Lot of Christian are still on a spiritual journey, different Christian different spiritual maturity.

Many times we meet those who are still stuck at the foundation basic, haven't move on to the next level living a life that's Christ Like.

Because like everyone else they carry some sort of emotional baggage unwilling to let go due to past hurts in life. It takes time for some people to be healed of their wounds.

One thing that I do when I go to Church is to seek the Lord.

I don't go to Church looking at people, or even Pastors because I already know nobody is perfect.

In fact doing that may bring disappointments. When we have the right motive in going to Church, we will not be easily shaken by what we see.

if u can read psalms.. very good book to motivate ya spirit

I know one businessman, he is super rich guy, his house is bigger than the church got infinity swimming pool on the 2nd floor like marina bay sands.

One day afriend, invited me, because of this businessman decided to hold a Xmas dinner at his house.

there were 50 youths there at that time...

then one day, he go and preach to us "It is bad to have a lot of money, a lot of material wealth because it corrupts us...you must remain humble and stable income"..."do not pursue the material wealth of this world..."

i was like what the heck? The dude got like 5 BMWs, Mercs and Bentleys parked outside his humongous 6 storey house. He even has his own elevator.

i got nothing against rich people but when rich people tell us that its bad to be rich...gosh. And what is a super rich guy born with a silver spoon inherited his richness from his parents know anything about the corruptness of money?

i am not even part of that cg...not even a christian. why i bother?

if everything you do is in god, then why bother to go to church? worship your god from your home is more better right? because if you go to church and the people don't bother to change, you are wasting your time isn't it?

yeah i wanna know, what is the point of you guys going to church? you got your tools, you say you can pray..you say you got your grace..you got your bible book. what the church got you don't have? just a building isn't it?

Many things brother. 

But I think the greatest value are these 2 verse, some of my favorites.

Isaiah 66:2 - Has not my hand made all these things, and so they came into being?" declares the LORD. "These are the ones I look on with favor: those who are humble and contrite in spirit, and who tremble at my word.

Mark 9:35 - Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, "Anyone who wants to be first must be the very last, and the servant of all."
Mark 10:

42 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them.
43 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant,
44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all.
45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

good for you.

dunno which church u join...but beware joining certain ministries...if you join for fun, they will whack you...some of the leaders there are political, they want your total dedication.

it is a deterrent because some ministries are racist, they restrict certain people from going in. I heard of africans being restricted.

or if you want to join certain ministries, they are political...they only let their gang in.

how can you feed in mega churches >2000 people? You go there, on sunday, jump up n down among 2000 strangers...sing song..then listen to sermon, you pray, then you go back home...

whats the point? you mind as well watch it by TV live telecast. wasting petrol. you dun even know anyone there.

i got a close friend, he been a christian for 18 years...he married a christian girl at SIB....everybody thought it was a marriage made in heaven. but ya know what? in spite the girl being christian, she was immature, demanding and materialisitc. The marriage only lasted 3 years.

so marry to christian dun guarantee anything.

now my poor friend cannot remarry also because according to christianity, it will become adultery unless on grounds that his wife have an affair with another man. But they divorced due to irreconciable differences.

i know we are just human and we make mistakes. But the thing here is, pastors are now using this "FOCUS ON GOD, NOT ON US"...credo to justify their actions and to continue with structural flaws at church.

Its just another way of saying "we are not bothered to improve ourselves, overcome any weaknesses we encounter whether its a political or organisation problem".

Just like the example of my friend who is a buil;ding committee at a big church. He grown disillusion with the leadership when they pound him with this credo.."we are not perfect, we should not fight, we should be peacemakers, we should focus on god".

then it became very clear the church was abusing funds to build a monolith building that they don't really need. Waste of funds ! Mismanagement. Luckily he left the church to another church, rather than to be a complete zombie follower.

There is another church in cheras, where they got over 50 young adults...but the leader rich businessman there, controls it with an iron fist with his 12 brainwashed followers. People go there, to serve serve and serve - no happiness and joy out of that. If some new guy came and wanted to just have a nice conversation, they just not layan him, want to play politics. The leader there say this is not a social club...of course not lah, but why make the whole place so unpleasant, and they usually will target those they don't like, be unfriendly to force that person out by attrition.

come on lah, even to serve also..cannot laugh meh? i am sure god want you all to enjoy what you doing mah...if like what unknown warrior say he joy in his suffering, why don't bring a bed of nails to go to church to worship...then sit on it, and sing song...more joy meh?

thought that your bible say the house of god is for everybody...and based on what i heard from friends who spoke about jesus helping the lame, poor, the troubled people, isn't christianity is about kindness and care for everybody?

not being wicked and mistreat others that you don't like.

when i was first invited with some people into that church, i knoew something was wrong, i had a hunch...after two meetings i never came back because first me no christian but second they are the most unfriendliest SOB and arrogant ones i ever met.

they speak of pharisees, but they act like one.

and another favourite weapon they like to use is to say that people who criticize people are ones who are "hurt" by them...but for me, i only there for two meetings...how can this be?

they just wanna say stuff like that to slander the people who bring out truths about them. They try to label people who speak up as troublemakers.

its their favourite weapon.

i am not saying and i hope not all churches are like that. But i am sure christians will continue to improve themselves, and not try to use the word to deflect their flaws. I am also not saying all christians are like that..but i have met some really nasty ones.

i met one christian in my office, he thinks he is always right because he is a chrsitian and he thinks god is backing all his actions at all times.

but when i see him make errors in his work, he tend to hide them...not admitting them, use the excuse focus on god not on me...and he thinks he is right all the time.

i heard in his church got one christian girl that like him, she join his cell group when he is the cg leader...btw this guy is 35 years old. i made a joke one day, about this girl..and he straight away bad mouthed her. He hate her so much that he wished she disappeard from the face of the earth. He got his whole cg to ignore her and mistreat her..until she gave up going to cg.

Wtf? He preach good news and profess love for people, but he treat this girl like shiit. Not only that, he think he is very high standard. I make jokes with him about this girl and that girl, he say all ugly. Then he pointed out which girl he liked, when i saw their picture...walao, i knew his standard very high.

but he should look at himself in the mirror...he is bald guy not handsome, he dont' accept other people opinion, to him ah, when he say something he want people to listen to him. When girl like him, he go and reject her badly.

this kind of guy ah, when he meets some girl he likes, very sure karma will come back to him.

yeah that is the point. When you say "we focus on ourselves to make good deeds to close ranks over those who made the mistakes and not admit their mistakes"...that should be the spirit.

that would be the efforts that the christiian want to portray to show to the non christians that they are serious in improving ties and structural defects in their church. When one leader makes serious mistakes, others will close ranks and improve on that area.

i mean i always hear the christians complain about lack of religious freedom and about other pressure groups, but seriously when they look into their own churches, the way they handle things, its no different from those pressure groups.

when somebody brings up an issue, suddenly the person in the church becomes ex communicated and labeled as a troublemaker. no different then how those pressure groups are blaming christians for their problems.

christians always complain about persecution but at the same time laud persecution as a way to improve themselves under pressure...always using the term "refined by fire". But when persecution come, they complain complain, when i go to gym, i always notice the church near my gym, the members driving mercedes, bentleys and bmws...into the car park, enjoying such rich blessings. Wow, these days the christians of today enjoy such excellent lifes (in Malaysia) while their counterparts brethren in Iraq, Nigeria, Sudan, India (Dalits) face daily persecutions. Maybe the churches in msia has become too complacent and too wealthy to notice any self problem until they got too much free time that they start to play politics in their own backyard.

as a result we meet many over defensive and lack of self esteem christians that a little bit of comment (like Brusky)...they try to squeeze out the person and label him/her as troublemaker rather than make serious changes.

i thought the christians always laud when kena slap on the right cheek, offer the left side...but nowadays, you accidentaly say something, tthe christians come back in a tank to attack back...

gosh, that is a blast from the time when christians say their jesus used to help the poor, lame and handicap.

nowadays, the christians laugh at people with problems. Yeah, i have a pastor friend...when i go eat KFC with him, he starts to make jokes about those couples at the church that he is counselling. Bloody hell, no privacy at all ! He vividly even joke about how he counsel a couple to hug and kiss each other to make peace...when they were on the verge of divorce.

of course all church give to charity and to their mission people lah. but there is risk of abuse of funds because this is not audited.

like city harvest, i am very sure they give a lot to charity but recent case, they go and channel 25 mil for singing career.

who knows? there could have been more funds channeled elsewhere, we don't really know.

just like one church i heard, the committee go and arrange a youth camp, church gave them like 10k up front, then everytime got meeting, they go eat dim sum in jaya33...every weekend...charge out as food allowance...

ya think this is practical or not?

sure thing people are volunteering but ya think they should be using hard earn church contributi0on to go out makan good food?

of course pastors are human too, so they should be paid ok ok lar.

but in singapore some churches pay like $150,000 per year.

rich members sometime also very show off. Like this small church i told you, the rich businessman in auto spare part.. at first he stay in average house in cheras then he bought one giant 6 storey high house as big as football field.....with infinity swimming pool, invited all the youth to come like dam show off....now his house even bigger than the church.

what a waste of money..his family only 4 people plus his mother in law. Now his only son went to study overseas, big house for 3 people.

enjoy? more like showing off.

some more he dare to tell the youth to be humble and not to greed for money. What does he know about that? he born with silver spoon...never know the meaning of being poor.

he got his cohorts in his ministry. you think this guy is stupid? as I said he is surrounded by his supporters.

Those youths are brought up by their parents who are members of the church. The only close friends they got are part of that youth group, they won't be stupid to cross hairs with that businessman who is their leader. Say one word against him, they be excommunicated.

its like you going to a perkasa convention alone, and telling them that DAP are better than them.

so for me, when I see a church ministry with a bunch of ego jerks, best is I butt out. I think there is a proverb in your bible right? Don't throw your pearls at swines...they just trample all over it. So if I just speak out, they just be swines not listening to me and trample over my words.

But there are those who cross hairs with the businessman, he use attrition such as boycott, social outcast, ignore and put that person out of the activities list. He can do it because he got a core group of leaders to help him. I seen one Christian guy from Acts church just come over because he is the boyfriend of one of th church member, he was left sitting down doing nothing,nobody talk to him for the whole duration of the meeting. After a few meetings, he did not turn up, the businessman's tactic worked.

you think this is a rant?

you initially disagreed that there are the third type of super ego Christians, I merely set out to you examples. You forgot the initial topic of debate is it?

eh, did you exercise your brains today? you telling me to join their church to argue with them when I not Christian. Is like you join Perkasa to tell them to become Christians.

there is nothing in common I have with them.

Why I want to be a hero to people that I have nothing to common with and people who are sub human to me? I refuse to teach them about my values on humanity because I felt these kind of sub humans don't merit my help. I will only keep my knowledge to benefit more worthy mankind.

Again you get it all wrong. I am telling you of the third type of Christian. Its negative to you because you're being defensive. Now you are using fark words...why trying to show Christian machoness? Yeah I get that a lot...got one Christian guy he always invite me to sell insurance and force his advice down my throat...then when I disagree he start showing his true colors by using bad words. Sheesh, first they put up a shield of niceness but when they get frustrated..they try to act macho by saying the four letter word but they fumble...because it sounded like they never said it for years.

its a rant to you because you're getting defensive.

i saw a lot of new chrisitans wanting to look for church come here to ask about this church or that.

and non christians hoping for a new life, this forum probably give them encouragement to join church.

my message here is to warn them that the grass is not greenier on the other side. I want to prevent already hurt people who were abused, drug addicts, former prostitutes, destitutely poor from getting further hurt. I am in better position so its my social obligation to help. And don't teach me about giving aid, i know more than that than you. I've participated in buddhist societies to help the poor in Klang Bus Station area...i also help christians before in their aid to provide to Myanmmar refugees. I've gone to org asli area to assist christians to provide tution and edu aid even though i not chrsitian.

sometimes the church or hollywood tend to portray church going people as perfect, honest, friendly and give new hope in the newcomer.

but i am trying to tell them that the people at the church are not perfect and there are politics there.

i care about the people who are about to hurt themselves thinking they will find new life in the church people...

i am not saying that people won't find new life in your god, they probably will. but if they expecting encouragement from the church leaders, not everybody is perfect. well maybe there are good guys in the church but there are bad guys too.

yes i am offensive at least i am honest.

i used to know a lot of frens at school who are suicidal and have pre marital pregnancies go to church ot seek new life...but i am trying to forewarn them that the people in some of the churches are political.

but my message also have a good side, i am telling them to go to a better church...if they see the first signs of a church of asssholes...please leave...i am very sure there are nice churches like the one in gombak called metro tab church...i met a lot of nice people from there.

Adam and Eve are not any race. The original human has all the potential genes for the variations we have today.

As they are the forefathers of Israel, they're also the fore parents of Asians, European, African ect ect