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 Proton PrevĂ© V19, Welcome our brother Suprima S

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ohde
post Oct 25 2013, 10:59 PM

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anyone interested in fuel addictive ?
preveverp
post Oct 26 2013, 12:53 AM

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Wondering why even when I press full throttle , the Preve just won't rev or hold the gear higher than 4000rpm? It's like, stuck at 4000rpm or something. Annoying. Feels like maximum power isn't being utilized.
ropaisoft
post Oct 26 2013, 07:55 AM

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QUOTE(preveverp @ Oct 26 2013, 12:53 AM)
Wondering why even when I press full throttle , the Preve just won't rev or hold the gear higher than 4000rpm? It's like, stuck at 4000rpm or something. Annoying. Feels like maximum power isn't being utilized.
*
CVT gearbox characteristic. read more on how CVT works.

switch to full manual mode if you're using CFE (slide the gear lever to the left), then you'll see it rev to 5k++.

This post has been edited by ropaisoft: Oct 26 2013, 07:58 AM
ropaisoft
post Oct 26 2013, 07:58 AM

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QUOTE(ohde @ Oct 25 2013, 10:59 PM)
anyone interested in fuel addictive ?
*
how addictive is it? or you meant additive?
matS
post Oct 26 2013, 09:22 AM

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QUOTE(ropaisoft @ Oct 26 2013, 07:55 AM)
CVT gearbox characteristic. read more on how CVT works.

switch to full manual mode if you're using CFE (slide the gear lever to the left), then you'll see it rev to 5k++.
*
yes.. and dont use paddle shifter for shifting, let the cvt change the gear for u automatically..
mo66
post Oct 26 2013, 09:49 AM

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QUOTE(matS @ Oct 26 2013, 09:22 AM)
yes.. and dont use paddle shifter for shifting, let the cvt change the gear for u automatically..
*
You mean ... if slide gear knob to left and CVT still change gear for us automatically? I thought that position for semi-auto ... we still need to change gear like manual gear.
gkl83
post Oct 26 2013, 10:00 AM

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QUOTE(mo66 @ Oct 26 2013, 09:49 AM)
You mean ... if slide gear knob to left and CVT still change gear for us automatically? I thought that position for semi-auto ... we still need to change gear like manual gear.
*

Yes... it used to protect your gearbox and engine...
what the reasons what you to maintain at 5000-6000rpm on the same speed?

the CVT allowed to rev till 5500-6000rpm before shifting considered very good enough...
unless u intentionally want to blow the engine at 8000rpm then nothing we can help...

we dont talk about the CVT issues here... NONE of modern car allowed you to rev till red line as most of ECU with rev-cut features even though you driving manual car... i guess my responds clarified your doubts...

This post has been edited by gkl83: Oct 26 2013, 10:00 AM
gkl83
post Oct 26 2013, 10:05 AM

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QUOTE(PrideNeverDie @ Oct 25 2013, 11:30 AM)
Hi, is the reverse sensor and lcd 3rd party? if yes, doesn't that mean will void warranty? Coz I asked ny SA and he said can fix but will void warranty coz of rewiring and dunno wat.

Another thing, question for all sifu. I notice because of the front down profile of preve, the reverse light not shining down properly and visibility is very bad in dark places. Even I turn on the rear fog lamp not much effect and I need to come out to check and see. Any way I can overcome this problem. Much appreciated.
*

reverse camera should not void warranty as the owner guide book mentioned that the HU are ready with reverse camera and advise with professional with such installation...

i guess only the reverse camera can improve your reverse parking skill... smile.gif
ohde
post Oct 26 2013, 10:40 AM

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QUOTE(ropaisoft @ Oct 26 2013, 07:58 AM)
how addictive is it? or you meant additive?
*
yaya additive sweat.gif
check out my signature below ya ^^


mo66
post Oct 26 2013, 11:05 AM

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QUOTE(gkl83 @ Oct 26 2013, 10:00 AM)
Yes... it used to protect your gearbox and engine...
what the reasons what you to maintain at 5000-6000rpm on the same speed?

the CVT allowed to rev till 5500-6000rpm before shifting considered very good enough...
unless u intentionally want to blow the engine at 8000rpm then nothing we can help...

we dont talk about the CVT issues here... NONE of modern car allowed you to rev till red line as most of ECU with rev-cut features even though you driving manual car... i guess my responds clarified your doubts...
*
OK ... thanks. I should try this.
preveverp
post Oct 26 2013, 11:02 PM

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So means there is nothing wrong with the CVT holding the revs at 4000rpm ? Is 4000rpm the best max power/torque output already? I still finding it hard to believe.. Cause throughout all gears it holds at around 4000rpm only. I thought different gear ratios should be different shifting point?


QUOTE(ropaisoft @ Oct 26 2013, 07:55 AM)
CVT gearbox characteristic. read more on how CVT works.

switch to full manual mode if you're using CFE (slide the gear lever to the left), then you'll see it rev to 5k++.
*
QUOTE(gkl83 @ Oct 26 2013, 10:00 AM)
Yes... it used to protect your gearbox and engine...
what the reasons what you to maintain at 5000-6000rpm on the same speed?

the CVT allowed to rev till 5500-6000rpm before shifting considered very good enough...
unless u intentionally want to blow the engine at 8000rpm then nothing we can help...

we dont talk about the CVT issues here... NONE of modern car allowed you to rev till red line as most of ECU with rev-cut features even though you driving manual car... i guess my responds clarified your doubts...
*
gkl83
post Oct 27 2013, 03:15 PM

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QUOTE(preveverp @ Oct 26 2013, 11:02 PM)
So means there is nothing wrong with the CVT holding the revs at 4000rpm ? Is 4000rpm the best max power/torque output already? I still finding it hard to believe.. Cause throughout all gears it holds at around 4000rpm only. I thought different gear ratios should be different shifting point?
*

by using S, it should able to hold at 4000rpm... but more than 5000rpm+++, it will up shift...
so no point to rev more than 5000rpm as it is not the BEST max power/torque, so why wasting the fuel for poorer performance?
dares
post Oct 27 2013, 05:39 PM

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QUOTE(preveverp @ Oct 26 2013, 11:02 PM)
So means there is nothing wrong with the CVT holding the revs at 4000rpm ? Is 4000rpm the best max power/torque output already? I still finding it hard to believe.. Cause throughout all gears it holds at around 4000rpm only. I thought different gear ratios should be different shifting point?
*
Look at the torque graph below (the blue line), max torque begins at 2k RPM and drops after 4k RPM. There is no point revving past 4K RPM unless you are gunning for top speed.

user posted image

The Preve's CVT is torque based, means it shifts according to torque demand as required by the terrain and the user's throttle input. If you need anything less than 205Nm, you can get it before 2K RPM.

This in fact showcases the benefit of the turbocharger+CVT combo, you can stay within max torque no matter your speed, something not as easily achievable using conventional stepped transmission.

This post has been edited by dares: Oct 27 2013, 05:39 PM
preveverp
post Oct 27 2013, 06:16 PM

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Ahh... So it peaks around 4-5k ? Ok k .. No i didn't mean i want to rev high or redline.. I just wondered if 4k rpm was the best shift point. Cause noticed the CVT held it around there whenever full throttle. Thanks for clarifying smile.gif
dares
post Oct 27 2013, 07:11 PM

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QUOTE(preveverp @ Oct 27 2013, 06:16 PM)
Ahh... So it peaks around 4-5k ? Ok k .. No i didn't mean i want to rev high or redline.. I just wondered if 4k rpm was the best shift point. Cause noticed the CVT held it around there whenever full throttle. Thanks for clarifying smile.gif
*
It peaks around 2k and stays relatively constant until 4k RPM (read the blue line) after which it starts to drop brows.gif

so once you reach 2k you already get maximum torque, no need rev to the moon to overtake trucks....the joy of turbo wub.gif

This post has been edited by dares: Oct 27 2013, 07:12 PM
terryble
post Oct 27 2013, 07:49 PM

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Hi there~~i went to Sg Besi Proton Edar Branch today~
It is noted that they are also able to give me the Proton Preve Premium "dealer" discount of RM6000, and also offer me the R3 Body kit (he said RM1k++) and the R3 Rim for another 1k++ (promise to be ori, but had to check price)~~

Anyone here know better SA to recommend?

I read through the threads here...some even mention they are able to get the price at sub 65K~~

Many thanks for replies in advance~~
sanadi
post Oct 27 2013, 08:30 PM

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QUOTE(dares @ Oct 27 2013, 05:39 PM)
Look at the torque graph below (the blue line), max torque begins at 2k RPM and drops after 4k RPM. There is no point revving past 4K RPM unless you are gunning for top speed.

user posted image

The Preve's CVT is torque based, means it shifts according to torque demand as required by the terrain and the user's throttle input. If you need anything less than 205Nm, you can get it before 2K RPM.

This in fact showcases the benefit of the turbocharger+CVT combo, you can stay within max torque no matter your speed, something not as easily achievable using conventional stepped transmission.
*
If you press the pedal to the floor, with the updated ECU/TCU settings, the engine will rev to 5500 - 6000 rpm. You will find that you have trouble going past 180 kph.

Relax your pedal pressure and allow the engine to rev ~4500 rpm and you will find that the car speed picks up considerably. You can get 200 kph quite easily. The trick is *relaxing* pedal pressure to go faster. Counter intuitive but it works.

In the original ECU/TCU mapping where the engine will not go past 4000 rpm easily, the trick was to use S mode to accelerate to 180 kph and change to D mode to accelerate to 200 kph. Now you just control pedal pressure.
aegis`-
post Oct 28 2013, 01:28 PM

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aiya no funs liao tongue.gif
matS
post Oct 28 2013, 07:35 PM

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QUOTE(sanadi @ Oct 27 2013, 08:30 PM)
If you press the pedal to the floor, with the updated ECU/TCU settings, the engine will rev to 5500 - 6000 rpm. You will find that you have trouble going past 180 kph.

Relax your pedal pressure and allow the engine to rev ~4500 rpm and you will find that the car speed picks up considerably. You can get 200 kph quite easily. The trick is *relaxing* pedal pressure to go faster. Counter intuitive but it works.

In the original ECU/TCU mapping where the engine will not go past 4000 rpm easily, the trick was to use S mode to accelerate to 180 kph and change to D mode to accelerate to 200 kph. Now you just control pedal pressure.
*
relex pedal... hmm will try this after change moneyflies.gif tyre...
currently car vibrate at 115kmh++

dares
post Oct 28 2013, 08:34 PM

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I enquired directly to Kristof of Punch Powertrain about the improvements on the VT3. My questions were forwarded to his colleague Fikeri Yusof. the following is the email exchange.

Although the VT3+ is currently implemented on the Suprima and Preve LE only, future Preve models will adopt it as well. Something for future Preve owners to look forward to.

QUOTE
Hi Kristof,

I understand the new Suprima S is using VT3+, an upgraded version of the VT3 used in Preve and Exora.

Can you elaborate on the improvements implemented on the new VT3+ compared to the older VT3?

Thanks!

Regards,
****

There was a couple of intermediate email exchange but due to irrelevance I will omit them here. The next relevant email is below

QUOTE
Hey ****, your answer will be in tomorrow. We dont have any secrets and the more malaysia knows what we are doing, especially improving, the better! So no issue in sharing. Have you testdriven the suprima, offcoarse i did, huge difference with preve! Car build up quality is way better, a lot of lessons learned taken into account. Allthough i have to say that the vt3+ Is also adopted in the newly produced preve and preve will take over a lot of suprima quality as well.

Regards

Kristof


QUOTE
Dear ****,

VT3+ found in Suprima S is base on VT3 found in Preve CFE and Exora CFE,the changes that we made is redesign the gear geometry of secondary gear side to reduce whining sound of it.Number of teeth also different but final ratio of each transmission is still the same.TCU calibration also different due to number of teeth and new Cal on Suprima S is more responsive compared to Preve.

But on the same time,Proton also did lots of upgrade to absorb the whining sound.Like new design trans mounting,additional brace inside front fender,thicker padding at firewall and few more which I not remember.

Hope the answer is fine for you.Thanks.

Regards,
Fikeri Yusof


So as you guys can see the improvements is not only software, but also the mechanical parts. Kudos to the team for answering my questions so thoroughly when other carmakers will probably shrug me off.

Goes to show Proton is not ready to rest on it's achievement with the CFE+CVT powertrain design.

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