This is as true as it gets.


The salary should be based on the size of the job, not the size of your previous job.

If you take a new job that is twice the size of your old job, then you should be paid twice as much (simplistically speaking).

The only reason why you would agree to an offer of your old salary + 20% (for eg.) is because your new job is actually not more than 20% larger than your old job. Even then, if you tell them your old salary, how can you be sure they wouldn't have offered you 40% more salary to do 20% more work?

And if the new job is actually twice the size, then you would have shot yourself in the foot if you encouraged them (by telling your previous salary) to only offer you 20% more salary. If that's the case, you just wasted a potentially good offer and your time & effort.

In the finance dept of the MNC I'm with, our salaries are based on the type of work (accounts technician to Controller to CFO etc) X the amount of work (based on revenue and volume). If I am reassigned from managing a business worth $10 million revenue to managing one worth $1 billion revenue, I'll make damn sure they pay me the entire $990 million differential (according to our pay scale, of course) rather than just accept a standard previous salary + 20%. Ditto if it's a promotion in terms of type of work.

Hmm...true... but I never give out the salary info until the HR makes the job offer and request payslip as to come out with the salary package. I never will volunteer and will hold out until last moment possible. Not sure why I never tried to say NO when HR ask for payslip, but seems things like this don't offend me. But I never do it just because I am worried that they will not offer me the job. I go in with the confidence that I am worth what I am asking for, and always seem to get what I ask for even though it's higher by industry standard (to my knowledge of course).

But I'm open to this, I will try out this idea of withholding salary info on my next job hunt. Who knows, this method may gain extra leverage. No harm trying it, right?

Agree

Typically, you are asked for latest 2 months' salary payslip. This serves the following purposes:

1. Cost
- Companies always use your last drawn salary as a base when making an offer. Other factors considered will include industry benchmark (typically obtained from a few major consulting companies such as Towers Watson), internal equity (salary paid among existing employees), the job itself and the responsibilities that comes with it (e.g. if you are an Assistant Manager, and the company offers Manager position, obviously the additional accountability and responsibility will justify a higher premium).

- Based on the point above, the HR Dept need to ensure that you are telling the truth, and not inflating your last earned salary in order to give youself a big salary jump. I know it may seem unfair, but it's the truth, and I am sure if you own a company, you would do the same.

2. Verification
- Salary slip verifies that you actually work with the company until your last working date as you state in your employment application form.
- Why is this important? So we can spot if anything is wrong. A candidate may leave because he/she was asked to go, could be due to some negative things at work, and he/she could not find job for 3 months. To make things look good, he/she entered last working day as end August 2010, when he/she actually left in April 2010. When the candidate could not produce the payslip as what he/she wrote in the form, an alert HR person will be suspicious and would verify/check further. This is just an example so you get the idea....I know background checks can be done, but this is an area that can trigger the HR, informing us that soemthing is not right here....

My opinion is this: when HR asks for such document, you have no choice. Objecting means "you are being difficult", which is not to your advantage being branded as such even before you join the company, or even offered the job yet.

What can you do to preserve whatever advantage you have left in salary negotiations? Never ever indicate your expected salary. Focus on "wow-ing" the interviewers until they would fight to hire you. Let them quote you a figure, take some time to decide and come back with a higher one (make sure you have enough salary data, since companies have limited resources, i.e. if u insist on 50% increment when the company only offers 20%, there is no way they will meet your demands, unless you are an absolute expert and your skills/knowledge are not easy to source in the market).

Having said the above, salary is not the only consideration when deciding on an employment offer.....

Hope the above helps.

yeowa,

IT / Data Comm / Telecom..

Or, you have NEVER met people that are SENIOR ENOUGH to know their own worth...

kelvin_tan,

It is VERY SIMPLE. People networking....

How could you NOT KNOW?? Especially in Malaysia. It is a small world.. In every industry, there are ONLY a small number of KEY people. Everyone know everyone...

Plus, I use people networking to job hunt across multiple countries too...

Dreamer

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Added on September 9, 2010, 8:44 pmhrguy,

1. Cost

BS. Benchmark let you hire AVERAGE people at AVERAGE SALARY. Why do I want to be AVERAGE and get paid the AVERAGE??

So, I bypass HR and deal with Hiring Manager. After Hiring Manager make me an offer, the HR has NO CHOICE but to rubber stamp IT.

HR is the ENEMY. They ONLY CARE about the cost..

Let me ask you a REVERSE QUESTION how long can a company last by hiring AVERAGE PEOPLE.... Not long.. HR is THE PROBLEM that is killing the COMPANY...

2. Verification

BS. This is what reference for.. Are you saying HR is TOO LAZY to call the previous employer and find out?? Even for employment verification, we could provide salary slip with salary amount WHITE OUT...

<< Objecting means "you are being difficult", which is not to your advantage being branded as such even before you join the company, or even offered the job yet.?>>

Do not deal with HR. They are the ENEMY.... And, they cannot offer YOU a job. Only the HIRING MANAGER can. So, why deal with people that are USELESS??

<< - Why is this important? So we can spot if anything is wrong. A candidate may leave because he/she was asked to go, could be due to some negative things at work, and he/she could not find job for 3 months. >>

HR is TOO LAZY to check the REFERENCE.. If HR do their job, it will all come out...

Dreamer




This post has been edited by dreamer101: Sep 9 2010, 08:44 PM

Folks,

80% of jobs are filled via personal referral. 80% of the jobs are filled before they ever being posted.. If YOU are talking and contacted via HR, you are ONLY applying to ONLY 20% of the job opening??

WHY are you doing that?? Fighting with all those NAIVE people on the 20% available positions??

So, all those posting on the thread are debating and arguing on 20% of the positions. 80% of positions are filled via personal referral and HR only rubber stamp the offer after the hiring manager decide who to hire...

I had 10+ jobs across 20+ years.. They are all from personal referral or through headhunter... HR NEVER play a role on the hiring decision..

Dreamer

Dear dreamer, u r speaking for the IT & comm industry where skills are unique depending on individuals. It is different from FBCG and other
services industries. Wait till when recession hit and you need to apply job in other sector. No matter how senior you are, your arrogance is killing yourselves. And I hope I don't receive your CV in my company as I will put your CV aside for not fufilling my company's requirement. LOL... Just kidding...
I am out from this topic. Pointless argument with those who are as hard as a rock.

yeowa,

1) Before you argue and debate with ANYONE, how many research and books had you read on job hunting and interview. I spent 20+ years on this.. All those research point to the same conclusion and it applies to all industries....

2) I had survived at least 6 recessions. I had worked across 4 industries with 10+ jobs.. How many had you went through??

3) I always get above average bonus and increments even during recession..

4) By the way, I am a few years from early retirement...

<<And I hope I don't receive your CV in my company as I will put your CV aside for not fufilling my company's requirement.>>

5) You are NOT at the LEVEL to hire me...

<<I am out from this topic. Pointless argument with those who are as hard as a rock.>>

6) Or, it is YOU that KNOW NOTHING??

Dreamer

I didnt read the replies here, so pardon me if my reply is slow poke.

The reason they want ur payslip is to verify the amount u tell is true anot. FOr my case, the new employer asked for my expected salary only.. never ask for my current pay.. so i put RM15k as expected. Then when after i submit my payslips and all (rm9k) the offer came in and guess how much they offer me, RM10k+ only.. so meaning whatever 'expected' we put in is useless la.. they will offer base on how much they like and ur current pay nia.

So if possible, avoid giving ur current payslip la. I learnt my lesson liao. I rejected them dy.

Average Joe only will give out their pay slip and average joe will only ask for pay slip. Even during depression or no food, average joe will sell even their child for slavery. Dreamer and i have been thru this and we are just telling what personality traits that will bring goodness inside the person . Yeowa, we are not rock but u read so much and i even posted a link and you still don't get the picture. who's the rock.

giving out your salary slip to bank for loan is a requirement but giving out to someone who "DOUBTED" your application ??? Like i said , what job is this??? Is this so important when they like someone and they don't trust what he said???

First, they like the candidate a lot because of his appearance, his communication level , his intelligence, his record experience as stated,
his education background etc... but they cast the spell DOUBT on him ??? I mean, this is BLACK ART. Period.

it's time to learn where the hypocrisy sign of the person character and sometime our blood has it because our examination system turn out to be this way. too bad if some still in the sleep.

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Added on September 10, 2010, 8:37 amDid Donald Trump hire the Apprentice winner in the show by telling them "You Are Hire but show me the previous Salary slip first"?

This post has been edited by hackwire: Sep 10 2010, 08:37 AM

From my experience, I put my expected salary as non-negotiable. Most people say their salary is negotiable and that's exactly what the HR ppl try to do. I do give my payslip when requested but am still firm on the figure I want. So if I earn 10k, and want 13k I still won't accept 12.5k. I don't try to ask for 15k, hoping to get 13k (or even 15k). Happened to me once, and I said no. Company crawl back later and said will give me what I want, but told them I got another offer already, so expected salary is now revised upwards. I was prepared to lose the offer already, but didn't really care since they were trying to play hardball with me.

Must be a checking on your previous salary, so they would not offer you with "over-salaried"
btw, HR is good in negotiating in terms of salary.

This post has been edited by JenLOI: Sep 10 2010, 04:29 PM

wow hebat i like ur attitude

This is typical Msian standard.. I never expose and share my P&C details to potential hiring companies or headhunters.. They should know what the current market pay scale within the industry.. if they insist to ask me for the payslip i am more than happy to let go the job or lose that headhunter.. they shld know how much u worth even before they come and approach u.. furthermore we shld be reward according to what we can deliver and not based on what is our last drawn salary.. this is what i really hate about Msia headhunters.. so far i hv only walk into couples (very few) in Msia that never ask for payslips or P&C info and yet can tell what exactly the range u can command very accurately.. those more horrible 1, will even ask what is ur age and what is ur date of birth.. WT???? it has to do with the job? if capable for the job, why it has to do with my age? is that mean the older i am the more pay i can get? the higher i can go? Msian HR and headhunters has to be more relevant.. to make thing worse (not worst) there are a lot of "consultant" who are so young and inexperience for the placement.. sigh.. anyway.. that my general experience.. not mean for everyone.. dun flame me after all..

This post has been edited by CanonA95: Sep 10 2010, 06:53 PM

normaldude,

So, you put in a number and say it is non-negotiable. But, why even put in a number to begin with?? Just DO NOT PUT in a number at all and say negotiable...

Until you talk with the hiring manager and know how much they need you, why put in a number in the first place??

A) If they happen to have a BIG PROJECT and they need SOMEONE like you URGENTLY and you are the ONLY few with RELEVANT experience, why settle for less??

B) On the other hand, if they happen to offer training and project that let you go to the next level, you may be willing to settle for less.

Do not even discuss about salary until you can find out MORE about the job...

In ANY TYPE of negotiation, whoever put out a number FIRST loses.

In many companies, the HIRING MANAGER can offer you 13K if HR do not know your PREVIOUS PAY. But, they cannot after HR see your pay slip at 9K or 10K. If you are willing to stick your non-negotiated expected salary, just give pay slip and white out the amount. If HR complain, ask them to go fly kite...

Dreamer

Which ever party that put the figure on the negotiation table first would normally loose. Any numerical value in expected salary column is a syntax error

I've learn my lesson by showing my pay slip. I get a job that is paying 25% lower. Hell, I was arrogant b*tch tht need to prove myself I was right, which end up,..wrong.

I will not show my salary. If they want me to prove my skill, please refer to my resume (& project I handle before). I nego my salary based on my EXPERIENCE in line I'm working in.

I, myself a hiring manager. HR procedure of asking a payslip is BS. They already hv and knw salary limit. It's just for HR to skip the part calling the ex-company for verification.

If we work on saturdays, should we be compensated with a higher amount as well? So assuming we work 20 days per month, and there are 4 saturdays, should they pay us (24/20 * market rate salary)? Assuming as well this is a fresh graduate position so there are no adjustments for experience.

gloomberg,

1) Come on... There is NO SUCH THING as should or whatever. You get paid according to whatever you can get the EMPLOYER agree to pay you at. The CORRECT QUESTION is DO YOU KNOW how to negotiate for BETTER PAY??


2) Who say that just because you are FRESH GRAD = NO EXPERIENCE??

A) It is all depends on how you SELL yourself and how do you show what you did is RELEVANT to your job??

B) A smart fresh grad will prepare 1 to 2 years before graduation and start doing stuff to differentiate himself / herself from OTHERS.

There are 2 kinds of people in the world

A) People that LET things HAPPEN to them.

B) People that MAKE things happen.

Which kind are you??

Dreamer

This post has been edited by dreamer101: Sep 12 2010, 01:32 AM

Nice piece of advise, real good one. Too bad that is not the kind of advise I'm seeking for. Can u see the question first?
Let me specify it once more, I'm just asking according to any sort of labour law out there that states that we should be getting more or any adjustments being made if we work on saturdays... =,=
The answer can be:
(a) Yes - If yes, how is it done
(b) No - means you just have to live with it

To be more specific again, it's a full-time job with a MNC. Not part-time.

*Sorry to offend u dreamer101, ur advise is one hell of an advise, but sometimes when people wants a digital camera, they don't really want a DSLR (maybe because they can't afford it or it's just not what they want. And sorry again if I posted this in the wrong section, please forgive this newbie here*