yup due to the pumping as well...
1v1 wise, VR is totally fine...
but how can u balance 2v2 3v3 and 4v4 without messing up 1v1?
and do note blizz have a bad history of balancing PvE and PvP...

u can jz take 4 toss and proxy gate 4v4 and if ur opponents are playing standard (partly reason why i stop my 4v4)...
3v3 is mostly about timing attacks while some map promote the offense...
2v2 is wildcard to me...
look at day9's funday monday and can see that team games are not meant to be taken seriously LOL

roach at 3.5 would be the best imho...
4 is on the borderline as it put the roach into range of so many harassment/ sniping...

---

Added on October 15, 2010, 10:49 amthe same with terrans going banshees rite? =p
u dun scout and the cloak banshee pew pew pew everything...
difference? marine are ur t1 easy to get cheap unit vs observers which requires tech...

while i do find banshee's damage is too high, i can still live with it as i know if a banshee ambush me? its my fault...
as huk said it, know the timing of banshees and u would be fine...

one thing for sure i gonna miss juggling VRs (mostly wont get em anymore for serious 1v1s but for trolling still do LOL)

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 15 2010, 10:49 AM

Roaches are suppose to be like tankers so if they get snipe then im fine because they are zerg meatshield for hydras until ultralisk comes out.

So im more concern about roaches actually dealing damage then receiving them.

blizz said roaches are not used...
koreans been using them a lot in GSL (fruity as well and he won GSL aka USD85k)...

roaches's main strength as said before is their mobility and their efficient cost...
roach speed is good even mid-late game stage (especially thor based builds)...
range4 would be the killing range for harassment (since buildings are 2x2 at least thus harder to def when u are on the other side)...
most pros were suggesting 3.5 range due to this reason as well...

ps: korean pros even build roach warren when they are at t2/ t3 for the reasons above

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 15 2010, 10:59 AM

yeay! Just updated my patch..
can't wait for super mass roaches!

jz dun get carried away...
immortals and stalkers still better than roaches...
one thing u can do (and should do) is early pressure vs toss...
it'll shut down toss's FE builds since sentry's 5range is nt that effective anymore for the korean FE...

My god can people stop saying that Fruitdealer do this and fruitdealer do that... It getting kinda lame. No one in this forums is as good as Fruitdealer.

If i said HuK did this and HuK did that so that how to play would you like to hear it?

Example: I remember HuK using minimap to chrono boost why don't you use it?

A lot of people are shying away from SC2 because people make it a competition more then a game. Just chill. We are not PROs. We are not FruitDealer's, we are not HuK, we are not xBoxeRx or whatever. We do not earn money from losing or winning so what is the big deal? I lost a lot of 1v1 when i change from Protoss to Zerg and i do not care.

In normal circumstances you would not use Roaches said by you yourself in previous post where you favor Zergling over Roaches. So this is to give Roaches more role in this game thats all.

This post has been edited by darkplacid: Oct 15 2010, 11:18 AM

Protoss gateway units will have a hard time against roaches i guess.

Oh man, I totally forgot about the 5 Roach Rush after switching to mutaling build.

5RR is gonna be so much more powerful now!

its only a big deal if you make it out to be.
some people plays it seriously/competitively, its their choice and you have no say in it. likewise you playing it casually and carefreely, that is fine to.

point being that for players that play it professionally, money is involved and most definitely balancing would be prioritized to those players. then again if you look at the current patch change, its more towards team game balancing, and the pro leagues atm are all solo games. so in that regards blizzard are watching out for casuals too.

Yes i agree but Aeco comments was coming from pro gamers to rebuttal mine changes bout roaches(Like using using Pro gamer logic against my logic which i have a different thinking). I do not care if FruitDealer wins or lose the next GSL, i just wanna use this awesome new unit called roaches more in my games. Balancing is an ongoing process and Blizzard is doing it maybe for the good or the bad of the game. Either way it has been implemented and thus live with it.

I maybe will be switching races again if i find Protoss less underpower now. I always play the underpower races so for me patch or not does not matter.

Terran still feels kinda OP with Marauders but we shall see.

This post has been edited by darkplacid: Oct 15 2010, 11:45 AM

Immortals and stalkers are still better than roaches...
That's true...but stalkers cost almost as much as twice than roaches, and roaches have higher damage than stalkers too.

doesnt matter when the roach can never touch the stalkers. (unless both guys just simply atk move, then i nothing to say)

Stalkers still can kite roaches with their 6 range though. And has faster movement speed then roaches without creep.

---

Added on October 15, 2010, 11:47 amAwww you beat me to it. LOL.

This post has been edited by darkplacid: Oct 15 2010, 11:47 AM

Roach Hydra mix gonna be more effective agaisnt collosus+core unit mix

roach range? oh nom nom nom nom!

Please do not Roach Rush. It will not work.

Lets try it out tonight

Damn I cant wait to g home to patch my game.

WHERE IS MY CHAT ROOM BLIZZARD!!!!!

Same here haha. Daydreaming at work thinking how suck VRs and reapers would be, while if roaches with +1 range and fungus to disable blink will greatly lift Z.

I think people are going to scream Zerg OP pretty soon.

Tried Roach Rushes, working like a charm.