mind to explain how to support?

by only reply with the necessary and neutral answer. that's the best support you can provide. not idiotic bashing to the sky.

This post has been edited by navigator: May 16 2006, 01:50 PM

oh, i thought the one and only way to support proton is buy their cars

You can do that.....if you DARE!
When CamPro is done, by the time Proton's alliance with Mitsubishi is over, other versions of CamPro will emerge like a 1.8, 1.5, 2.0, turbos and so on. So we won't have to rely much on others anymore to power our vehicles!

This post has been edited by tunertoobe: May 16 2006, 01:56 PM

Not really. You buy foreign cars which already imposed some hefty amount of taxes to the Government. And the government supported Proton do get benefits from it. But no one in public knows how much help do they received from the Government.



Did you dyno it? Or just simply said it out just like the Proton brochures shown to us. Scan your dyno page and show to all of us if you dare and prove us dead wrong. Otherwise it is just another baseless assumption.

This post has been edited by dstl1128: May 16 2006, 02:16 PM

ya rite... prove to us with the dyno chart ... a picture explains a million...

im not a basher. i can says im a proud supporter of proton but for u to says u get a flat power curve in latest gen2 engine.... is either ur engine is special made from proton or the dyno machine got something wrong.

our current campro engine doesnt come with CPS or VIM. is just a normal 4-valves DOHC engine with aggrasive camshaft. u can email proton n ask about it but if ur engine really can get flat power curve across the RPM.... u better sell back ur engine to proton with much much higher price so they can dissect it back n learn how the hell it can get flat power curve across the RPM without sumthing like CPS, VIM, VVTI, I-VTEC, Vario-Cam, Double vanos.. etc etc.

oh, i do wish to, but currently i got limited access to internet since i'm at my new home and I cannot upload the chart yet. once my internet connection is restored, I'm more than willing to post it up.

so it might be a while for me to get my streamyx....

Oh, the flat curve is after a proper tuning somewhere outside the Klang valley, and I do sure I seen something on PDT2000 which resembles the VIM setting. prove me wrong my explain all the content in PDT.

Will post the chart in near future. but not now.

Why should I trade my engine out? I can't keep it myself? Your statement doesn't make any sense to me.

sorry if the sentence sell it back to proton at much much higher price doesnt make sense to u. let me make it simple.

to develop a technology like CPS, VIM, VVTI, I-VTEC, Double Vanos n etc etc... u need millions of RM/dollars/EURO/(billions of YEN).

so basically if u really can get flat power curve across the rpm without those technology, u have a goldmine... diamond mine more correct in ur engine !

so meaning u can sell back to proton n show the flat power curve without the techs n they willing to buy for millions also coz they can skip the R&D time and no need to add manufacturing cost.

does it make common sense now ?

That good. I'm eager on that chart. I found it weird since that engine were able to tune towards near flat torque curve (an advantage), I wonder why Proton not doing that as factory default, instead of the less practicle setting (or is it they already did that on newer batches?)

Without the graph, from the time being, the flat torque curve remains a myth. And I think it shouldn't be used as fact for the moment.

Regardlessly, should Proton slap on a supercharger on Gen2, I think it might reach some sweet spot and bring in some more enthusiasts, an interesting scenario (Gen2 vs GTi) in our local motorsport.

Whatever it is, Proton still in the process of perfecting the Campro and Proton wants to instill confident for Proton's buyer as the engine is reliable as Mitsu, nissan, toyota and honda engines.
Hopefully next batch of Campro have the CPS and VIMS technology as it will enhance the capability of Campro engines. With Lotus back up, I believe they can do it.

yeah, me too... waiting for the *130bhp 1.6L campro.. and *155bhp R3 tuned campro..
*with CPS and VIM. (heard somewhere)

currently i'm using kenari already 2 years... now decide to change to a bigger car. I think wanna get gen2 or honday city.. so can anybody tell me the benefit between this 2 car especially the FC?


thanx

If you can afford a honda city, then buy a honda city. Build quality is eons ahead of proton. Its a no-brainer, really.

Stop talking bullcrap and give me a dyno chart to proof it. I am basing my argument on the dyno chart released by Proton, so if you wish to call my argument a baseless argument then it is only fair that you provide one with your own definition of a "sound argument". If you fail to do that, then I believe your own words apply to yourself more than it does to me.

And you replied:



I wonder, proper tuning to gain back your flat torque curve. Why isn't that factory tuned? How many average buyers would go for such a tuning or even have the extra cash for that? If you want to talk about tuning, I'd say the VTEC 1.6 engine could ravage its ass with that kind of tuning. Flatter and wider torque band, higher horsepower.

And mind to explain what PDT is?

FC of course Honda City IDSi win, and ultra seat, build quality, everything is far ahead of Proton. One of my friend patiently save his salary for two years riding a kapchai go and back to work. He manage to put a RM12,000 as d/payment and now he is the proud owner of City IDSi. FC for him to 'balik kg' to Kelantan quite impressive.

anyway what do you mean by flat power curve? if i am not mistaken any engine after it passed it peak power point,the curve will go down.anyway what is PDT2000.i tried google it but can't find any relavant answer.anyway these are some dyno for GEN 2 that i found on the net.



inertial load



variable load

Oh dude, if u don't even know what PDT is, you don't even have any right to comment on the Campro.

PDT stands for Proton Diagnostic Tool which is used to check all the error logged in the ECU (and yes, Gen2 logged all the error to the ECU, including the Door Ajar sensor)

Until I have a proper conenction to internet from my house, I can hardly have any access to internet. My access to internet is very restricted and it's impossible for me to upload any attachment currently.

VTEC? oh pal, B16x series engine is designed as a performance engine in mind, while campro S4PH found in GEN2 & WAJA is designed to be a Thermal efficient, cost efficient and Green engine which exceed Euro 4 emmission standard in mind. I won't mind to tell you that Campro series design can be modified to a more powerful engine without deploying any CPS technology.

The near flat torque curve i mentioned is between 2500 to 5500rpm before the torque started to drop below 80% peak. From what I understand from proton, The result is achieved by deploying VIM and electronic throttle body control which work similar way in the Civic 2006.

I'm not bashing City, but after tried most of the cars in similar price range from 50k to 100k (as those car actually same class in terms of engine capacity and type) for nearly 2 weeks, the Gen2 wins for me for superb handing and good power on wider rpm range. the City VTEC maybe better, but the i-DSi cannot even match with the Gen2 on all these. the only thing that City surpass the Gen2 for both i-DSi and VTEC is the smooth gearbox (but again, I liked manual transmission more...) and the great turning raduis. the cabin? for me Gen2 better, as mine is dual tone colored (black & beige) quality is almost the same.

Vios? Aveo? they're all not satisfactory to me. at least the test drive unit they provide is poorly built. and I have had enough with the Toyota Fiasco previously.

yeah, FC definately i-DSi win. but.....there's better one from honda..... I've heard honda brought in Civic Hybrid which the FC is almost a kapchai's standard.

if u want good FC, Gen2 is not your choice. as the FC is not impressive enough. at least for me. But City cannot provide you a joy-of-ride like Gen2