Decent is a hard to define thing.

There is decent for rich people, decent for middle range, decent for barely surviving class. In this case, it is good to set a limit for yourself first. How much are you willing to part with at maximum and start from there.

Do you have any friends who is cycling, have you tried to loan their bikes out for a spin? What sort of riding you are expecting to do? Purely flat fast rides, climbs, mixture veering towards climbing more?

It's all about expectations and compromises if you have a $ limit.

Might be.. but his wife operates the desa park city shop most of the time as far as i know..and his little sister operates at the father's shop...

Planet X are quite a famous mid sized brand in US... quite a lot of followers and produces not too bad tri equipment...

In your earlier reply you posted and I quoted


Why the big disconnect or is it just your semantics?

His second comeback is to ride the herd or mute them like you suggest.
I don't think so.
His sole motivation is the usual suspects ..Greed & Hubris.... Typical traits of a Bully who thinks He is Untouchable.

I assume you know about Roger Clemens another boy from Texas. What do they have in common?

WAT!!!.... you guys are impossible to satisfy

post too long and tell me i land you with a wall of text... too little and then there is mis-interpretation...

i was jus trying to expand on the earlier point as landis was a clear cut evidential case while rasmussen was prosecuted based on his denials...

chicken actually didn't get caught by UCI red handed... he was suspected of it because the anti doping agencies reported he missed a couple of informed visits and the inquiries and sort of vague answers from him on his real whereabouts forced his team and cycling federation to drop him and suspend his racing license...

whether armstrong came back due to the money or trying to silence his witnesses or to prove the critics wrong...it's something we'll never know... one thing for what i am sure... he did not do comeback 2.0 purely 100% for cancer survivors like he claimed...

i heard about that baseball player although i know not much bout that sport... but, to put it into the same spotlight... baseball did not have as strict nor as stringent doping regiment as cycling or many other endurance sports.. so, it's hard to compare apples to apples... if you were to dope test the weight lifters with the same guidelines as many of this endurance sports...they'd be failing miserably...

the past is the past... he did do some good for the sport, whether it is to promote and re-ignite the love for cycling in the states or giving hope to cancer survivors all over the world....and let's not deny that some of us might have enjoy watching him incinerate the field whether he doped or not...

he is just going to become some story that we will pickup or dig out once in a while to poke about... no real meaning into debating whether he is right or wrong...

This post has been edited by butthead: Oct 30 2012, 12:43 PM

Typing with iPad was bad, haha, too lazy to type everything out.

Yeah, I have got feedbacks from bicycle shops saying that what I want is very vague but I do not trust them enough to provide them with every single details since I do want to take care of my own wallet as well haha.

My main intention of going cycling is to relive my 300 bucks mountain bike cycling experience during my secondary days and moreover I have always had this soft spot towards mechanical stuffs and sports.

Plenty of intentions really but mostly it's for speed, I can make about 2 days/week for cycling, still haven't got any idea if I would like to join any cycling group but I'd most definitely want this to be a sustainable thing since I will be spending thousands of Ringgit on my first bike.

One major concern about picking biking up is my initial cost as well as the cost to maintain the interest, I have other expensive hobbies as well LOL such as cars.

MIFR.Sad.Full.Anyone who don't wanna go with the bib no pls let me know.I'm interested

bro, you better write out the full name....

Malakoff Interstate Fellowship Ride.....

300 bucks gets you nothing this days... i doubt even at the hypermarkets... maybe only kiddie bikes...

you still did haven't set a ceiling... but safe grounds to start off would be an alloy bike for around RM3.5k and upwards...without naming any specific bikes ... this is somewhat what the market is having around this time..

so... to give you a slight idea of how it should be at least for the more reputable brands...

1) Aluminum bike - 10 speed Tiagra (maybe mixed Tiagra - Sora), priced around RM3k up
- this would be the absolute lowest point i would say to start from... any lower and you will land outside of 10speed equipment and any upgrades will certainly be more than the difference you saved not buying this bike.. shimano launched tiagra with 10speed beginning of this year making this a considerable choice... also, this grade of bike will have a more common grade of cockpit (handlebar, stem, seat post, saddle) and cheaper wheels

2) Aluminum bike - 10 speed 105 (maybe mixed 105 - Tiagra), priced around RM3.8k up
- most likely the same frame above with a different paint livery, this would be an entry level into shimano's definition of competition components... tiagra would be what they called the top tier among the enthusiast group.. although both 10 speed... but materials and feel... tiagra has a shift indicator while the 105 does not hence giving you a pro feel (what the bike shop will tell you)...mostly.. tiagra has a bit more plasticky bits than 105... some slightly more expensive models might even start offering slightly better wheels like mavic aksiums along with better slightly better graded cockpit...

- i would not try and go past 105 on a aluminum bike... the best brands like specialized or bmc will be selling an aluminum bike equipped with 105 for a little over RM5k... going 1 notch up into ultegra will lead you to start looking into higher end bikes as those bikes will surely creep past RM6k and most likely a mismatch between frame and component grades... you will be practically trying to pair a set of RAYS CE28N onto a Perodua Myvi if you get what i mean in car terms...

3) Carbon bike - 10 speed 105 (possibly not full 105), priced around RM7k up
- this would be a foray into performance bicycles... although a carbon frame... but this are not the best carbon has to offer for 2 reasons... carbon cloth grade (less modulus, less weave, lower grade binding agents) and the man power / time needed (less complex layup schedules) to layup the carbon layers into producing a frame... basically a mass produced frame with the lowest production cost possible... not all that bad... it should still be on par if not better with the best of the aluminum frames in terms of stiffness.. basically, component should be similar or slightly better than the aluminum 105 bike depending on the price you pay...

- here i would name one which shocked me quite a bit recently... saw this Look 566...this http://www.lookcycle.com/en/int/route/velo...-bike-2013.html , but i guess a previous year model...... carbon frame with Mavic Aksium wheels... not a complete 105 with some downgraded cranks and calipers... a carbon frame with comfort geometry retailing for RM7.1k if my memory serves me right...

- price is slightly high for some people... but if you look at it...maybe under 30% more if you are looking at a Apex or 105 equipped Specialize Allez

4) free for all - death - bankruptcy - you name it...
- step into this and there will be no return...

Most of us heard about Kayle Leogrande. He was suspended for 2 years based on “nonanalytical” evidence, rather than failed drug tests.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/18/sports/c...?pagewanted=all

Likewise if you missed your tests (remember MU Rio Ferdinand?) just like chicken did technically & legally he failed the Doping 'non-analytical tests! No? Matter of semantics I suppose.

Thanks butthead, it pretty much clarifies what I am looking at. Time to do some research over the brands as well as the difference between Sora, Tiagra and 105.

How's Merida BTW? I hear it does give pretty good value in terms of money spent?

Oi... where's ma Doremon Giant brand?

Additional info:

If brand is not a major concern, currently Velocipede Works at Sunway offer FULL 105 groupset on aluminum bike for RM3.8++

oh yeah... if brand is not major concern, at the same shop, Velocipede Works at Sunway offer Ultegra groupset on Carbon bike for about RM7k++.

What does Roger Clemens & Lance Armstrong have in common?
Besides both from Texas & counted Bush as friend.

Roger Clemens was indicted for perjury for lying to Congress but was acquitted! FBI dropped their cases or investigation against Roger & LA (political reasons IMO).

Roger Clemens sued UNSUCCESSFULLY his former personal strength coach, who was his prime accuser and witness in the Court hearing.

Now the worm has turned for Roger Clemens.
Roger Clemens is now facing a defamation suit by Brian McNamee, his former 'soigneur' .
Roger Clemens is charged for defaming McNamee during the trials.

Roger Clemens and all the dirt will be dug up in this defamation suit (anything is fair game in a civil suit) and Roger might go to jail if he commits perjury or lying.

So far with me?


Isn't that what would happened if Lance Armstrong were to face his 11 accusers (7 of them didn't have to confess) in the USADA arbitration of Sports hearing.

Open up a can of worms?

The legal ramifications are extensive. Will LA want to take the risk of going on the stand ala Roger Clemens?

I doubt it. Like most of us claim does he have the pair?

i feel like reading a political thread...

wheres all the porn?

appreciate the info buddy! Will definitely pay them a visit this Friday

i am not on armstrong's side at this point in time...

but slight difference between his case, kayle leogrande, floyd and rasmussen or even frank schleck for that matter...

in Kayle's case and this is from your article, physical evidence of him with EPO that i think counts as more physical than just pure verbal testimonies


there was mentioned about novitzky as well... and this is where more confusion comes into place... i think only 2 reasons why novitzky could not get enough facts to pursue armstrong and ultimately led to closure on the case... political pressure from higher rank's that has links to armstrong... or he really could not find solid evidences that he would even have the confidence to bring to court to be used against armstrong or his team really did not have the methods to uncover how armstrong managed to mask his blood doping in recent years... either way... no one knows why and novitzky had no agenda against armstrong as far as i know making him the least likely to go after him due to a vendetta...

floyd, got caught red handed with skewed testosterone levels from his stage 17 attack

rasmussen, physically the officials could not find him... slightly grey.. but it did happen unless the officials are against him and lied about couldn't locate him...

frank and alberto, each with recorded abnormal blood or urine samples from the offending tests...

again, not on armstrong's side... USADA as far as i skip sailed through the 202 page Reasoned Decision document did not provide much proof on actual tests other than mentioning of the old tour de swiss and the cortisone incident and a lot of damning fess up stories by armstrong's close buddies... this is partly why some who still supports him... if there is independent studies that came up to show that his blood samples from 09 is abnormal.. this will really shut each and everyone up and he won't get the benefit of the doubt...

but, i do agree that it will be crazy to get 26 people to lie against you... so, based on that... i too would have sanctioned armstrong no matter which rule says i can't do so... if it is real that 26 people lied... then it would be the biggest cover up of the century...

this is where the case is unique and will become the most unique if not biggest doping story of many years to come...

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Added on October 30, 2012, 6:28 pmyup... i agree... he is not dumb enough to go on trial with 26 people against his words... based on that, he already had every chance he will ever get wiped off... and UCI, USADA and WADA all acknowledge that all his past tests is invalid as an argument to the defense of the case...

but if bruyneel continues to CAS as planned.. he will still be knee deep in it as he is still linked to all this on top of having to be subpeona'ed... and there is no guarantees that the feds will not re-open the case like how SCA promotions wants lance to return all the money he got from them...

armstrong too had a soigneur he managed to pummel in court... along with a bike mechanic / personal assistant, fillipo simeoni, kimmage & walsh, lemonde... i think he has more enemies than clemens...

let's jus sit back and watch and not speculate... it'll be an exciting cycling off season this year...

the only thing lance can do now is to disappear off the face of the planet...

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Added on October 30, 2012, 6:34 pmMerida is not too bad.. not the best, but also not the most expensive...

between Merida and some crazy unknown taiwanese brands... i'd take the former...

i said not to name names mar...

wah..dun taruh so big racun la... but, ultegra on carbon for only RM7k... i saw 105 also already 7k... is it neilpryde?

This post has been edited by butthead: Oct 30 2012, 06:34 PM

Politic and sports dont mix well....like religion and politics....



105/Utegra/DuraAce.....whatever happened to Campag and Sram......

I think what I am going to say next is true for everyone (yes you the average sized average framed Joe/Jane) -The problem one would face most is finding a correctly sized and geometrically agreeable frame, more so then it being carbon,aluminium and what not.

Our short argument after so many years of inheriting and semblance of intelligence is .....'What groupset does it come with ?'

Please dont buy the bicycle if its not right. Dont feed the machine.

Local shops should work on consignment basis with the regional distributor since our volume does not justify the means.

Hmmmmmmmm....have an idea....needs development.....who is the largest bicycle manufacturer in the world (profitable ?)

i am assuming that it is a first bike... getting it all right on the first bike is pretty impossible unless you have friends bike to be a reference point...

what feels right on showroom floors will feel a bit odd when you actually ride it... and then the equation of you improving down the road is another thing you have to add....

so, it's the question of, is it safer to get a larger or smaller frame size??? smaller in my thinking as you can extend things upwards and downwards on things too small... but you cannot shrink oversized stuff...

just like cooking... lesser salt is better as you can salt it after finish cooking...too much salt, and you cannot take it out later...

geometry... is another question... basically... it is whether you want aggressive competitive frames or comfortable long head tube touring geometry? but then... you most probably would not understand the difference until sometime down the road...

first bike is always gonna be a guinea pig (a bit)...

if you should be buying a 49 and the shop force a 56 on you because that is what they have... that is what you should not buy... if a 51 or maybe even a 47... depends on how you feel on the bike... if you are that desperate to get a bike... your desperation will make the decision for you...

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Added on October 30, 2012, 8:14 pmthere is... like guru bikes or parlee.. .they send you to their fit studios before they sell you a frame...

parless is a bit more flexible as they can even tune the seat and head tubes angles a slight bit... sort of half custom frame... too tedious, no one wants to do it for cheap...

Parless Z5 retails for over 3k not sure Euro or USD frame alone mind you...doesn't come cheap...

This post has been edited by butthead: Oct 30 2012, 08:15 PM

I went to this specialized store and they did a measurement, no size so I didn't get em. Pretty honest sales guy to be honest. But tight pocket that time didn't help haha.

Bought a bike case. Semi hard case actually. Rm1k. I could get a Force crank with the amount of money spent. Duh..I hope I'm making the right decision by bringing my bike oversea. I just pray that my wheels stay in perfect shape.

Btw for triathletes here who usually travel with their bike on air plane, do they separate a sports equipment from the normal luggage? Where to get Fragile stickers? At the check in counter is it? So scared lah..huhu

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Added on October 31, 2012, 8:15 amSince doping has been embedded deeply into cycling years ago until now, have you ever wonder perhaps Wiggins also dope for TDF win and Olympic? A massive cover up by the team and stuffs just like LA case?

Anything is possible you know these days. Haha.


This post has been edited by mrjgx: Oct 31 2012, 08:15 AM

I wasn't moving inline with conventional wisdom custom/semi-custom/alternate pro fitter......albeit I feel conventional wisdom is too bland for more exciting moments

So SRAM no 9 speed road....means I have to remove gear cassette and look for a Shimano equivalent (match gear spacing) or buy Sram 10 speed road and remove one gear.

Yeah they do but its blanded/branded. ....dishonest sales guy do not last long any where then again they last forever here in Malaysia

You can stick the frame minus bars/crank into a coat bag, and carry on. Save some $$$. Tim wheelset....there is an alternative....forgot what was it, sorry.

Fragile stickers....dun think the baggage handlers can read.

the fragile stickers is either available at the baggage check in counters or the wrapping counter... if wrapping counter, means you have to pay to wrap it first only they will sticker the thing for you lar...last i remember is like RM12 per item or something like that...

many many moons ago... friend went to langkawi ironman via flight... bike in carton box without any spot of bother of packing it nicely... reach there with no problem...

if the bike decides to do a motocross stunt mid air from the baggage trolley into the cargo bay of the plane... god bless is all i can say...

isn't there airline or baggage insurance you can buy separately?

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Added on October 31, 2012, 9:25 amYou can't take a cog off a cassette as it will no longer fit properly on the freewheel body after doing so... it will start sliding around due to additional spacing vacated by the cog.... i doubt even the lockring will lock the cassette in place or you can dismantle the cassette piece by piece as only the first 2 or 3 cogs are loose and held together by the lock ring...

if you are using a 9s shifter... just throw in the 10s cassette and ask your bike shop to use the limit screws to dial out 1 cog... you can choose either the 11t or the biggest cog you have... it should in theory work...but check with your bike shop...

i've seen 10s tt shifter work on 9s cassette before...the reverse of your situation...

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Added on October 31, 2012, 10:48 amSouth Park's take on the Lance Chronicles



This post has been edited by butthead: Oct 31 2012, 10:48 AM