u dun sac a pylon...
2 VR can get to phase 3 beam with only the pylon shields gone (provided that terran is bad enuff to let u charge at a pylon outside his ramp LOL)...
then u micro em over to ur opponent's ramp and bust their bunkers while keeping the charge up on ur zealots...
else with terran mass repair, u'll nvr break the bunker...
do note this is a high high high lvl technique which is freaking micro intensive to keep the charges up aka juggling...
not many ppl can do this perfectly to date (in fact no1 did in gsl1 beside a werra guy who beat ITR in yesterday's gomtv clanwar)...
even when i do this, i am forced to atk move my ground army with a sentry for GS as i dun have the apm to micro my ground...

to counter this?
a small squad of marines is all it takes as they have really low life...
if marine have stim? its even easier...
marine in bunker? not even close as the VR would melt by the time he get the bunker to half life...
as i take, low lvl leaguers dun have the marine count spamming marauders and marauders in bunkers...
if u scout well enuff, ur 1 single viking (1-1-1) can kill those 2 VR without taking a single hit...
so whichever build u go with as a terran there's a solution to it (see how ITR handle tester's VR in GSL1)...

and dun start with wut if ur opponent dunno etc...
the same can be said with cloak banshees etc...
dying to not scout does not make a unit bad nor is having a bad unit compo (1marine2marauder when a 2VR timing atk is so far away)...

I will say the same thing to you. Why not mix units to kill marines and viking?

Please do not rage just because your race unit get nerf.

I more rage about the reaper nerf then VR nerf right now.

Reaper nerf was not needed already if roaches has 4 range. Maybe reaper nerf is to help zealots which get snipe easily by reapers. So now nitro pack is now almost the same time as Zealot Charge.

Do it mean i still get to click on my nexus/hatches when hero marauder is stimming it?

cause u cant afford to?
250/150 on a another tech tree far away...
u can go at most 3gate 1stargate but u wont have the correct unit compo...
its usually 2gate 1stargate for a better mix...

as u can see, i linked nony, huk and jinro (jinro is a terran btw)'s comment...
the VR changes kill the whole purpose of VR...
and its meant to be a high risk high reward unit (watch inca vs one of the toss in gsl where the VR juggling was good but inca use stalkers to beat it in the end)...
in the end low leaguers and team players forced such a rushed change which affects high lvl 1v1...
gladly tell me wut units can answer BCs now...

as this current stage, its nt worth to get VR or even micro them to lvl2...

heck i bet half of the people here dun even knw the 2 lvls of vr and still think its 3lvls LOL...
wut more some ppl including u nvr got to experienced it done on u as the precharging takes lots of practice to get it right...

Do it mean i still get to click on my nexus/hatches when hero marauder is stimming it?

We shall see but i do get the point. But if VR purpose to counter massive units maybe changing the bonus dmage to Massive instead of armor is better. Their previous when charges just basically raped anything in this game.

wrong again...
a single VR now can get to phase 3 (lvl2) with only the pylon shields gone (12sec to charge to phase 3)

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Added on October 15, 2010, 10:05 am

simple thing: scout!
2 VR takes a long time to get out...
1 VR is not worth for this build against decent terrans...
if u see the toss's army is small, don't u feel strange as VR cost 250/150

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Added on October 15, 2010, 10:07 ambtw VR's design is high damage when charged while being squishy that require good micro (to get it charged and keep it alive)...
its a glass cannon to burst down high armored units especially BCs...
u cant compare that with a thor which have tonnes of health and armor to start with (not to mention range)...
apple vs orange

Sometimes I wonder how do I managed to unbind my hatchery hotkey.. din realised it's actually down haha

We shall see but i do get the point. But if VR purpose to counter massive units maybe changing the bonus dmage to Massive instead of armor is better. Their previous when charges just basically raped anything in this game.

Yes. VR requires micro and is good when charged. The nerf towards VR is changing the concept why it was first designed. Flux speed upgrade became useless for the speed decrease by almost 40% and the cost of the upgrade remains the same? Doesn't sound logical. Toss has lack of VRs against BC now, cos they'll basically get eaten by BC as breakfast.

problem: they are meant for protoss to be building harrass/busting/sniping too (at least pre-patch). buildings are not massive.

the best solution is change it to Damage level 2 decreased from 10 (+15 armored) to 10 (+10 armored best balance imho).  or 15 (+10 armored so it doesnt wtfbbqpwn buildings while still have its charge being damn good)

and to revert the nerf for flux vanes, OR reduce the cost and/or time for the research

yup basically VR juggling matches are highly rated in korea due to the skill ceiling u need to get it working...

@ quaz
jz change building type to NOT be armored (give it its own subtype)...
that way it handle VR, marauder drops, immortal drops and various other building snipes

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Added on October 15, 2010, 10:28 am

btw do u remember range 7 VR in beta?

previously it was 10(+15 to armored) at lvl 2...
jz reduce the base damage to something like 6(+15) and it would still serve its purpose of killing the mega units...
marine/ hydras would be able to kill it even easier since they are not armored...
just get some marines which is the terran's basic unit and VR rushes are a joke...

letting a VR charge up is the same as letting a baneling come near u...
does that mean baneling is imba?
how about baneling carpet bombs like wut fruity did (i'm sure nt every1 can do it jz like VR juggling)?

VR should deal bonus damage to massive unit and ability to deal extra to buildings then. Having bonus againts armor means that they will steamroll stalkers when charge which is also defeats the purpose of stalkers countering them cost to cost.

of course.

/inb4vrtoonerfed.jpg

A lot of 4v4 mid diamond league zerg does this, lings then banellings. Crushes whatever you have for defense, or a way to cut your army into half (either they kill half the units or it splits you and your teammates troop, serves like force field). I have not faced any issue on VRs, so I don't see why the nerf was neccessary. Same goes to reapers, what's the point for making reapers now? So they can be part of the single target unit defensing base?

FOR THE SWARM!

hmmm actually reapers was because of 2v2...
zerg+terran combo...
zerg starts wit a 6-10pool while the terran jz rush for reapers (even proxy at times)...
so u have lings in the front and reapers at the back...

but e-sport is about 1v1 (even gomtv invitationals is team-based 1v1)...
u cant balance 1v1 with 4v4...

as for VR, i did face quite a number of mass VR but if u atk move wit them they jz die...
and /lol viking kiting them...
or they spam tonnes of VR which CANT EVEN get charged up and this change is buffing lvl1...

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Added on October 15, 2010, 10:38 am

5roach builds incoming...
i'll be using that over speedling for my zerg randoms...