I wonder if the 100 storey mega tower is going to take place? No updated news on the PNB project already.

That 100 storey tower completion date can serve as a good guideline on when the next bust would be.

what if it never gets built?
this tower, mrt and all other megas will not find easy funding since they really are quite bankrupt now.
cannot cut subsidies, cannot do gst w/o political costs, deficit already big.
other than epf, there are few possible major funding sources.
let's hope they dun suck epf dry...

i'm 25..a fresh graduate graduated from UK majoring in finance just landed on a Management associate job in 1 of the MNC in Malaysia...

starting pay- RM2300 (to be revised after completion of the 2 years training program)

feel like freaking stressful when talking about this property prices..

For others may perceive that Foreign grad that got a MTP job in MNC seems to have a lot of bright prospect but i seem myself very gloomy future down the road....

I am local and my great grandfather follow Yap Ah Low to develop the KL raw land ...but now seems like i can't even have my own 5 feet place to sleep( to own a house) *those speculate jerks who didn't contribute to the economy but everyday just going to new launch development site to sign a few S&P documents ,few more months back pass back the title to freshie like us and earn the "jackpot" with appreciation gain out of nothing...

People like us work like hell from 9am to 9pm in MNC just able to fork out few hundreds to save in a month...

But people like those freaking rich auntie just buying properties like buying vegetables ,5 units in 1 new lauching project, b4 get CF, gain 50k appreciate, Sell... 50k x 5 = 250k

we freshie only managed to save RM300 per month, it will take how long to reach RM250k... but auntie just put few thousands for downpayment to developer, few months later, magic show starts, RM250k cash in ..wink ^_* ( definately she will sing the Rihanna's song .. don't stop the music.. come ..young man..keep buying.. agent asking buy now ..if not few months back increase again... developer asking.. no bubble.. buy buy buy ..so that they can sell to u more more more at HIGHER and SKY HIGH Price) i knew i ady have written in a very emotional way ady... haha..but i just can't help it...

ok..after emo from my right brain.. it's to use my left brain to analyse..

According to Property Price to income ratio, Malaysia seems quite low compared to Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, China ,Taiwan, Korea (see any similarities ??)

1. They are all Chinese origin, we Chinese custom from 5000 years back, die die must have a house to start a family)

2. They are all very developed country in economic sense...but Malaysia?? hehe..are we??

this is what I object what the agent said about Malaysia property price is much cheaper now compared to Hong kong and Singapore...
but ahem..excuse me...do we earn as much as HongKee and Singaporen or Japanese?? what are their GDP per capita???

World Ranking (by USD) GDP per Capita as at 2010 (sources from IMF)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...l%29_per_capita

15 Singapore 43,117
16 Japan 42,820
24 Hong Kong 31,591
25 Brunei 31,239 (surprise me, Brunei.wow)
33 South Korea 20,591
37 Taiwan 18,458
50 Libya 11,314 (lol..even Libya just got attack also doing better than Malaysia by far percentage..are we ashamed or not?? )

65 Malaysia 8,423
94 China 4,382 (dun forget PRC has 1.3billion ppl)

(comment a bit above)
Singapore, Hong Kong, Japan,Korea needs not to say..They ady get rid of medium income trap.. their economy can producing high value add on products and rakyat enjoy high income so that high property price still can sustainable...

moreover, Singapore and Hong Kong do have a protective security net for low income group, they can't buy private house, still have "HIGH QUALITY HDB Flats" for the citizen.. but What About Malaysia???

Our Goverment said RM3k is considered HIGH INCOME group?? but bloody hell..do u think RM3k alone can afford to buy a house??? say cheers to urself in tat particular month if u no need borrow RM300 from ur parents or cash advance from credit card if u r living in KL...

so.. I earning 3k ,Gov said i ady high income group, suppose I should not have the problem to own a property ,rite? since I am so "success".. but the fact is ???

what about those low income group below 3k??? what about the new generation future?? yeah.. 18 years education n training in Malaysia... Singapore Gov get it all talents for free.. TQ very much for ur highly productive workforce n cheap as well...

okay..come to an article on Household debt in Malaysia – Is it sustainable? — S.M.Mohamed Idris
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/breakin....mohamed-idris/

According to Bank Negara’s Annual Report 2010, Malaysia’s household debt at end of 2010 was RM 581 billion or 76 per cent of GDP (Gross Domestic Product). The Bank claimed that the household debt is still manageable because of income growth, high levels of savings and favourable employment opportunities.

Malaysian household debt service ratio
39.1 per cent in 2006
49.0 per cent in 2009
47.8 per cent in 2010.

(Meaning to say earning RM100, almost half of paying off housing, car instalment, credit card)
left RM50, then what else?? not to say
1）insurance (getting more n more expensive due to medical inflation)
2) daily meal allowance ( food price hike like hell, sugar,what else?)
3) utilities ( TNB naik lagi)
4) transportation (no more subsidy, transporter said wanna increase again)
5) ptptn fee
6) children tuition fee
7) grocery
8)internet
9)mobile
10) basic entertainment (movie..etc)
11)parents allowance
12) car maintenance
13) gf maintenance
*take note, item 12 or 13 could be very expensive too ..hehe ^^ depend on individual
14) savings (Masih ada meh???? sudah negative lor ....)

n Please pray to God or Allah or Buddha or whatever, that no1 in ur family fall sick or need emergency treatment, as 1 minor surgery could cost you nearly bankrupt....

and Answer to BNM item 2)high levels of savings
1)we young generation will have no money to save
2) Old generation save becoz they don't see any productive economy opportunity to invest, or worried for the future, only thing, goreng stock and goreng property la..is it health to an economy??

and BNM item 1) income growth and 3)employment opportunities are in certain correlation from my point of view..

as what Najib is proposing ..ETP (yes, Economic Transformation Program)...sounds glamorous and shed a light to a gloomy gen-y youngster like me..

What I only know..Mr.Prime MInister.. sebelum kita jadi HIgh Income Country, sekarang ni sudah High Burden la...apa pun naik, gaji tak naik...
have a look on the latest http://www.statistics.gov.my/portal/index....emid=89&lang=en

my lecturer said , he earns RM2300 in Standard Charted Bank also once he graduated back in 20 years ago...
but now , I also earning RM2300 after graduated from UK..

at that time, he bought a bangsar landed property just cost him around RM30k..
i just check on bangsar landed property just now, it shows Bangsar,RM13,2Million (RM380.00 psf)

Bangsar Property price increased by 440 x
Fresh Grad Salary increased by 0 x (stagnant )

once again- well done.. Bolehland!!!

let's talk about Income growth and Employment Opportunities...
definately we Malaysia ady fall into Middle income trap countries..
To producing high quality services and products like Singapore, Hong Kong, Korea and Japan （Can we or Do we able to fight??)
(Singapore and Hong Kong have a world class financial centre, logistic port, free corruption n busines friendly environment, do we have tat???)
(Japan can made high quality and cheap Toyota or Korea can made hyundai or LG)
What We Malaysian proud of ?? Making Proton cars ?? but still need protection??? and cost we Malaysian paying so high instalment for a ok ok proton for such a high price and sacrifice our quality of life...

To achieve a high income country > to able produce high value of services or product n efficient > can we product high tech or value product services > (do we have tat talents?? or able to attract the talents or could we have the efficient and skillful workforce???) > to attract those talent > what is our gov policy or our current environment??

write till here...my paid is freaking low(RM2300 for junior)..but the same equivalent job i could earn about SGD3500 in senior position (about RM7500).. about 3x what i earn in Malaysia...

so don't say we young generation not loyalty or to serve our country ...(but i dunno why i still serve my contribution in Malaysia becoz my family is here .. n I still love KL n it's my root)

btw,1 last sentence..
Looking at the problem from the ratio of household debt to disposable income, this ratio is 140.4 per cent for Malaysia, one of the highest in the world; above that of Singapore at 105.3 per cent, USA at 123.3 per cent and Thailand at 52.7 per cent in 2009. This means that the loans taken by each household in Malaysia is on average 1.4 times more than its household income.

yes.. no.1 in the world 140.4 percent for household debt to disposable income ...yes..we r more serious than sub-prime buyers in U.S and yet ppl say we Malaysia will not happen that what happened in U.S...

i just wondering if ppl stop repaying their repayment n go bust, Banks surely are the one whose get affected drastically....if bank no money channeling out money out...surely tighten of credit supply...a mere property price bubble burst could trigger the stock marke collapse hence the hit into the real economy....it just like what happened in 1997..

perhaps 1 big event i believed which might started in China will initiate a contagion effect on the Asian region and sweep away all the excess liquidity in the market and once again 1997 Asian financial Crisis will once ..the history repeat itself again.. it's a circle anyway driven by human greedy n fear...

so.. the music chair ..see when the music stops la...

n i think very soon .....

This post has been edited by sunzi69: Jun 5 2011, 05:41 PM

it'a good that such a youg man such as yourself are so up to date on so many matters.
most fresh graduate won't even talk about the economy or politics or economy at all.
from where i can see, you DO have a bright future ahead.
landing a MTP in a MNC is no small feat. you can give a pat on yourself. when you have the relevant experience, am sure your salary will triple within 3-5 years time (yes, triple, not double). one needs to work both hard and smart to achieve success in life. you are already on your way before you know it.
good luck.

@sunzi69 - it's good to let your frustration out once in a while but overdoing it will not help much either.
You can either (1) continue to complain, curse the Govt, etc. (NB: I also agree with you that M'sia can do much better) or (2) face the reality and do something about it. I do whine once in a while but life still goes on...

Let's go through your Long posting...

1) RM2,300 is quite low but remember it is a Management associate position. If you do well, after 2 years - you pay will jump (depending on your coy). If your coy is reputable MNC, your pay will go up more than 100% after 4-5 years (>5,000) is well within reach. So, don't be gloomy on life...your work life is just beginning - do look on the bright side. Yes, there are a lot of people who earns more but how about people who cannot even get a job?

2) Yes, property prices in Klang Valley is getting unaffordable for fresh graduates. But do you really need to buy a house after you graduate and with your first job? Staying with parents or renting may be a better option - for job mobility purpose.

3) As for your "aunty example". Yes, every property speculator is a Hero when the market is up and UP but when the market turns, they become what? They take the risks and bear the brunt if the market turns against them. Most people only boast how much they make but when the market declines, those who get burnt - will keep quiet.

4) Your GDP/debt analysis. Agreed. Malaysia is caught in the "middle-income" trap and the RM3,000 high-income threshold is a JOKE (even Mustapa tried to dissociate from it subsequently). The key culprit is the education system (+political & socio-factors). Personally, I am not too optimistic either. Frankly, since you are young and educated - I will advise you to keep your mind open - do explore opportunities outside Malaysia when you are more experienced (keep an exit route ready).

5) The starting pay in M'sia has relatively stagnated (pay has increased slightly but is significantly lower in real terms). As for the Bangsar landed property price at 30k twenty years ago (1991) is highly unlikely. The 30k price for a double-storey terrace in Bangsar was during 1970-72 (before 1973 oil shock) at Bangsar Park/Lucky Garden (no Bangsar Baru yet). Even during early to mid-80s, double-storey terrace in Bangsar was around 150,000. I don't have the price at 1991 - I suspect it was around 200,000+. Now, the asking price in Bangsar Baru is 1.3+ mln for a basic double-storey terrace house - up 6.5 times. If you use use annual compounding, it's around 9.8% p.a. for the last twenty years. I am not sure whether your lecturer bought LAND instead of a building (then it may be possible). I don't know where you get the amount of RM13.2 mln (at RM380 psf) - it is for a 35,000 sq feet property which is a gigantic bungalow (those at Bangsar Hills).


I can see you are analytical (+ bother to dig up facts/numbers to back your posting) and can write well. If you feel really frustrated, you can explore regional/global opportunities after a few years (I am not asking you to leave the country but keep your options open). In meantime, work hard and gain experience + network. Cheers.

This post has been edited by chabalang: Jun 5 2011, 06:13 PM

Unexpected.. TQ kochin & chabalang for ur so positive n promt feedback to open my view.. thought surely i'll got a screw from all the elders who will despise me who only know how to complaint...hehe

I have no idea how people outside self-bragging how easily they can easily make tonnes of money but for me a fresh grad like me, earning money is really not that easy..feeling the pinch of inflation ady..

I think it explains why young people (Gen-Y) are so impatient and the turnover in corporate is so high as compared to my father's generation...
MY CEO advice to our MAs- "You Young People only needs to remember 1 thing, my only advice, Be Patient! Time will come and you will have your chance"

but We hor...everyday c the property's price har..cannot be patient anymore.. that's the root of problem..

but realized that keep changing job is not wise enough unless u ady carried the skills or something valuable in ur org to jump over to another org...then only u will have the bargainable power to ask for higher salary.. hehe

I think if Gov wanna make Kuala Lumpur a world class financial centre.. please consider if these financial talent's income can afford to pay for the accommodation in this financial centre..

1)as far as i know, there are a few financial services company in Malaysia doing outsourcing job supporting Asia Pacific region (we got the deal i think is at expense of our lower labor cost la...
1 of my batch graduated in UK too- book prize winner in banking and finance)
Ended up working in C bank(MNC)Trade Finance supporting Asia business - everyday work from 10am to 10pm (pity her, coz Taiwan always revert things back at 4 or 5pm ,then only they can start work, must finish daily basis)
She is earning RM2300 (including bonus, she doesn't have any bonus and Ct Bank claims that extra RM300 is ady considered her bonus so in fact her basic salary is only RM2000)

Her sisters all landed a well-paid job in Singapore .e.g. SIA (i have strong feeelings that must be 6 out of 10 SIA stewardess are from Malaysia, I have damn lots of frens working in SIA) and becoz of she has to take care her old aged mother, she can't go to Singapore but end up working in MNC with only RM2000 basic salary and hardly could survive in the heart of Kuala Lumpur...if not,1 more grad will be working in Singapore again..hehe)

I'm lucky enough to get into a MAP programme out of few hundreds candidate and believe that I can have a bright future..but my colleagues whose are those clerical or officer in the age of 30-40..with income less than 2.5k ..I really have no idea how they can survive in Kuala Lumpur?? so interested to know so that they can teach me how to swim in the ocean...ahahaha

back to the topic above,
if i can't afford to buy a house in the heart of KL, probably i will ask for reallocation my work station to places like Seremban , Melaka or Ipoh..perhaps few hundreds bucks already can rent a big double storey house.. haha...


This post has been edited by sunzi69: Jun 5 2011, 06:58 PM

My brother also graduate from UK, he is 26 also a fresh grads earning 4k right now. but he is a lecturer

I used to work for a MNC too, Co is very big in m'sia my boss top 3 richest malaysian. Guess what my pay almost same like you today, but i work very hard to do part time real estate. I am from property background so its easier for me to start.

I made my 1st 100k at age 25 and that year also i bought my very first property in Taman Bunga Raya, Setapak. A single storey Renovated to 8rooms and from there on after 5yrs today i owe quite a number of properties already.

I've client who made 2-3mil in 1-2years. I sold some very good properties where if i can buy itself at that time, i would have be a millionaire 2years ago. But its still not too late because we are still young.

Stop complaining get yourself in action start to think how to make more money. In KL Money is everywhere go get it!! Work hard is the only key. and most important you need to learn the magic of investment

sunzi69,
pls work harder now and gain relevant skills in your current mnc. pls do look for job opp in singapore or shanghai. (best is sg coz it is nearer to kl), sg salary is about 3-4 times higher than kl (2.45 exhange, lower tax, lower dollar to dollar living cost and higher saving). if u work 10 years in sg it is like 30years in kl. so u can retire in 10yr or invest in lot of things (prop, share, gold etc). if u work 15 yrs then it is equal to 45 years in kl.
p/s; shanghai salary followed sg and plus fat allowances. hk lagi best... the most important is you have the skills the mnc wants. esp shanghai, hk many mnc prefer msian coz we can speak many languages and our english is much better than the locals. msian also has more exposure in territories sales, production, more hand on skills etc. (some sg, hk never enter into factory b4). The ang moh in usa, europe, regional HQ sure want update /what happening in china and need translation/report from we asian regional office. the above is my own experience to share with u. pls do pm me if u want to know life in sg, shanghai, hk etc. And how to build $ and invest. i gained lots of regional/global exposures during my oversea postings and i know what is good investments.

i am a frequent job hopper too. but everytime i hop, it's usually the following one or more factors:
1. i think i have mastered all the skills that i'm currently doing at hand
2. i believe there's not much future prospect of the job
3. future prospect and opprtunities available at new offer

loyalty have its pros but comparing myself and those who stay on, i must say i have no regrets hopping. but of course, i'm considered mid/senior management already so hopping less liao.

and word of advise, do not relocate. stay in the heart of the nation. that's where the big action happens and this is where you need to be to accelerate your growth. you may wish to transfer when you are in mid or high management. but definitely not now. there was once a factory senior supervisor in kl @ rm6k being offered rm15k to head a factory in kuala terengganu. a 250% jump in pay. didn't know whether the guy accepted or not.
my long term plan, to retie in ipoh when i'm 40ish.
i have no doubt that my epf savings will be 7 digits before i retire.
no cheating. just a hard and hoepfully smart worker.
cheers!

April 2011
Purchase of residential property = RM 17,272.445mil
Purchase of non-residential property = RM 9,148.653mil
Total Loans Applied = RM 63,695.306mil

This post has been edited by kh8668: Jun 5 2011, 09:36 PM

look like in the hoohaaa of property overpriced, our people still consistently applying loan and buying, except recent march application spike a little...

Property Industry Survey 2H 2010 source: www.RehdaInstitute.com

MEDIA BRIEFING – PROPERTY INDUSTRY SURVEY 2H 2010

HIGHLIGHTS

1. 55% of respondents launched in 2H 2010.

2. More respondents indicated better (39%) and equal sales (50%)

3. Majority of the buyers are local i.e. 96%. The remaining 4% constitutes foreign buyers from Singapore, Europe, China and Korea.

4. 33% of respondents revealed that majority of their buyers are first time owners.

5. Generally respondents launched an average of 100 units per project during 2H 2010.

6. 58% indicated they have increased price by average of 11%.

7. Smaller number of respondents reported having unsold units, as majority indicated having less than 20% unsold units

8. 35% of the respondents who have unsold units, indicated price range of RM250,000 and below.

9. Most respondents (74%) do not face problem in building materials. But out of those who faced problems the following are the challenges:

♦ Steel - Pricing

♦ Brick - Pricing

♦ Cement - Pricing

♦ Sand - Pricing

♦ Labour - Shortage of supply

♦ Brick - Shortage of supply

10. There is an increased number of respondents (72% to 82%) who do not face problem in accessing credit from financial institution.

11. 71% of respondents will be launching new properties from January – June 2011.

12. Most respondents’ (67%) launches are projects 150 units and below.

13. Price is expected to increase by average 13%.

14. More respondents think that property between RM250,000 – RM500,000 will be in demand for 1H 2011 period.

15. In general, respondents anticipate that price will generally increase up to 20% in the next 6 months (January-June 2011).

16. Majority of respondents are optimistic (61%) of the property market for the coming 6 months (January-June 2011).

This post has been edited by kh8668: Jun 5 2011, 09:16 PM

i think the drop in oct onwards is largely due to the announcement of LTV and also festive season. not forgetting the blr rate hike too.
mac pick-up largely due to after cny and new launches?
i think the figure from mac to june will be much more interesting.
but really mind blowing to note more than rm10bil applied every month!!

Thanks for all supports..wakakakakaa......

wow
7 digits epf in 40s?
impressive
are u an employee with RM pay or doing business?
might sharing how to achieve that?
thanks.

KL is not that bad still compare to Penang island and also during the Asian financial crisis, i remember reading Singapore property prices came down 50% in the papers, a lot of those property speculators pre Asian crisis went bust including 1 of my close friend, from millions to negative.

fyi, for a salary worker earning RM10k/mth. their epf contribution including the employer will be rm2.3k/mth. if you have bonuses at say 3 mths per annum, you will be looking at 15x2.3k=rm34.5k/annum.
so every 3 years gives you rm100k.
and do not look down on coumpounded interest.
once your epf account hits rm100k onwards, even at 5%, every year you have at least rm5k into your account.
as your account grows larger, the time reduces signifficantly from rm100k to the next rm100k.
i foresee in my late forties, it will take me 2 years to get additional rm100k.
crossing my fingers.
but very ithcy to start withdrawing liao... haih...
anyway, it's a target which i hope to achieve.
i'm still a long long long way to go.
only about 80% short!

PS: and yeah, i'm just a normal employee. started with rm1.6k basic upon graduation. cheers! gotta work hard...

This post has been edited by kochin: Jun 6 2011, 08:40 AM

property could be asset or liabilities at the blink of eye.

Note: i can see 1 prop adv from 680k and now asking 620k quietly now... wait and see over the times... soon soon, more and more offer...



2012

Prop drop price can be from 2 scenarios:
1. market really peaking and slowly dropping to more reasonable rates
2. owner got cash issue and desperate now

if the case is the latter, i think you should go look at the prop. can pressure the seller for a better price
if its the former, tunggu dan lihat la

i recalled someone bring up the Ordos, Inner Mongolia's ghost town.
the below article (sorry oni in Chinese) said Ordos's individual GDP has surpassed HK and become hte richiest city in China due to booming of coal, rare earth metal, LPG, wools etc. I have also read China govt is building a many big projects for gas to liquid, and coal to liquid complexes in Ordos. (expect to run in 2013) p/s: liquid mean petroluem from coal or LPG. China has 1/3 of world coal reserves and china govt plan to convert coal to petrol and not depend too much on oils imports from middle east which future political is not stable. maybe this is why so many building are build now...

http://www.zaobao.com.sg/zg/zg110606_009.shtml

http://news.sina.com.cn/c/2011-06-05/073022589834.shtml