we are all Brother & Sista

As the guys mentioned, yeah, we love them in the Lord as genuine believers.

To be fair, we do critique or do not agree with the system they are in (e.g. unscriptural teachings) but the system does not EQUALS the believers

Most of time, when someone critique the system of Christianity or a teaching, it seem that the person is also "somewhat" grouped into it. This is very unfortunate

errr isn't praying exclusively to Mary and the saints considered idolatry? That is really steering off the Jesus only path.

p.S No issues with Reformed Catholics though.

This post has been edited by Sophiera: Jul 16 2014, 06:28 PM

Unfortunately yes, it is idolatry.

But when Israel worshipped the golden calf, they did not cease to be people of God. Neither when do they cease to be Israel when Jezebel, wife of Ahab, causes the children of Israel to worship idols.

They are [giving benefit of the doubt] genuine believers but in an erroneous system.

If one is willing to listen, you have gain him through fellowship. But if not, we can respond, "...even though I don't agreed with such teaching, you are still my brother in Christ. Any time, if you like to fellowship, I will always receive you."





(You know) In principle, we too can be idolatrous. Usually, we have something within us we love more than God. Could be our children, job, self, etc. May the Lord purify us.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jul 16 2014, 09:19 PM

thought once idolatry kena kicked out of the house de.

No, as Pehkay said it correctly they never ceased to be God's people.

This is the Grace of God that I believe some Christians find hard to understand or accept.

I like what He mentioned, it is scripturally correct as well.

If your parents/wife are Christians then you will meet them again. If not, their fate will most likely be judged guilty and be sent to Hell. It's a terrible thing, that's why we must pray hard for those close to us.

As for husband and wife, there will be no husbands or wives in earth sense in heaven. As Jesus said:

Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26 The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27 Finally, the woman died. 28 Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?”

Matthew 22:25-32

29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

This is something new. What I understood was getting abandoned as a consequence of it.

I guess this is a late reply, but anyway, many brother and sister has shared in regard to this question.

I just want to highlight the word "enlighten", because you asked for enlightenment.

The enlightenment is not coming by reading bible nor listen to the preacher nor reading online. The enlightenment comes by asking Jesus Christ himself, because bible clearly written in
Matthew 7:7
“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

This sounds simple, but truly: Have you ask Jesus Christ to give you enlightenment ? I didn't mean implying, but formal word-by-word in English. Many people thinks, and meditate, listen to sermonts, googling and they assumes they already ask Jesus. I believe Jesus does know your heart. The issue is, have you clearly realized that you have asked questions ? or have you clearly realized that you never asked questions ?

Allow me enlighten why you have to ask this questions, because you are unique. No ones has the same background like you. Even your closest friends or parents does not know everything deep inside you. You think you know everything about your own body and your own mind, will, soul, spirit ? sorry to disappoint you, you don't.

Then who knows you better than yourself ? The ones who knows you inside and out 100% ? only The creator. Who is the creator ? Jesus Christ.

Therefore it's imperative that you asked Jesus Christ to enlighten you, because he is your creator. Do you know that before you were born from your mother womb, you are in God's thought ? Therefore God's know you 100% inside and out.

Now Asking Jesus start with a humble heart. If you do not know what's standard Jesus has for a humble heart, again Matthew 7:7. He will enlighten you.
To ask and to receive answers are two different things. How to listen to God's voice, again Matthew 7:7. He will enlighten you.

From this point forward, i think it's better to see your response what happen after you apply Matthew 7:7.

God Bless

ummmm

Ex 32

26 So he stood at the entrance to the camp and said, "Whoever is for the LORD, come to me." And all the Levites rallied to him. 27 Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' " 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died


33 The LORD replied to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book. 34 Now go, lead the people to the place I spoke of, and my angel will go before you. However, when the time comes for me to punish, I will punish them for their sin." 35 And the LORD struck the people with a plague because of what they did with the calf Aaron had made.

??? What about it?

If I am reading it right , God does judge His people on the earth because of our idolatries. Or we can say, we are already under God's judgement when we love something more than Christ.

According to Exodus 19, God intended that the entire nation of Israel would be a priestly nation, a kingdom of priests. This means that, every one among them was a priest. But due to the worship of the golden calf, the majority of the children of Israel lost the priesthood. The priesthood was then given to a single tribe, the tribe of Levi, because the Levites were willing to kill the worshippers of the golden calf. The killing of the idol worshippers separated the Levites from their brethren and qualified them to have the priesthood of God. From that time onward only one tribe, not the entire nation, continued to be God’s priests.

These close relatives signify ourselves. Within us we have many “relatives” who are worshippers of the golden calf, and we must “kill” these relatives. Otherwise, we shall be counted among those who have lost the priesthood. The elements used by the enemy of God to corrupt Christians are the idols. Idols are corrupting factors. Nothing corrupts us more than idols. Whatever you love more than God is an idol, and that thing corrupts you. Once you have been corrupted by an idol, many sinful things will come in. If we love a certain thing more than God, that will become a factor of our corruption. This will be followed by sins. Therefore, we need to be careful not to corrupt ourselves by having idols, by having things that we love more than God.

Today there are millions of Christians. Are all of these Christians God's priests? No, most of them are worshippers of a golden calf; they are partners in the practice of impure worship. God’s intention is that every believer in Christ, every child of God, would be a priest. Revelation 1:6 and 5:10 indicate this. Christ’s redemption has the goal of making all the believers priests of God. But through the centuries impure worship, the worship of the golden calf, has disqualified a great many Christians from serving God as priests. Impure worship has caused the majority of the believers to lose their priesthood. But we thank the Lord that just as there was one tribe in the Old Testament that kept the priesthood ...

So we should be the minority today who are faithful to the Lord to kill the impure worship and thus to keep the priesthood.


So yeah, we will be judged but we are still God's people

I think you may be wrong there because Catholics do not pray exclusively to Mary and all the patron saints. They also pray to Jesus. When Catholics pray to Mary, they are not praying to her as if she is God. When they pray to her, they ask her to help pray for them. In the same way you would ask a friend to pray for you or your cause. Praying to someone is not the same as worshipping someone. Catholics do not worship Mary.

There is a lot of media portraying what you allege, and the pictures of Catholics bowing before a statue certainly does not help that image. I would probably have come to the same conclusion as you without hearing what the Catholics themselves say.

And there are no 'reformed Catholic' churches. Just the Catholic Church.

I talked to a friend in America that they really call themselves 'reformed Catholics'.

And my mother game from a catholic church. First thing they start is already Hail Mary. It's not quite right to ask a deceased normal human to 'pass the message' when God is everywhere. Even in the Judaic priesthood, they will always appoint the next living dude to handle the ceremonies.

Asking Mary to pass the message is getting close to ancestral worship. Like how the taoist pray to the moyang and ask them to bless or talk with the other gods or something.

hmm... just asking:

is this reformed catholic whose your friend attends same as this website:
http://www.reformedcatholicchurch.org/about_us.htm

or actually ur american fren refer to below ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Charismatic_Renewal

Not the name. Not sure about charismatic movement but she just said that they no longer pray to mary or the saints.

regardless, does it matter... i seriously believe a good person from any religion can go to heaven. its not exclusively christian. Matthew 35:40

Where got Matthew 35:40?

owh sorry. i mean Matthew 25:35-40.

also the story of the good samaritan. he clearly a kafir in the eye of the jews.

This post has been edited by sonido: Jul 17 2014, 11:54 PM

Erm, Jesus is not talking about heaven there. He's talking about hypocrisy the 'holy' folk. Basically all the orang ternama and so-called 'good' Israelites abandoned the man. Instead, an 'unclean' Samaritan saved him.

Well, you might be right that is in not exclusively Christian.

Because it is UTTERLY A FOREIGN concept in the Bible

On your quoted verses, try reading Matthew 25:31-34 also for the context ... the section is concerning how God will judge the nations on how they treat the persecuted Christians during the Great Tribulation. That time, there will be angel declaring to the world, the eternal gospel (different from the gospel of grace). It is more about if you fear God and worship Him, then they better treat God's people i.e. the believers well.

------------
Also try reading John 3:1-13 on the story of Nicodemus.

Nicodemus, a highly educated teacher (it's like having a Phd and a mayor (leader)) and an experienced, older man, came to the Lord Jesus and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher come from God” (3:2). The human concept is that we need a teacher and more teaching (to be better). The Lord Jesus is so wise. He did not argue with Nicodemus or rebuke him, nor did He speak too much with him. After listening to him, the Lord Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a man is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God” (3:3). This word really puzzled Nicodemus. He may have thought, “I came to be taught by You, to seek teaching. I recognize You as a rabbi, a teacher, yet I do not understand what You mean by being born anew. An old man such as I cannot go back to my mother’s womb and come out again.

While chapter three is about a highly cultured, very religious, God-seeking, God-fearing, moral person, chapter four is about an immoral woman.

Regardless whether you are a good or evil, you need to be born again, regenerated to have the life of God.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jul 18 2014, 09:00 AM