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 New Toyota Camry 2012, is Really coming now!

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kepalapening
post Jun 27 2012, 09:43 AM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jun 27 2012, 08:42 AM)
Yes a figure of 8.xkm/L seems quite logical for a 2.4L car in 100% city driving. I dont really see how you can get better than that. The advantage of the extra gear on the 6 speed auto wont really matter since you wouldnt get into 6th gear that often in normal city driving conditions.
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But, 2.5V is powered by Dual VVT-i with ACIS. ACIS is suppose to provide better fuel efficiency [ACIS].

kcng
post Jun 27 2012, 10:27 AM

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QUOTE(kepalapening @ Jun 27 2012, 09:43 AM)
But, 2.5V is powered by Dual VVT-i with ACIS. ACIS is suppose to provide better fuel efficiency [ACIS].
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keyword = suppose
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jchong
post Jun 27 2012, 11:13 AM

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QUOTE(kepalapening @ Jun 27 2012, 09:43 AM)
But, 2.5V is powered by Dual VVT-i with ACIS. ACIS is suppose to provide better fuel efficiency [ACIS].
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I guess only user testing and experience will show if really got better fuel efficiency or not, and by how much.

Normally even if got gains, might be small like extra 5% - 10%. Earlier you said you can get about 12 km/L in city driving. That is like 40-50% improvement from what is achieved by the prev gen Camry 2.4. Such a massive improvement seems unlikely.

Anyway, best method to get the fuel efficiency number is to do actual fill. Fill your tank to full (until the pump auto clicks off), reset the odometer, then drive until empty and refill again. Then divide the km you travelled by actual fill amount.
cybermaster98
post Jun 27 2012, 11:27 AM

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QUOTE(kepalapening @ Jun 27 2012, 09:43 AM)
But, 2.5V is powered by Dual VVT-i with ACIS. ACIS is suppose to provide better fuel efficiency
Yes its supposed to provide better FC but even the best systems would mean little vs the gear systems. You need to look at the percentage of savings. Even the Optima is equiped with dual exhaust and intake valves.

Btw, i asked you earlier about your latest fuel consumption readings. So far uve only quoted the first outstation trip as reference. How about 100% city driving?

This post has been edited by cybermaster98: Jun 27 2012, 11:28 AM
jchong
post Jun 27 2012, 11:48 AM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jun 27 2012, 11:27 AM)
Btw, i asked you earlier about your latest fuel consumption readings. So far uve only quoted the first outstation trip as reference. How about 100% city driving?
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He did mention it was 12 km/L for city driving (in Kangar) and posted a shot of his car gauge. But don't know if got any further update after that.

For outstation I think it was said to be 15.8 km/L.
SUSOptiplex330
post Jun 27 2012, 12:33 PM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jun 26 2012, 03:58 PM)
For most new cars, using Fully Synthetic Oil is much recommended. Anyway this schedule refers to only SERVICING. Part replacement due to wear & tear is not shown here. So as in most cases, the first year or so, will closely follow this chart but after that the cost starts increasing. And Toyota's parts arent cheap once u add on the labor and service charges as well.
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There is a theory saying you MUST NOT use Fully Synthetic oil in brand new cars. After run in, can use.

Before run in, you need a little bit more friction to properly sit in the various moving parts. Fully Syn are too slippery to provide that.



cybermaster98
post Jun 27 2012, 12:34 PM

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QUOTE(Optiplex330 @ Jun 27 2012, 12:33 PM)
There is a theory saying you MUST NOT use Fully Synthetic oil in brand new cars. After run in, can use.

Before run in, you need a little bit more friction to properly sit in the various moving parts. Fully Syn are too slippery to provide that.
Yes yes...for the first 3 servicing, stick to mineral. I was refering to usage of Fully Syn in new cars after the first few scheduled services.
zweimmk
post Jun 27 2012, 01:07 PM

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QUOTE(kepalapening @ Jun 27 2012, 09:43 AM)
But, 2.5V is powered by Dual VVT-i with ACIS. ACIS is suppose to provide better fuel efficiency [ACIS].
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While I'm not that technically proficient, I can tell you the improvements are more evolutionary than revolutionary and on the whole probably less impressive in real life than what's printed on paper.

New 2.5L Camry hybrid engine (2AR-FXE) - 115kW @ 5600RPM / 213Nm @ 4500RPM
New 2.5L Camry engine (2AR-FE) - 133kW @ 6000RPM / 231Nm @ 4100RPM
Old 2.4L Camry engine (2AZ-FE) - 127kW @ 5600RPM / 220Nm @ 4000RPM

The power for the newer Camry actually kicks in slightly slower than previous generation but it's a small trade off for a slight increase in power and fuel economy and smaller carbon emissions. The hybrid engine actually provides fairly respectable power and torque figures for an engine that's more concerned with getting more MPG.

As for the 2.0L engine...

KIA Optima Theta 2 2.0L Engine 121kW @ 6200RPM / 198Nm @ 4600RPM
Old Camry 2.0L Engine (1AZ-FE) - 109kW @ 6000RPM / 190Nm @ 4000RPM
Corolla 2.0 Engine (3ZR-FE) - 107kW @ 6200RPM / 187Nm @ 3600RPM
KIA Forte 2.0 Engine - 115kW @ 6200RPM / 194Nm @ 4200RPM

The KIA soundly beats the Camry in terms of power but delivery and torque figures aren't too far apart and come in slightly faster for the Camry at lower RPMs. Not bad for a 12 year old tech engine. For reference sake, I've included the Corolla and Kia Forte 2.0L engine as well. No idea how the fuel economy are for these cars, but I suspect the gap in fuel efficiency for these engines will probably be smaller than imagined.

As far as NA engine is concerned, I think they've probably reached a point where improvements are marginal at best unless something revolutionary comes along. The trend is moving towards fuel efficiency and economy and it has been like this for some time. The Japanese have directed most of their efforts to the hybrid and electric solution while the Europeans focused on smaller petrol engines fitted with low pressure turbos and turbo diesels.

Perhaps this is one of reasons why Japanese offerings of late are so underwhelming when stacked next to the Koreans and Europeans. The direction is different, the good stuff are now found on their hybrid solution cars instead of the standard petrol engine cars :/
cybermaster98
post Jun 27 2012, 01:10 PM

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This is a good read and the basis of most of our critisms of the new Toyota Camry:

http://paultan.org/2012/06/27/esp-stabilit...-in-their-cars/

SUSOptiplex330
post Jun 27 2012, 01:15 PM

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QUOTE(zweimmk @ Jun 26 2012, 08:57 PM)
The 40k service is expensive if you use fully synthetic oil and do the air cond servicing at the same time. My corolla cost about 1.3k or so in its 40k service. The Camry cost about 1.7k++, I have my relatives bill from 2009 for reference and it includes air-cond servicing which was supposed to be done every 30k. That list gives you a good indicative price but the reality is you will typically spend more than what is indicated there depending on the work done and the parts replaced
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Toyota's price list is using the Mineral 10W30. So if you use FS, it will be even more expensive.

kepalapening
post Jun 27 2012, 05:38 PM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jun 27 2012, 01:10 PM)
This is a good read and the basis of most of our critisms of the new Toyota Camry:

http://paultan.org/2012/06/27/esp-stabilit...-in-their-cars/
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I wonder why we are able to switch off ESP?
Why make that switch control?
We can't turn off ABS right.
cybermaster98
post Jun 27 2012, 05:43 PM

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QUOTE(kepalapening @ Jun 27 2012, 05:38 PM)
I wonder why we are able to switch off ESP?
Why make that switch control?
We can't turn off ABS right.
There is always an off button for ESP especially for CBU cars cuz in foreign countries, when the car is stuck in snow, the ESP actually hampers movement as it misinterprets it as loss of control. So drivers normally disengage the ESP when driving through thick snow.

ESP is an active system meaning its sensors are always working while ABS only activates in hard emergency braking. Plus switching off the ABS has no benefit in any way. But dont forget that ESP and Traction Control are not the same.

This post has been edited by cybermaster98: Jun 27 2012, 05:46 PM
kepalapening
post Jun 27 2012, 05:48 PM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jun 27 2012, 05:43 PM)
There is always an off button for ESP especially for CBU cars cuz in foreign countries, when the car is stuck in snow, the ESP actually hampers movement as it misinterprets it as loss of control.
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What would happen if you really needed to rotate your car to avoid an obstacle ahead?
Just curious.
kadajawi
post Jun 27 2012, 06:03 PM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jun 27 2012, 08:42 AM)
Yes a figure of 8.xkm/L seems quite logical for a 2.4L car in 100% city driving. I dont really see how you can get better than that. The advantage of the extra gear on the 6 speed auto wont really matter since you wouldnt get into 6th gear that often in normal city driving conditions.
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Sure? Usually the 5th or 6th gear is meant for 50 km/h if it is a 5 or 6 speed. Even with a Porsche you should be able to drive in the highest gear at 50. So far I haven't experienced a car that can't do it (usually around 1200-1400 rpm?). Uphill it may be different, then you need to downshift, but otherwise...

Or maybe the Toyota torque converters are different, I didn't drive many auto cars, mostly manual.

Disengaging ESP in snow? Especially in snow it is very useful... you don't want the rear to get lose etc. (normally).

Spirited drivers may want to turn it off on a race track, because it's just more fun without (if you can actually control drifts).

@kepalapening:
Uhm... and when would that be? Also unless you are a race driver I don't think you have the skills to control a car that way. Anyway, the car will try its best to go exactly the direction you are steering it towards.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Jun 27 2012, 06:06 PM
IluvProton
post Jun 27 2012, 06:07 PM

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QUOTE(kepalapening @ Jun 27 2012, 12:48 PM)
What would happen if you really needed to rotate your car to avoid an obstacle ahead?
Just curious.
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ESC / VSC basicaly lower your tyre spinning only. it will not brake 100% therefore it might able to steer under your control. instead without ESC/VSC at high speed, when you lost control your wheel still spinning and cause unwanted accident.

Sorry, That my understanding only. If mistake, please do correct me. thanks you

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kcng
post Jun 27 2012, 06:12 PM

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QUOTE(cybermaster98 @ Jun 27 2012, 05:43 PM)
There is always an off button for ESP especially for CBU cars cuz in foreign countries, when the car is stuck in snow, the ESP actually hampers movement as it misinterprets it as loss of control. So drivers normally disengage the ESP when driving through thick snow.

ESP is an active system meaning its sensors are always working while ABS only activates in hard emergency braking. Plus switching off the ABS has no benefit in any way. But dont forget that ESP and Traction Control are not the same.
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actually u are off target there...
they are the same actually.... it is the naming convention that cause confusion...
because ESP and TC and whatsover are just naming convention...
at the backend, they works just the same...

depending on manufacturer, they are named differently or packaged differently...
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IluvProton
post Jun 27 2012, 06:17 PM

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QUOTE(kcng @ Jun 27 2012, 01:12 PM)
actually u are off target there...
they are the same actually.... it is the naming convention that cause confusion...
because ESP and TC and whatsover are just naming convention...
at the backend, they works just the same...

depending on manufacturer, they are named differently or packaged differently...
smile.gif
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TC actually include in every VSC / ESP cause 1 of the component for it.

else TC can be only in car without VSC / ESP

ESC incorporates yaw rate control into the anti-lock braking system (ABS). Yaw is a rotation around the vertical axis; i.e. spinning left or right. Anti-lock brakes enable ESC to brake individual wheels. Many ESC systems also incorporate a traction control system (TCS or ASR), which senses drive-wheel slip under acceleration and individually brakes the slipping wheel or wheels and/or reduces excess engine power until control is regained. However, ESC achieves a different purpose than ABS or Traction Control.[20]

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from wikipedia.
kcng
post Jun 27 2012, 06:20 PM

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of all the references... wikipedia
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IluvProton
post Jun 27 2012, 06:24 PM

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QUOTE(kcng @ Jun 27 2012, 01:20 PM)
of all the references... wikipedia
sweat.gif
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soli abg kacang. ayam car noob.

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anyway, I look at toyota camry website. I found this.




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Oldskolboyz
post Jun 27 2012, 06:29 PM

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ESP detail with video..

http://paultan.org/2012/06/27/esp-stabilit...-in-their-cars/



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