, you feel that your former conduct would not befit a Christian and therefore you need to be more cautious. However, this is merely an outward change; your inner being is still the same. You are still secure and firm, stable and steady, whole and intact. You are still your original person. Our problem is not in our outward behavior but in our disposition, our natural life, and our old self.
*
yeah.......sometimes we are too comfy in our comfort zone & the Lord will shake us up, so that we may lean on him more.

Spiritual growth comes in tiny spurts at times & giant leaps at other times. Trials & tribulations always make our faith stronger.
subimpact
post Jun 5 2014, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 5 2014, 03:19 AM)
Oh this thread got moved to Serious kopitiam
*
arlo how are you ?
Sophiera
post Jun 5 2014, 06:20 PM

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You think you're helping, but you're not. We all pretty much know about jerks. What people need is encouragement that not everyone is a jerk.
Sophiera
post Jun 5 2014, 06:23 PM

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And you know what? Super saintly people who shine like the sun DO exist! Except the jerkasses hog all the attention and therefore leave people in disillusion. All the way back in Paul's day also got this problem.

The church is like the ark. The ark stinks with bajillion animals. Yet the ark is the only safe place from the storm and flood.
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 5 2014, 06:51 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 5 2014, 06:06 PM)
the only way for those jerks to buck up is to reduce their recruitment.

when people are aware which church are church of assssholes...they won't go there. then the leaders will start paying attention to the "spiritual" needs of their congregation than their own pockets or their own ego pride.

exactly what i am doing..i am creating awareness here to would be christians, new christians and non christians.

how can you help ego jerks? its like a robber want to rob a bank and u know about it...so you provide transport to the robber to rob bank? or course not...you tell everybody about the robber lah...or report to police...moral police.

then leonhart88 tell me to voice out to the robbers not to rob a bank...what is the point?

i go to the robbers and tell them..."hey don't rob the bank"...next thing they will show me their gun and tembak. Like throw pearls at swines that don't appreciate.
*
Actually you're creating resentment more than awareness but this is not how the kingdom of God works.

There are principals to apply when it comes to God's Church it's not an institution void of God's involvement.

What you're doing is using Man's way which really does nothing but cause further damages instead of solving it.

God's Kingdom follows suit God's way. Something you may not be ready to hear.

Besides, we don't really know if your story is actually propagated in a complete true view. Could be one sided for all we know.







This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 5 2014, 07:20 PM
SUSleonhart88
post Jun 5 2014, 11:11 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 5 2014, 06:02 PM)
i saw a lot of new chrisitans wanting to look for church come here to ask about this church or that.

and non christians hoping for a new life, this forum probably give them encouragement to join church.

my message here is to warn them that the grass is not greenier on the other side. I want to prevent already hurt people who were abused, drug addicts, former prostitutes, destitutely poor from getting further hurt. I am in better position so its my social obligation to help. And don't teach me about giving aid, i know more than that than you. I've participated in buddhist societies to help the poor in Klang Bus Station area...i also help christians before in their aid to provide to Myanmmar refugees. I've gone to org asli area to assist christians to provide tution and edu aid even though i not chrsitian.

sometimes the church or hollywood tend to portray church going people as perfect, honest, friendly and give new hope in the newcomer.

but i am trying to tell them that the people at the church are not perfect and there are politics there.

i care about the people who are about to hurt themselves thinking they will find new life in the church people...

i am not saying that people won't find new life in your god, they probably will. but if they expecting encouragement from the church leaders, not everybody is perfect. well maybe there are good guys in the church but there are bad guys too.

yes i am offensive at least i am honest.

i used to know a lot of frens at school who are suicidal and have pre marital pregnancies go to church ot seek new life...but i am trying to forewarn them that the people in some of the churches are political.

but my message also have a good side, i am telling them to go to a better church...if they see the first signs of a church of asssholes...please leave...i am very sure there are nice churches like the one in gombak called metro tab church...i met a lot of nice people from there.
*
that's good for you bro. lucky Jesus is kind to us still want to forgives us although we commit many sins.. I myself have lots of sins. I am not perfect. Many Christians just go church and read bible but never apply them to their life. It's very sad. We do not know what happen next, this world is near ending, do you believe? Are you prepared for world end? I am myself not prepared yet, still have many sins cry.gif although many pastors said as long as we believe in Jesus so we do not need to be afraid.
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post Jun 6 2014, 06:34 AM

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QUOTE(leonhart88 @ Jun 5 2014, 11:11 PM)
that's good for you bro. lucky Jesus is kind to us still want to forgives us although we commit many sins.. I myself have lots of sins. I am not perfect. Many Christians just go church and read bible but never apply them to their life. It's very sad. We do not know what happen next, this world is near ending, do you believe? Are you prepared for world end? I am myself not prepared yet, still have many sins  cry.gif  although many pastors said as long as we believe in Jesus so we do not need to be afraid.
*
Dear Leonhart88,

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. —1 John 1:9

Confession and forgiveness should be a continuous experience. If you find yourself sinning a lot, perhaps you should pray more. Have a closer walk with God. Make prayer a habit. Bring everything before God. Ask God to search your heart for every hidden thing to be revealed. The Holy Spirit speaks & convicts when we listen.

As long as we still live in the flesh, we will continue to struggle with sin. The world that we live in today is more sensuous & materialistic. Temptation is at every corner. I perfectly understand your struggles. Therefore, we must always guard our hearts in chasing after the things of the world.

Be sober, be vigilant, because your adversary the devil walketh about as a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour - 1 Peter 5:8

For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever. - 1 John 2:16 - 17

It's true that the church age will be ending soon. There is still time for us to get our spiritual house in order. Our heavenly father is merciful & always warns his children. There are signs & wonders in the heavens. The 1st of the TETRAD BLOOD MOONS have already passed us by in April 2014.
We are very near to the beginning of the tribulation.
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 6 2014, 10:25 AM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 10:04 AM)
you sure or not,  thought your bible says somewhere...your great apostle james say something like, if you love your jesus, you would obey him, therefore if you still knowingly sin, you like again put your jesus on the cross over and over again. You willing to put your lord on the nail cross again?

also confession has to be extremely genuine...after you confess then you sin again...what is the point? Hey i not saying i perfect lah, even i admit i am very sinful person as well....but when pastors say you believe you are safe...they like saying so wat? continue sinning lah...you still be saved... then there is a misconception on confession, must you go to altar call to make confession? then where is in your bible say anything about getting slain in altar call? me not saying that altar call is wrong...but fact is you can make your confession via prayer right?

therefore, to disobey appear to show that the believer not really believe because believer still knowingly sin, knowingly sin show that the believer not so believe. believer who keep on disobeying, he show any love for his jesus or not? you ask yourself lah.

the pastors that teach these stuff, just want more people to join their congregation bigger and bigger, they only interested in the big church, big congregation. Quantity not quality..

thats why i heard from my same friend who works full time from a mega church, that his church of 4000 members, only 60% registered in cell group, registered as members even less.

People who have sin, we non christians are ok with as long as the person is humble and friendly thats important. The thing i don't like about certain christians, the third quality i spoke to you about is that these people tend to be very controlling type and don't accept that they made a mistake.
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I can see you are a hurt individual and the way you are pour out all your "frustration" seems to have some sort of motives.

but that doesn't validate your story anyway. Just saying.

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post Jun 6 2014, 10:28 AM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 10:16 AM)
for you is one sided of course. Yours also one sided what...

but my side tend to be a third party independent view which would attract a lot of attention from non christians who thinks church give them new hope.

to join an abusive church is even more damaging. i am telling the non christians out there, once you join a church after a few months still feeling disillusion, butt out...there are so many churches out there you can join and different views.

what man's way? i am saying the principal...lu tak suka keluar lah...meaning to say...don't mingle in a church that doesn't support your growth..get out...

isn't that what happen to your spiritual ancestor jacob when israel was suffering from famine..that he and his family had to leave the promise land to go to egypt to rejoin his long lost son...?

isn't it god's way too to get out when situation there is untenable?
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I didn't tell any story like you do.

So I have no such motives.






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post Jun 6 2014, 10:29 AM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 10:16 AM)
what man's way? i am saying the principal...lu tak suka keluar lah...meaning to say...don't mingle in a church that doesn't support your growth..get out...

isn't that what happen to your spiritual ancestor jacob when israel was suffering from famine..that he and his family had to leave the promise land to go to egypt to rejoin his long lost son...?

isn't it god's way too to get out when situation there is untenable?
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The difference is, Jacob was lead by God, you are not in this sense.


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post Jun 6 2014, 10:31 AM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 10:04 AM)
you sure or not,  thought your bible says somewhere...your great apostle james say something like, if you love your jesus, you would obey him, therefore if you still knowingly sin, you like again put your jesus on the cross over and over again. You willing to put your lord on the nail cross again?

also confession has to be extremely genuine...after you confess then you sin again...what is the point? Hey i not saying i perfect lah, even i admit i am very sinful person as well....but when pastors say you believe you are safe...they like saying so wat? continue sinning lah...you still be saved... then there is a misconception on confession, must you go to altar call to make confession? then where is in your bible say anything about getting slain in altar call? me not saying that altar call is wrong...but fact is you can make your confession via prayer right?

therefore, to disobey appear to show that the believer not really believe because believer still knowingly sin, knowingly sin show that the believer not so believe. believer who keep on disobeying, he show any love for his jesus or not? you ask yourself lah.
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That is not repentance.


QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 10:04 AM)
the pastors that teach these stuff, just want more people to join their congregation bigger and bigger, they only interested in the big church, big congregation. Quantity not quality..
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That is not true.
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post Jun 6 2014, 10:35 AM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 5 2014, 06:02 PM)
i saw a lot of new chrisitans wanting to look for church come here to ask about this church or that.

and non christians hoping for a new life, this forum probably give them encouragement to join church.

my message here is to warn them that the grass is not greenier on the other side. I want to prevent already hurt people who were abused, drug addicts, former prostitutes, destitutely poor from getting further hurt. I am in better position so its my social obligation to help. And don't teach me about giving aid, i know more than that than you. I've participated in buddhist societies to help the poor in Klang Bus Station area...i also help christians before in their aid to provide to Myanmmar refugees. I've gone to org asli area to assist christians to provide tution and edu aid even though i not chrsitian.

sometimes the church or hollywood tend to portray church going people as perfect, honest, friendly and give new hope in the newcomer.

but i am trying to tell them that the people at the church are not perfect and there are politics there.

i care about the people who are about to hurt themselves thinking they will find new life in the church people...

i am not saying that people won't find new life in your god, they probably will. but if they expecting encouragement from the church leaders, not everybody is perfect. well maybe there are good guys in the church but there are bad guys too.

yes i am offensive at least i am honest.

i used to know a lot of frens at school who are suicidal and have pre marital pregnancies go to church ot seek new life...but i am trying to forewarn them that the people in some of the churches are political.

but my message also have a good side, i am telling them to go to a better church...if they see the first signs of a church of asssholes...please leave...i am very sure there are nice churches like the one in gombak called metro tab church...i met a lot of nice people from there.
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All of us help others in one way or another. I do and I don't go around boasting about it either using as a leverage like how you do here.

On the other hand there are many Christians are opposite of what you are claiming here.

If you know you're not perfect, you have no right to accuse others of your expectation. That is a simple principal.

I am beginning to suspect that you have a self righteousness problem, judging from all your stories.

Because it's quite obvious, you think you have done a lot to help society and that give you some sort of "weight" that if anyone in Church, doesn't recognize you or your opinion or go against you for that matter, you lambaste all out crying hurt and hypocrisy and you don't even realize you have become the very thing you hate of others of.

Did I just check you out, it's so obvious?

And what you do is not right either. You are causing hatred, resentment and division. All recognized Churches are Institution of God, pending the cults.

We are called to love and pray for one another, even for the difficult and hypocritical Christians, regardless if they are leaders or Pastors, so that there is a good change. Yes it's that difficult and challenging, I know but God wants unity not division. But it must start from loving your enemies, not pushing them away in resentment and hatred.

Unforgiveness begets many evils. You're not really helping. You're choosing the easy way out.

Though you may think you're doing a good cause but you are really causing more problems than helping.

Partly I don't blame you, You don't think that God can change situations and thus resort to Man's way.

Like I said, God's Church must follow suit God's way, not Man's way.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 6 2014, 11:21 AM
subimpact
post Jun 6 2014, 11:37 AM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 11:33 AM)
oh yeah, call me a hurt person, thats the best argument the christians can come out in their super over defensiveness...so much for christian love.

so when ISMA or perkasa say something about you christians, you go on the defensive means you are hurt ah?

haha,  doh.gif when you try to defend you try to hit under the belt.

so when you say you are sinner, i suddenly accuse you of being low self esteem you like or not? which obviously not true.

you try to label me as something i am not. so much for thou shall not judge for you guys.
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hi bro, i know you dislike such and such.. however please do not bring any of your steam in here smile.gif coming in here and trying to flamebait is just pointless .. unless you get your satisfaction then by means there are other threads to go and chomp on. just not here...

not sure why are you venting it all on here, where there are better places to discuss on the issue between your understanding and our relationship with god. You could start another thread based on your understanding against such and such .

This post has been edited by subimpact: Jun 6 2014, 11:39 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 6 2014, 11:39 AM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 11:33 AM)
oh yeah, call me a hurt person, thats the best argument the christians can come out in their super over defensiveness...so much for christian love.

so when ISMA or perkasa say something about you christians, you go on the defensive means you are hurt ah?

haha,  doh.gif when you try to defend you try to hit under the belt.

so when you say you are sinner, i suddenly accuse you of being low self esteem you like or not? which obviously not true.

you try to label me as something i am not. so much for thou shall not judge for you guys.
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You just proved my point bro.

It's not about best argument.
subimpact
post Jun 6 2014, 12:07 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 11:58 AM)
yeah you are god right..

you say i am a monkey means i am a monkey.

i didn't prove your point...you try to force every excuse to prove your own point.

which is not true.
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this comment is hilarious .. btw bro are you a christian ?

do you accept Christ as your personal savior ?



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post Jun 6 2014, 12:09 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 11:54 AM)
i suspect you have total ignorance problem judging from your comments.

you see a problem in front of you but you choose to ignore...and stay until it get solve by itself...

wah, way to go Mr Doctor Phil...now you can character assasinate me based on my one liners....you think i go help in charities means i want to have a "weight" in church? ya gotta be kidding me...you slanderous man you. Your church taught you to slander people one ah?

i was giving examples of me helping out in charities in both buddhist and christian missions, to reflect that i also believe some christians are doing good in society. I WAS NOT BOASTING...mr Professor...how dare you accuse me of that.

this is why i don't like the typical third type of christians, who think they know it all, they go to the stage and start accusing this people of this and that while they don't understand the whole situation.

you love your enemies does not mean, you stay there and take their shiit. understand...if you feel you are not growing there, what is the point of hanging around? you're wasting yours and their time.

whether you chose to forgive or not, the ego christian will remain an arseehole..that is a fact. For example, i know of a christian guy at work...who gossip something not good about me, one day we were at lunch in the canteen, i raise some work issues, he was dam offended...he attack me verbally...but next day, he came over and apologise, i apologise too...but ya know what, he never change his behavior...he still tai chi and blame my dept for his own dept faults.

some people never change in spite of forgiveness...so for me i just roll my eyes and choose not to associate so much with him. because he still talk like a snob.

don't you think sometime when a man choose his path he could be going god's way too...because that was the path god chose for him? if one believes in god of course.

i give you one example...one of my best friends, a christian...he told me a story of an immature cell group that he once joined...the cg leader was abusive..and paranoid likes to accuse...one day my friend didn't attend a meeting because he had exam..when he came back the cg leader told the members not to talk to him throughout the whole meeting. but my friend wasn't offended by that..what bothered him was that he was more focused on the word but during meeting they were doing other activities. He thought he wasn't growing and the cg just wasn't doing what he felt he was compatible with.

So when he heard from his friend about this new church...a pastor who came from johor...focusing on discipleship and having many forums of discussion about christianity...he decided to join this church. Its been like many years already, he is quite happy there..church even appointed him a deacon.

so what i am saying is this, if the church is not suit to your growth, please leave...don't stay and get your growth retarded like a hobbit..
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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 11:58 AM)
yeah you are god right..

you say i am a monkey means i am a monkey.

i didn't prove your point...you try to force every excuse to prove your own point.

which is not true.
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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 12:04 PM)
Am i saying that i lead by god to leave the church when i am not a christian?

you seem to have a problem understanding what i am saying...

are you like so blind sided to your own opinion that you don't read the whole facts?

am i talking about myself? about if the church not right to get out? i am not talking about myself...

i am talking about the christians or non christians who go to church thinking they would be finally release from their pain, only to get further pain...from churches that are lead wrongly...so the thing to do is to leave for another one.
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The Christians that you lambaste are like you.

They are equally sensitive when contended or Fought, just like how you're displaying your emotions here.

What's my point? Hurt people beget hurts toward others.

It's like the blind leading the blind.

Both falls into a hole that you don't recognized.

That is not the way to go about it.


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post Jun 6 2014, 12:12 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 12:05 PM)
i make up story your head lah..

some of those i said were reported in the papers...

like the city harvest and the convention center that was build by one church in which so many of its members left...you know which church i mean lah.

i am beginning to understand why my non christian friends are always wary of certain christians, that they tend to FAST JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS.
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And also quite a number of the members stayed.

I bet you don't understand why.


TSunknown warrior
post Jun 6 2014, 12:15 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 12:11 PM)
i am not going to answer sub impact...real idiot....

waste of my time..doesn't seem to show any wisdom

don't even bother to read the rest of the post...and ask me whether i am christian or not...now want to join in the debate...

do your homework !
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Again proved my point on the dot.

You want people people to know every crook and nanny about what you posted.

What I said about the "weight" is correct.

And you think this is all about who argue best.

Mind you this is a Christian fellowship thread not RWI.


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post Jun 6 2014, 12:18 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 12:14 PM)
the way to go about it, is not to join them.

so when they realise their recruitment falling...

only then they realise where they went wrong, only then they would insaf and change

if you join them and still suffer their egoness, they just won't change even if you voice out...

that is people nature...

if you sit there and do nothing and pray, you not exercising your faith man.

sometime to counter fire...you need to use some water to flush it out, not fight fire with fire or fight fire by sitting there and wait for god to save you from it...by just sitting down with no action.
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Staying there persevering, serving, while trusting God can make a difference.
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 6 2014, 12:19 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 12:17 PM)
yeah i do, they are brainwashed.

that convention center was a waste of money.

that church is based on a satellite church concept why they need to waste resources and volunteers to go to a place where few of their congregations live?

and they only use it for like once in a month?

if you give 10% won't you want the money channeled to help the poor or to build better teaching facilities at your church rather than waste it on a glamourous building.

just like the crystal cathedral church in USA...today they filing for bankruptcy.

same goes with City Harvest..still got people there stay in spite of the obvious fund abuse.
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No, that is not true, did you asked them why, instead of "quickly jumping to conclusion"?
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post Jun 6 2014, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 12:24 PM)
Nope its not about who argue best.

its about who is genuinely want to discuss this matter.

subimpact don't show any genuineness or frankness.

earlier tell me to leave the forum and say i flamebait...but later want to join in the discussion but never do homework..ask me whether i christian or not.

do you ever not bother to explain when your office email incoming 100 emails a day...then you send one email to this work colleague about a matter...later the colleague ask you where is this email...you don't even want to answer this colleague because this colleague is being lazy and want you to do his work.

same goes for subimpact..lah, want to say something funny...not genuinely want to discuss, want to cause trouble. i am wasting my time with that person.

again you jumping to conclusion.
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If you want people to accept you, you got to try at least meet half way and try to connect with people.








subimpact
post Jun 6 2014, 02:03 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 12:11 PM)
i am not going to answer sub impact...real idiot....

waste of my time..doesn't seem to show any wisdom

don't even bother to read the rest of the post...and ask me whether i am christian or not...now want to join in the debate...

do your homework !
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im asking a question which is out of the debate smile.gif

why so fast with name callings... oh boy.. *facepalm*
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 6 2014, 02:40 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 01:59 PM)
i go visit church i have to get accepted one? omg...

next time anybody want to join church must apply for VISA

its not the meeting halfway...it is that those egoist don't even meet halfway...they are like KKK...if they think you niggah...they try all sorts of ways to force you out by attrition.
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When I talk about meeting half way, it has nothing to do with club membership.

It has to do with you and has to start from you since you are the one aggravating.

If there's a problem, try to solve the problem not be part of the problem and the way to go about it is to look away from yourself and see how you can help others in Church.
And no it has nothing to do with rumor mongering or hate sowing. To me that's really a cowardice way of solving things.

And it's not surprise actually when you complain that people force you out, I can probably understand why, now.







ik3da
post Jun 6 2014, 03:48 PM

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Question: Any Christians here who does/practice incense 'offering/sticking' to ancestors?
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post Jun 6 2014, 04:37 PM

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QUOTE(manickam123 @ Jun 6 2014, 03:22 PM)
wow again you jump into conclusion without evidence.

you like to slander people is it?

how you feel like if i go and say that your father was a hard case and no love kind of man based on how i judge on your dogmatic stubborn comments?

actually the bigger cowards are the ones who use politics for their own means. So now Leon88 say speak up to them...but now you say if you speak up, you are part of the problem...walao meaning to say to be part of a church is to be ruled by a dictator.

i think the true cowards are those who continue to be part of that church, keep silent and cow down, even though they know the mounting problems that the egoist people create there. The true cowards are the ones who just want to suck up to the influential egotistical leaders there so they can gain favor and acceptance. Its just another way of saying "you can't solve the problem, join them".

are you a coward? seem that you are. oops i am jumping to conclusion, oh but thats how you are anyway.

talk about cowardice...i heard of a church and don't say i create story ah. Its true story. They were inviting some malay NGOs for AIDS event because no one else would help the malays. This is good heart for them to do so. But when JAIIIIS come to raid the church...walao, suddenly the leadership say they wanna help the community and what not. They deny vehemently against what their true detractors accuse them of trying to spread religion to the malays.

admit it lah...after all the true intention of all this charity and help is to spread the religion and tell the goodness of the religion to non christians. But they deny ! Isn't that true cowardice?

Thought those days when christians were persecuted during roman times..they would stand up and speak the truth even if it meant being stone to death, one guy kena stone...stephen was it? thats true matryism.

how can i be force out from a church when i am not even a christian? get your facts right before you start accusing me.

thats how you christians are like ah? when you can't convince people, you start to character assasinate with slander and false accusations?

its better to leave, if you stay you BECOME the problem. if you don't grow, you BECOME teh problem. Just like my fren who left his church...to another one..today he's doing much well...being promoted to a deakin.

its not cowardice...its more practical...we only live 80 years mebbe less...we should spend our time more wisely.
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First of all it's not character assassination or slandering because I don't know who you are, neither did I pull you in here to slander you.
You came in here on your own initiative and started to propagate and blast away all your negativity.
The evidence can be seen in the way you portray yourself. How is it character assassination and slandering when you're the one who is doing all this thing?
I'm just pointing out the obvious. That is call slandering you? You're the one who are accusing Christians doing this and that, remember? Are you Confuse?

Because really, If someone really wants to help a Church, they won't resort to the things that you do.
What you are doing is really slandering Christians and pastor. They may have their good side which you didn't bring out, instead you keep on harping on the bad side and for all we know it could be a one sided story.

Why I say it's a cowardice? Take my Church for example, it has it's problem. But I don't resort to the way you do, all you do is talk and back biting, asking people to leave Church.
I stay and serve and pray and I do see changes, I do see Improvement. Yes my leader still has flaws but I don't ask the members to leave because of that.
I believe God can use me together with all my other brothers and sisters in Christ with the same like minded Goal, to bring up the Church, our goal is to serve and not to be served. That is what God wants. Unity. I stayed on not because of any person I like or don't like. because if my staying on has to do with that, then I guess I would have to Church hop every now and then when somebody conflicts against me, no? I look from a bigger point of view or long term perspective. If somebody does something wrong in the Church then perhaps it's my responsibility to do what is right the same place to set as an example. That way at least I don't have it on my conscious that I have wrong motive for going to Church.

Running away and blabbing away complaining non stop and asking others to join in the same puddle of mud you're in is cowardice to me.






14-9-2015
post Jun 6 2014, 05:00 PM

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QUOTE(ik3da @ Jun 6 2014, 03:48 PM)
Question: Any Christians here who does/practice incense 'offering/sticking' to ancestors?
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Nope.........

That would be categorized as idolatory........
ik3da
post Jun 6 2014, 05:10 PM

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QUOTE(14-9-2015 @ Jun 6 2014, 05:00 PM)
Nope.........

That would be categorized as idolatory........
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Hmm, ancestors/parents' incense topic is a bit of a headache for me. Wife giving birth soon and she expect the child to offer incense to the grandmother/ancestors. I on the other hand, not keen but she argues that this is just tradition/respect and not idolizing the ancestors. Not sure what's the best way to resolve.
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post Jun 6 2014, 05:19 PM

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QUOTE(ik3da @ Jun 6 2014, 05:10 PM)
Hmm, ancestors/parents' incense topic is a bit of a headache for me. Wife giving birth soon and she expect the child to offer incense to the grandmother/ancestors. I on the other hand, not keen but she argues that this is just tradition/respect and not idolizing the ancestors. Not sure what's the best way to resolve.
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Pray that God will soften her heart with regards to this.

Keep on praying everyday, consistently and aggressively if you will. Don't agitate or go aggressive in the natural. Be at peace.

You will see the change.

Someone I know in my family had a strong stance against my Faith but today.....very open and almost coming to accept Christ. smile.gif
Different situation but same principal apply.

God can move mountains for you. Just believe my brother.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 6 2014, 05:21 PM
ik3da
post Jun 6 2014, 05:30 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 6 2014, 05:19 PM)
Pray that God will soften her heart with regards to this.

Keep on praying everyday, consistently and aggressively if you will. Don't agitate or go aggressive in the natural. Be at peace.

You will see the change.

Someone I know in my family had a strong stance against my Faith but today.....very open and almost coming to accept Christ.  smile.gif

God can move mountains for you. Just believe my brother.
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Aye, prays every single night but I am just worried that by the time comes, I still have not convinced my wife on this. She's a fine wife/MTB but she's also a Chinese who believes that incense to an elder is just paying respect/being filial and not idolizing one. I respect elders too but I am not sure if letting my child in sticking in a burning joss stick for the dead grandmother is a sin or not. In my case, I didn't do it but child-wise, it has to be a mutually-agreed move which makes my head spins.

Really hope a way opens up soon cause I don't wanna face the wrath of my wife again sweat.gif
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post Jun 6 2014, 05:38 PM

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QUOTE(ik3da @ Jun 6 2014, 05:30 PM)
Aye, prays every single night but I am just worried that by the time comes, I still have not convinced my wife on this. She's a fine wife/MTB but she's also a Chinese who believes that incense to an elder is just paying respect/being filial and not idolizing one. I respect elders too but I am not sure if letting my child in sticking in a burning joss stick for the dead grandmother is a sin or not. In my case, I didn't do it but child-wise, it has to be a mutually-agreed move which makes my head spins.

Really hope a way opens up soon cause I don't wanna face the wrath of my wife again  sweat.gif
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After prayer, you should learn not to worry, once it's in God's hand, leave it as that.

Try not to imagine whatever the outcome. Because it will not give you much rest.

In my opinion, worrying may hinder prayers. Whatever the outcome, learn to let go and rest in the Lord.

God looks at the Heart, he knows your desire for your child.

I will explain more after this, got to go. See you later at night.


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post Jun 6 2014, 06:48 PM

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Wah the posts.

By the way I just feel like I should say this. Not sure if it's somethinig for prayer.

Whenever I sleep on my back I feel really sesak nafas. Very hard to wake up also. Feels like choking yet somehow nice at the same time. It's quite freaky.
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 7 2014, 03:24 AM

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QUOTE(ik3da @ Jun 6 2014, 05:30 PM)
Aye, prays every single night but I am just worried that by the time comes, I still have not convinced my wife on this. She's a fine wife/MTB but she's also a Chinese who believes that incense to an elder is just paying respect/being filial and not idolizing one. I respect elders too but I am not sure if letting my child in sticking in a burning joss stick for the dead grandmother is a sin or not. In my case, I didn't do it but child-wise, it has to be a mutually-agreed move which makes my head spins.

Really hope a way opens up soon cause I don't wanna face the wrath of my wife again  sweat.gif
*
You can stand on this promise.

1 Corinthians 7:14 - For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

Learn to confess what God has provided, not what you think happened. (example, your child holding josstick, etc)

It's a Grace provision for unbelieving wife and in this context, unbelieving actually denotes act of sin. And also in this context, notice the word there "otherwise"?, It means that despite of your unbelieving wife, yes even though they should be unclean but God calls your children Holy, clean.

God is not blind, He knows what is going on in the everyday life of the unbelieving partner. And God wants you to live in peace with your family.

Our Job as Christian is to pray and believe in God's word until the situation comes in line with what God says. And remember God's word about household? Believe in the Lord and you and your household will be.....Saved?

It may be a tough struggle but persistence is a must.

Shalom.
Sophiera
post Jun 7 2014, 03:52 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 7 2014, 03:24 AM)

Learn to confess what God has provided, not what you think happened. (example, your child holding josstick, etc)
Shalom.
*
Could you elaborate on this please?
ik3da
post Jun 7 2014, 11:25 AM

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From: Where kiasu/kiasi lives



QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 7 2014, 03:24 AM)
You can stand on this promise.

1 Corinthians 7:14 - For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

Learn to confess what God has provided, not what you think happened. (example, your child holding josstick, etc)

It's a Grace provision for unbelieving wife and in this context, unbelieving actually denotes act of sin. And also in this context, notice the word there "otherwise"?, It means that despite of your unbelieving wife, yes even though they should be unclean but God calls your children Holy, clean.

God is not blind, He knows what is going on in the everyday life of the unbelieving partner. And God wants you to live in peace with your family.

Our Job as Christian is to pray and believe in God's word until the situation comes in line with what God says. And remember God's word about household? Believe in the Lord and you and your household will be.....Saved?

It may be a tough struggle but persistence is a must.

Shalom.
*
Thanks for the insight. Will pray and believe, truly do not want to argue with my wife bout it smile.gif
skydrake
post Jun 7 2014, 05:03 PM

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hi all, it's been some time i did not reply in here. unknown warrior, i had a suggestion for u to create an automated "LYN Christ Followers List:". u can use google doc and create a form for them to fill in and put a link to view. a lot easier that u don't have to update so many time. all u need it's to monitor it.

So sorry that I'm able to help because my internet connection is are too expensive and too slow for me to make the form for u. I'm sure there is always someone in here to help u with it.

nowdays i only can online and download few page in my offline pocket and read some discussion in here.

alright guys, time to offline now. God bless everybody (^o^)
funny duck
post Jun 8 2014, 09:13 PM

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Heiii brothers and sisters in christ. I am a christian here. I have seen this thread lying around many times already , but i dont have a chance to drop by. But today there are reasons that make me to seek for helpers and guidance on my problems which has been bothering me years.

To be quick and straight i have been diagnosed with a problem which it is called OCD( obsessive compulsive disorder). It is the worst thing that could have happen in one person. It drives me crazy all year long because of this problem laying around inside my head. What it really does is controls one's mind and may make you go crazy because of what it tells you to do,but when you try to neglect the thoughts your mind will tell you that something bad will happen. So this hasn't end just like this yet,if you do what it says then there will be like a compulsion or repetition that will force you to do stuff over and over again.

This OCD some of you may heard of it already but still if anyone wants to know more about this 'OCD' you can google it and you may have a clearer view on what I'm suffering right now.

So guys... The 2nd problem is the main problem that leads me to this thread. To be honest with you guys this might be very difficult for me to share it out but in the end i still have to face the problem. Oh right...sooo yea guys i think im addicted to pronography...i have tried so many times to stop going back to it already but in the end i still fell into temptation. I dont know what to do guys. Whenever i watched it later on i will feel so regret and so ashamed so i always pray to God and ask Him for forgiveness and ask Him to help me to overcome the temptation. But the very next day i have the feeling to watch it again and you know what...ended up watching that stupid stuff again.

I want my life to be change and i want to be christ like so that i can reflect to others how good God is. But these problems are blocking my path to the christian's life styles.

So fellow bros and sis in christ i hope you can at least pray for me to being able to overcome the anxiety and temptation through my life. And i hope that my life will be drawn towards Lord Jesus Christ.

Thank you for lending me your eyes haha and may the good Lord bless you all.

This post has been edited by funny duck: Jun 8 2014, 09:16 PM
pehkay
post Jun 10 2014, 08:20 AM

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GOD DESIRING THAT MAN BE TRANSFORMED IN LIFE INWARDLY

Christianity today exhorts people to improve their outward behavior, but what God pays attention to is far higher than this. God is not after a mere change in man’s outward behavior; rather, He desires man to have an inward transformation in life. He does not want us to merely change our outward living. He wants us to be broken in our inward disposition. The outward change of behavior gains the praises of man, but it cannot please God. What God desires and what pleases Him is not the improvement of our outward behavior but the transformation in life and the breaking of our inward disposition. Mere behavior improvement makes us good persons but not spiritual persons. In order to be spiritual, we need to be broken inwardly. Without being broken, without suffering any blows, and without passing through death, we can be persons who are whole but not persons who are full of life.

What others see in your outward behavior improvement is your morality but not your spirituality. Many times, just as your immorality can become your covering, so your morality can also become your covering. The unbelievers require us to have a high morality, which is reasonable and right. Yet God’s requirement in us is much higher than this. God requires that we be broken and crushed so that the Christ within us-the glorious Christ, the Christ of holiness-may be lived out through us.

GOD DESIRING THAT CHRIST BE LIVED OUT FROM WITHIN US

There are a few kinds of Christians. One kind is the degraded Christian. From the human perspective, Christians of this kind do not look like Christians at all because they live and walk just like the unbelievers. Such Christians are degraded Christians. Another kind are the well-behaved Christians. Formerly such ones were loose, but now they behave properly; formerly they did evil, but now they do good. In man’s eyes, these Christians are above the standard. In God’s eyes, however, they are still below the standard, because what God is after is neither degraded Christians nor Christians who are above the standard.

What God desires is not just that we would be delivered from sins but that Christ would be lived out from within us. This is not a matter of being good or evil, proper or improper, or moral or immoral. Rather, it is a matter of Christ being lived out from within us. We all know that after we are saved, we have God in us as our life. However, is it we who live, or is it God who lives? Is it we who are lived out, or is it God who is lived out? The crux of the matter is whether or not we are willing to be broken and to pass through death. If we are not willing to be broken or to pass through death, God will have no way to live out from within us. However, if we are willing to be broken and to die, God will be able to live out from within us. According to the Bible, to deny the self is to pass through death and the breaking.

We should not merely take care of our human needs; we should also take care of God’s need. When the Lord Jesus was incarnated, He was restricted, constrained, and unable to be released from His human body. However, through His death He was released. The shell of His human body was broken through death so that the divinity within Him, the Christ within Him, could be released. The issue of this release was that God’s life could enter into many people and into us as well. However, immediately after His life came into us, He was confined and constrained in us.
dinnor
post Jun 10 2014, 03:48 PM

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hi guys, anyone here done watching movie "Son of God" yet?
it's true story of Jesus accordingly or ?

i'm muslim by the way
punkolyte
post Jun 10 2014, 04:25 PM

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QUOTE(ik3da @ Jun 6 2014, 03:48 PM)
Question: Any Christians here who does/practice incense 'offering/sticking' to ancestors?
*
Hi ik3da,

Personally I don't think it's categorized as idolatry depending on your intentions. By offering, do you mean your wife has a stone tablet in your home where she offers incense/offerings on a daily basis?

I understand your dilemma, and I had a hard time dealing with this at one point of time as well. While I don't practice daily offerings, etc., I still do visit my dead ancestors gravesite during Cheng Beng to clean up. I just help to clean the place and offer a joss stick as a sign of respect to my grandfather, not forgetting to mention, it's a Chinese culture thing (Westerners offer flowers/candles, we Chinese offer joss sticks). Either way, it's just a sign of respect. And that's it! Anything else other than that(listed below) I don't do:
1) Asking for lottery numbers
2) Asking for blessings and protection, etc.
3) Tossing the coins to "ask" if the spirit is done eating
4) Eating/Using the offers (food, etc.)
5) Offer meals for the spirit
6) Burn paper offerings (Well I do throw stuff in the fire but........my intentions are not too offer, I just do this to play with fire tongue.gif )
7) Stick a joss stick at the "Earth God's/Hades and all other deities" altar for my relatives "protection/blessing wtv"

But this is just me, you are free to make a choice of your own just as long as your intentions are clear. It helps if you pray and ask for guidance. If you did it and feel that it is seriously wrong, ask for forgiveness from God and speak to your wife about how you are not comfortable with it. Pretty sure things will work out eventually.

pehkay
post Jun 10 2014, 04:29 PM

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Wow ... your first post here as a new user? biggrin.gif

Punkolyte,

You are Christian?
punkolyte
post Jun 10 2014, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 10 2014, 04:29 PM)
Wow ... your first post here as a new user? biggrin.gif

Punkolyte,

You are Christian?
*
Yes. I opened up an account just to reply to some queries here. Hoping to help out some freshies....also...slacking off at work tongue.gif
punkolyte
post Jun 10 2014, 06:28 PM

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QUOTE(funny duck @ Jun 8 2014, 09:13 PM)
Heiii brothers and sisters in christ. I am a christian here. I have seen this thread lying around many times already , but i dont have a chance to drop by. But today there are reasons that make me to seek for helpers and guidance on my problems which has been bothering me years.

To be quick and straight i have been diagnosed with a problem which it is called OCD( obsessive compulsive disorder). It is the worst thing that could have happen in one person. It drives me crazy all year long because of this problem laying around inside my head. What it really does is controls one's mind and may make you go crazy because of what it tells you to do,but when you try to neglect the thoughts your mind will tell you that something bad will happen. So this hasn't end just like this yet,if you do what it says then there will be like a compulsion or repetition that will force you to do stuff over and over again.

This OCD some of you may heard of it already but still if anyone wants to know more about this 'OCD' you can google it and you may have a clearer view on what I'm suffering right now. 

So guys... The 2nd problem is the main problem that leads me to this thread. To be honest with you guys this might be very difficult for me to share it out but in the end i still have to face the problem. Oh right...sooo yea guys i think im addicted to pronography...i have tried so many times to stop going back to it already but in the end i still fell into temptation. I dont know what to do guys. Whenever i watched it later on i will feel so regret and so ashamed so i always pray to God and ask Him for forgiveness and ask Him to help me to overcome the temptation. But the very next day i have the feeling to watch it again and you know what...ended up watching that stupid stuff again.

I want my life to be change and i want to be christ like so that i can reflect to others how good God is. But these problems are blocking my path to the christian's life styles.

So fellow bros and sis in christ i hope you can at least pray for me to being able to overcome the anxiety and temptation through my life. And i hope that my life will be drawn towards Lord Jesus Christ.

Thank you for lending me your eyes haha and may the good Lord bless you all.
*
Dude,

Regarding your OCD, I've got no say in that. Pray for a miracle cure? Anywaay, your addiction to porno.....I'm glad you actually brought up this topic because every single freaking church will just say that it's a sin and one ought to stop and pray yadee yadaaa blablabla...and yet, never have I come across a pastor/elder/leader who actually gave a effect-on-life point of view or rather a rational/mental ways to stop, only spiritual and by that it means "you go to hell because you watch porn, so STOP. Just pray and case closed". So really, thanks for your honesty.

While I can't really help you out here, I suppose I can help you pinpoint a few things that could help you with your bad habits. First of all, I am guessing you are in between 16-23 years old dude and still a student. I would say it's quite normal especially when you're at that age......and single.


Of course I have more to say but first let me ask you these few questions:
1) What is YOUR OWN personal opinion of sex before marriage? Is it okay to have one night stands? What about couples who are madly in love? (I don't want to hear repeated stuff from your pastor or stuff you have read, I want YOUR VERY OWN opinion)
2) Do you approve of it especially with all your friends and everyone else you know doing it? It is so normal and a huge achievement that you're a sad pathetic loser if you're still virgin? Would you be like everyone else, just for the sake of not being called a loser?
3) Do you intend to get married some day?



ncys1
post Jun 10 2014, 07:59 PM

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Anybody have experiences with sleep paralysis?
funny duck
post Jun 11 2014, 01:20 AM

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QUOTE(punkolyte @ Jun 10 2014, 06:28 PM)
Dude,

Regarding your OCD, I've got no say in that. Pray for a miracle cure? Anywaay, your addiction to porno.....I'm glad you actually brought up this topic because every single freaking church will just say that it's a sin and one ought to stop and pray yadee yadaaa blablabla...and yet, never have I come across a pastor/elder/leader who actually gave a effect-on-life point of view or rather a rational/mental ways to stop, only spiritual and by that it means "you go to hell because you watch porn, so STOP. Just pray and case closed". So really, thanks for your honesty.

While I can't really help you out here, I suppose I can help you pinpoint a few things that could help you with your bad habits. First of all, I am guessing you are in between 16-23 years old dude and still a student. I would say it's quite normal especially when you're at that age......and single.
Of course I have more to say but first let me ask you these few questions:
1) What is YOUR OWN personal opinion of sex before marriage? Is it okay to have one night stands? What about couples who are madly in love? (I don't want to hear repeated stuff from your pastor or stuff you have read, I want YOUR VERY OWN opinion)
2) Do you approve of it especially with all your friends and everyone else you know doing it? It is so normal and a huge achievement that you're a sad pathetic loser if you're still virgin? Would you be like everyone else, just for the sake of not being called a loser?
3) Do you intend to get married some day?
*
Thanks for your replied and indeed thanks for not laughing me and for knowing my serious difficulties that im facing right now.

1)i have my own personal system which i wont think of having sex with my partner if im not married yet. Even I'm allowed to do that before marriage i wouldnt do that neither because it is my principal.

2)Nope. Nope and nope i wouldn't follow others ppl wrong foot step.

3) For sure, yes.
SUSleonhart88
post Jun 11 2014, 01:42 AM

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why does have african, chinese, european people?Adam and Eve are from Israel right. then african people from where?
Sophiera
post Jun 11 2014, 01:45 AM

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QUOTE(leonhart88 @ Jun 11 2014, 01:42 AM)
why does have african, chinese, european people?Adam and Eve are from Israel right. then african people from where?
*
Adam and Eve are not any race. The original human has all the potential genes for the variations we have today.

As they are the forefathers of Israel, they're also the fore parents of Asians, European, African ect ect
SUSleonhart88
post Jun 11 2014, 01:47 AM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 11 2014, 01:45 AM)
Adam and Eve are not any race. The original human has all the potential genes for the variations we have today.

As they are the forefathers of Israel, they're also the fore parents of Asians, European, African ect ect
*
Thanks for your answer. Then who is the first Asian and African? I like watching wuxia dramas

This post has been edited by leonhart88: Jun 11 2014, 01:48 AM
Sophiera
post Jun 11 2014, 01:49 AM

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QUOTE(leonhart88 @ Jun 11 2014, 01:47 AM)
Thanks for your answer. Then who is the first Asian and African?
*
That one, I dunno. Don't think anyone knows specifically who was the first 'african'. It's a slow mutation over many many generations.
SUSleonhart88
post Jun 11 2014, 01:55 AM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 11 2014, 01:49 AM)
That one, I dunno. Don't think anyone knows specifically who was the first 'african'. It's a slow mutation over many many generations.
*
then why is now not getting any mutation again?
Do you agree with ecclesiastes 1:18? If agree don't want to ask you anymore since will add my sorrowness
SUSleonhart88
post Jun 11 2014, 01:57 AM

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ecclesiastes 1:3-14. I don't need to work hard then?coz everything is no use to chase money. so sophiera, are you not materialistic woman?
Sophiera
post Jun 11 2014, 02:06 AM

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?????

Your question isn't clear. What does race have anything to do with meaningless of life?

As for mutations, you won't see the change until many many many generations, long after you're gone. Just because it doesn't happen in your lifetime doesn't mean it's not happening.

And for working hard, work is important. It's in fact holy The thing is working until no relationship, no health, no conscience ect ect is the problem.
Sophiera
post Jun 11 2014, 02:10 AM

Sophtopus
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P.s It's not that humans start to sprout tentacles or something. The most recent example close to home are Chindians. They're not chinese, nor are they indian. Have a whole group of people mixing together and you have a new variation.
dinnor
post Jun 11 2014, 09:14 AM

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QUOTE(dinnor @ Jun 10 2014, 03:48 PM)
hi guys, anyone here done watching movie "Son of God" yet?
it's true story of Jesus accordingly or ?

i'm muslim by the way
*
can reply to my post above.. ?thanks
pehkay
post Jun 11 2014, 11:27 AM

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QUOTE(dinnor @ Jun 11 2014, 09:14 AM)
can reply to my post above.. ?thanks
*
Why do you want to know?

It's a movie ... definitely some "artistic license" were taken that were not accurate.

This review seem reasonable : http://www.blogos.org/gotquestions/son-of-God.php

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 11 2014, 11:31 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 11 2014, 11:38 AM

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QUOTE(funny duck @ Jun 8 2014, 09:13 PM)
Heiii brothers and sisters in christ. I am a christian here. I have seen this thread lying around many times already , but i dont have a chance to drop by. But today there are reasons that make me to seek for helpers and guidance on my problems which has been bothering me years.

To be quick and straight i have been diagnosed with a problem which it is called OCD( obsessive compulsive disorder). It is the worst thing that could have happen in one person. It drives me crazy all year long because of this problem laying around inside my head. What it really does is controls one's mind and may make you go crazy because of what it tells you to do,but when you try to neglect the thoughts your mind will tell you that something bad will happen. So this hasn't end just like this yet,if you do what it says then there will be like a compulsion or repetition that will force you to do stuff over and over again.

This OCD some of you may heard of it already but still if anyone wants to know more about this 'OCD' you can google it and you may have a clearer view on what I'm suffering right now. 

So guys... The 2nd problem is the main problem that leads me to this thread. To be honest with you guys this might be very difficult for me to share it out but in the end i still have to face the problem. Oh right...sooo yea guys i think im addicted to pronography...i have tried so many times to stop going back to it already but in the end i still fell into temptation. I dont know what to do guys. Whenever i watched it later on i will feel so regret and so ashamed so i always pray to God and ask Him for forgiveness and ask Him to help me to overcome the temptation. But the very next day i have the feeling to watch it again and you know what...ended up watching that stupid stuff again.

I want my life to be change and i want to be christ like so that i can reflect to others how good God is. But these problems are blocking my path to the christian's life styles.

So fellow bros and sis in christ i hope you can at least pray for me to being able to overcome the anxiety and temptation through my life. And i hope that my life will be drawn towards Lord Jesus Christ.

Thank you for lending me your eyes haha and may the good Lord bless you all.
*
QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 7 2014, 03:52 AM)
Could you elaborate on this please?
*
Hi Sophiera,

How r u? Sorry took awhile to reply, was away for few days.

The thing about being a Christian is not to be sin conscious all the time.

Hebrews 6: 1-2
1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,a and of faith in God,
2 instruction about cleansing rites,b the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.

Hebrews 6:1 means don't build your life (laying again foundation) on repentance over and over again. Don't be Sin conscious. Doing this, will only impede your spiritual life. God calls this elementary or very basic kindergarten. But be Christ conscious. And I can prove this in the following verse.

What did the Apostle Paul wrote?

Philippians 3:12-14
12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Here Paul is saying in verse 12, One should always cultivate an open mind to learn and press on. FORGET the past, the wrongs, the sins, yes FORGET it, don't focus on it but press on towards the goal and our GOAL is heavenward in Christ Jesus meaning, always be Christ conscious.

And WHAT is Christ conscious? , when you fall into sin, God wants you to be Christ-conscious. This means that when you have missed it, God wants you to be conscious that in Christ, you have forgiveness of sins through His blood. God wants you to be conscious that Christ was wounded and bruised for your sins, and that the chastisement for your peace was upon Him. (Isaiah 53:5)

When you are Christ-conscious, you will have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 5:1) You will know that you are the righteousness of God in Christ because He who knew no sin was made sin for you. (2 Corinthians 5:21) He took your sin and now you have His righteousness.

So when you fall, don’t be conscious of your failure and feel bad or condemned. Instead, be conscious of who you are in Christ, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue your walk with God.

Hope this helps you in your spiritual walk with God. smile.gif

Here are 2 more verses for you to ponder.

1 Timothy 1:19 - holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith.

1 Timothy 3:9 - They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. (not works of sin or iniquity)


QUOTE(ik3da @ Jun 7 2014, 11:25 AM)
Thanks for the insight. Will pray and believe, truly do not want to argue with my wife bout it  smile.gif
*
Hi ik3da,

Hope you caught hold of what I've just explained to Sophiera, it is what I meant. So don't worry about your son doing what wrong, keep on confessing the promises of God. Be God conscious rather than Sin conscious.



QUOTE(skydrake @ Jun 7 2014, 05:03 PM)
hi all, it's been some time i did not reply in here. unknown warrior, i had a suggestion for u to create an automated "LYN Christ Followers List:". u can use google doc and create a form for them to fill in and put a link to view. a lot easier that u don't have to update so many time. all u need it's to monitor it.

So sorry that I'm able to help because my internet connection is are too expensive and too slow for me to make the form for u. I'm sure there is always someone in here to help u with it.

nowdays i only can online and download few page in my offline pocket and read some discussion in here.

alright guys, time to offline now. God bless everybody (^o^)
*
Hey Bro, good suggestion and I know how to use google docs but I prefer to keep it here because at least the word of God can reach a wider audience of bro n sis.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 11 2014, 11:55 AM
Sophiera
post Jun 11 2014, 06:30 PM

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Hi UW, not so good in the health department. Sakit perut, cirit birit water and all cry.gif

On the plus side, I finally have Unifi.
nerdyone
post Jun 11 2014, 10:15 PM

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Hey guys, just wondering anyone fancy being a part of a contemporary / worship band?
pehkay
post Jun 12 2014, 09:07 AM

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Not really ^^;


pehkay
post Jun 12 2014, 09:11 AM

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CHRIST NEEDING BROKEN VESSELS TO BE CHANNELS OF LIVING WATER

Christ does not need whole vessels; instead, He needs broken vessels. This is because only broken vessels can be channels of living water. Whole vessels can only be cisterns of dead water (Jeremiah 2:13). The biggest problem today is that it is hard to find any wounds or scars in most Christians. Most of us do not have any wounds, scars, marks of death, or experiences of the cross. Even though we have been saved and truly have Christ’s life in us, this life has no way to come out. The reason is not that our behavior is too poor or too good but that we are too whole and too impregnable. Because we have no wounds, Christ has no way to be released from within us.

Suppose a person is quick-tempered and appears arrogant. It would be relatively easy for such a one to become humble because he may often examine himself and condemn his irritability. Suppose another person is meek by nature and apparently humble. It would be harder for such a one to know himself. Instead, it would be easy for him to become proud before God. He may think that the other person is irritable and arrogant while he is meek and humble. What is this? This is real pride. Sometimes when we go to visit people, the wife says, "My husband is too quick." What she means is that her husband is quick but she is not and that she is meek but her husband is troublesome. However, she is actually more troublesome before God than her husband. It is hard for many of the saints who have a number of good points to make any spiritual progress. This is due to the fact that they have listened to many messages not for themselves but for others.

Some of the saints do not seem to have a bad temper; they are as gentle as sheep. However, they always listen to messages not for themselves but for others. When they hear a word concerning breaking, they think, "Brother A is quick-tempered, so he surely needs to be broken. Sister B is not good either, so she also needs to be broken." It never occurs to them that those who are meek need to be broken even more than those who are quick-tempered.

It is often easier for God to deal with a stubborn person than with a pliable person. Someone may seem to be so pliable, like a rubber ball, that God has no way to break him. When a certain situation arises, he does not care. When he is dealt with by his supervisor, he does not care. When he is dealt with by some of his family members, he cares even less. Like a rubber ball, he bounces back whenever he is hit, and he bounces up whenever he is thrown down. This kind of person is indifferent toward everything; he is unbreakable. He cannot be broken by one person, nor by two, three, or even five persons. However, if he were a glass, he could be broken with a single stroke.

If a sister cannot be broken by her husband, her son, or her daughter-in-law, people will praise her, saying that she is really spiritual because she cannot be broken by anyone. However, we must realize that because she is not broken and cannot be broken, Christ has no way to live out from her. What she lives out is her whole self, her smooth and refined self, but not Christ. Christ has no way to live out of her.

Neither our kindness, our good deeds, nor our morality can represent Christ. Only Christ Himself can represent Christ. Nothing that we have, even if it is good, can represent Christ. The progress of a Christian’s spiritual life does not depend on how much he has changed; rather, it depends on how much he has been broken and to what stature Christ has grown in him. In other words, the growth of a Christian hinges on his being broken and Christ’s increasing in him.
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 12 2014, 09:45 AM

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QUOTE(nerdyone @ Jun 11 2014, 10:15 PM)
Hey guys, just wondering anyone fancy being a part of a contemporary / worship band?
*
If you don't mind an old guy in the band. laugh.gif

anyway I'm in Praise & Worship team, just fyi.

Don't mind though if the time and day for practice is right.
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post Jun 12 2014, 10:01 AM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 11 2014, 06:30 PM)
Hi UW, not so good in the health department. Sakit perut, cirit birit water and all cry.gif

On the plus side, I finally have Unifi.
*
you know, what you can do is, everyday pray to the Lord for good health.

I know it works because Even though I'm around people with flu, cough, etc, doesn't catch on.

Was almost caught with bad sore throat but I told God, I'm leading in P&W, I need my voice, so God answered & delivered.

I want you to know that you have a right to this as well., you can pray for this anytime and everytime, don't need a reason for good health, it's been paid for by the blood of Christ.

Just exercise your faith.


QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 12 2014, 09:11 AM)
CHRIST NEEDING BROKEN VESSELS TO BE CHANNELS OF LIVING WATER

Christ does not need whole vessels; instead, He needs broken vessels. This is because only broken vessels can be channels of living water. Whole vessels can only be cisterns of dead water (Jeremiah 2:13). The biggest problem today is that it is hard to find any wounds or scars in most Christians. Most of us do not have any wounds, scars, marks of death, or experiences of the cross. Even though we have been saved and truly have Christ’s life in us, this life has no way to come out. The reason is not that our behavior is too poor or too good but that we are too whole and too impregnable. Because we have no wounds, Christ has no way to be released from within us.

Suppose a person is quick-tempered and appears arrogant. It would be relatively easy for such a one to become humble because he may often examine himself and condemn his irritability. Suppose another person is meek by nature and apparently humble. It would be harder for such a one to know himself. Instead, it would be easy for him to become proud before God. He may think that the other person is irritable and arrogant while he is meek and humble. What is this? This is real pride. Sometimes when we go to visit people, the wife says, "My husband is too quick." What she means is that her husband is quick but she is not and that she is meek but her husband is troublesome. However, she is actually more troublesome before God than her husband. It is hard for many of the saints who have a number of good points to make any spiritual progress. This is due to the fact that they have listened to many messages not for themselves but for others.

Some of the saints do not seem to have a bad temper; they are as gentle as sheep. However, they always listen to messages not for themselves but for others. When they hear a word concerning breaking, they think, "Brother A is quick-tempered, so he surely needs to be broken. Sister B is not good either, so she also needs to be broken." It never occurs to them that those who are meek need to be broken even more than those who are quick-tempered.

It is often easier for God to deal with a stubborn person than with a pliable person. Someone may seem to be so pliable, like a rubber ball, that God has no way to break him. When a certain situation arises, he does not care. When he is dealt with by his supervisor, he does not care. When he is dealt with by some of his family members, he cares even less. Like a rubber ball, he bounces back whenever he is hit, and he bounces up whenever he is thrown down. This kind of person is indifferent toward everything; he is unbreakable. He cannot be broken by one person, nor by two, three, or even five persons. However, if he were a glass, he could be broken with a single stroke.

If a sister cannot be broken by her husband, her son, or her daughter-in-law, people will praise her, saying that she is really spiritual because she cannot be broken by anyone. However, we must realize that because she is not broken and cannot be broken, Christ has no way to live out from her. What she lives out is her whole self, her smooth and refined self, but not Christ. Christ has no way to live out of her.

Neither our kindness, our good deeds, nor our morality can represent Christ. Only Christ Himself can represent Christ. Nothing that we have, even if it is good, can represent Christ. The progress of a Christian’s spiritual life does not depend on how much he has changed; rather, it depends on how much he has been broken and to what stature Christ has grown in him. In other words, the growth of a Christian hinges on his being broken and Christ’s increasing in him.
*
bump for devotion reading.
hotjake
post Jun 12 2014, 11:15 AM

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become serious kopitiam d, achievement unlocked biggrin.gif
subimpact
post Jun 12 2014, 11:49 AM

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not sure if i should quit my job and go fulltime ministry
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post Jun 12 2014, 01:30 PM

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QUOTE(subimpact @ Jun 12 2014, 11:49 AM)
not sure if i should quit my job and go fulltime ministry
*
Going full time is ministry and warfare at the same time, be prepare to face both.

Toughest challenge is always towards people.

If you got the knack for loving people, it would help lessen the challenge.

My advise is don't go into ministry to escape the rat race and politics of corporate world because in ministry you'll find it's almost the same, only the challenge could be much greater.




Sophiera
post Jun 12 2014, 02:30 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 12 2014, 10:01 AM)
you know, what you can do is, everyday pray to the Lord for good health.

I know it works because Even though I'm around people with flu, cough, etc, doesn't catch on.

Was almost caught with bad sore throat but I told God, I'm leading in P&W, I need my voice, so God answered & delivered.

I want you to know that you have a right to this as well., you can pray for this anytime and everytime, don't need a reason for good health, it's been paid for by the blood of Christ.

Just exercise your faith.

*
I find that very hard to believe. I am very sure it happens miraculously to other people. One of my elders survived a stage 4 cancer. It's that the recovery seems to elude me. sad.gif

Pehkay, interesting thing you posted the devotional today! A part of my writing had a man who first appears saintly, but as time goes by it's revealed that he has issues too. I'm glad that it's not an insult to RL christians
subimpact
post Jun 12 2014, 02:35 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 12 2014, 01:30 PM)
Going full time is ministry and warfare at the same time, be prepare to face both.

Toughest challenge is always towards people.

If you got the knack for loving people, it would help lessen the challenge.

My advise is don't go into ministry to escape the rat race and politics of corporate world because in ministry you'll find it's almost the same, only the challenge could be much greater.
*
true... biggrin.gif

not full time maybe part time..
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 12 2014, 02:40 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 12 2014, 02:30 PM)
I find that very hard to believe. I am very sure it happens miraculously to other people. One of my elders survived a stage 4 cancer. It's that the recovery seems to elude me. sad.gif

Pehkay, interesting thing you posted the devotional today! A part of my writing had a man who first appears saintly, but as time goes by it's revealed that he has issues too. I'm glad that it's not an insult to RL christians
*
Faith requires exercise.

The more you go into it, your faith or can I say your confidence in the Lord will grow.

This is where James 2:14-26 applies.

Faith must be accompanied by works in words, thoughts and action.


annoymous1234
post Jun 12 2014, 02:58 PM

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Jesus mention that, do not commit adultary, and he also mention, those who view another person lustfully is already commenting adultery.
Now I wanna ask about the word lust here, as a guy, I believe that it is a human nature to react when they see a sexy or say, a full nude body. Can a christian or even a pastor look the other way and not fantasies if a female is nude in front of them?
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 12 2014, 03:07 PM

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QUOTE(subimpact @ Jun 12 2014, 02:35 PM)
true... biggrin.gif

not full time maybe part time..
*
Churches are always looking for extra hands in the ministry, even part time is much needed.

Anyone can go into full time ministry but I believe it takes the Lord's calling for smoother transition.


subimpact
post Jun 12 2014, 03:15 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 12 2014, 03:07 PM)
Churches are always looking for extra hands in the ministry, even part time is much needed.

Anyone can go into full time ministry but I believe it takes the Lord's calling for smoother transition.
*
yea ... coz im at a point in my walk in life about doing something beneficial for the Lord instead of just going to mundane daily jobs which just push me through daily materialistic stuff...

i mean like fully devoted into ministry.. does not need to be pastorial... maybe like out reach for the orang asli, orphans or some unfortunate old folks which has been forsaken by their childrens..
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 12 2014, 03:24 PM

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QUOTE(annoymous1234 @ Jun 12 2014, 02:58 PM)
Jesus mention that, do not commit adultary, and he also mention, those who view another person lustfully is already commenting adultery.
Now I wanna ask about the word lust here, as a guy, I believe that it is a human nature to react when they see a sexy or say, a full nude body. Can a christian or even a pastor look the other way and not fantasies if a female is nude in front of them?
*
Jesus also mention if your eyes caused you to sin, better to gorge it out and throw it away. (Matthew 18:9).

Anyone without proper understand of God's word will misinterpret that and take that as literal meaning of physical gorging our eyes out.

What Jesus is actually saying is, deal the problem at root level. It has nothing to do with cutting off your hands or eyes.

How do you arrive at sexy or nude body situation? If it's through pornography website, them refrain from surfing there.
If it's from downloaded movies, delete the file permanently.

Same thing I always advise, even in /k/, avoid all the hnnng thread.

Deal at root level.

What did Joseph do when Pothiphars wife wanted to seduce Him? He stayed on, fighting with his will power and holy thoughts?

No, He ran. Why? Because He knows the putting confidence in the flesh will only succumb.




dinnor
post Jun 12 2014, 04:16 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 11 2014, 11:27 AM)
Why do you want to know?

It's a movie ... definitely some "artistic license" were taken that were not accurate.

This review seem reasonable : http://www.blogos.org/gotquestions/son-of-God.php
*
thanks for the link smile.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 12 2014, 04:35 PM

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QUOTE(subimpact @ Jun 12 2014, 03:15 PM)
yea ... coz im at a point in my walk in life about doing something beneficial for the Lord  instead of just going to mundane daily jobs which just push me through daily materialistic stuff...

i mean like fully devoted into ministry.. does not need to be pastorial... maybe like out reach for the orang asli, orphans or some unfortunate old folks which has been forsaken by their childrens..
*
or serving in your home Church talking to fellow believers so that they don't feel left out is also ministry.

Simple things but yet equally important.
Sophiera
post Jun 12 2014, 04:43 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 12 2014, 04:35 PM)
or serving in your home Church talking to fellow believers so that they don't feel left out is also ministry.

Simple things but yet equally important.
*
Yes it is. I always feel left out to be honest >_<
subimpact
post Jun 12 2014, 04:49 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 12 2014, 04:35 PM)
or serving in your home Church talking to fellow believers so that they don't feel left out is also ministry.

Simple things but yet equally important.
*
well u need to be fruitful too biggrin.gif keep mingling around your circle is not progressing.. lately i seen many churches has more elderly people coz they tend to constrain themselve within their churches la... need to out reach sikit... smile.gif

QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 12 2014, 04:43 PM)
Yes it is. I always feel left out to be honest >_<
*
slowly loooooo take to em.. unless they very harsh XD
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 12 2014, 04:50 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 12 2014, 04:43 PM)
Yes it is. I always feel left out to be honest >_<
*
yeah I know,

When Church leaders or Pastors connect & communicate with the members, the members feel at home.

They feel a sense of belonging.

It's always a challenge when the Pastor or Church leaders don't communicate frequently with the members.


TSunknown warrior
post Jun 12 2014, 05:00 PM

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QUOTE(subimpact @ Jun 12 2014, 04:49 PM)
well u need to be fruitful too biggrin.gif keep mingling around your circle is not progressing.. lately i seen many churches has more elderly people coz they tend to constrain themselve within their churches la... need to out reach sikit... smile.gif
slowly loooooo take to em.. unless they very harsh XD
*
Nah, I don't really have my own circle, I'm more like a lone ranger type.
subimpact
post Jun 12 2014, 05:06 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 12 2014, 05:00 PM)
Nah, I don't really have my own circle, I'm more like a lone ranger type.
*
well u dont attend cellgroups ???

yawn.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 12 2014, 05:12 PM

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QUOTE(subimpact @ Jun 12 2014, 05:06 PM)
well u dont attend cellgroups ???

yawn.gif
*
I do, I get involved quite a bit in my Church, what I mean is, I don't have a particular favorite circle I frequently mix.

Try be neutral as possible.


subimpact
post Jun 12 2014, 05:20 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 12 2014, 05:12 PM)
I do, I get involved quite a bit in my Church, what I mean is, I don't have a particular favorite circle I frequently mix.

Try be neutral as possible.
*
currently im mixing with youths which plays ultimate... and young working adult... and also do ushering.. and soon joining a PA team.. however seems lacking..i feel i could do more ...
14-9-2015
post Jun 12 2014, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 12 2014, 09:11 AM)
CHRIST NEEDING BROKEN VESSELS TO BE CHANNELS OF LIVING WATER

Christ does not need whole vessels; instead, He needs broken vessels. This is because only broken vessels can be channels of living water. Whole vessels can only be cisterns of dead water (Jeremiah 2:13). The biggest problem today is that it is hard to find any wounds or scars in most Christians. Most of us do not have any wounds, scars, marks of death, or experiences of the cross. Even though we have been saved and truly have Christ’s life in us, this life has no way to come out. The reason is not that our behavior is too poor or too good but that we are too whole and too impregnable. Because we have no wounds, Christ has no way to be released from within us.

Suppose a person is quick-tempered and appears arrogant. It would be relatively easy for such a one to become humble because he may often examine himself and condemn his irritability. Suppose another person is meek by nature and apparently humble. It would be harder for such a one to know himself. Instead, it would be easy for him to become proud before God. He may think that the other person is irritable and arrogant while he is meek and humble. What is this? This is real pride. Sometimes when we go to visit people, the wife says, "My husband is too quick." What she means is that her husband is quick but she is not and that she is meek but her husband is troublesome. However, she is actually more troublesome before God than her husband. It is hard for many of the saints who have a number of good points to make any spiritual progress. This is due to the fact that they have listened to many messages not for themselves but for others.

Some of the saints do not seem to have a bad temper; they are as gentle as sheep. However, they always listen to messages not for themselves but for others. When they hear a word concerning breaking, they think, "Brother A is quick-tempered, so he surely needs to be broken. Sister B is not good either, so she also needs to be broken." It never occurs to them that those who are meek need to be broken even more than those who are quick-tempered.

It is often easier for God to deal with a stubborn person than with a pliable person. Someone may seem to be so pliable, like a rubber ball, that God has no way to break him. When a certain situation arises, he does not care. When he is dealt with by his supervisor, he does not care. When he is dealt with by some of his family members, he cares even less. Like a rubber ball, he bounces back whenever he is hit, and he bounces up whenever he is thrown down. This kind of person is indifferent toward everything; he is unbreakable. He cannot be broken by one person, nor by two, three, or even five persons. However, if he were a glass, he could be broken with a single stroke.

If a sister cannot be broken by her husband, her son, or her daughter-in-law, people will praise her, saying that she is really spiritual because she cannot be broken by anyone. However, we must realize that because she is not broken and cannot be broken, Christ has no way to live out from her. What she lives out is her whole self, her smooth and refined self, but not Christ. Christ has no way to live out of her.

Neither our kindness, our good deeds, nor our morality can represent Christ. Only Christ Himself can represent Christ. Nothing that we have, even if it is good, can represent Christ. The progress of a Christian’s spiritual life does not depend on how much he has changed; rather, it depends on how much he has been broken and to what stature Christ has grown in him. In other words, the growth of a Christian hinges on his being broken and Christ’s increasing in him.
*
Reading this was really meaningful. You knw, when u reach a certain age & have a so-called track record as testimony, folks will only say things like : Oh! he's just a nice person or Oh! he's a good boy so he doesn't do these things.

Never will you hear them say, he behaves like this b'cos he's a Christian or he's a goodie-2-shoes b'cos he follows Christ. So, I would like to find out more about his faith! They attribute the good, coming frm the man himself rather than a change that was brought on by the leading of the Holy Spirit simply b'cos he/she wasn't that bad to begin with. So unless thr's this tremendous change which can bring out the contrast easily, others just don't see it. Sometimes witnessing is challenging b'cos of this.

Then on top of that, God is moulding us in his own way on the side, b'cos thr's still sanctification to be had. A works in progress which other ppl do not & cannot see.
annoymous1234
post Jun 12 2014, 06:07 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 12 2014, 03:24 PM)
Jesus also mention if your eyes caused you to sin, better to gorge it out and throw it away. (Matthew 18:9).

Anyone without proper understand of God's word will misinterpret that and take that as literal meaning of physical gorging our eyes out.

What Jesus is actually saying is, deal the problem at root level. It has nothing to do with cutting off your hands or eyes.

How do you arrive at sexy or nude body situation? If it's through pornography website, them refrain from surfing there.
If it's from downloaded movies, delete the file permanently.

Same thing I always advise, even in /k/, avoid all the hnnng thread.

Deal at root level.

What did Joseph do when Pothiphars wife wanted to seduce Him? He stayed on, fighting with his will power and holy thoughts?

No, He ran. Why? Because He knows the putting confidence in the flesh will only succumb.
*
That is what i thought at first, literally take out eyes out, and i thought, isn't it too much sweat.gif
14-9-2015
post Jun 12 2014, 06:12 PM

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QUOTE(annoymous1234 @ Jun 12 2014, 06:07 PM)
That is what i thought at first, literally take out eyes out, and i thought, isn't it too much  sweat.gif
*
Ha ha ha ha ha! if it was taken literally, u will see many blind ppl about tongue.gif

but yeah, avoid the temptation b4 it comes. u can try surfing the net wif doors open, whr ur household members can see what u r viewing.
pehkay
post Jun 12 2014, 09:16 PM

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QUOTE(14-9-2015 @ Jun 12 2014, 05:29 PM)
Reading this was really meaningful. You knw, when u reach a certain age & have a so-called track record as testimony, folks will only say things like : Oh! he's just a nice person or Oh! he's a good boy so he doesn't do these things.

Never will you hear them say, he behaves like this b'cos he's a Christian or he's a goodie-2-shoes b'cos he follows Christ. So, I would like to find out more about his faith! They attribute the good, coming frm the man himself rather than a change that was brought on by the leading of the Holy Spirit simply b'cos he/she wasn't that bad to begin with. So unless thr's this tremendous change which can bring out the contrast easily, others just don't see it. Sometimes witnessing is challenging b'cos of this.

Then on top of that, God is moulding us in his own way on the side, b'cos thr's still sanctification to be had. A works in progress which other ppl do not & cannot see.
*
The best way is ask for this from the Lord. We are here not for any other thing but to know Christ. We should not pray for our work but for this revelation, the revelation that Christ in us has become our life. We have to comprehend, to sense, and to practically experience Christ’s working Himself into us through our environments.

wink.gif
14-9-2015
post Jun 12 2014, 09:18 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 12 2014, 09:16 PM)
The best way is ask for this from the Lord. We are here not for any other thing but to know Christ. We should not pray for our work but for this revelation, the revelation that Christ in us has become our life. We have to comprehend, to sense, and to practically experience Christ’s working Himself into us through our environments.

wink.gif
*
Amen bro. In a very dry place right now.
eaglehelang
post Jun 12 2014, 10:42 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 12 2014, 04:43 PM)
Yes it is. I always feel left out to be honest >_<
*
Left out in what sense? Nobody come talk to you? You join but feel you not ngam key with them?
Or generation gap?
Join the prayer meeting or Bible Study or Home Cell. If want more socialising, it does take more effort.

For me, less kacauing me better. Other than serving/ministry (ie work) matters, I quickly buzz off to avoid the pot pet pot pet, from Genesis to Revelation also they can cerita.
funny duck
post Jun 13 2014, 03:25 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 11 2014, 11:38 AM)
Hi Sophiera,

How r u? Sorry took awhile to reply, was away for few days.

The thing about being a Christian is not to be sin conscious all the time.

Hebrews 6: 1-2
1 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,a and of faith in God,
2 instruction about cleansing rites,b the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.

Hebrews 6:1 means don't build your life (laying again foundation) on repentance over and over again. Don't be Sin conscious.  Doing this, will only impede your spiritual life. God calls this elementary or very basic kindergarten. But be Christ conscious. And I can prove this in the following verse.

What did the Apostle Paul wrote?

Philippians 3:12-14
12 Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13 Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.

Here Paul is saying in verse 12, One should always cultivate an open mind to learn and press on. FORGET the past, the wrongs, the sins, yes FORGET it, don't focus on it but press on towards the goal and our GOAL is heavenward in Christ Jesus meaning, always be Christ conscious.

And WHAT is Christ conscious? , when you fall into sin, God wants you to be Christ-conscious. This means that when you have missed it, God wants you to be conscious that in Christ, you have forgiveness of sins through His blood. God wants you to be conscious that Christ was wounded and bruised for your sins, and that the chastisement for your peace was upon Him. (Isaiah 53:5)

When you are Christ-conscious, you will have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. (Romans 5:1) You will know that you are the righteousness of God in Christ because He who knew no sin was made sin for you. (2 Corinthians 5:21) He took your sin and now you have His righteousness.

So when you fall, don’t be conscious of your failure and feel bad or condemned. Instead, be conscious of who you are in Christ, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue your walk with God.

Hope this helps you in your spiritual walk with God.  smile.gif 

Here are 2 more verses for you to ponder.

1 Timothy 1:19 - holding on to faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and so have suffered shipwreck with regard to the faith.

1 Timothy 3:9 - They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience. (not works of sin or iniquity)
Hi ik3da,

Hope you caught hold of what I've just explained to Sophiera, it is what I meant. So don't worry about your son doing what wrong, keep on confessing the promises of God. Be God conscious rather than Sin conscious.
Hey Bro, good suggestion and I know how to use google docs but I prefer to keep it here because at least the word of God can reach a wider audience of bro n sis.
*
Were you replying to me or just to Sophiera? But anyway i find this has a strong relation to my problems. Don't be sin conscious,but to be Christ conscious and conscious of who are you in Christ.

If this message was meant for me,i appreciated it a lot! If it was not meant for me i have to thank you for it too because this helps reminding and waking me up not to be sin conscious, but to be Christ conscious and glorify His name. Thank you anyway! God bless you!

De_Luffy
post Jun 13 2014, 06:06 AM

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in many churches today i often appalled by the attitude of their members that look on worldly stuff but not onto the teaching of Christ, Jesus said love your neighbor as yourself, but we hardly see this anymore in modern churches today that led to many members left to find a greener pastures
pehkay
post Jun 13 2014, 08:27 AM

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greener pastures as in? the world? biggrin.gif
De_Luffy
post Jun 13 2014, 08:40 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 13 2014, 08:27 AM)
greener pastures as in? the world? biggrin.gif
*
a term for another church that is willing to accept them as who they are?
pehkay
post Jun 13 2014, 08:47 AM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Jun 13 2014, 08:40 AM)
a term for another church that is willing to accept them as who they are?
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Sad huh ? sweat.gif
De_Luffy
post Jun 13 2014, 08:50 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 13 2014, 08:47 AM)
Sad huh ?  sweat.gif
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i believe that many churches has this problem, but the elders and decans and pastors are turning blind eyes on this situation
pehkay
post Jun 13 2014, 09:37 AM

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THE RELEASE OF THE LIFE OF CHRIST

Luke 12:50 says, "But I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how I am pressed until it is accomplished!" The Greek word for pressed has a wonderful meaning that is hard to express in translation. The original meaning of this word refers to a person being confined in a house or put into a box and therefore feeling constrained and pressed, not freed or released.

The Lord said that He had a baptism to be baptized with and that He was pressed until it was accomplished. He had a baptism to be baptized with, and this baptism was His death, the death on the cross. Many who do not know the mystery of Christ's life think that the Lord Jesus was afraid to die on the cross. However, this verse shows us that the Lord was very eager to die on the cross. Why? He was eager to die because there was a powerful, unlimited, and eternal life concealed in Him, and He strongly wished that He could release it.

God is infinite and His life is also infinite. One day this infinite God came into a small man who, on the contrary, was finite. What is incarnation? Incarnation is God’s coming into man and mingling Himself with man. God is infinite, whereas man is finite. Incarnation is the mingling of the infinite God with the finite man. If you put me into a 3.75 square-foot box, I will feel constrained, pressed, and bound every second. If I were there for only one minute, I would be pressed for the entire minute.

THE DEATH OF THE CROSS DOING THE BREAKING WORK

What is the effect of death? The effect of death is the breaking work. What needs to be broken? The human shell has to be broken. Where is it broken? It is broken on the cross. Many people think that the death of the cross is merely a suffering of punishment and pain. However, all those who know the cross know that the cross is more than the suffering of pain and punishment. The death of the cross causes the human shell to be split and broken so that the unlimited life can be released from man. This is what the Lord meant when He said, "I have a baptism to be baptized with." He was very much restricted in the human flesh; therefore, He longed to go to the cross that He might be broken. His death was a breaking work that enabled the unlimited life to be released from Him.

In John 12:24 the Lord Jesus said, "Unless the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone." The life of the grain of wheat is concealed in the shell of the wheat and is restricted by this outer shell. However, if this grain of wheat dies, death will have an effect which allows the life of the wheat to be released. Hence, the Lord Jesus said that once the grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it begins to grow and bear much fruit. However, suppose we put this grain of wheat into a beautiful box to honor and respect it. If this grain of wheat could speak, it would plead with us, saying, "Do not honor and respect me in this way. I am greatly bound here. I would rather that you give me an environment in which I could die. I am very eager to die because death is my only way out. Only by death can the life within me break forth."

(...)
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post Jun 13 2014, 10:32 AM

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QUOTE(subimpact @ Jun 12 2014, 05:20 PM)
currently im mixing with youths which plays ultimate... and young working adult... and also do ushering.. and soon joining a PA team.. however seems lacking..i feel i could do more ...
*
If you want to do more, try and increase your quiet time with God, it's a real challenge, really.
That is something not many Christian are willing to do.

And God wants you to be at rest more than what you're willing to do for him. Because when you are more at rest, you receive more from God, wisdom, grace, miracles...etc.
That way you'll be better equip to serve. He will move you to places when the time is right, there are no coincidental occurance, when you're willing to serve, it's always divine appointment from God.

QUOTE(annoymous1234 @ Jun 12 2014, 06:07 PM)
That is what i thought at first, literally take out eyes out, and i thought, isn't it too much  sweat.gif
*
There are many things we may not understand the Bible because most of the time, upon first impression, we read it like how we read any other book.

The words in the Bible are actually the spirit of God imprinted. (John 6:63)
The Words in the Bible is God himself. (John 1:1)
It takes the Holy Spirit to help us understand and it comes through meditation of God's word, just like how a farm animals (cow) chews it's food and regurgitate, then chew again until all the nutrients are taken in completely. So thus, must we meditate in such a manner until revelation from the H.S. comes in. That is the right way to absorb God's word into our life.

And God's word in the Bible are living words meaning it can speak to you and when it does, it's usually hits like "owwh why didn't I think of that before". doh.gif

QUOTE(funny duck @ Jun 13 2014, 03:25 AM)
Were you replying to me or just to Sophiera? But anyway i find this has a strong relation to my problems. Don't be sin conscious,but to be Christ conscious and conscious of who are you in Christ.

If this message was meant for me,i appreciated it a lot! If it was not meant for me i have to thank you for it too because this helps reminding and waking me up not to be sin conscious, but to be Christ conscious and glorify His name. Thank you anyway! God bless you!
*
Trust me, when you are Christ conscious, any form of bondage (lust, anger, etc) will lose it's hold over time, the power of bondage won't be so appealing anymore when you are secure in Christ.
It only comes via being Christ conscious. wink.gif (John 8:36 (NIV) - So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.)

God Bless.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 13 2014, 10:41 AM
subimpact
post Jun 13 2014, 10:45 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 13 2014, 10:32 AM)
If you want to do more, try and increase your quiet time with God, it's a real challenge, really.
That is something not many Christian are willing to do.

And God wants you to be at rest more than what you're willing to do for him. Because when you are more at rest, you receive more from God, wisdom, grace, miracles...etc.
That way you'll be better equip to serve. He will move you to places when the time is right, there are no coincidental occurance, when you're willing to serve, it's always divine appointment from God.
There are many things we may not understand the Bible because most of the time, upon first impression, we read it like how we read any other book.

The words in the Bible are actually the spirit of God imprinted. (John 6:63)
The Words in the Bible is God himself. (John 1:1)
It takes the Holy Spirit to help us understand and it comes through meditation of God's word, just like how a farm animals (cow) chews it's food and regurgitate, then chew again until all the nutrients are taken in completely. So thus, must we  meditate in such a manner until revelation from the H.S. comes in. That is the right way to absorb God's word into our life.

And God's word in the Bible are living words meaning it can speak to you and when it does, it's usually hits like "owwh why didn't I think of that before". doh.gif
Trust me, when you are Christ conscious, any form of bondage (lust, anger, etc) will lose it's hold over time, the power of bondage won't be so appealing anymore when you are secure in Christ.
It only comes via being Christ conscious.  wink.gif (John 8:36 (NIV) - So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed.)

God Bless.
*
bro dont judge me, but quiet time mostly after working hours... on weekdays , weekends is church activities minus fridays which have cell group...
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post Jun 13 2014, 10:48 AM

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QUOTE(subimpact @ Jun 13 2014, 10:45 AM)
bro dont judge me, but quiet time mostly after working hours...  on weekdays , weekends is church activities minus fridays which have cell group...
*
I was speaking generally about that, not judging you actually.
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post Jun 13 2014, 10:58 AM

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QUOTE(funny duck @ Jun 11 2014, 01:20 AM)
Thanks for your replied and indeed thanks for not laughing me and for knowing my serious difficulties that im facing right now.

1)i have my own personal system which i wont think of having sex with my partner if im not married yet. Even I'm allowed to do that before marriage i wouldnt do that neither because it is my principal.

2)Nope. Nope and nope i wouldn't follow others ppl wrong foot step.

3) For sure, yes.
*
Good to know you have your own principles. Be sure to stick to them. There can be times when relying on bible verses and prayers won't be enough, so having your own principles will really help. Remember that "the flesh is weak". My hubby recommends distracting yourself whenever you feel the urge by doing something that will really occupy your mind and requires focus, such as playing an intense game, read a fav book, talk to your parents, call up a close friend and have a meaningful discussion, go for a workout/run, as long as it keeps you focus long enough to rid the urge. Yes, it's the wife replying you this time, he's too busy with work and feels bad he can't reply you directly so I'm doing so on his behalf if you don't mind smile.gif
So whatever you read here will be his and her opinions, the best of both worlds about a habit that be rather self destructive.

Now, the worst thing about porn is it doesn't affect you presently, but it affects your future. Think about your wife, I assume you are reserving yourself for her, because you already love her even though you haven't met her? Remember, honor your wife. If you love God, love your wife, if you love her, honor her.

Now how does it affect your future? Well, you will probably end up going for physical features when looking for a partner in the future and not emotional/intellectual features. Even if you can coax yourself to go for the latter features, when you're married and it's time to get to "know" her you won't be able to feel the feeling of fulfillment or satisfaction, like as if she is not enough. Why? Because she does not have the body of your ideal pornstar, therefore you find her unattractive. In the long run, this can really run your marriage to the ground especially when there are so many external influencing factors out there.

Secondly, watching porn is sort of like a visual training. The more you watch it, the more you will want to try out the nonsense you see in it. At this rate, you might even break your precious principles and when that's done, there's no going back. Somethings, once lost, is forever gone. FYI, all that stuff you see is fake, think about it. He hasn't even touched her and she's already moaning away. I remember watching it in uni once back with some of my friends (I'm a psychology major, we were doing research and yes, really research, not "research" tongue.gif ) and the first question I asked myself "Why is she so noisy? The guy didn't even do anything..." blink.gif Some people find porn disgusting and disturbing, I find it stupid.

It sets a fake (and incredibly low) standard about how girls react. You try any of that you learned in porn in the future and you're going to have a bad time. You lose your own sense of originality and end up just copying the nonsense you see.

So if you really want to stop, think about your future. Is that 5 minutes of lust satisfaction worth a lifetime of regret? and it wont just be your own, your wife will be affected by it as well. She would feel insecure about her physical appearance and end up doing things that she may regret eventually.

That's about all I have to say, hope it helps. There's a pretty good movie that depicts the life of most men out there and it's called Don Jon. Check it out smile.gif

subimpact
post Jun 13 2014, 10:59 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 13 2014, 10:48 AM)
I was speaking generally about that, not judging you actually.
*
other than quiet time... what other areas..?
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post Jun 13 2014, 01:14 PM

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QUOTE(subimpact @ Jun 13 2014, 10:59 AM)
other than quiet time... what other areas..?
*
I find that the most important, compared to even serving. biggrin.gif
subimpact
post Jun 13 2014, 01:17 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 13 2014, 01:14 PM)
I find that the most important, compared to even serving.  biggrin.gif
*
true also... haha may the good lord bless ya day biggrin.gif

peace

btw


Sophiera

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!
user posted image

This post has been edited by subimpact: Jun 13 2014, 01:22 PM
De_Luffy
post Jun 13 2014, 02:56 PM

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Happy Birthday Sophiera rclxms.gif
Sophiera
post Jun 13 2014, 05:10 PM

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It's not the 13th, it's the 14th D:

Greet again tomorrow XD
Brusky
post Jun 13 2014, 10:18 PM

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Just to bump the thread!

user posted image

Simple and effective. smile.gif
De_Luffy
post Jun 14 2014, 12:47 AM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 13 2014, 05:10 PM)
It's not the 13th, it's the 14th D:

Greet again tomorrow XD
*
well i am greeting again Happy Birthday Sophiera!!!! rclxms.gif rclxms.gif thumbup.gif
Sophiera
post Jun 14 2014, 01:19 AM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Jun 14 2014, 12:47 AM)
well i am greeting again Happy Birthday Sophiera!!!! rclxms.gif  rclxms.gif  thumbup.gif
*
Thank you thank you! biggrin.gif
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post Jun 14 2014, 10:53 AM

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Haaaappppppyyyy birthday to you....

may the good Lord blessss you,

you were born in the z.........

just kidding.

user posted image
Sophiera
post Jun 14 2014, 04:10 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 14 2014, 10:53 AM)
Haaaappppppyyyy birthday to you....

may the good Lord blessss you,

you were born in the z.........

just kidding.

user posted image
*
Waaah such a nice picture rclxms.gif Thank you so much UW! And additional thanks to subimpact even though he got the date wrong tongue.gif
Berkshire Breakaway
post Jun 15 2014, 03:52 PM

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hello all,

i am new here, would like to join this thread too

De_Luffy
post Jun 15 2014, 04:55 PM

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QUOTE(Berkshire Breakaway @ Jun 15 2014, 03:52 PM)
hello all,

i am new here, would like to join this thread too
*
welcome to the family smile.gif

mind to intro yourself of where is your church that you are serving?
Berkshire Breakaway
post Jun 15 2014, 06:47 PM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Jun 15 2014, 04:55 PM)
welcome to the family smile.gif

mind to intro yourself of where is your church that you are serving?
*
i do not have a dedicated home church or part of any cell group
sometimes i attend DUMC and sometimes i attend FGA also
De_Luffy
post Jun 15 2014, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(Berkshire Breakaway @ Jun 15 2014, 06:47 PM)
i do not have a dedicated home church or part of any cell group
sometimes i attend DUMC and sometimes i attend FGA also
*
nvm as long you are interested to share your thought about Christianity with us all here smile.gif
Berkshire Breakaway
post Jun 15 2014, 11:20 PM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Jun 15 2014, 11:08 PM)
nvm as long you are interested to share your thought about Christianity with us all here smile.gif
*
sure i will try to share my thoughts when they come
btw sometimes i goto glad tidings too, nice church

subimpact
post Jun 15 2014, 11:38 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 14 2014, 04:10 PM)
Waaah such a nice picture rclxms.gif Thank you so much UW! And additional thanks to subimpact even though he got the date wrong tongue.gif
*
my calendar normally early one day... hahaha so better wish early than never biggrin.gif

happy fathers day smile.gif

if u guys got any events going on in ya church do tell ... so can go visit tongue.gif

This post has been edited by subimpact: Jun 15 2014, 11:39 PM
De_Luffy
post Jun 15 2014, 11:53 PM

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QUOTE(subimpact @ Jun 15 2014, 11:38 PM)
my calendar normally early one day... hahaha so better wish early than never biggrin.gif

happy fathers day smile.gif

if u guys got any events going on in ya church do tell ... so can go visit tongue.gif
*
u can come to klang? will let you guys know if there any event at my church smile.gif
funny duck
post Jun 16 2014, 01:19 AM

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QUOTE(punkolyte @ Jun 13 2014, 10:58 AM)
Good to know you have your own principles. Be sure to stick to them. There can be times when relying on bible verses and prayers won't be enough, so having your own principles will really help. Remember that "the flesh is weak". My hubby recommends distracting yourself whenever you feel the urge by doing something that will really occupy your mind and requires focus, such as playing an intense game, read a fav book, talk to your parents, call up a close friend and have a meaningful discussion, go for a workout/run, as long as it keeps you focus long enough to rid the urge. Yes, it's the wife replying you this time, he's too busy with work and feels bad he can't reply you directly so I'm doing so on his behalf if you don't mind smile.gif
So whatever you read here will be his and her opinions, the best of both worlds about a habit that be rather self destructive.

Now, the worst thing about porn is it doesn't affect you presently, but it affects your future. Think about your wife, I assume you are reserving yourself for her, because you already love her even though you haven't met her? Remember, honor your wife. If you love God, love your wife, if you love her, honor her.

Now how does it affect your future? Well, you will probably end up going for physical features when looking for a partner in the future and not emotional/intellectual features. Even if you can coax yourself to go for the latter features, when you're married and it's time to get to "know" her you won't be able to feel the feeling of fulfillment or satisfaction, like as if she is not enough. Why? Because she does not have the body of your ideal pornstar, therefore you find her unattractive. In the long run, this can really run your marriage to the ground especially when there are so many external influencing factors out there.

Secondly, watching porn is sort of like a visual training. The more you watch it, the more you will want to try out the nonsense you see in it. At this rate, you might even break your precious principles and when that's done, there's no going back. Somethings, once lost, is forever gone. FYI, all that stuff you see is fake, think about it. He hasn't even touched her and she's already moaning away. I remember watching it in uni once back with some of my friends (I'm a psychology major, we were doing research and yes, really research, not "research"  tongue.gif ) and the first question I asked myself "Why is she so noisy? The guy didn't even do anything..."  blink.gif Some people find porn disgusting and disturbing, I find it stupid.

It sets a fake (and incredibly low) standard about how girls react. You try any of that you learned in porn in the future and you're going to have a bad time. You lose your own sense of originality and end up just copying the nonsense you see.

So if you really want to stop, think about your future. Is that 5 minutes of lust satisfaction worth a lifetime of regret? and it wont just be your own, your wife will be affected by it as well. She would feel insecure about her physical appearance and end up doing things that she may regret eventually.

That's about all I have to say, hope it helps. There's a pretty good movie that depicts the life of most men out there and it's called Don Jon. Check it out smile.gif
*
Hey there! No of course i wouldn't mind whoever that reply me, it is lovely to see that couple like u and your husband willing to do even the smallest things to help out the needy.

What you did say is very important in every aspects,as i can see that pronography ruins everything...i knew that. I had a time i thought about how it will affect my future and my future partner. But sometimes you just cant overcome the temptation all by yourself...thats why i need God's help and of course prayers. But since then u suggested or maybe your husband suggested that idea of doing others stuff to prevent the "thoughts" or the "urge" from controlling ones mind. Well i guess that would be a great idea to try it out when i have the bad "thoughts".

Your replies are much appreciated and do help me to say thank you to him for his kindness. May God bless you and your husband!
pehkay
post Jun 16 2014, 07:59 AM

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THE LORD'S LIFE BEING RELEASED THROUGH THE DEATH OF THE CROSS

Those who know Christ will say that the death of the Lord Jesus on the cross is beyond human imagination. If you ask a Muslim why the Lord Jesus died, he may tell you that Jesus sacrificed Himself for the truth. If you ask a genuine Christian why Jesus died, he will reply that Jesus died to bear the sin of the world and become a curse for the world. We have to bear in mind, however, that knowing the Lord to this extent is not high enough or accurate enough. If we ask a more advanced and spiritual Christian, he will say, "The Lord Jesus not only bore the sin of the world on the cross, He also obtained a great release. His life, which was concealed in the human shell given to Him by Mary, was released. This was because the death of the cross broke His human shell and split the veil, His physical body. His life was thus released on the cross."

When He was on the cross, a soldier pierced His side with a spear, and immediately there came out blood and water (John 19:34). Blood signifies that He bore our sins and redeemed us. Hence, the death of the Lord Jesus was a redemptive death, as indicated by the blood. However, not only did blood come out on the cross but also water. Water refers to life. The Lord’s death was not merely for the accomplishment of redemption but also for the release of life. If He, the one grain of wheat, was to be multiplied thirtyfold, sixtyfold, or a hundredfold, He had to pass through death. If He had not died, He would have remained a single grain. But since He died, the life of this single grain has entered into the many grains. He was a seed that was full of life. If He had not died, His life would have remained only in Himself and could not have entered into Peter, James, John, the other disciples, and all those who have believed in Him. Do not say that time is so long and space is so wide. If He had not died, His life would have stayed only in Himself and could not have been in the disciples. If He had not died, He could have walked among the disciples, but He could not have lived in them.

Regrettably, the disciples only knew the preciousness of the Lord’s presence among them, but it never occurred to them that the Lord would come into them and be mingled with them. The Lord intended to be in them as their life. The Lord said that He had a baptism to be baptized with, that He had to suffer death. The Lord felt that death was a glory and a release, but the disciples were sorrowful. Why were the disciples sorrowful? It was because the Lord had to die. There were originally thirteen of them altogether—the Lord Jesus plus the disciples. If the Lord died, however, they felt that they would be like orphans. Nevertheless, the Lord Jesus told them not to be sorrowful because in only three days He would come back into their midst. Furthermore, not only would He be in their midst, but He would also enter into them and abide in them. Previously whenever the disciples were in Galilee, and the Lord was in the land of Judea, He had no way to be with them because He was restricted by His human shell. However, after the Lord’s death His life was released from within Him, and after His resurrection this life entered into all those who believed in Him.
subimpact
post Jun 16 2014, 11:22 AM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Jun 15 2014, 11:53 PM)
u can come to klang? will let you guys know if there any event at my church smile.gif
*
wut event u got at klang?? o.o
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post Jun 16 2014, 02:36 PM

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QUOTE(Berkshire Breakaway @ Jun 15 2014, 03:52 PM)
hello all,

i am new here, would like to join this thread too
*
Welcome Welcome.


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post Jun 16 2014, 02:39 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 12 2014, 02:30 PM)
I find that very hard to believe. I am very sure it happens miraculously to other people. One of my elders survived a stage 4 cancer. It's that the recovery seems to elude me. sad.gif
*
Haih, the Spiritual Warfare, after I told you this, I got attacked immediately with all this again. tongue.gif

But pray!!!!!!! bruce.gif

Today Monday, on verge of recovery. sweat.gif



Sophiera
post Jun 16 2014, 04:48 PM

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My boyfriend believes everything of the Bible and Jesus, but is afraid to go to church and/or make an official prayer of salvation. Macam mana? sad.gif
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post Jun 16 2014, 04:58 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 16 2014, 04:48 PM)
My boyfriend believes everything of the Bible and Jesus, but is afraid to go to church and/or make an official prayer of salvation. Macam mana? sad.gif
*
You pray for Him. tongue.gif

No choice sophiera, you're going to have exercise your faith.

I'll help you and probably knock some of God's word into your prayer life.
Sophiera
post Jun 16 2014, 05:02 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 16 2014, 04:58 PM)
You pray for Him.  tongue.gif

No choice sophiera, you're going to have exercise your faith.

I'll help you and probably knock some of God's word into your prayer life.
*
You are going to do it in a PM?

I didn't find out he's not a Christian until late in our relationship. I thought he is because he agree to everything Jesus.
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 16 2014, 05:16 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 16 2014, 05:02 PM)
You are going to do it in a PM?

I didn't find out he's not a Christian until late in our relationship. I thought he is because he agree to everything Jesus.
*
yup, Pmed.




jozs88
post Jun 17 2014, 10:58 AM

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hi everyone. im new here. this group is around the KV area no? Was wondering if there's a watsapp group and do you all get together every now and then for events and stuff? I would be quite interested to join if there is.
pehkay
post Jun 17 2014, 01:22 PM

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Hope this testimony is beneficial .... it is certainly for me. biggrin.gif

...I can also tell you another story, that at a certain hour of a certain day in a certain month and certain year, God opened my eyes to see that Christ is my healing. This is something that cannot be repeated; it is something that cannot be quantified. Once is enough. It is not a thing that can be counted. It is a person, a personified healing. My healing is a person who is in me as my healing all the time. Praise the Lord that this is a fact. Having God heal me and having Him as my healing are two entirely different things. One is a thing; the other is a person.

Paul was not healed, but he received the healing. Can we see the difference between these two? Paul showed in 2 Corinthians 12 that he was not healed (v. 9). He did not receive the thing which we call healing. But with Paul, we see One who was his healing continually. His weakness remained with him, but his healing also remained with him. His weakness was chronic, but his healing was abiding. What is a healing? To us, a healing is the removal of something. No, healing is not a removal; healing is acquiring something. Healing is not the removal of weakness but the presence of strength.

When I first saw this matter, the light came very slowly because my mind was filled with things; everything around me was a thing. I did not realize that the Lord wanted to be my thing, and I did not know that healing was not a thing. I only knew that the Lord promised me something; I did not know that the Lord wanted to be my healing. I only knew about the Lord’s promise; I did not know about the Lord as my healing. One day I read Paul’s story in 2 Corinthians. It was very strange to me. It would have been an easy thing for the Lord to grant him the healing. Removing the thorn was as easy for the Lord as a doctor removing germs. But why did the Lord not heal Paul? I prayed about this, and while I was praying, the Lord showed me one thing. In 1923 Brother Weigh invited me to preach at a certain place. In order to get there, I had to take a little boat along the Min River. The boats often became stuck to the riverbed because the water was too shallow and the rocks were big. The boat owner often had to tug the boat along. While I was praying, this scene suddenly appeared in my mind. I said, "God, it would be easy for You to remove the rocks. Would it not be wonderful if You removed the rocks, and the boat floated on the water instead?" I read 2 Corinthians 12 and realized that this was exactly how Paul prayed. The water was too shallow, and the rocks were exposed conspicuously; Paul prayed that God would remove the rocks so that he could sail on the water once again. But God answered by saying that He would not remove the rocks. Instead, He caused the water level to rise. When the water rises, the boat can pass over the rocks. This is what God is doing. Our problem and our prayer are that we are only for a thing—healing. But His answer is for Him to be our healing. When He is present, we can glide over our problems. Paul’s weakness was still there; he did not use his own strength to fight it. If he fought with his own strength, he could only say that his own strength had tabernacled over him. But it was the power of Christ which tabernacled over him (v. 9). It was God who was working. There is a basic difference here. One is God giving me a thing, and the other is God Himself becoming my thing. God in me becomes the thing that I need. God Himself is that very thing.

(Watchman Nee)
ysuyan
post Jun 17 2014, 02:15 PM

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Hi smile.gif

Now only I know there is Christian fellowship in lowyat forum.

May God always be with you all
ysuyan
post Jun 17 2014, 02:21 PM

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From the rising of the sun to the place where it sets, the name of the LORD is to be praised.
-Psalm 113:3
[attachmentid=4016998]
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 17 2014, 02:22 PM

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QUOTE(jozs88 @ Jun 17 2014, 10:58 AM)
hi everyone. im new here. this group is around the KV area no? Was wondering if there's a watsapp group and do you all get together every now and then for events and stuff? I would be quite interested to join if there is.
*
QUOTE(ysuyan @ Jun 17 2014, 02:15 PM)
Hi smile.gif

Now only I know there is Christian fellowship in lowyat forum.

May God always be with you all
*
Welcome.
ysuyan
post Jun 17 2014, 02:27 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 17 2014, 02:22 PM)
Welcome.
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smile.gif Are you a pastor in this thread only or in reality too ?

Good to know you.

I'm from EMC , PJ.
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 17 2014, 02:37 PM

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QUOTE(ysuyan @ Jun 17 2014, 02:27 PM)
smile.gif Are you a pastor in this thread only or in reality too ?

Good to know you.

I'm from EMC ,  PJ.
*
oh no, I'm not a pastor.....yet. Though it did cross my mind. biggrin.gif
Sophiera
post Jun 17 2014, 04:25 PM

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Apologies to spacelion in advance, I'm not humiliating you. I feel that this is a very important topic to learn.

QUOTE(spacelion @ Jun 16 2014, 09:17 PM)
actually , those who give money for charity is useless, it's like throwing money at a problem thinking it will go away.

Charity = time , people have only 24 hours in a day, to be willing to sacrifice time , no matter what faith or creed, is what I respect the most when people talk about charity.

Money charity is meaningless, which is why when I see religions talking about how much money they give away to the poor I just shake my head in disgust.
*
Mintak tolong Unknown warrior clarify it to other folks here. Is this the case of hand telling the foot that it's useless? I personally don't agree that money is useless considering my history. My old church practically couldn't support itself from the lack of funds. Sampai pastor almost cannot buy his food.

Is the true problem the reverse? Money is fuel, workers are the engines. Fuel without engine is no point, engine without fuel also cannot jalan. I have the impression that there's not enough fuel in some parts, too much fuel in others.
rphoen1x
post Jun 17 2014, 05:40 PM

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Any nice churches in Klang with a nice park opened to public to just sit and think?
14-9-2015
post Jun 17 2014, 07:11 PM

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QUOTE(ysuyan @ Jun 17 2014, 02:27 PM)
smile.gif Are you a pastor in this thread only or in reality too ?

Good to know you.

I'm from EMC ,  PJ.
*
hello fren smile.gif

mods moved us to Serious /k just 2 wks back.
De_Luffy
post Jun 18 2014, 12:26 AM

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QUOTE(rphoen1x @ Jun 17 2014, 05:40 PM)
Any nice churches in Klang with a nice park opened to public to just sit and think?
*
please give more detail on sit and think?
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post Jun 18 2014, 01:00 AM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 17 2014, 04:25 PM)
Apologies to spacelion in advance, I'm not humiliating you. I feel that this is a very important topic to learn.
Mintak tolong Unknown warrior clarify it to other folks here. Is this the case of hand telling the foot that it's useless? I personally don't agree that money is useless considering my history. My old church practically couldn't support itself from the lack of funds. Sampai pastor almost cannot buy his food.

Is the true problem the reverse? Money is fuel, workers are the engines. Fuel without engine is no point, engine without fuel also cannot jalan. I have the impression that there's not enough fuel in some parts, too much fuel in others.
*
You mean this verse?

1 Corinthians 12:21 - the eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!"

In a way yes. Different believers are given different gifting and everyone is equally important to build the Church up and impact the nation.

Even giving is a gift. Not everyone can give. So every believer has their own role to play, in this sense, nobody is left out.


rphoen1x
post Jun 18 2014, 09:27 AM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Jun 18 2014, 12:26 AM)
please give more detail on sit and think?
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A nice quiet and inspiring place to just sit and think about life smile.gif Some sort like those monasteries/ashrams up in the mountains for a short religious getaway to find inspiration.
Berkshire Breakaway
post Jun 18 2014, 09:39 AM

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hey guys, sorry if this is rather off topic
but can any of you recommend charities (preferable christian charities/missionaries) with very low administrative charges (cost of paying their staff salaries/support service/advertisements etc)

i looked at http://www.malaysiancare.org/
but their administrative charges are quite high when i looked at their financial report.

thanks in advance

spacelion
post Jun 18 2014, 09:46 AM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 17 2014, 04:25 PM)
Apologies to spacelion in advance, I'm not humiliating you. I feel that this is a very important topic to learn.
Mintak tolong Unknown warrior clarify it to other folks here. Is this the case of hand telling the foot that it's useless? I personally don't agree that money is useless considering my history. My old church practically couldn't support itself from the lack of funds. Sampai pastor almost cannot buy his food.

Is the true problem the reverse? Money is fuel, workers are the engines. Fuel without engine is no point, engine without fuel also cannot jalan. I have the impression that there's not enough fuel in some parts, too much fuel in others.
*
But is your pastor the charity ? You are there to meet his needs, and then allocate the church funds to doing stuff. Not host extravagant parties and fund raising events that mirror what a secular charity would do.

I'm not going to judge your pastor based on his actions, but if he was that poor maybe he could have taken a job instead of trying to rely on the church to feed him. But hey, like I said, time is precious and most people are unwilling to sacrifice time to help others or oneself.

This post has been edited by spacelion: Jun 18 2014, 09:48 AM
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post Jun 18 2014, 10:33 AM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jun 18 2014, 09:46 AM)
But is your pastor the charity ? You are there to meet his needs, and then allocate the church funds to doing stuff. Not host extravagant parties and fund raising events that mirror what a secular charity would do.

I'm not going to judge your pastor based on his actions, but if he was that poor maybe he could have taken a job instead of trying to rely on the church to feed him. But hey, like I said, time is precious and most people are unwilling to sacrifice time to help others or oneself.
*
Are you a Christian, bro?
spacelion
post Jun 18 2014, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 18 2014, 10:33 AM)
Are you a Christian, bro?
*
Yes. Although I dont see the reasoning as to why you would question one's faith in this. What I said is applicable to almost every religion out there, people are too obsessed with giving money instead of time.

This post has been edited by spacelion: Jun 18 2014, 12:11 PM
ysuyan
post Jun 18 2014, 12:22 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 18 2014, 01:00 AM)
You mean this verse?

1 Corinthians 12:21 - the eye cannot say to the hand, "I don't need you!" And the head cannot say to the feet, "I don't need you!"

In a way yes. Different believers are given different gifting and everyone is equally important to build the Church up and impact the nation.

Even giving is a gift. Not everyone can give. So every believer has their own role to play, in this sense, nobody is left out.
*
Agree with him that, giving, is based on own willingness. And most important, its a gift between you and God smile.gif
ysuyan
post Jun 18 2014, 12:25 PM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jun 18 2014, 12:01 PM)
Yes. Although I dont see the reasoning as to why you would question one's faith in this. What I said is applicable to almost every religion out there, people are too obsessed with giving money instead of time.
*
Well, in today's world, ppl thinking that "giving money" = doing God's work.
What I can say, Yes, we do give, but He will be more happy if we spend more time with Him. When we spend more time with Him, His works, glorify His name, we ourselves able to smile from the bottom of our heart.
ysuyan
post Jun 18 2014, 12:27 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 17 2014, 02:37 PM)
oh no, I'm not a pastor.....yet. Though it did cross my mind.  biggrin.gif
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smile.gif
As long you are a Godly man, man of faith with love and hope. that shall be the ultimate success in your life.
ysuyan
post Jun 18 2014, 01:16 PM

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QUOTE(14-9-2015 @ Jun 17 2014, 07:11 PM)
hello  fren smile.gif

mods moved us to Serious /k just 2 wks back.
*
I see~~ cool2.gif
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 18 2014, 02:28 PM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jun 18 2014, 12:01 PM)
Yes. Although I dont see the reasoning as to why you would question one's faith in this. What I said is applicable to almost every religion out there, people are too obsessed with giving money instead of time.
*
If you're not a Christian, you might find my explanation rather irrelevant, these days I'm not interested into long rebuttal with a non believer, waste of precious time as you put it.

The truth of God's word transcends time, past present and future. It applies throughout generations and the days to come even the future if God wills it.

First of all, God is not against people receiving their living. It saddens me to see sometime people try to exhibit legality holiness when it comes to money beyond even what God has warranted.

In of Church
1 Corinthians 9:14 - In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.
1 Timothy 5:18 - For Scripture says, "Do not muzzle an ox while it is treading out the grain," and "The worker deserves his wages."

and outside of Church
Luke 10:7 - Stay there, eating and drinking whatever they give you, for the worker deserves his wages. Do not move around from house to house.
2 Timothy 2:6 - The hardworking farmer should be the first to receive a share of the crops.

Yes you are right, people can give their tithing other than money, like time and skills but you have to understand that even God knows we all have our needs and those intangible resources can't pay the economics of living. (Matthew 17:27)

It's really up to each individual to give. (2 Corinthians 9:7)

We can't dictate how preachers of the Gospel should receive their living (whether material or intangible) but I believe they have a right to their living.
spacelion
post Jun 18 2014, 02:32 PM

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QUOTE(ysuyan @ Jun 18 2014, 12:25 PM)
Well, in today's world, ppl thinking that "giving money" = doing God's work.
What I can say, Yes, we do give, but He will be more happy if we spend more time with Him. When we spend more time with Him, His works, glorify His name, we ourselves able to smile from the bottom of our heart.
*
I agree, that was the point that I was trying to make.



Although I am amazed at Sophie's discourse that her old church had a dependent pastor who was unable to make ends meet. Notice that even the disciples had jobs while they were following Jesus around, they didn't just drop their vocations and follow Him around 24/7.
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post Jun 18 2014, 02:44 PM

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QUOTE(ysuyan @ Jun 18 2014, 12:27 PM)
smile.gif
As long you are a Godly man, man of faith with love and hope. that shall be the ultimate success in your life.
*
That's a rather tall order to live up to.

I'm someone with great flaws and still learning and seriously far from what people expect from a Godly Man.

The grace of our Heavenly Father is why I'm here.

but thanks for the encouragement anyway. biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 18 2014, 04:35 PM
Sophiera
post Jun 18 2014, 03:47 PM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jun 18 2014, 02:32 PM)
I agree, that was the point that I was trying to make.
Although I am amazed at Sophie's discourse that her old church had a dependent pastor who was unable to make ends meet. Notice that even the disciples had jobs while they were following Jesus around, they didn't just drop their vocations and follow Him around 24/7.
*
He has tried to find employment but failed. Law of South Africa cannot be applied in Malaysia. English class also tak jadi.

I would appreciate to not immediately jump into conclusions that we do super extravagant needless things.
spacelion
post Jun 18 2014, 04:14 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 18 2014, 03:47 PM)
He has tried to find employment but failed. Law of South Africa cannot be applied in Malaysia. English class also tak jadi.

I would appreciate to not immediately jump into conclusions that we do super extravagant needless things.
*
I knew a South African pastor who was married, he had to divorce and go back to his country. Name was Wayne (i think). Orang putih.

I'm not going to argue with you, we can do that over sotong (although I would rather not), but unless someone has some kind of disability it is very hard to understand how one can be jobless.

Sophiera
post Jun 18 2014, 04:17 PM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jun 18 2014, 04:14 PM)
I knew a South African pastor who was married, he had to divorce and go back to his country. Name was Wayne (i think). Orang putih.

I'm not going to argue with you, we can do that over sotong (although I would rather not), but unless someone has some kind of disability it is very hard to understand how one can be jobless.
*
Owh declan jangan gaduh kat sotong. Nanti we kena tiau+troll by notious laugh.gif
Though I'm not sure if he's free to fetch me >_<
spacelion
post Jun 18 2014, 04:20 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 18 2014, 04:17 PM)
Owh declan jangan gaduh kat sotong. Nanti we kena tiau+troll by notious laugh.gif
Though I'm not sure if he's free to fetch me >_<
*
i will be too busy eating sotong la >.<
ysuyan
post Jun 18 2014, 05:07 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 18 2014, 02:44 PM)
That's a rather tall order to live up to.

I'm someone with great flaws and still learning and seriously far from what people expect from a Godly Man.

The grace of our Heavenly Father is why I'm here.

but thanks for the encouragement anyway.  biggrin.gif
*
No one is perfect smile.gif
But in God's eyes we are perfect.

Brother and sisters are meant to take care of each others back ,that's how we encourage each other wink.gif
Sophiera
post Jun 18 2014, 08:43 PM

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I don't mean to defame or insult anyone. I just disagree very much that funding is less important than volunteer. Ministry should consider all aspects to be of equal weight.
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post Jun 18 2014, 11:44 PM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jun 18 2014, 02:32 PM)
I agree, that was the point that I was trying to make.
Although I am amazed at Sophie's discourse that her old church had a dependent pastor who was unable to make ends meet. Notice that even the disciples had jobs while they were following Jesus around, they didn't just drop their vocations and follow Him around 24/7.
*
If the pastor is full time, it IS his job to look after the sheep, ie members. That itself, takes up a lot of time. It's not just preaching on Sundays, visitations, counselling, giving Bible studies, conducting prayer meetings. Visitation & counselling takes up the bulk of their time. If the church has 100 members or more,can imagine.

If your church is small, then can have lay pastor but the lay pastor cant do much cos he has a day job. Any emergency cant immediately go.
I was helping one of my assistant pastors, from morning to night the pastor is busy with ministry. She was overseeing 3 ministries, I only serve small part in one ministry already have so many things to do.


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post Jun 19 2014, 12:02 AM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 18 2014, 08:43 PM)
I don't mean to defame or insult anyone. I just disagree very much that funding is less important than volunteer. Ministry should consider all aspects to be of equal weight.
*
It's not less important. It's equally important.

Just for the record, no believers of Christ should feel condemn if they're unable to help.

That's why I posted my explanation to spacelion, those who are able to give consistently has been given a gift indeed.

Not everyone has this gift.

My theological perspective from scripture, tithing is important. If everyone tithe truthfully, Churches should not have financial difficulties.

I mean if you are able to do this, you have already done a huge part of helping out the body of Christ, that is from world perspective, if only they understand tithing is more than that. It's a declaration of Faith and declaration proclaiming God is alive.

Problem is, not many Christian believes in tithing. They have 101 excuses when it comes to parting money. Sometime I just shake head, some people can scream till the cow comes home contesting in knowledge how much they know the bible, how much they love God but when it comes to money, every tune start to change.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 19 2014, 12:03 AM
spacelion
post Jun 19 2014, 12:53 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 19 2014, 12:02 AM)
It's not less important. It's equally important.

Just for the record, no believers of Christ should feel condemn if they're unable to help.

That's why I posted my explanation to spacelion, those who are able to give consistently has been given a gift indeed.

Not everyone has this gift.

My theological perspective from scripture, tithing is important. If everyone tithe truthfully, Churches should not have financial difficulties. 

I mean if you are able to do this, you have already done a huge part of helping out the body of Christ, that is from world perspective, if only they understand tithing is more than that. It's a declaration of Faith and declaration proclaiming God is alive.

Problem is, not many Christian believes in tithing. They have 101 excuses when it comes to parting money. Sometime I just shake head, some people can scream till the cow comes home contesting in knowledge how much they know the bible, how much they love God but when it comes to money, every tune start to change.
*
this is not about tithing.
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 19 2014, 01:11 AM

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QUOTE(spacelion @ Jun 19 2014, 12:53 AM)
this is not about tithing.
*
Tithing, offering, Love gift, whatever, still points to money issue.

There's an issue that goes deeper than what you see on the surface.
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post Jun 19 2014, 01:17 AM

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QUOTE(ysuyan @ Jun 18 2014, 05:07 PM)
No one is perfect smile.gif

But in God's eyes we are perfect.

Brother and sisters are meant to take care of each others back ,that's how we encourage each other wink.gif
*
Amen, you know your Bible. biggrin.gif

We need to see things as How God sees it.

Romans 4:17 (KJV) - (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
ysuyan
post Jun 19 2014, 01:45 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 19 2014, 01:17 AM)
Amen, you know your Bible.  biggrin.gif

We need to see things as How God sees it.

Romans 4:17 (KJV) - (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
*
smile.gif
what can I say, as we aged, we go through a lot of things, and there will be one certain point where God really make us alert .
Each one of us is learning God's words everyday.

True that, through His Words, we are being set free.

Matthew 10:8
God said,come to me all you who are weary and burdened,and I will give you rest.

De_Luffy
post Jun 19 2014, 03:38 PM

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QUOTE(rphoen1x @ Jun 18 2014, 09:27 AM)
A nice quiet and inspiring place to just sit and think about life smile.gif Some sort like those monasteries/ashrams up in the mountains for a short religious getaway to find inspiration.
*
do you attended any church right now? if you are not, i invite you to come to Klang Chinese Methodist Church located between Jalan Mohet and Jalan Bukit Jawa, our weekly service start at 9am every sunday and we have our youth service on every friday start at 8pm at old block.

if you are interested to join our English Service at old block start at 9 AM every sunday except on the first week of the month, we will have holy communion service combined at new block.

more info at www.kcmc.org.my. biggrin.gif
rphoen1x
post Jun 19 2014, 08:52 PM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Jun 19 2014, 03:38 PM)
do you attended any church right now? if you are not, i invite you to come to Klang Chinese Methodist Church located between Jalan Mohet and Jalan Bukit Jawa, our weekly service start at 9am every sunday and we have our youth service on every friday start at 8pm at old block.

if you are interested to join our English Service at old block start at 9 AM every sunday except on the first week of the month, we will have holy communion service combined at new block.

more info at www.kcmc.org.my. biggrin.gif
*
Nopes not attending anything at all. Not that interested either. Just wanna find some quiet place with a great inspirational religious environment to write some poems about life sometimes biggrin.gif

But thanks for the invitation. Probably might just drop by one day.

This post has been edited by rphoen1x: Jun 19 2014, 08:53 PM
pehkay
post Jun 20 2014, 07:49 AM

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GOD PAYING ATTENTION NOT TO RIGHT AND WRONG BUT TO CHRIST

In our natural being we cannot avoid the concept of right and wrong. We tend to think that if we do something right, we are pleasing God, and if we do something good, we are in His shining. We seldom realize that what God pays attention to is beyond goodness and beyond right and wrong. What God pays attention to is whether we do things out of Christ or out of ourselves. According to our concept God rejects what is wrong and accepts what is right. In God’s view, however, only that which is of Christ is acceptable; whatever is of ourselves, whether good or bad, is utterly rejected by God. God’s view is different from man's view. God does not take right and wrong or good and evil as the criterion; He takes Christ as the criterion. Whatever is not of Christ, whether good or bad, is not acceptable to God. Only that which is lived out in Christ and by Christ can be accepted by God. In short, what God wants in us is not what we live out but what Christ lives out through us.

THE DIFFICULTY OF MAN IN CEASING HIS ACTIVITIES

However, there is a big problem. Since man is a living being, having his own preference, thinking, emotion, will, and choice, how can he not live out himself? How can he cease all his activities and let Christ live out through him? This is truly a difficult matter. Not only is it difficult to stop ourselves in big matters, it is even more difficult to stop ourselves in small matters. For example, if we are really enjoying ourselves in a conversation with someone, it is not easy for us to stop ourselves. Even if we stop talking outwardly, we may still murmur within. It is difficult for us to simply listen while others are telling us something. This shows us that when a person is active, it is not easy for him to stop his activity.

In the service of the church today we often do things out of ourselves. Apparently, the things we do are good, right, and profitable, but actually they are done out of ourselves. We may even know that we do them out of ourselves, yet it is still difficult for us to stop. To a certain extent we all have experienced this. Consider reading the Bible as an example. Sometimes while we are enjoying reading the Word, we may get an inward feeling that we should spend a little time to pray for the church. According to spiritual principles, once we have such a feeling, we should immediately stop reading and pray instead. However, usually we are not willing to stop. This again shows us that it is not easy for us to stop our activity.

It is the same with the matter of fellowship. Sometimes we may fellowship with someone to a point where we are full of joy and want to continue talking with him, but we have a feeling within us that we should go visit a saint who is sick or has a problem. It is one thing to have the willingness to fellowship with others, but it is another thing to have the feeling to go and visit the saints. However, because we are too willing to fellowship, we are unable to stop, and because we are enjoying the fellowship, we would not visit the saints.
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 20 2014, 02:33 PM

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Bible Devotions with UW

How do you live the New Life?

QUOTE
Colossians 3:10 - and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.


I want to address to Christians who are struggling to live the new life that Christ has given you.

Sometimes in the course of our lives, we may slip here and there, falling short of the mark, God has set. You feel there's a distance from God, you feel condemn.
And sometimes Preachers enforce, you MUST do this and that and this, You MUST REPENT!, YOU MUST CONFESS, YOU MUST LOVE GOD, followup with a message of condemnation.
GOD WILL JUDGE every action and every words. They meant well but the focus is wrong because it hinges on the believer.

What does the Bible say?

Hebrews 12:2 - Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.........
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 - May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it.

WHO IS the author and the finisher of our Faith? Jesus. WHO IS the one who sanctify us and keep our spirit, soul and body blameless? WHO WILL DO IT? Jesus.
Look at the 2 verses above. Anywhere in there, that says we are the one who need to exert the work to make ourselves righteous, living the new life? No.

Let me begin by saying the new life doesn't come through exerted will power of our own. It will only Fail if you do through that. (Romans 7:19)
"I must not sin, I must not sin, I must not sin, etc" It doesn't work through the flesh.

Consider these 2 chapters
Ephesians 4: 21-24
21 when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

Colossians 3: 1-10
1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. 5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.b 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being [B]renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator[/B].

So here is the revelation. The new life comes through the change of mind. (Knowledge) Question. change of what mind? Answer: the knowledge in the image of it's creator (Colossians 3:10)
What do you mean? What is the knowledge in the image of it's creator? Answer: to Know that you are now in Christ. The more you see yourself in Christ, that Christ has removed your sins, made you whole, made you new, washed you, sanctified you, cleansed you and be convinced in the mind, YOU WILL CHANGE.

I'll leave you with this last verse for the day.

Romans 12:2 (KJV) - King James Bible
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

I pray that this will help you in your spiritual life.

God Bless.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 21 2014, 09:27 AM
SUSsylar111
post Jun 22 2014, 02:46 AM

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Just curious. What do you guys think about psychiatry.
Thanks
De_Luffy
post Jun 22 2014, 08:32 AM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 22 2014, 02:46 AM)
Just curious. What do you guys think about psychiatry.
Thanks
*
in what term?
SUSsylar111
post Jun 22 2014, 05:21 PM

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QUOTE(De_Luffy @ Jun 22 2014, 08:32 AM)
in what term?
*
Do you think psychiatry is anti christian.

De_Luffy
post Jun 22 2014, 05:29 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 22 2014, 05:21 PM)
Do you think psychiatry is anti christian.
*
not sure, it could be it could not hmm.gif
pehkay
post Jun 22 2014, 06:01 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 22 2014, 02:46 AM)
Just curious. What do you guys think about psychiatry.
Thanks
*
Erm .... it is just to treat the soul. Though historically, it has its issues and controversy. I think it is the same with Psychology though psychiatry deals more with mental disorder.


Well, .... it's good to know that you are a tripartite man (spirit, soul and body). Even if a Christian is strong in his/her spirit, a problem in their soul (psychologically) will still override any benefits in their experience of Christ. All three parts of our being needs to be proper and functioning (c.f. 1 Thes. 5:23) to be useful to the Lord and also to pursue Him.

We should not try to spiritualize things. If we have problems like depression or psychological problems, please, seek medical expertise. Because Satan will use the severely damaged and fallen soul to contemplate suicide (for example). No matter, how high or how deep your experience of Christ in your spirit, if the soul or the body is destroyed, your Christian life ends there.

Once their soul (psychology) is "treated", then the experience of the Lord's grace and the prayers of the believers (in the spirit) is needed to overcome the problem.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 22 2014, 06:10 PM
Sophiera
post Jun 22 2014, 06:14 PM

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Then those people commit suicide macam mana?
SUSsylar111
post Jun 22 2014, 06:49 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 22 2014, 06:01 PM)
Erm .... it is just to treat the soul. Though historically, it has its issues and controversy. I think it is the same with Psychology though psychiatry deals more with mental disorder.
Well, .... it's good to know that you are a tripartite man (spirit, soul and body). Even if a Christian is strong in his/her spirit, a problem in their soul (psychologically) will still override any benefits in their experience of Christ. All three parts of our being needs to be proper and functioning (c.f. 1 Thes. 5:23) to be useful to the Lord and also to pursue Him.

We should not try to spiritualize things. If we have problems like depression or psychological problems, please, seek medical expertise. Because Satan will use the severely damaged and fallen soul to contemplate suicide (for example). No matter, how high or how deep your experience of Christ in your spirit, if the soul or the body is destroyed, your Christian life ends there.

Once their soul (psychology) is "treated", then the experience of the Lord's grace and the prayers of the believers (in the spirit) is needed to overcome the problem.
*
So you feel that the bible itself is not able to treat the soul. I am pretty sure I can find many verses that states that the bible is able to treat the soul.

So you feel that something that actually contradicts the bible can actually treat the soul. Because remember the people who started psychiatry are not really holy people.

I do not believe that a Christian will commit suicide though. Because it would probably mean that the Holy Spirit was not really guiding him. Of course there may be cases whereby a Christian may commit suicide due to a sudden impact or something but then to say that a Christian will commit suicide as an end to a means(longer period) I think is pretty absurd because if that is the case, then what is so different with a Christian compared to the rest of the world.

You mention that you should seek medical expertise. Do you even know what happens to a person after he undergo psychiatric treatment. Do you know what happens when a person is on medication. Do you even know that electric shock treatment was one of the treatment in psychiatry before. Do you understand how psychiatric medication works? D

Why would you think that (psychiatric) self motivation books are better then the bible even though there are so many verses in the bible that is supposed to lift up the spirit(motivate) a believer.

Ok I am just going to stop with my aggressive stance over here as my aim is just to find out whether this thread is suitable for me.

PS:Just asking. Because I think many of you perhaps know my stance towards psychiatry. I am just asking to see what is your stance generally as a group.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Jun 22 2014, 07:12 PM
pehkay
post Jun 22 2014, 07:53 PM

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sweat.gif Whoah I think you just need to step back a bit and stand on my shoe tongue.gif

Seriously, I don't know you or any of your stance. I just shared my opinion. This is just my opinion and not the group here [though why do you need to see if you are suitable here?? Are you a Christian? ]

Also, IMHO, your stance might have cause you assume that I made statement that I DO NOT make smile.gif

Firstly, I did not say "feel that the bible itself is not able to treat the soul". There are quite a few verses, especially, the Spirit giving life to our mind and renews them. But the condition requires as in Romans 8, to set our mind on the spirit. If our mind is in a bad condition, there is no need to say how one can experience the Spirit's life. The Holy Spirit is leading the saints all the time. Yet, we have to let or give room to it. If one, does not give room to it, he can be just like be living like an unbeliever. Do note that the will of man is part of the soul. When it is damaged, how can one made a coherent choice ?

I know of some of controversy in psychiatric like you mentioned. I think we can make some judgement not to go for electrical shock or not go for psychiatric at all. On the other extreme, if there is a real need for some treatment, we should not superstitiously say it is not Biblical or something.

But on the other hand, I also know those who benefited from the medication because he or she suffers from schizophrenia. Then he/she is "sober" enough to continue to experience the Lord.

Also, I didn't say that psychiatry books are more important than the Bible. sweat.gif Personally, if you read my sharing from the Gospel of John, you will see the self-help books in general are useless.

Lastly, this thread is about sharing on the experiences of Christ for the building up of the church. It is not about psychiatry or a collection of like-minded people tongue.gif

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 22 2014, 08:12 PM
TruthHurts
post Jun 22 2014, 08:00 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 20 2014, 02:33 PM)
Bible Devotions with UW

How do you live the New Life?
I want to address to Christians who are struggling to live the new life that Christ has given you.

Sometimes in the course of our lives, we may slip here and there, falling short of the mark, God has set. You feel there's a distance from God, you feel condemn.
And sometimes Preachers enforce, you MUST do this and that and this, You MUST REPENT!, YOU MUST CONFESS, YOU MUST LOVE GOD, followup with a message of condemnation.
GOD WILL JUDGE every action and every words. They meant well but the focus is wrong because it hinges on the believer.

What does the Bible say?

Hebrews 12:2  - Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.........
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 - May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. The one who calls you is faithful, and he will do it.

WHO IS the author and the finisher of our Faith? Jesus. WHO IS the one who sanctify us and keep our spirit, soul and body blameless? WHO WILL DO IT? Jesus.
Look at the 2 verses above. Anywhere in there, that says we are the one who need to exert the work to make ourselves righteous, living the new life? No.

Let me begin by saying the new life doesn't come through exerted will power of our own. It will only Fail if you do through that. (Romans 7:19)
"I must not sin, I must not sin, I must not sin, etc" It doesn't work through the flesh.

Consider these 2 chapters
Ephesians 4: 21-24
21 when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

Colossians 3: 1-10
1 Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. 2 Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. 3 For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. 5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.b 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being [B]renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator[/B].

So here is the revelation. The new life comes through the change of mind. (Knowledge) Question. change of what mind? Answer: the knowledge in the image of it's creator (Colossians 3:10)
What do you mean? What is the knowledge in the image of it's creator? Answer: to Know that you are now in Christ. The more you see yourself in Christ, that Christ has removed your sins, made you whole, made you new, washed you, sanctified you, cleansed you and be convinced in the mind, YOU WILL CHANGE.

I'll leave you with this last verse for the day.

Romans 12:2 (KJV) - King James Bible
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

I pray that this will help you in your spiritual life.

God Bless.
*
Thank GOD and Jesus Christ !! AMEN !!

pehkay
post Jun 22 2014, 08:11 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 22 2014, 06:14 PM)
Then those people commit suicide macam mana?
*
Is this asking about salvation again? tongue.gif
Sophiera
post Jun 22 2014, 08:20 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 22 2014, 08:11 PM)
Is this asking about salvation again? tongue.gif
*
No lah, ini spirit sick or soul sick.

But then again Catholics believe that is the surest way to go to hell. Then again, catholics got a lot of stuff wrong.
SUSsylar111
post Jun 22 2014, 08:24 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 22 2014, 07:53 PM)
sweat.gif Whoah I think you just need to step back a bit and stand on my shoe tongue.gif

Seriously, I don't know you or any of your stance. I just shared my opinion. This is just my opinion and not the group here [though why do you need to see if you are suitable here?? Are you a Christian? ]

Also, IMHO, your stance might have cause you assume that I made statement that I DO NOT make smile.gif

Firstly, I did not say "feel that the bible itself is not able to treat the soul". There are quite a few verses, especially, the Spirit giving life to our mind and renews them.  But the condition requires as in Romans 8, to set our mind on the spirit. If our mind is in a bad condition, there is no need to say how one can experience the Spirit's life.

I know of some of controversy in psychiatric like you mentioned. I think we can make some judgement not to go for electrical shock. On the other extreme, if there is a real need for some treatment, we should not superstitiously say it is not Biblical or something.

But on the other hand, I also know those who benefited from the medication because he or she suffers from schizophrenia. Then he/she is "sober" enough to continue to experience the Lord.

Also, I didn't say that psychiatry books are more important than the Bible.  sweat.gif Personally, if you read my sharing from the Gospel of John, you will see the self-help books in general are useless.

Lastly, this thread is about sharing on the experiences of Christ for the building up of the church. It is not about psychiatry or a collection of like-minded people tongue.gif
*
I think the answer whether I am a Christian or not is pretty obvious.
And just because I am a Christian that does not mean that I need to take part in a forum just because it claims to be a Christian. (PS I think you are pretty much insulting me because you are claiming that I am not a christian even though from my post so far, it is pretty obvious that I am one. You would most likely deny this but then I know you are doing that because there is no reason for you to make that statement that you make. Can you stop doing this because this is a Christian forum?)

I think as Christian if we cannot even agree on the most basic things, then whatever encouragement that you give to me will look to be shallow. Sorry to say this. That is why I need to see what the majority of the people think about this. Not just you. Because I am pretty sure that there are many others who would not have the same view as you but the thing is that if generally we are not agreeable in most things, I think the fellowship is pretty much useless.

I have already proven to you that psychiatry actually advocates electric shock treatment. If psychiatry was not dangerous, it would not have advocate this kind of treatment. The fact that you are not willing to investigate psychiatry on whether it is dangerous even though it advocates something dangerous, shows that you are not willing to accept whether psychiatry is dangerous.

Your assumption is that psychiatry will make a person's mind sober enough. Have you actually studied psychiatry enough to know this. Because my understanding is that for Schizhophrenia treatment, what the medication does is that it slows down neuron transmission. In other words, the person appear to be less agitated but in actual fact, he becomes less sensitive. He may appear sober, but he would not be able to understand what the pastors or even what his brothers and sisters are saying from a basic intellectual level much more a spiritual level.

I think you are saying that not following psychiatry is superstitious because psychiatry happens to be in the mainstream. I think saying that something is acceptable without FINDING OUT whether it is acceptable is superstitious. Dun you think so?

I never said that psychiatry is the main discussion topic. I am just using this topic to evaluate whether this forum is suitable for me. Because to me, if you are preaching Christianity but yet at the same time accept mainstream as the truth and do not QUESTION them, then to me, this is not real Christianity. Because I think we are supposed to be the light of the world and if we are not even willing to speak against lies but are even willing to accept those lies in the first place, then to me, the foundation is not firm in the first place and I think it will collapse over time.
pehkay
post Jun 22 2014, 08:25 PM

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Our spirit cannot be sick smile.gif. That is the only place Satan cannot touch.

Our soul is another story. Since the fall, it is in terrible shape tongue.gif
SUSsylar111
post Jun 22 2014, 08:27 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 22 2014, 08:25 PM)
Our spirit cannot be sick smile.gif. That is the only place Satan cannot touch.

Our soul is another story. Since the fall, it is in terrible shape tongue.gif
*
And the soul has been treated by Christian Councillors for a long period of time even before psychiatry was founded.
SUSsylar111
post Jun 22 2014, 08:32 PM

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The other thing I wish to highlight. Many of the mass gun shootings has been shown to be caused by psychotic medications. Of course the argument is that those people are already mentally ill and thus it was they themselves who was fully at fault. But I would leave you guys to study more if you are interested in this.

And I would like to highlight, often times, psychotic medication makes people even more depress over time even though they seem calmer. But then the ends is more important then the means right?

To be honest, this is really the first time I ever heard that psychiatry actually helps the soul. What more from a fellow Christian brother.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Jun 22 2014, 08:33 PM
pehkay
post Jun 22 2014, 08:42 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 22 2014, 08:24 PM)
I think the answer whether I am a Christian or not is pretty obvious.
And just because I am a Christian that does not mean that I need to take part in a forum just because it claims to be a Christian. (PS I think you are pretty much insulting me because you are claiming that I am not a christian even though from my post so far, it is pretty obvious that I am one. You would most likely deny this but then I know you are doing that because there is no reason for you to make that statement that you make.  Can you stop doing this because this is a Christian forum?)
Seriously sweat.gif I really think you need to reread what I post. I did not accuse you of anything.

QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 22 2014, 08:24 PM)
I think as Christian if we cannot even agree on the most basic things, then whatever encouragement that you give to me will look to be shallow. Sorry to say this. That is why I need to see what the majority of the people think about this. Not just you. Because I am pretty sure that there are many others who would not have the same view as you but the thing is that if generally we are not agreeable in most things, I think the fellowship is pretty much useless.
Erm ... fellowship is the flow of the divine life. It is not to be agreeable. I meant, if you meet a vegetarian brother, we don't condemn him of his weak faith, but continue to fellowship with him. Unless it is sinful, divisive or worldly.

QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 22 2014, 08:24 PM)
I have already proven to you that psychiatry actually advocates electric shock treatment. If psychiatry was not dangerous, it would not have advocate this kind of treatment. The fact that you are not willing to investigate psychiatry on whether it is dangerous even though it advocates something dangerous, shows that you are not willing to accept whether psychiatry is dangerous.

Your assumption is that psychiatry will make a person's mind sober enough. Have you actually studied psychiatry enough to know this. Because my understanding is that for Schizhophrenia treatment, what the medication does is that it slows down neuron transmission. In other words, the person appear to be less agitated but in actual fact, he becomes less sensitive. He may appear sober, but he would not be able to understand what the pastors or even what his brothers and sisters are saying from a basic intellectual level much more a spiritual level.
Then, don't go for psychiatry then. rolleyes.gif

QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 22 2014, 08:24 PM)
I think you are saying that not following psychiatry is superstitious because psychiatry happens to be in the mainstream. I think saying that something is acceptable without FINDING OUT whether it is acceptable is superstitious. Dun you think so?
Again, I did not say that that not following psychiatry is superstitious. Whoah, it is really hard when you are making statements like this. I don't even know what you meant by mainstream? Whether one make a decision to get some help from psychological consultation is between him and the Lord and finding OUT whether it entails ... Really, you are putting words that I do not say.

QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 22 2014, 08:24 PM)
I never said that psychiatry is the main discussion topic. I am just using this topic to evaluate whether this forum is suitable for me. Because to me, if you are preaching Christianity but yet at the same time accept mainstream as the truth and do not QUESTION them, then to me, this is not real Christianity. Because I think we are supposed to be the light of the world and if we are not even willing to speak against lies but are even willing to accept those lies in the first place, then to me, the foundation is not firm in the first place and I think it will collapse over time.
*
Who say about one NOT making an informed decision? tongue.gif <Sigh> Christianity is neither about NOT accepting mainstream as truth or question them ... bro, it is about God's purpose and the revelation of Himself. Once we see this, we will see the the world is against it.

Anyway, I am done responding on this.

Cheers!

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 22 2014, 08:51 PM
pehkay
post Jun 22 2014, 09:04 PM

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QUOTE(Sophiera @ Jun 22 2014, 08:20 PM)
No lah, ini spirit sick or soul sick.

But then again Catholics believe that is the surest way to go to hell. Then again, catholics got a lot of stuff wrong.
*
It is actually the fastest way to hell for unbelievers. Then again, it is extremely RARE for one who touch his spirit when he/she believe in the Lord to. A strong salvation usually has a good foundation even if ones backslides.

Hypothetically, if he is saved [really touch the Lord, receive Him into him AND NOT A INHERITED/FAMILY RELIGION and commit suicide], he is still saved but DEFINITELY not a mature Christian. He will be punished dispensationally in the millennium.


LOL, still have to response to your salvation question ... my bad, sis.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 22 2014, 09:05 PM
SUSsylar111
post Jun 22 2014, 11:04 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 22 2014, 08:42 PM)
Seriously  sweat.gif I really think you need to reread what I post. I did not accuse you of anything.
Erm ... fellowship is the flow of the divine life. It is not to be agreeable. I meant, if you meet a vegetarian brother, we don't condemn him of his weak faith, but continue to fellowship with him. Unless it is sinful, divisive or worldly.
Then, don't go for psychiatry then.  rolleyes.gif
Again, I did not say that that not following psychiatry is superstitious. Whoah, it is really hard when you are making statements like this. I don't even know what you meant by mainstream? Whether one make a decision to get some help from psychological consultation is between him and the Lord and finding OUT whether it entails ... Really, you are putting words that I do not say.
Who say about one NOT making an informed decision?  tongue.gif <Sigh> Christianity is neither about NOT accepting mainstream as truth or question them ... bro, it is about God's purpose and the revelation of Himself. Once we see this, we will see the the world is against it.

Anyway, I am done responding on this.

Cheers!
*
Well you did ask me whether I am a Christian. If I ask you the same question, would you find it insulting. I guess you would especially in this kind of setting. I would not have posted what I have posted if I was a non believer. Perhaps you did not meant it, but then you perhaps make that claim because you are in disagreement of what I have said. If I did not make a claim in this setting, you would not have question my faith.

Well, truth is absolute. I would not condemned a vegetarian brother of weak faith, but then I would not take what he says seriously as well. I mean if a brother lacks basic understanding in this aspect, you would not really trust his understanding in the other spiritual aspects. Of course I will not doubt his salvation and will continue to treat him as a brother but that does not mean I will not treat his words cautiously.

Well. I wrote that to arrr counter your argument on psychiatry. You could just admit you do not understand instead of putting remarks like that. It tells a lot right?

You did say the following statement "we should not superstitiously say it is not Biblical or something." As a Christian, can you at least have some basic integrity? Because now I am even more doubtful of you.

Actually, the bible does tell us to examine everything. And yes, a Christian is supposed to question the mainstream because we know that man are sinful. So basically, many of what the mainstream does is not really out of good intent even though many people would not see that because they do not understand that man are intrinsically sinful. Since we are the light of the world, we should expose those lies outwardly.

And as Christians we are supposed to differentiate ourselves with the world. We are supposed to let the world know ultimately that we are different from them. And looking at your explanations, I see that you are not doing that.

Seems like this is looking more and more like RWI
SUSsylar111
post Jun 22 2014, 11:30 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 22 2014, 09:04 PM)
It is actually the fastest way to hell for unbelievers. Then again, it is extremely RARE for one who touch his spirit when he/she believe in the Lord to. A strong salvation usually has a good foundation even if ones backslides.

Hypothetically, if he is saved [really touch the Lord, receive Him into him AND NOT A INHERITED/FAMILY RELIGION and commit suicide], he is still saved but DEFINITELY not a mature Christian. He will be punished dispensationally in the millennium.
LOL, still have to response to your salvation question ... my bad, sis.
*
If someone is punished, it means that this person still has sins. When a person has died in his sins, he is basically condemned.

A true Christian will still enter into heaven even though he has committed suicide. He may not be rewarded as much though but he will still enter heaven. Basically all his sins are forgiven and so there is nothing to be punished

Incredible. This is really getting to be an eyeopener
14-9-2015
post Jun 23 2014, 12:03 AM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 22 2014, 11:30 PM)
If someone is punished, it means that this person still has sins. When a person has died in his sins, he is basically condemned.

A true Christian will still enter into heaven even though he has committed suicide. He may not be rewarded as much though but he will still enter heaven. Basically all his sins are forgiven and so there is nothing to be punished

Incredible. This is really getting to be an eyeopener
*
Hi Sylar,

I'm not gonna comment on the psychiatry part mainly because my knowledge is too shallow on the said topic. Just been sitting on the sidelines to see how others respond.

I do however feel that if a saved person commits suicide, God will still accept them into his open arms on the other side. I agree with you. On how it could be possible for Christians to commit suicide, it could be due to extreme duress or a sudden moment of terrible weakness maybe?
Since we are still living in the flesh on this Earth & are susceptible to sin?

p.s. i don't know any or have yet to hear of any Christians committing suicide.
p.p.s. i do follow your posts occasionally under the other sections & i enjoy your debates.
SUSsylar111
post Jun 23 2014, 12:15 AM

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QUOTE(14-9-2015 @ Jun 23 2014, 12:03 AM)
Hi Sylar,

I'm not gonna comment on the psychiatry part mainly because my knowledge is too shallow on the said topic. Just been sitting on the sidelines to see how others respond.

I do however feel that if a saved person commits suicide, God will still accept them into his open arms on the other side. I agree with you. On how it could be possible for Christians to commit suicide, it could be due to extreme duress or a sudden moment of terrible weakness maybe?
Since we are still living in the flesh on this Earth & are susceptible to sin? 

p.s.      i don't know any or have yet to hear of any Christians committing suicide.
p.p.s.  i do follow your posts occasionally under the other sections & i enjoy your debates.
*
Well. It's possible for a Christian to commit suicide. But then what I believe is that as you said, it is most likely a sudden moment of weakness whereby the Christian does not have time to contemplate. If a Christian did have time to contemplate, it would be very much more difficult or even impossible because he would be able to consult with God through prayer. The final end of God for A christian would not be suicide and I believe that if a Christian has more time to contemplate, he would not end up in suicide.


TSunknown warrior
post Jun 23 2014, 09:39 AM

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QUOTE(TruthHurts @ Jun 22 2014, 08:00 PM)
Thank GOD and Jesus Christ !! AMEN !!
*
Well Yes, Thank God it is Christ Jesus that's the one who will change us.

It's like this.

1) If you see yourself that is going to need to be changed and you tell yourself, you need to repent and walk righteously with all the will power you can muster, You will fail.

But


2) If you look to Christ Jesus and acknowledge; HE IS THE ONE who has cleansed you, has made you righteous, you WILL walk in obedience. Noticed the past tensed?


Obedience to God doesn't come through this chest beating, remorseful type of repentance and crying at the Altar. That type of repentance is still very much in the Flesh type of repentance, meaning it's Man's way.

What is God's way? God's way of repentance, happens in the change of mindset.

It comes through being humbled in knowing that God is good, God has cleansed even when you fall into Sin. Yes, you guys heard me right.

You may want to contemplate what I just said. May take few more time reading before it sink into the soul and spirit.

God Bless.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 23 2014, 09:46 AM
jozs88
post Jun 23 2014, 10:19 AM

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Hi guys,

Since we're on the topic of science vs religion (psychiatry VS Bible teachings).

I've always wondered and questioned those that say that the verses of the Bible is absolute even though present day science has proven them wrong.

A very good example would be back in the olden days when some scientifically minded dude said the world was round and the earth rotated around the sun and not vice versa. He was shunned and threatened by religious authorities and everyone around him because they were taught that whatever the church says "It is right". Saying the earth was round was blasphemous and a sin and a one way ticket to hell.

But fast forward many years later, when the world has indeed been confirmed to be round and rotates around the sun, the religous guys just went quiet. Thanks to non-religious guys, we know we have 24 hours in a day, 365 days and leap years, birthdays, better navigation accross the earth, etc etc. and from there, today we have Google Maps and Facebook tongue.gif

Don't you think that we ought to have a balance between science and religion? Can't we balance psychiatric treatments with God's teachings?

What do y'all think?
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post Jun 23 2014, 10:42 AM

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QUOTE(jozs88 @ Jun 23 2014, 10:19 AM)
Hi guys,

Since we're on the topic of science vs religion (psychiatry VS Bible teachings).

I've always wondered and questioned those that say that the verses of the Bible is absolute even though present day science has proven them wrong.

A very good example would be back in the olden days when some scientifically minded dude said the world was round and the earth rotated around the sun and not vice versa. He was shunned and threatened by religious authorities and everyone around him because they were taught that whatever the church says "It is right". Saying the earth was round was blasphemous and a sin and a one way ticket to hell.

But fast forward many years later, when the world has indeed been confirmed to be round and rotates around the sun, the religous guys just went quiet. Thanks to non-religious guys, we know we have 24 hours in a day, 365 days and leap years, birthdays, better navigation accross the earth, etc etc. and from there, today we have Google Maps and Facebook tongue.gif

Don't you think that we ought to have a balance between science and religion? Can't we balance psychiatric treatments with God's teachings?

What do y'all think?
*
I'm very passionate about interpreting Bible verses, I don't think there's any verses that actually says Earth is flat.

Show me if there is, and I can prove you where it s understood wrongly.

And for the record, it has never been Science Against Bible Teaching.

The Bible is not a manual about Science anyway, so to say we need to strike a balance is totally off tangent.

I've always said this but nobody seems to understand. God allow Man to advance in knowledge, to discover how thing works, Man calls it Science but that does not mean Science nullify the existence of God because God exist and operates outside the confinement of time and space.

To say that God must be confine to the discovery of Science, it totally diminish the concept of God. That is not God. I don't know how to put that in better perspective.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 23 2014, 10:48 AM
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 23 2014, 11:01 AM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 23 2014, 12:15 AM)
Well. It's possible for a Christian to commit suicide. But then what I believe is that as you said, it is most likely a sudden moment of weakness whereby the Christian does not have time to contemplate. If a Christian did have time to contemplate, it would be very much more difficult or even impossible because he would be able to consult with God through prayer. The final end of God for A christian would not be suicide and I believe that if a Christian has more time to contemplate, he would not end up in suicide.
*
Suicide doesn't happen by momentary lapse of weakness. What I mean is, it doesn't happen just like that.

It starts way, waaay before that.

It's accumulated through a period of pain, disappointment, depression, lack of understanding, hurt, etc.

Could be years, months before that.

Most likely, suicide tendency happen when the person gave up hope, God, everything.

From there, it starts.
pehkay
post Jun 23 2014, 11:05 AM

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QUOTE(jozs88 @ Jun 23 2014, 10:19 AM)
Hi guys,

Since we're on the topic of science vs religion (psychiatry VS Bible teachings).

I've always wondered and questioned those that say that the verses of the Bible is absolute even though present day science has proven them wrong.

A very good example would be back in the olden days when some scientifically minded dude said the world was round and the earth rotated around the sun and not vice versa. He was shunned and threatened by religious authorities and everyone around him because they were taught that whatever the church says "It is right". Saying the earth was round was blasphemous and a sin and a one way ticket to hell.

But fast forward many years later, when the world has indeed been confirmed to be round and rotates around the sun, the religous guys just went quiet. Thanks to non-religious guys, we know we have 24 hours in a day, 365 days and leap years, birthdays, better navigation accross the earth, etc etc. and from there, today we have Google Maps and Facebook tongue.gif

Don't you think that we ought to have a balance between science and religion? Can't we balance psychiatric treatments with God's teachings?

What do y'all think?
*
Is there? Are you referring to Galileo? If yes, the topic was not on that the world is flat. biggrin.gif

Erm ... Our 24-hour day comes from the ancient Egyptians who divided day-time into 10 hours they measured with devices such as shadow clocks, and added a twilight hour at the beginning and another one at the end of the day-time. And believe me, they were really religious tongue.gif

I think there is no balancing needed as science is only a tool. It cuts both ways. I am familiar with quantum mechanics, general relativity, evolution and string theories [well as a layman], and it can only describe a physical universe as best as it can be [but still with its problems] but cannot infer / implied anything absolutely ... ironically that will be the philosophy of science. Yet what it describes of our physical universe, I find it really marvellous and at best confirming creation declared in shadow of the attributes of the Creator tongue.gif

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 23 2014, 11:31 AM
pehkay
post Jun 23 2014, 11:24 AM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 22 2014, 11:30 PM)
If someone is punished, it means that this person still has sins. When a person has died in his sins, he is basically condemned.

A true Christian will still enter into heaven even though he has committed suicide. He may not be rewarded as much though but he will still enter heaven. Basically all his sins are forgiven and so there is nothing to be punished

Incredible. This is really getting to be an eyeopener
*
Erm ... are you responding to Sophierre or me? Oh well, ignore this if you are responding to her. laugh.gif I always that this problem with quotes.

My understanding is a little different sweat.gif as I do not believe in "going to heaven", and thus a myth tongue.gif. I believe we have a higher destiny than that based on the revelation in the Bible.

The response to her was premised on some earlier sharing I had with her. That, even though our salvation is secure, the reward of the kingdom is not (1 Cor. 3:15). If a believer is not matured in the divine life in this age, he will have to go through dispensation punishment in the millennial kingdom where the overcoming believers will enjoy the rewards as co-kings. The defeated believers will be "trained"/"discipled" so that they are will be matured after 1000 years.

But then, this is just a supporting line. cool.gif


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post Jun 23 2014, 11:33 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 23 2014, 11:01 AM)
Suicide doesn't happen by momentary lapse of weakness. What I mean is, it doesn't happen just like that.

It starts way, waaay before that.

It's accumulated through a period of pain, disappointment, depression, lack of understanding, hurt, etc.

Could be years, months before that.

Most likely, suicide tendency happen when the person gave up hope, God, everything.

From there, it starts.
*
Actually suicide can happen almost instantly.

Very simple example is an Economic crisis. You see people commit suicide almost immediately. You cannot really argue from this stance that they were depressed before that. It's the confusion that happens when they lose almost all their wealth and goes into bankruptcy.

I believe that under this kind of confusion, it is possible that a Christian can actually commit suicide because they are at such a confused as well as panic state, they really have no time to seek for God's guidance.

On the other hand, I think it is almost impossible for a Christian to actually commit suicide under the context you are talking about because they have a lot of time to contemplate on what to do next and if they are real believers, God will definitely be able to give them direction. It is actually during those time that faith becomes stronger for real christian because they realize that they cannot depend on themselves but they have to surrender totally to God.
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post Jun 23 2014, 11:47 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 23 2014, 11:24 AM)
Erm ... are you responding to Sophierre or me? Oh well, ignore this if you are responding to her.  laugh.gif I always that this problem with quotes.

My understanding is a little different  sweat.gif as I do not believe in "going to heaven", and thus a myth tongue.gif. I believe we have a higher destiny than that based on the revelation in the Bible.

The response to her was premised on some earlier sharing I had with her. That, even though our salvation is secure, the reward of the kingdom is not (1 Cor. 3:15). If a believer is not matured in the divine life in this age, he will have to go through dispensation punishment in the millennial kingdom where the overcoming believers will enjoy the rewards as co-kings. The defeated believers will be "trained"/"discipled" so that they are will be matured after 1000 years.

But then, this is just a supporting line.  cool.gif
*
I know that your denomination belong to watchman nee or something which I really do not conider part of conventional Christianity or true christianity as a matter of fact.

The bible did mentioned heaven many time and also of the promises that believers will get to heaven at the end. If you do not believe in "going to heaven", then why are you calling yourself christian? Are you mocking God's promises?

I think if God is willing to forgive us, there will be no more sins in his eyes.

The bible never mentioned about what you just said. The bible never mentioned about any training for 1000 years. It only mentions that Jesus will be ruling over here for 1000 years with the saints. As to what really happen(All saints revived?) This one is a theological one and will need to be discussed in other context. But what I am pretty sure is no "training" will be done over that 1000 year time period you are talking about to "unmaturing believers"

Well, reward and punishments are 2 different issue.

Anyway, thanks. But I am not interested in reading fairy tales.

Actually Unknown Warrior. No one ever took him to task before?

This post has been edited by sylar111: Jun 23 2014, 11:53 AM
SUSsylar111
post Jun 23 2014, 12:14 PM

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QUOTE(jozs88 @ Jun 23 2014, 10:19 AM)
Hi guys,

Since we're on the topic of science vs religion (psychiatry VS Bible teachings).

I've always wondered and questioned those that say that the verses of the Bible is absolute even though present day science has proven them wrong.

A very good example would be back in the olden days when some scientifically minded dude said the world was round and the earth rotated around the sun and not vice versa. He was shunned and threatened by religious authorities and everyone around him because they were taught that whatever the church says "It is right". Saying the earth was round was blasphemous and a sin and a one way ticket to hell.

But fast forward many years later, when the world has indeed been confirmed to be round and rotates around the sun, the religous guys just went quiet. Thanks to non-religious guys, we know we have 24 hours in a day, 365 days and leap years, birthdays, better navigation accross the earth, etc etc. and from there, today we have Google Maps and Facebook tongue.gif

Don't you think that we ought to have a balance between science and religion? Can't we balance psychiatric treatments with God's teachings?

What do y'all think?
*
Actually I would argue that if religion(Christianity) was not revived during the reformation era, the science that we know of today may not even exist.

Sorry, we really cannot balance psychiatric treatments with God's teaching because they are mutually exclusive.

Secondly, the assumption that you are making is that psyhiatric treatment will make the patient better. There are many evidence that this is otherwise actually. If you consider making the patient better as being in a non violent state, then so be it. There has been studies that links psychiatric treatment with mass shootings actually.

I do not see the reason why science should be a greater truth compared to religion. Psychiatry is not really science actually because the effects cannot be reproduce. It is known that a diagnosis for the same patients can differ with different psychiatrist.

God's teaching is totally against psychiatry. So I do not see how they can exist together.
pehkay
post Jun 23 2014, 12:35 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 23 2014, 11:47 AM)
I know that your denomination belong to watchman nee or something which I really do not conider part of conventional Christianity or true christianity as a matter of fact.

The bible did mentioned heaven many time and also of the promises that believers will get to heaven at the end. If you do not believe in "going to heaven", then why are you calling yourself christian? Are you mocking God's promises?

I think if God is willing to forgive us, there will be no more sins in his eyes.



Actually Unknown Warrior. No one ever took him to task before?
*
sweat.gif Whether I am of conventional Christianity or true christianity, or of a denomination or not etc, you can always make that statement. But please do substantiate your claims please in the spirit of fellowship. Just because my views on "going to heaven" are not of "mainstream" Christianity, it invalidates me as a believers? Did I not believe in the Triune God? Christ? The Spirit?

"I think if God is willing to forgive us, there will be no more sins in his eyes." Err.. duh! biggrin.gif

QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 23 2014, 11:47 AM)
The bible never mentioned about what you just said. The bible never mentioned about any training for 1000 years. It only mentions that Jesus will be ruling over here for 1000 years with the saints. As to what really happen(All saints revived?) This one is a theological one and will need to be discussed in other context. But what I am pretty sure is no "training" will be done over that 1000 year time period you are talking about to "unmaturing believers"

Well, reward and punishments are 2 different issue.

Anyway, thanks. But I am not interested in reading fairy tales.
Am I mocking God's promises? No. Rather I have uplifted it to the uttermost. I am just sharing that the deification of man [but not in the Godhead =- theosis(wiki it)] as the pinnacle of God's salvation as the goal. It is 100000000x better than going to heaven. I cannot even substantiate anything from the Bible on this matter of "going to heaven". Even the unbelievers are laughing at the "unrighteousness" of it.

Do you have anything to substantiate on your claims on going to heaven? Please do not bring up traditions.

biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 23 2014, 12:38 PM
SUSsylar111
post Jun 23 2014, 12:41 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 23 2014, 12:35 PM)
sweat.gif Whether I am of conventional Christianity or true christianity, or of a denomination or not etc, you can always make that statement. But please do substantiate your claims please in the spirit of fellowship. Just because my views on "going to heaven" are not of "mainstream" Christianity, it invalidates me as a believers? Did I not believe in the Triune God? Christ? The Spirit?

"I think if God is willing to forgive us, there will be no more sins in his eyes." Err.. duh! biggrin.gif
Am I mocking God's promises? No. Rather I have uplifted it to the uttermost. I am just sharing that the deification of man [but not in the Godhead =- theosis(wiki it)] as the pinnacle of God's salvation as the goal. It is 100000000x better than going to heaven. I cannot even substantiate anything from the Bible on this matter of "going to heaven". Even the unbelievers are laughing at the "unrighteousness" of it.

Do you have anything to substantiate on your claims on going to heaven? Please do not bring up traditions.

biggrin.gif
*
What I have stated is from the bible which is the real authority. Not your fairy tales.

In fact, I hope I am not the only one who called you out. If the other "brothers and sisters" do not call you out, I think I am out of this thread.

Well, even demons also believe in Jesus Christ. So your point being?

Well, actually yes. Because the bible actually mentioned very specifically that a person who adds or subtracts from the scripture, let them be cursed.

If you feel that you want following the bible is too burdensome or if you want to change your views to cater to the outside world, you can always create another religion.

Sorry friend. I am not using traditions here. I am using the word of God. What are you using?

This post has been edited by sylar111: Jun 23 2014, 12:44 PM
pehkay
post Jun 23 2014, 12:43 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 23 2014, 12:41 PM)
What I have stated is from the bible which is the real authority. Not your fairy tales.

Well, actually yes. Because the bible actually mentioned very specifically that a person who adds or subtracts from the scripture, let them be cursed.

If you feel that you want following the bible is too burdensome, you can always create another religion.
*
Wow ... just wow rolleyes.gif


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post Jun 23 2014, 12:45 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 23 2014, 12:43 PM)
Wow ... just wow   rolleyes.gif
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Yeah to you too. You want me to show you that verse that states that? Or you do not really follow the bible?

This post has been edited by sylar111: Jun 23 2014, 12:46 PM
pehkay
post Jun 23 2014, 12:50 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 23 2014, 12:45 PM)
Yeah to you too. You want me to show you that verse that states that? Or you do not really follow the bible?
*
Yeah, in your understanding in the spirit of fellowship. I think we can leave the mudslinging statement like " Or you do not really follow the bible?"
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post Jun 23 2014, 03:22 PM

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ALL SPIRITUAL MATTERS RELATED TO A CHRISTIAN DEPENDING ON CHRIST

Ephesians 4:13 says, "Until we all arrive at the oneness of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, at a full-grown man, at the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ." Galatians 4:19b says, "Until Christ is formed in you." God shows us clearly in His Word that all spiritual matters related to a Christian depend on Christ. Whether it is our believing in the Lord, our baptism, or our breaking bread in remembrance of the Lord, everything in our Christian life depends on Christ. All spiritual matters depend on whether or not we have Christ. Any experience in which we do not experience Christ cannot be counted as a spiritual experience in God’s eyes.

GOD'S EYES BEING ON CHRIST

God does not require that His children have a change in behavior or a desire to do good. If God’s children change themselves from being indifferent to being zealous, from not reading the Bible to reading the Bible, from not praying to praying, from not attending meetings to attending meetings, God's heart still will not be satisfied. If we had the right understanding, we would know that our seeking God and our slothfulness in not seeking God are actually the same. From the spiritual perspective, reading the Bible and not reading the Bible are the same. This does not mean that it is not necessary for us to be zealous, to pursue the Lord, to pray, to read the Bible, or to meet. This is not what we mean. We should regularly read the Bible, pray, and meet. However, merely reading the Bible, praying, and meeting does not mean that we are spiritual, for these things cannot satisfy God. What counts and what can satisfy God’s heart is that Christ is in our reading of the Bible, in our praying, and in our attending meetings. Only Christ can satisfy God.

Hence, God’s heart is not satisfied if now we are reading the Bible when formerly we did not. God’s desire is not fulfilled if now we pray when formerly we did not. God’s purpose is not accomplished if now we attend meetings when formerly we did not. This is not the way God’s purpose is fulfilled. God’s purpose is not in our attending meetings, in our being zealous, in our reading the Bible, or in our praying. God’s purpose is in Christ. If we are zealous merely for the sake of being zealous, if we meet merely for the sake of meeting, if we read the Bible merely for the sake of reading the Bible, and if we pray merely for the sake of praying, then in God’s eyes all these things are nothing but religious activities, which can never satisfy Him.

All spiritual matters depend on Christ, not on spiritual activities. The reason why all these activities have some value is that they help us to touch Christ. The reason why reading the Bible and praying have some value is that they help us to touch Christ. The reason why seeking God zealously has some value is that it helps us to touch Christ. However, if we merely have a kind of seeking, zeal, Bible reading, prayer, or meeting—all without touching Christ—these things are merely activities and are merely a religion. What is a religion? When we have a certain kind of action and a certain kind of living in which we seek and worship God without touching Christ, that is called a religion. It is neither spiritual nor pleasing to God because in it we do not touch Christ Himself.
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post Jun 23 2014, 04:17 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 23 2014, 11:33 AM)
Actually suicide can happen almost instantly.

Very simple example is an Economic crisis. You see people commit suicide almost immediately. You cannot really argue from this stance that they were depressed before that. It's the confusion that happens when they lose almost all their wealth and goes into bankruptcy.

I believe that under this kind of confusion, it is possible that a Christian can actually commit suicide because they are at such a confused as well as panic state, they really have no time to seek for God's guidance.

On the other hand, I think it is almost impossible for a Christian to actually commit suicide under the context you are talking about because they have a lot of time to contemplate on what to do next and if they are real believers, God will definitely be able to give them direction. It is actually during those time that faith becomes stronger for real christian because they realize that they cannot depend on themselves but they have to surrender totally to God.
*
I don't believe suicide happens just like that. Nobody responses like that.

It's not easy to end one's life even though at a very critical stage.

From my observation, there's usually a history prior to this, before arriving at that stage.

Same thing with why people divorce, why people go berserk.

It's usually accumulative day to day experiences of negative connotation that reached an explosion point.

And For sure, spiritually speaking it's either the work or influences of the devil



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post Jun 23 2014, 04:30 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 23 2014, 04:17 PM)
I don't believe suicide happens just like that. Nobody responses like that.

It's not easy to end one's life even though at a very critical stage.

From my observation, there's usually a history prior to this, before arriving at that stage.

Same thing with why people divorce, why people go berserk.

It's usually accumulative day to day experiences of negative connotation that reached an explosion point.

And For sure, spiritually speaking it's either the work or influences of the devil
*
Why not.

I have even given an obvious example to this.

Are you sure that for most of the people who commited suicide because of financial crisis, they do so because they are in a state of depression.
Or you are just rejecting my example for the sake of argument.

If your case is true, then why is there so many suicide cases whenever there is a financial crisis. How sure that prior to each of the suicide during this period, there is a history that cause each person to commit suicide.

Of course it is never easy to take one's life. But during a financial crisis, the people who are badly hit are at a very critical stage because they have just lost everything in just a moment's time.

Also, any 'history' can be overcomed if a person is in Christ.

Honest Question: Have you ever faced any highly pressured situation whereby you have to provide results even though the odds are against you? If you have not, you will never be able to understand what is it like to be under a real boiler situation.

Ultimately, the blame for any sins lies in the person who commits it.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Jun 23 2014, 04:31 PM
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post Jun 23 2014, 04:45 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 23 2014, 04:30 PM)
Why not.

I have even given an obvious example to this.

Are you sure that for most of the people who commited suicide because of financial crisis, they do so because they are in a state of depression.
Or you are just rejecting my example for the sake of argument.

If your case is true, then why is there so many suicide cases whenever there is a financial crisis. How sure that prior to each of the suicide during this period, there is a history that cause each person to commit suicide.

Of course it is never easy to take one's life. But during a financial crisis, the people who are badly hit are at a very critical stage because they have just lost everything in just a moment's time.

Also, any 'history' can be overcomed if a person is in Christ.

Honest Question: Have you ever faced any highly pressured situation whereby you have to provide results even though the odds are against you? If you have not, you will never be able to understand what is it like to be under a real boiler situation.

Ultimately, the blame for any sins lies in the person who commits it.
*
Let me give you an example, prior to that state of depression, the guy may have accepted the condemnation that he's not doing good enough or is good enough for anything.
Even when He does good enough, there could be voice telling him, it's never enough, he got to do better. Just an example.

or

It could be that the said person is already in a financial delima, very critical one, takes an unrealistic gamble to invest the last portion he has and found He lost the gamble


What I mean is, people don't decide to suicide in the next few seconds. There's usually a precedent before it happens.






SUSsylar111
post Jun 23 2014, 04:57 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 23 2014, 04:45 PM)
Let me give you an example, prior to that state of depression, the guy may have accepted the condemnation that he's not doing good enough or is good enough for anything.
Even when He does good enough, there could be voice telling him, it's never enough, he got to do better. Just an example.

or

It could be that the said person is already in a financial delima, very critical one, takes an unrealistic gamble to invest the last portion he has and found He lost the gamble
What I mean is, people don't decide to suicide in the next few seconds. There's usually a precedent before it happens.
*
I know about the first example. I think most of us know about the first example.

And no. During a financial crisis, many of the people who are affected lost everything in a blink of an eye. It's not a gradual thing. Properties or stocks could go down by more then 50+% at 1 time even for safer companies. People go bankrupt overnight NOT because of poor financial decisions but because they did not get rid of their stocks in time. You do not understand how a financial crisis works do you?

As I said why not. Have you ever been in a high pressured boiler situation. Do you even realize the complications of what a person has to go through when he faces bankruptcy. A person can lose his sanity after just one incident. He can become depressed forever after just one incident. You are not aware of that? Just one incident can decapitate a person for life. Even if he did not commit suicide, he may not be able to function normally after that.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Jun 23 2014, 04:58 PM
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post Jun 23 2014, 04:58 PM

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I wonder about suicide in military/strategy aspects. We all know of warriors who choose to take their life instead of being forced to betray their king.
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post Jun 23 2014, 05:01 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 23 2014, 04:57 PM)
I know about the first example. I think most of us know about the first example.

And no. During a financial crisis, many of the people who are affected lost everything in a blink of an eye. It's not a gradual thing. Properties or stocks could go down by more then 50+% at 1 time even for safer companies. People go bankrupt overnight NOT because of poor financial decisions but because they did not get rid of their stocks in time. You do not understand how a financial crisis works do you?

As I said why not. Have you ever been in a high pressured boiler situation. Do you even realize the complications of what a person has to go through when he faces bankruptcy. A person can lose his sanity after just one incident. He can become depressed forever after just one incident. You are not aware of that? Just one incident can decapitate a person for life. Even if he did not commit suicide, he may not be able to function normally after that.
*
It's how the person arrive to insanity, that's the precedent I'm talking about.

No I'm not talking about physical or material precedents (as in assets or financial stocks, etc) but soul aspect of the person.
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post Jun 23 2014, 05:09 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 23 2014, 05:01 PM)
It's how the person arrive to insanity, that's the precedent I'm talking about.

No I'm not talking about physical or material precedents (as in assets or financial stocks, etc) but soul aspect of the person.
*
Well, as I said, a person does not have to be suicidal or even have symptoms of insanity. He may be weak that's all. If that person did not face financial ruin or something, he would not be driven to insanity or suicide. My point is that there does not need to be any prior precedent building up which you are claiming in order for a person to commit suicide or be driven to insanity. A Single drastic incident can do that. Ok, I made my point.
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post Jun 23 2014, 05:28 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 23 2014, 05:09 PM)
Well, as I said, a person does not have to be suicidal or even have symptoms of insanity. He may be weak that's all. If that person did not face financial ruin or something, he would not be driven to insanity or suicide. My point is that there does not need to be any prior precedent building up which you are claiming in order for a person to commit suicide or be driven to insanity. A Single drastic incident can do that. Ok, I made my point.
*
Ahh, okay, maybe this point.

How is it, that the person becomes weak, how he arrive at being weak?

Is it through years of self condemnation, for example? Maybe, maybe not, depending on circumstances, his upbringing, many variables.

But How a person reacts today depends on what is being fed to his mind prior to today.

That is my point of what is the precedent.

Well, yes, a Single drastic incident can change people in an instance, for example road rage. But I always question, what is the person's philosophy in life that lead to the rage.

Could it be that He view himself untouchable with a high sense of pride? That kind of upbringing could lead to what happened. This is another example of precedent.

And you did asked me whether I've encountered any critical boiling point in my life, the answer is yes. I know I've snapped before and it's because of anger. That's the thing I'm trying to explain.
How we live our lives (what we feed on in thoughts, emotions, etc) determines our next course of action even if it's a snap moment.





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post Jun 23 2014, 05:45 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 23 2014, 05:28 PM)
Ahh, okay, maybe this point.

How is it, that the person becomes weak, how he arrive at being weak?

Is it through years of self condemnation, for example? Maybe, maybe not, depending on circumstances, his upbringing, many variables.

But How a person reacts today depends on what is being fed to his mind prior to today.

That is my point of what is the precedent.

Well, yes, a Single drastic incident can change people in an instance, for example road rage. But I always question, what is the person's philosophy in life that lead to the rage.

Could it be that He view himself untouchable with a high sense of pride? That kind of upbringing could lead to what happened.  This is another example of precedent.

And you did asked me whether I've encountered any critical boiling point in my life, the answer is yes. I know I've snapped before and it's because of anger. That's the thing I'm trying to explain.
How we live our lives (what we feed on in thoughts, emotions, etc) determines our next course of action even if it's a snap moment.
*
Well, a person can be weak just because he never experience failure in his life. So, this very experience would cause him to be weak. But then you really cannot argue that there was any procedents leading to him just snapping.

People have a different threshold for pressure. Some people can take it, some people cannot. Just the same as some people feel more pain then others.

Look at Moses. He is a man of God. Look at what he did under pressure. He whack his rod twice even though God told him not to. When someone is under pressure, he can do funny things. And I am pretty sure Moses is not a good example of a person who has bad thoughts and emotions. He just could not control himself during the spur of the moment that's all.

Now I would argue that if a person knows God, he would perheps be able to handle such critical shocks better, but then as shown in my example of Moses, even he succumbed to pressure.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Jun 23 2014, 05:50 PM
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post Jun 23 2014, 09:08 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 23 2014, 05:45 PM)
Well, a person can be weak just because he never experience failure in his life. So, this very experience would cause him to be weak. But then you really cannot argue that there was any procedents leading to him just snapping.

People have a different threshold for pressure. Some people can take it, some people cannot. Just the same as some people feel more pain then others.

Look at Moses. He is a man of God. Look at what he did under pressure. He whack his rod twice even though God told him not to. When someone is under pressure, he can do funny things. And I am pretty sure Moses is not a good example of a person who has bad thoughts and emotions. He just could not control  himself during the spur of the moment that's all.

Now I would argue that if a person knows God, he would perheps be able to handle such critical shocks better, but then as shown in my example of Moses, even he succumbed to pressure.
*
This is getting a bit off topic, from suicide to snap anger. We can always call this off to agree to disagree.

I think what causes suicide has more to do with giving up on hope and what causes anger is a snap of stress aggravation.

Moses had many weakness like most of us, among them, lack of confidence, insecure, can't speak well, fearful, etc.

But that's not the point. Getting to know God under the Old Testament Law requires a tall order. It requires perfection and No one is able to fulfil it perfectly because it hinges on own's strength, thus in the word of Apostle, we do the evil we want not and do not the good we want.

The Failures of Moses, along with others like Abraham, even Judas has theological reasons, too wide a topic to discuss at one go.










14-9-2015
post Jun 23 2014, 11:26 PM

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QUOTE
If a believer is not matured in the divine life in this age, he will have to go through dispensation punishment in the millennial kingdom where the overcoming believers will enjoy the rewards as co-kings. The defeated believers will be "trained"/"discipled" so that they are will be matured after 1000 years.


QUOTE
But what I am pretty sure is no "training" will be done over that 1000 year time period you are talking about to "unmaturing believers"


Hi pehkay,

But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. - Matt 8:12


Is this verse what you meant?

while i'm aware of a 1000 year millennial kingdom & believe that those saved before that, will rule as kings & priests alongside Christ during this period, i'm astounded by the fact that there will be further needed training rclxub.gif

I believe that in this life, some Christians sin less & some sin more.
I believe that Christ will reward us at the Bema Seat Judgement accordingly( Wood , Hay , Stuble verse ).
I believe all saved Christians are overcomers.
I do not believe that we will be rewarded & placed in some sort of ranking system. Granted, some will be given bigger responsibilities but the rewards will be more in the form of spiritual rewards for scripture says ,

However, as it is written: "What no eye has seen, what no ear has heard, and what no human mind has conceived" -- the things God has prepared for those who love him 1 Cor 2 : 9

Bema Seat Judgement is a rewards ceremony. Different from the Great White Throne Judgement. If my interpretation of the chronology of events is correct, the Bema Seat Judgement takes place before the millenial kingdom commences. We would also have been given an incorruptible body which is no longer able to succumb to sin. So why would we still have need for further training? I believe that we as Christians are refined & matured at our own pace, depending on how God wishes to mould us. Once we are translated, the process of sanctification would have run its course would it not?

Besides, we still have an eternity to learn more about God after the Old Earth & Old Heaven passes away cool.gif

p.s. Sylar pls dun so fierce ahhh like how u r in the other sections tongue.gif
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post Jun 24 2014, 09:22 AM

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QUOTE(14-9-2015 @ Jun 23 2014, 11:26 PM)

snip to make it shorter tongue.gif

*
Wah, you all really only come out during near midnight ah? Oh good, you are familiar with some of the verses. And you are correct in that it is not a matter of eternal salvation. We can start with your second verse (1 Cor 3:12).

QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 24 2014, 8:24 AM)
13 The work of each will become manifest; for the day will declare it, because it is revealed by fire, and the fire itself will prove each one's work, of what sort it is.
14 If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward;
15 If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Although those believers whose Christian works are not approved by the Lord at His coming back will be saved, they will be saved so as through fire. Through fire surely indicates punishment.

"If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward" (1 Cor. 3:14). If he doesn't built with the Triune God (gold/silver/precious stones), then no reward? What will this meant then if all receive reward? sweat.gif

QUOTE
I believe all saved Christians are overcomers.
If this is true, we will problems [lots of] with including the verses you mentioned:

1) But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. - Matt 8:12

2) In Revelation, the word was spoken to the church, not to unbelievers, that there will be overcomers, a remnant (Rev 2-3).

3) Matt 18:23 "settle accounts with his slaves". Slaves definitely are not unbelievers. Verse 34, "And his master became angry and delivered him to the torturers until he would repay all that was owed." How can we explain this? This is the Lord's dealing with His believers at His coming back. If we do not forgive the brother who sins against us, we will be disciplined by the Lord until we forgive him from the heart, i.e., until we repay all that is owed. Then the Lord will forgive us. This is forgiveness in the kingdom. This implies that if we do not forgive a brother from our heart today, we will not be allowed to enter into the kingdom in the coming age.

4) 2 Cor 5:10 "For we must all be manifested before the judgement seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done through the body according to what he has practiced, whether good or bad."

5) Also, Paul's metaphor of running the race to gain the prize. It won't make sense if he thinks that he has the reward already. Before writing Timothy, he did mentioned that he hasn't got the reward, always forgetting behind and looking forward. How can we reconciled this?

5a) There are five aspects of the crowns. The crown, a symbol of glory, is given as a prize, in addition to the Lord's salvation, to the triumphant runner of the race (1 Cor. 9:25). In contrast to salvation, which is of grace and by faith (Eph. 2:5, 8-9), this prize is not of grace nor by faith, but is of righteousness through works (Matt. 16:27; Rev. 22:12; 2 Cor. 5:10). The believers will be recompensed with such a reward, not according to the Lord's grace but according to His righteousness.

The New Testament speaks of the believers being rewarded with five different kinds of crowns in the future.

In 2 Tim. 4:8 we have the crown of righteousness (2 Tim. 4:8). "The crown of life" (Rev. 2:10). "The unfading crown of glory” (1 Pet. 5:4). "They may receive a corruptible crown, but we, an incorruptible" (1 Cor. 9:25). "Joy or crown" (1 Thes. 2:19; Phil. 4:1).

And lot more verses from Hebrews, Matthew that is frequently used by our dear Arminianism brothers will be problematic if we adhere to this interpretation.

For 1 Corinthians 2:9, the context is we are enjoying this reality now in our Christian life to those who love Him. We don't have to wait till then tongue.gif. Though I can't imagine applying to the future that since the context is present.

The Bible is silent on what kind of disciplines as I don't think there is a ranking [fallen concept tongue.gif - no such things]. But, based on the parable of the ten virgins (maturity in the divine life (oil in the vessel)) and slaves [faithfulness in service]. If we are not perfected in this short age, this 1000 years, the Lord will make sure all defeated believers matured in His life and to be faithful in service. This is just one aspect. We just don't analyse it too much when there is not much. But we can be sure, there will be a judgement on the believers.

QUOTE(14-9-2015 @ Jun 23 2014, 11:26 PM)
Bema Seat Judgement is a rewards ceremony. Different from the Great White Throne Judgement. If my interpretation of  the chronology of events is correct, the Bema Seat Judgement takes place before the millenial kingdom commences. We would also have been given an incorruptible body which is no longer able to succumb to sin.
You are right that it is different from the great white throne judgement.

Shortly before the beginning of the great tribulation (which coincides with the second half of the last week in Daniel), the rapture of the overcoming believers to the heavens, including the rapture of the dead overcomers—the man-child (Rev. 12:1-11)—and the rapture of the living overcomers— the firstfruits (14:1-5), will take place. The remainder of the believers (the majority) will be raptured at the very end of the great tribulation. The rapture of the overcoming believers, especially of the man-child, will precipitate war in heaven, and the devil will be cast down to earth to form an evil trinity with Antichrist and the false prophet. After all the believers have been raptured, they will appear before the judgment seat of Christ to be judged not concerning eternal salvation (a matter which is settled once for all and which is eternally secure from the time we believe and are regenerated) but concerning reward or punishment during the age of the kingdom. Those who are approved by the Lord Jesus and receive a reward will enter into the Lord's joy and reign with Him in the millennial kingdom; those who are disapproved will not simply lose the reward but will also experience some kind of dispensational punishment in "the outer darkness" (Matt. 8:12; 22:13; 25:30).

The problem is not with sin but with the maturity of life. We can have a resurrected body but within like Paul mentioned, we are still not renewed, sanctified, transformed, conformed or glorified in our soul. We are still infants. The divine life that we have never experienced in our daily salvation (Phil.) will not magically appear tongue.gif This is why, the foolish virgins do not have EXTRA oil (The Spirit) in their vessel (soul). They have only oil in their lamp (spirit - Proverbs) = they are genuinely saved. The Lord is not marrying a child Bride wub.gif

P.S. Unless you genuinely really want to know, the matter of the kingdom reward solves both problems inherent in Calvinism and Arminianism. Do bring it up if you like to know more so that I won't waste anyone's time if you are not interested.

This matter of the judgment of the believers and of their being hurt by the fire is neither Calvinism nor Arminianism. According to Calvinism, once we are saved, we are saved forever, and there can be no further problem. In a sense, Calvinism is correct, for once we are saved, we are saved for eternity. However, we should not say that there can be no problems. There is the possibility of being burned in the fire. According to Arminianism, some may be saved in the morning and lose their salvation that night. Their salvation goes up and down like an elevator. Neither Calvinism nor Arminianism is according to the pure word of the Bible. The Bible reveals that we are saved for eternity, but that after we are saved, we need to overcome every sinful thing. If not, we shall be disciplined, punished. If you do not repent and confess your sin, but stay in adultery, in the next age you will be put into the fire and burned, not for eternal perdition, but as a dispensational punishment.

This is righteous! Otherwise, I can go and enjoy the world knowing that I have already obtained the reward. It really doesn't make sense tongue.gif ... and I can't convince anyone of that or myself wink.gif

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 24 2014, 09:43 AM
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This post has been edited by giovanna: Jun 24 2014, 01:53 PM
SUSsylar111
post Jun 24 2014, 11:20 AM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 24 2014, 09:22 AM)
Wah, you all really only come out during near midnight ah? Oh good, you are familiar with some of the verses. And you are correct in that it is not a matter of eternal salvation. We can start with your second verse (1 Cor 3:12).
Although those believers whose Christian works are not approved by the Lord at His coming back will be saved, they will be saved so as through fire. Through fire surely indicates punishment.

"If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward" (1 Cor. 3:14). If he doesn't built with the Triune God (gold/silver/precious stones), then no reward? What will this meant then if all receive reward?  sweat.gif
If this is true, we will problems [lots of] with including the verses you mentioned:

1) But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. - Matt 8:12

2) In Revelation, the word was spoken to the church, not to unbelievers, that there will be overcomers, a remnant (Rev 2-3).

3) Matt 18:23 "settle accounts with his slaves". Slaves definitely are not unbelievers. Verse 34, "And his master became angry and delivered him to the torturers until he would repay all that was owed." How can we explain this? This is the Lord's dealing with His believers at His coming back. If we do not forgive the brother who sins against us, we will be disciplined by the Lord until we forgive him from the heart, i.e., until we repay all that is owed. Then the Lord will forgive us. This is forgiveness in the kingdom. This implies that if we do not forgive a brother from our heart today, we will not be allowed to enter into the kingdom in the coming age.

4) 2 Cor 5:10 "For we must all be manifested before the judgement seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done through the body according to what he has practiced, whether good or bad."

5) Also, Paul's metaphor of running the race to gain the prize. It won't make sense if he thinks that he has the reward already. Before writing Timothy, he did mentioned that he hasn't got the reward, always forgetting behind and looking forward. How can we reconciled this?

5a) There are five aspects of the crowns. The crown, a symbol of glory, is given as a prize, in addition to the Lord's salvation, to the triumphant runner of the race (1 Cor. 9:25). In contrast to salvation, which is of grace and by faith (Eph. 2:5, 8-9), this prize is not of grace nor by faith, but is of righteousness through works (Matt. 16:27; Rev. 22:12; 2 Cor. 5:10). The believers will be recompensed with such a reward, not according to the Lord's grace but according to His righteousness.

The New Testament speaks of the believers being rewarded with five different kinds of crowns in the future.

In 2 Tim. 4:8 we have the crown of righteousness (2 Tim. 4:8). "The crown of life" (Rev. 2:10). "The unfading crown of glory” (1 Pet. 5:4). "They may receive a corruptible crown, but we, an incorruptible" (1 Cor. 9:25). "Joy or crown" (1 Thes. 2:19; Phil. 4:1).

And lot more verses from Hebrews, Matthew that is frequently used by our dear Arminianism brothers will be problematic if we adhere to this interpretation.

For 1 Corinthians 2:9, the context is we are enjoying this reality now in our Christian life to those who love Him. We don't have to wait till then tongue.gif. Though I can't imagine applying to the future that since the context is present.

The Bible is silent on what kind of disciplines as I don't think there is a ranking [fallen concept tongue.gif - no such things]. But, based on the parable of the ten virgins (maturity in the divine life (oil in the vessel)) and slaves [faithfulness in service]. If we are not perfected in this short age, this 1000 years, the Lord will make sure all defeated believers matured in His life and to be faithful in service. This is just one aspect. We just don't analyse it too much when there is not much. But we can be sure, there will be a judgement on the believers.
You are right that it is different from the great white throne judgement.

Shortly before the beginning of the great tribulation (which coincides with the second half of the last week in Daniel), the rapture of the overcoming believers to the heavens, including the rapture of the dead overcomers—the man-child (Rev. 12:1-11)—and the rapture of the living overcomers— the firstfruits (14:1-5), will take place. The remainder of the believers (the majority) will be raptured at the very end of the great tribulation. The rapture of the overcoming believers, especially of the man-child, will precipitate war in heaven, and the devil will be cast down to earth to form an evil trinity with Antichrist and the false prophet. After all the believers have been raptured, they will appear before the judgment seat of Christ to be judged not concerning eternal salvation (a matter which is settled once for all and which is eternally secure from the time we believe and are regenerated) but concerning reward or punishment during the age of the kingdom. Those who are approved by the Lord Jesus and receive a reward will enter into the Lord's joy and reign  with Him in the millennial kingdom; those who are disapproved will not simply lose the reward but will also experience some kind of dispensational punishment in "the outer darkness" (Matt. 8:12; 22:13; 25:30).

The problem is not with sin but with the maturity of life. We can have a resurrected body but within like Paul mentioned, we are still not renewed, sanctified, transformed, conformed or glorified in our soul. We are still infants. The divine life that we have never experienced in our daily salvation (Phil.) will not magically appear tongue.gif This is why, the foolish virgins do not have EXTRA oil (The Spirit) in their vessel (soul). They have only oil in their lamp (spirit - Proverbs) = they are genuinely saved. The Lord is not marrying a child Bride  wub.gif

P.S. Unless you genuinely really want to know, the matter of the kingdom reward solves both problems inherent in Calvinism and Arminianism. Do bring it up if you like to know more so that I won't waste anyone's time if you are not interested.

This matter of the judgment of the believers and of their being hurt by the fire is neither Calvinism nor Arminianism. According to Calvinism, once we are saved, we are saved forever, and there can be no further problem. In a sense, Calvinism is correct, for once we are saved, we are saved for eternity. However, we should not say that there can be no problems. There is the possibility of being burned in the fire. According to Arminianism, some may be saved in the morning and lose their salvation that night. Their salvation goes up and down like an elevator. Neither Calvinism nor Arminianism is according to the pure word of the Bible. The Bible reveals that we are saved for eternity, but that after we are saved, we need to overcome every sinful thing. If not, we shall be disciplined, punished. If you do not repent and confess your sin, but stay in adultery, in the next age you will be put into the fire and burned, not for eternal perdition, but as a dispensational punishment.

This is righteous! Otherwise, I can go and enjoy the world knowing that I have already obtained the reward. It really doesn't make sense tongue.gif ... and I can't convince anyone of that or myself  wink.gif
*
I will just make comment on your last statement la.

A true Christian does not sin because he realize that there is no profit in doing that and also out of love for God and also because he desire the truth. He will not continue in his sinning ways just because he is forgiven.

As for the rest. I really do not want to waste my time.

Ok just 1. The virgins who did not enter were not saved because the bridegroom told them that he did not know them. If they were saved, the bridegroom will not make that remark. You seriously have a writing fairy tales do you.

Calvanism or Arminianism only explains 1 aspect of the Gospel. It does not explain everything. Of course they are not pure word of the bible because they are just human interpretations.
And you do not even understand calvanism. Even though calvanism preaches OSAS. But every calvanist knows that just because a person appears to be a Christian, it does not mean that he is saved and also a true Christian examines himself.

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post Jun 24 2014, 12:01 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 23 2014, 09:08 PM)
This is getting a bit off topic, from suicide to snap anger. We can always call this off to agree to disagree.

I think what causes suicide has more to do with giving up on hope and what causes anger is a snap of stress aggravation.

Moses had many weakness like most of us, among them, lack of confidence, insecure, can't speak well, fearful, etc.

But that's not the point. Getting to know God under the Old Testament Law requires a tall order. It requires perfection and No one is able to fulfil it perfectly because it hinges on own's strength, thus in the word of Apostle, we do the evil we want not and do not the good we want.

The Failures of Moses, along with others like Abraham, even Judas has theological reasons, too wide a topic to discuss at one go.
*
Actually, following God under the Old Testament is based on faith and not really on one's own strength.

Hebrews 11.

As for Romans 7, it does not states that following the law is a tall order, but the reason it's the sinful nature that prevents the apostle from following it.
pehkay
post Jun 24 2014, 12:26 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 24 2014, 11:20 AM)
I will just make comment on your last statement la.

A true Christian does not sin because he realize that there is no profit in doing that and also out of love for God and also because he desire the truth. He will not continue in his sinning ways just because he is forgiven.

As for the rest. I really do not want to waste my time.

Ok just 1. The virgins who did not enter were not saved because the bridegroom told them that he did not know them. If they were saved, the bridegroom will not make that remark. You seriously have a writing fairy tales do you.

Calvanism or Arminianism only explains 1 aspect of the Gospel. It does not explain everything. Of course they are not pure word of the bible because they are just human interpretations.
And you do not even understand calvanism. Even though calvanism preaches OSAS. But every calvanist knows that just because a person appears to be a Christian, it does not mean that he is saved and also a true Christian examines himself.
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<shake head>

Let me give you the benefit of doubt and only address the minimalistic fact to your statement "If they were saved, the bridegroom will not make that remark".

Matt 7

21 Not every one who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens.

22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, was it not in Your name that we prophesied, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name did many works of power?

23 And then I will declare to them: I never knew you. Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.

This should make thing consistent with the parable.

Unless this is fairy tale too. Then, it is quite scary with today's Christian to just do away with verses that did not fit your theology.


BTW, still awaiting your proof of verses, though ...

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 24 2014, 12:27 PM
SUSsylar111
post Jun 24 2014, 12:31 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 24 2014, 12:26 PM)
<shake head>

Let me give you the benefit of doubt and only address the minimalistic fact to your statement "If they were saved, the bridegroom will not make that remark".

Matt 7

21 Not every one who says to Me, Lord, Lord, will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but he who does the will of My Father who is in the heavens.

22 Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, was it not in Your name that we prophesied, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name did many works of power?

23 And then I will declare to them: I never knew you. Depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.

This should make thing consistent with the parable.

Unless this is fairy tale too. Then, it is quite scary with today's Christian to just do away with verses that did not fit your theology.
BTW, still awaiting your proof of verses, though ...
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The fact that he never knew them, means they are not saved.

And your point being?

So what are you trying to prove by bring up this set of verses. Most Christian knows that in this context, the people who called Lord,Lord are not actually saved.

Amazing.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Jun 24 2014, 12:34 PM
pehkay
post Jun 24 2014, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 24 2014, 12:31 PM)
The fact that he never knew them, means they are not saved.

And your point being?
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The target audience are believers laugh.gif Why would we be workers of the Lord if we aren't?

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jun 24 2014, 12:37 PM
SUSsylar111
post Jun 24 2014, 12:37 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 24 2014, 12:34 PM)
The target audience are believers  laugh.gif Why were we be workers of the Lord if we aren't?
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"workers of lawlessness". Are you sure they are workers of the lord.

Ok forget it. Nvm. You win.
pehkay
post Jun 24 2014, 12:48 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 24 2014, 12:37 PM)
"workers of lawlessness". Are you sure they are workers of the lord.

Ok forget it. Nvm. You win.
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I win for what?

At least, be open to consider a bit lar. It doesn't hurt to and will make you "cut straight" the Lord's word better or know the text better.
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post Jun 24 2014, 01:03 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 24 2014, 12:48 PM)
I win for what?

At least, be open to consider a bit lar. It doesn't hurt to and will make you "cut straight" the Lord's word better or know the text better.
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If you are serious, you would have given a better explaination of why that verse means what you are saying instead of making remarks like this.

I rest my case. You can continue with whatever you do.
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post Jun 24 2014, 01:35 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 24 2014, 12:01 PM)
Actually, following God under the Old Testament is based on faith and not really on one's own strength.

Hebrews 11.

As for Romans 7, it does not states that following the law is a tall order, but the reason it's the sinful nature that prevents the apostle from following it.
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You may want to read Galatians chapter 3. sweat.gif

The law is not based on Faith. (Galatians 3:12) Those who live by them, will have to live by them all the way to the end.
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post Jun 24 2014, 01:44 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 24 2014, 01:35 PM)
You may want to read Galatians chapter 3.  sweat.gif 

The law is not based on Faith. (Galatians 3:12) Those who live by them, will have to live by them all the way to the end.
*
Your earlier point was "Getting to know God under the Old Testament Law requires a tall order. It requires perfection and No one is able to fulfil it perfectly because it hinges on own's strength, thus in the word of Apostle, we do the evil we want not and do not the good we want."

And I just shown you a passage that proves otherwise.

Now I know the law is not based on faith. But this is not the point of discussion right?
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post Jun 24 2014, 02:03 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 24 2014, 01:44 PM)
Your earlier point was "Getting to know God under the Old Testament Law requires a tall order. It requires perfection and No one is able to fulfil it perfectly because it hinges on own's strength, thus in the word of Apostle, we do the evil we want not and do not the good we want."

And I just shown you a passage that proves otherwise.

Now I know the law is not based on faith. But this is not the point of discussion right?
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In a way, it's related.

It's a tall order, in the context of Galatians 3:12, those who wants to live by them, have to make sure they can all the way.

Knowing God through that way, is really impossible if not frustrating.

Hebrews 11 demonstrated a more excellent way of living the new life which is the way of Faith, meant to be revealed and lived under the New Covenant.

All the Patriarchs of God, Man and Woman mentioned in the Hall of Faith were commended for the Faith but they were unable to receive the promise of the New Covenant. (Hebrews 11:39) because all of them were locked (bound) to the Laws of God. (Galatians 3:23-25) until the coming of our Lord Christ Jesus.

God does not want us to know him through the law but through his Son (Grace and Truth) (John 1:17)
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post Jun 24 2014, 02:41 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 24 2014, 02:03 PM)
In a way, it's related.

It's a tall order, in the context of Galatians 3:12, those who wants to live by them, have to make sure they can all the way.

Knowing God through that way, is really impossible if not frustrating.

Hebrews 11 demonstrated a more excellent way of living the new life which is the way of Faith, meant to be revealed and lived under the New Covenant.

All the Patriarchs of God, Man and Woman mentioned in the Hall of Faith were commended for the Faith but they were unable to receive the promise of the New Covenant. (Hebrews 11:39) because all of them were locked (bound) to the Laws of God. (Galatians 3:23-25) until the coming of our Lord Christ Jesus.

God does not want us to know him through the law but through his Son (Grace and Truth) (John 1:17)
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ok you are right in this.
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post Jun 24 2014, 03:02 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 24 2014, 02:41 PM)
ok you are right in this.
*
And in Romans 7, the context is not about our sins stopping us from obeying the law but

The Law was given to let us know we cannot come to God through it.

The More we try , the more we will fail.

It was designed to bring us to the end of ourselves.

That is why in verse 10, it says:

I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.

It's a guaranteed way to fail us, so that we look away from the self effort (Law) and look to Christ for (Salvation) through Grace and Faith, that way no one may boast and the Son of God is glorified instead of us.

I have to warn you though, I want to say something that many may not agree.

In today's context, many Church are emphasizing repentance and obedience to God's commandment rather than looking towards God's grace.
That is hindering the believers spiritual growth.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 24 2014, 03:07 PM
subimpact
post Jun 24 2014, 03:12 PM

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eh do you guys ever wonder if jesus reclined while eating or sat eating biggrin.gif

kinda curious on that
pehkay
post Jun 24 2014, 03:14 PM

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QUOTE(subimpact @ Jun 24 2014, 03:12 PM)
eh do you guys ever wonder if jesus reclined while eating or sat eating biggrin.gif

kinda curious on that
*
Haha ... kinda of a tradition that time

I think when the verse like this:

Matthew 26:20 "When evening came, Jesus was reclining at table ..."

I guess we can assume he reclined. tongue.gif
subimpact
post Jun 24 2014, 03:20 PM

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QUOTE(pehkay @ Jun 24 2014, 03:14 PM)
Haha ... kinda of a tradition that time

I think when the verse like this:

Matthew 26:20 "When evening came, Jesus was reclining at table ..."

I guess we can assume he reclined. tongue.gif
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i know but some newer bible translation convert it to sat/sit

haha

i alwiz wonder how to recline and makan tongue.gif i only can do it at korean bbq restaurant where u need to sit inside some raised flooring hahaha then i tried reclining while makan
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post Jun 24 2014, 03:36 PM

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QUOTE(subimpact @ Jun 24 2014, 03:20 PM)
i know but some newer bible translation convert it to sat/sit

haha

i alwiz wonder how to recline and makan tongue.gif i only can do it at korean bbq restaurant where u need to sit inside some raised flooring hahaha then i tried reclining while makan
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Even today I think some still do.

Can experience it in Jerusalem Tourism.
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post Jun 24 2014, 03:40 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 24 2014, 03:02 PM)
And in Romans 7, the context is not about our sins stopping us from obeying the law but

The Law was given to let us know we cannot come to God through it.

The More we try , the more we will fail.

It was designed to bring us to the end of ourselves.

That is why in verse  10, it says:

I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death.

It's a guaranteed way to fail us, so that we look away from the self effort (Law) and look to Christ for (Salvation) through Grace and Faith, that way no one may boast and the Son of God is glorified instead of us.

I have to warn you though, I want to say something that many may not agree. 

In today's context, many Church are emphasizing repentance and obedience to God's commandment rather than looking towards God's grace.
That is hindering the believers spiritual growth.
*
Actually I beg to differ. For Romans 7, it clearly states that Our flesh(sinful self)
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Obviously stating that it is the sinful self that prevents one from following the law.

And continues with Romans 8 where by it's stated Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.


Actually grace is too overemphasized in today's context. In the past, homosexuality would normally warrant a death sentence. Right now, some churches are even willing to embrace it. A Christian who is in the spirit should be able to willingly follow the law because the law is good if you look at Romans 7 again and Christians should love what is good
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post Jun 24 2014, 03:46 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 24 2014, 03:40 PM)
Actually I beg to differ. For Romans 7, it clearly states that Our flesh(sinful self)
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

Obviously stating that it is the sinful self that prevents one from following the law.

And continues with Romans 8 where by it's stated Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
Actually grace is too overemphasized in today's context. In the past, homosexuality would normally warrant a death sentence. Right now, some churches are even willing to embrace it. A Christian who is in the spirit should be able to willingly follow the law because the law is good if you look at Romans 7 again and Christians should love what is good
*
sin afforded by the law. (Romans 7:8)


That is the context.

Without the Law, Sin is dead.

Read Romans 5:13.
subimpact
post Jun 24 2014, 04:04 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 24 2014, 03:36 PM)
Even today I think some still do.

Can experience it in Jerusalem Tourism.
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my church one cancelled not enuff people going sad.gif

oh well next year ..!
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post Jun 24 2014, 04:09 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 24 2014, 03:46 PM)
sin afforded by the law. (Romans 7:8)
That is the context.

Without the Law, Sin is dead.

Read Romans 5:13.
*
Well, obviously if there is no law, sin is dead because without the law, the sinful self cannot be displayed.

8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.

Look at the full context.
It is because of sinful desires that cause man to break the law.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[a] 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Actually if you read this in context, law is supposed to be good but then it condemns as well due to man's sinful nature.

So basically if you are reading in this context, what it says is that you should not try to overcome sin by your own effort(flesh) but through the holy spirit.

3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

If you are coveting, you are still sinning. If you remain in the flesh, you cannot get rid of the temptation to covet but if you are in spirit, you should be able to overcome.

Your assumption is that law is something that is bad is a wrong assumption to begin with. Correct me if i am wrong. Because you associate law with self effort. Law is not self effort. It is the rules that God has set and because man hates God(sin), he does not follow the rules.

Even the passage says explictly that the law is holy and the commandments are holy. So how can you associate something holy with something that is unholy(self effort)

I know where you are coming from. But then if a person continues sinning, it is very likely that the Grace of God isn't in him. I mean let's look it from a logical perspective. What is the difference between a Christians who continues with his sin and a non Christian.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Jun 24 2014, 04:24 PM
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post Jun 24 2014, 04:57 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 24 2014, 04:09 PM)
Well, obviously if there is no law, sin is dead because without the law, the sinful self cannot be displayed.

8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.

Look at the full context.
It is because of sinful desires that cause man to break the law.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[a] 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Actually if you read this in context, law is supposed to be good but then it condemns as well due to man's sinful nature.

So basically if you are reading in this context, what it says is that you should not try to overcome sin by your own effort(flesh) but through the holy spirit.

3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

If you are coveting, you are still sinning. If you remain in the flesh, you cannot get rid of the temptation to covet but if you are in spirit, you should be able to overcome.

Your assumption is that law is something that is bad is a wrong assumption to begin with. Correct me if i am wrong. Because you associate law with self effort. Law is not self effort. It is the rules that God has set and because man hates God(sin), he does not follow the rules.

Even the passage says explictly that the law is holy and the commandments are holy. So how can you associate something holy with something that is unholy(self effort)

I know where you are coming from. But then if a person continues sinning, it is very likely that the Grace of God isn't in him. I mean let's look it from a logical perspective. What is the difference between a Christians who continues with his sin and a non Christian.
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Not something bad, The Law of God is needed but it is something that will stop you from getting closer to God because every time you sin, the Law causes a distance between you and God.

If the Law is what God wanted to institute for Man, Christ need not come. Point No 1.

If you say that the Law has nothing to do with Self Effort, then why Christ came to set us free from the Law?

Try and understand from that perspective. (Galatians 4:5)







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post Jun 24 2014, 06:31 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 24 2014, 04:57 PM)
Not something bad, The Law of God is needed but it is something that will stop you from getting closer to God because every time you sin, the Law causes a distance between you and God.

If the Law is what God wanted to institute for Man, Christ need not come. Point No 1.

If you say that the Law has nothing to do with Self Effort, then why Christ came to set us free from the Law?

Try and understand from that perspective. (Galatians 4:5)
*
We are obviously under grace and not law but then because we are under grace, we are better equipped now to overcome sin and this is demonstrated by an observation of the law. The difference between a non christian and a christian is that a christian is no longer slave to the flesh and has the holy spirit in him.

Romans provided a reason as to why Man go against law. It is because of their sinful nature(flesh). Now if we are under grace and no longer under the flesh, we should be better equipped to handle sin which is indicated by our works(law) refer to James.

The main focus is obviously on grace but how is grace demonstrated? Obviously a person under grace would be less prone to sinning and thus would be more able to follow the law.

Actually even Christ Himself said that he did not come to abolish the Law but to Fulfil it.

If you sin even under grace, the distance between you and God will increase anyway.

Of course as Christian, we have a better revelation of what the law entails. Jesus even sum up the law as love your neighbour and love God.

Jesus also said that if you love Him you will follow his commandments.

I just do not understand why the need to undermine law because law is based on the truth and as Christians, we should love the truth.






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post Jun 24 2014, 08:02 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 24 2014, 06:31 PM)
We are obviously under grace and not law but then because we are under grace, we are better equipped now to overcome sin and this is demonstrated by an observation of the law. The difference between a non christian and a christian is that a christian is no longer slave to the flesh and has the holy spirit in him.

Romans provided a reason as to why Man go against law. It is because of their sinful nature(flesh). Now if we are under grace and no longer under the flesh, we should be better equipped to handle sin which is indicated by our works(law) refer to James.

The main focus is obviously on grace but how is grace demonstrated? Obviously a person under grace would be less prone to sinning and thus would be more able to follow the law.

Actually even Christ Himself said that he did not come to abolish the Law but to Fulfil it.

If you sin even under grace, the distance between you and God will increase anyway.

Of course as Christian, we have a better revelation of what the law entails. Jesus even sum up the law as love your neighbour and love God.

Jesus also said that if you love Him you will follow his commandments.

I just do not understand why the need to undermine law because law is based on the truth and as Christians, we should love the truth.
*
We are better equipped to overcome Sin? biggrin.gif If we are able to do that, Pointless for Christ to die. Since when we can make ourselves righteous?

The only one who is able to fulfil the law and overcame sin is Christ Jesus. Him and Him Alone. We have no part.

When we put our Faith in Him, God impart righteousness to us. This is the New Covenant. Righteousness through Faith.

If after conversion, When Christ cleansed us of all unrighteousness and we still need to carry on our Salvation which depend very much on our actions, that means Christ Jesus sacrifice at the cross is not eternal neither it is finished. And the word Once and for all is not true. (Hebrews 10:10, Romans 6:10)

This is the common misunderstanding in Christian circle.

They say they're under Grace and yet needs to work on obedience to the Law, contradicting Romans 11:6.

If you want to love the Truth, look to Christ instead of the Law, He is the way, the TRUTH and the Life.

And What is the essence of Christ? He is Grace. And Truth is on the same side with Grace, not the Law. (John 1:17)

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 24 2014, 08:09 PM
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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 24 2014, 08:02 PM)
We are better equipped to overcome Sin?  biggrin.gif  If we are able to do that, Pointless for Christ to die. Since when we can make ourselves righteous?

The only one who is able to fulfil the law and overcame sin is Christ Jesus. Him and Him Alone. We have no part.

When we put our Faith in Him, God impart righteousness to us. This is the New Covenant. Righteousness through Faith.

If after conversion, When Christ cleansed us of all unrighteousness and we still need to carry on our Salvation which depend very much on our actions, that means Christ Jesus sacrifice at the cross is not eternal neither it is finished. And the word Once and for all is not true. (Hebrews 10:10, Romans 6:10)

This is the common misunderstanding in Christian circle.

They say they're under Grace and yet needs to work on obedience to the Law, contradicting Romans 11:6.

If you want to love the Truth, look to Christ instead of the Law, He is the way, the TRUTH and the Life.

And What is the essence of Christ? He is Grace. And Truth is on the same side with Grace, not the Law. (John 1:17)
*
Well, I never ever indicated that we have to carry our salvation.

I never ever say that there is a need to observe the law in order to get saved.

Well, I think the common misunderstanding right now is that you can remain in sin and NOT WORRY about your salvation just because you say the sinner's prayer.

I guess a person does not need to repent in order to be saved.

I guess Jesus words whereby if you love him, obey his commandments means nothing to you.

That is why we are in perilous times.

Anyway
Galatians 5:19-23
Now bthe works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, cdivisions, 21 envy,4 drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that dthose who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But ethe fruit of the Spirit is flove, joy, peace, patience, gkindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 hgentleness, iself-control; jagainst such things there is no law.

You can interpret the above verses anyhow you wish.

Romans 6 talks about the importance of not being in sin and OVERCOMING IT in Christ.

I guess you will overlook this as usual

This post has been edited by sylar111: Jun 24 2014, 08:46 PM
TSunknown warrior
post Jun 24 2014, 09:14 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 24 2014, 08:41 PM)
Well, I never ever indicated that we have to carry our salvation.

I never ever say that there is a need to observe the law in order to get saved.

Well, I think the common misunderstanding right now is that you can remain in sin and NOT WORRY about your salvation just because you say the sinner's prayer.

I guess a person does not need to repent in order to be saved.

I guess Jesus words whereby if you love him, obey his commandments means nothing to you.

That is why we are in perilous times.

Anyway
Galatians 5:19-23
Now bthe works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, cdivisions, 21 envy,4 drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that dthose who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But ethe fruit of the Spirit is flove, joy, peace, patience, gkindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 hgentleness, iself-control; jagainst such things there is no law.

You can interpret the above verses anyhow you wish.

Romans 6 talks about the importance of not being in sin and OVERCOMING IT in Christ.

I guess you will overlook this as usual
*
If I have to worry about my Salvation, that means Jesus is not the one who saved me, I saved myself. biggrin.gif

Sin is Sin. It's wrong. But We must understand How we are saved from God's perspective, not our own understanding.

The problem, is we tend to look at ourselves rather than look to Christ as the Author and Finisher of our Faith, we are familiar with this verse but seldom
accept it as it is. We tend to look at ourselves as the author and finisher of our Faith.

Look I don't want really want to continue this, if you're not willing to hear me out.

Repentance and Living the New Life doesn't come through the Law of the OT. It comes through change of mind by the Spirit. Not our obedience.



SUSsylar111
post Jun 24 2014, 09:55 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 24 2014, 09:14 PM)
If I have to worry about my Salvation, that means Jesus is not the one who saved me, I saved myself.  biggrin.gif

Sin is Sin. It's wrong. But We must understand How we are saved from God's perspective, not our own understanding.

The problem, is we tend to look at ourselves rather than look to Christ as the Author and Finisher of our Faith, we are familiar with this verse but seldom 
accept it as it is. We tend to look at ourselves as the author and finisher of our Faith.

Look I don't want really want to continue this, if you're not willing to hear me out.

Repentance and Living the New Life doesn't come through the Law of the OT. It comes through change of mind by the Spirit. Not our obedience.
*
First of all, I never ever hinted that our salvation is a work based one. So stop it please. I do not want to repeat myself again.

I really do not know why you are even talking about the law of the OT. There is nowhere whereby I ever hinted that strict adherence to the law of the OT is necessary. In fact, many times, I have already hinted that we have a better revelation of the commandments and I think all of us should be mature enough to understand what I mean when I am talking about the commandments of Christ.

I have always hinted that the reason why we follow the commandment of Christ is because we are in Christ and so we would naturally follow his commandments. I do not see how you can come to the idea that I was hinting that we are using our own strength when I was actually claiming that this is a natural process.

Based on what you have said so far, I think you would have no problem accepting that an unrepentant homosexual is actually saved just because he claims alliance to Christ.

The definition of repentance is basically an admittance that you were once in a sinful state and that you do not want to remain in this state.


TSunknown warrior
post Jun 24 2014, 10:08 PM

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QUOTE(sylar111 @ Jun 24 2014, 09:55 PM)
First of all, I never ever hinted that our salvation is a work based one. So stop it please. I do not want to repeat myself again.

I really do not know why you are even talking about the law of the OT. There is nowhere whereby I ever hinted that strict adherence to the law of the OT is necessary. In fact, many times, I have already hinted that we have a better revelation of the commandments and I think all of us should be mature enough to understand what I mean when I am talking about the commandments of Christ.

I have always hinted that the reason why we follow the commandment of Christ is because we are in Christ and so we would naturally follow his commandments. I do not see how you can come to the idea that I was hinting that we are using our own strength when I was actually claiming that this is a natural process.

Based on what you have said so far, I think you would have no problem accepting that an unrepentant homosexual is actually saved just because he claims alliance to Christ.

The definition of repentance is basically an admittance that you were once in a sinful state and that you do not want to remain in this state.
*
Just 1 question. And it's related to that unrepentant Homosexual.

Are you Righteous because you obey or

Are you Righteous because you believe?


edit: continue tomorrow..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Jun 24 2014, 10:13 PM
SUSsylar111
post Jun 25 2014, 02:47 PM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jun 24 2014, 10:08 PM)
Just 1 question. And it's related to that unrepentant Homosexual.

Are you Righteous because you obey or

Are you Righteous because you believe?
edit: continue tomorrow..zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
*
So it is possible to be an unrepentant Homosexual and a believer at the same time.

Ok.
SUSleonhart88
post Jun 25 2014, 11:11 PM

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what will do in heaven later? I heard many Christians are afraid to die because they think in heaven just praise and sing boring not like enjoyful the world. is it true?
Sophiera
post Jun 25 2014, 11:45 PM

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QUOTE(leonhart88 @ Jun 25 2014, 11:11 PM)
what will do in heaven later? I heard many Christians are afraid to die because they think in heaven just praise and sing boring not like enjoyful the world. is it true?
*
Cannot be imagined on Earth, sure won't be bored though.

I am sure real life minecraft will be included in it.

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