i jz patched up OMG

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Added on October 15, 2010, 2:04 amno more nexus snipe (they jz die slower)...
i wont use VR to break bunkers anymore i think...


This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 15 2010, 02:04 AM

no point making VR or upgrade the VR speed anymore...
16damage when it takes so much effort to charge n maintain it?
i rather pump immortals...

VR nerf is dumb: -

Liquid`Jinro Sweden. October 15 2010 03:25. Posts 29912 Profile Blog #
Lololol

Cant they just create some kind of defensive option against retarded 7 rax reaper cheese instead of making the unit useless? Like, give drones and probes back range so you can do moving shot vs them like you did vs bunker rushes in SC1.

Void ray nerf seems like it could almost be too much, Im not sure, but it seems like itd make them a bit impotent late game (maybe even more than it nerfs them early game as they should be almost the same vs marines at least)?

I think there is some overkill going on in this patch =[

Id much rather zergs were allowed to fast expo by virtue of being able to defend it with micro (which isnt possible right now because you cant actually micro against a reaper with anything ) than have them completely remove any cheese threat AND make it a lot harder to even attempt whatever cheese still exists since the hatchery is tougher to take down now.

Liquid`Tyler October 15 2010 03:23. Posts 4672 Profile Blog #
Void Rays worthless now They had such difficult to overcome weaknesses against very basic and common units, Marines Hydras and Stalkers. Marines and Hydras in numbers at like 1/4 or 1/3 the cost of the Void Rays could fend off Void Rays but that wasn't enough? Vikings totally owned Void Rays before they got speed upgrade and now they own them even when the Void Rays get speed upgrade. Stalkers can probably approach charged up Void Rays now too since that reduction in damage against armored is so huge. And of course Protoss keeps getting worse against air... brood lords, corruptors and battlecruisers are now much more difficult to deal with.

both jinro (terran) and nony (toss) agtreee its retarded

^
well said...
heard patch 4.01 is a mess LOL

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Added on October 15, 2010, 2:52 amliquid`HuK Canada. October 15 2010 03:40. Posts 596 Profile #
its good to see blizzard actually doing something instead of small little changes but like most here I don't agree with a lot of it, and the reaper changes make them useless. Especially since zergs have been getting better and better defending against reapers anyways.

huk has spoken

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 15 2010, 02:52 AM

the VR and reaper changes is to balance bronze leaguers imho...
seriously who die to mass VR or mass reapers when u scout?
of course i am one of the guilty ones who rape noobs wit mass reapers >.<

tip for terrans, jz mass Marauder in TvP since i doubt VR would actually get built now LOL...
since u dun need the Marine and Medivacs get nerf...
its now _M_

VR nerf is too much...
why u wanna make VR now when u can make immortals and still get obs along the way?

no1 uses lvl1charged VR...
u usually precharge at ur own pylon (proxy) or ur buildings (defense)...
so the lvl1 buff is pointless...
wut more VR's role is heavy armor buster like corruptors, BC and my fav bunkers...

immortals are 50gas cheaper, easier to get (since u need obs) and easy transition to colossus...

blame the bronze leaguers who think that spamming marauders and all their imbaness just to die to VRs LOL...

u dun sac a pylon...
2 VR can get to phase 3 beam with only the pylon shields gone (provided that terran is bad enuff to let u charge at a pylon outside his ramp LOL)...
then u micro em over to ur opponent's ramp and bust their bunkers while keeping the charge up on ur zealots...
else with terran mass repair, u'll nvr break the bunker...
do note this is a high high high lvl technique which is freaking micro intensive to keep the charges up aka juggling...
not many ppl can do this perfectly to date (in fact no1 did in gsl1 beside a werra guy who beat ITR in yesterday's gomtv clanwar)...
even when i do this, i am forced to atk move my ground army with a sentry for GS as i dun have the apm to micro my ground...

to counter this?
a small squad of marines is all it takes as they have really low life...
if marine have stim? its even easier...
marine in bunker? not even close as the VR would melt by the time he get the bunker to half life...
as i take, low lvl leaguers dun have the marine count spamming marauders and marauders in bunkers...
if u scout well enuff, ur 1 single viking (1-1-1) can kill those 2 VR without taking a single hit...
so whichever build u go with as a terran there's a solution to it (see how ITR handle tester's VR in GSL1)...

and dun start with wut if ur opponent dunno etc...
the same can be said with cloak banshees etc...
dying to not scout does not make a unit bad nor is having a bad unit compo (1marine2marauder when a 2VR timing atk is so far away)...

wrong again...
a single VR now can get to phase 3 (lvl2) with only the pylon shields gone (12sec to charge to phase 3)

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Added on October 15, 2010, 10:05 amsimple thing: scout!
2 VR takes a long time to get out...
1 VR is not worth for this build against decent terrans...
if u see the toss's army is small, don't u feel strange as VR cost 250/150

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Added on October 15, 2010, 10:07 ambtw VR's design is high damage when charged while being squishy that require good micro (to get it charged and keep it alive)...
its a glass cannon to burst down high armored units especially BCs...
u cant compare that with a thor which have tonnes of health and armor to start with (not to mention range)...
apple vs orange

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 15 2010, 10:07 AM

cause u cant afford to?
250/150 on a another tech tree far away...
u can go at most 3gate 1stargate but u wont have the correct unit compo...
its usually 2gate 1stargate for a better mix...

as u can see, i linked nony, huk and jinro (jinro is a terran btw)'s comment...
the VR changes kill the whole purpose of VR...
and its meant to be a high risk high reward unit (watch inca vs one of the toss in gsl where the VR juggling was good but inca use stalkers to beat it in the end)...
in the end low leaguers and team players forced such a rushed change which affects high lvl 1v1...
gladly tell me wut units can answer BCs now...

as this current stage, its nt worth to get VR or even micro them to lvl2...

heck i bet half of the people here dun even knw the 2 lvls of vr and still think its 3lvls LOL...
wut more some ppl including u nvr got to experienced it done on u as the precharging takes lots of practice to get it right...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 15 2010, 10:15 AM

previously it was 10(+15 to armored) at lvl 2...
jz reduce the base damage to something like 6(+15) and it would still serve its purpose of killing the mega units...
marine/ hydras would be able to kill it even easier since they are not armored...
just get some marines which is the terran's basic unit and VR rushes are a joke...

letting a VR charge up is the same as letting a baneling come near u...
does that mean baneling is imba?
how about baneling carpet bombs like wut fruity did (i'm sure nt every1 can do it jz like VR juggling)?

as tastosis said: stim and click, u cant click on it again!

i liked the buff to HP as it handle the problem of marauder drops without nerfing them...

yup basically VR juggling matches are highly rated in korea due to the skill ceiling u need to get it working...

@ quaz
jz change building type to NOT be armored (give it its own subtype)...
that way it handle VR, marauder drops, immortal drops and various other building snipes

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Added on October 15, 2010, 10:28 ambtw do u remember range 7 VR in beta?

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 15 2010, 10:28 AM

almost no1 use it for PvP...
inca's game in GSL showed u why...
his opponent had his VR charged all game long, even camp at inca's natural using inca's nexus to micro his charges and yet inca still beat it...

some micro wit stalkers > lvl 2 VRs

if they stick to current VR changed (aka to be part of ur army and nt glass cannons) then give back the range...
its only the same range as a banshee...

hmmm actually reapers was because of 2v2...
zerg+terran combo...
zerg starts wit a 6-10pool while the terran jz rush for reapers (even proxy at times)...
so u have lings in the front and reapers at the back...

but e-sport is about 1v1 (even gomtv invitationals is team-based 1v1)...
u cant balance 1v1 with 4v4...

as for VR, i did face quite a number of mass VR but if u atk move wit them they jz die...
and /lol viking kiting them...
or they spam tonnes of VR which CANT EVEN get charged up and this change is buffing lvl1...

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Added on October 15, 2010, 10:38 am5roach builds incoming...
i'll be using that over speedling for my zerg randoms...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 15 2010, 10:38 AM

yup due to the pumping as well...
1v1 wise, VR is totally fine...
but how can u balance 2v2 3v3 and 4v4 without messing up 1v1?
and do note blizz have a bad history of balancing PvE and PvP...

u can jz take 4 toss and proxy gate 4v4 and if ur opponents are playing standard (partly reason why i stop my 4v4)...
3v3 is mostly about timing attacks while some map promote the offense...
2v2 is wildcard to me...
look at day9's funday monday and can see that team games are not meant to be taken seriously LOL

roach at 3.5 would be the best imho...
4 is on the borderline as it put the roach into range of so many harassment/ sniping...

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Added on October 15, 2010, 10:49 amthe same with terrans going banshees rite? =p
u dun scout and the cloak banshee pew pew pew everything...
difference? marine are ur t1 easy to get cheap unit vs observers which requires tech...

while i do find banshee's damage is too high, i can still live with it as i know if a banshee ambush me? its my fault...
as huk said it, know the timing of banshees and u would be fine...

one thing for sure i gonna miss juggling VRs (mostly wont get em anymore for serious 1v1s but for trolling still do LOL)

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 15 2010, 10:49 AM

blizz said roaches are not used...
koreans been using them a lot in GSL (fruity as well and he won GSL aka USD85k)...

roaches's main strength as said before is their mobility and their efficient cost...
roach speed is good even mid-late game stage (especially thor based builds)...
range4 would be the killing range for harassment (since buildings are 2x2 at least thus harder to def when u are on the other side)...
most pros were suggesting 3.5 range due to this reason as well...

ps: korean pros even build roach warren when they are at t2/ t3 for the reasons above

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 15 2010, 10:59 AM

jz dun get carried away...
immortals and stalkers still better than roaches...
one thing u can do (and should do) is early pressure vs toss...
it'll shut down toss's FE builds since sentry's 5range is nt that effective anymore for the korean FE...

not then u are under atk at ur choke...
u are forced to engage and u cant kite lol...
remember range 4 + the 2x2 building = 6 total range...
stalkers cant shoot from the other side anymore...
this is why early roach pressure is good again...

its a very simply thing...
u dun need to be fruity to use roaches...
u can see so much zerg pros using roach...
they use it for mobility reasons and their cheap cost...
u dun need that much apm/ skill to use zerg well (the only micro u need is atk move)

if the pros are using, it is good enough at its current state...
wit the buff, u should be using it even more lol...

that's wut metagaming is about...

patch 1.2 (not 1.12)

old: u can FF and still shoot the roaches or trap the roaches
new: u cant FF and shoot the roaches as again ur buildings would be 2x2 at least without getting hit

the same as the whole 1space behind buildings cannon roach counter...
that is dead when roach gets 4 range...

so 5RR is a very very good build imho...
stock ur larvae and gas, and get it early...
the toss wont have enuff units...

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Oct 15 2010, 04:39 PM