ok lets puss all this negative energy aside and talking about how imba zerg are.. Lol

kkk imma 15 hatc-

Oh noes I got bunker rushed wat do

usually i have a drone patrol below the ramp so i dun get bunker blocked...
best way is still to scout before deciding the 15hatch (scout the close position if ur opponent nt there u can 15hatch with some defenses ASAP)...

[sarcasm]
but 15hatch is autowin vs toss and terran...
when i 15hatch and my opponent sees it, they just ragequit...
they lost all the will to fight as though their god suck their soul away...
[/sarcasm]

I been playing zerg, and trying to find out what is the weak point of 15 hatch that protoss can use.. I still cant find it..

If 4 gate push, zerg can use mass roach to def and get eco advantage later.
If void ray rush, rush can mass queens

Zealot rush

15 hatch means late pool

there's 2 window where the 15hatch is vulnerable...
first is the protoss's 2gate stalker pressure push forcing u to commit to lings without speed which is bad or spine crawlers...
with that ur drone count drops while the toss just expand...

from there the toss have 2 transition...
the first would be a 1base blink which is good on some maps and help u bypass the defense at natural (especially the spines)...

the other is my favourite, 2bse5gate timing push with +1...
the timing would hit u when ur muta is almost done forcing ur mutas to defend...
if u go roach, then all u have are roach and lings...
with stalkers and good FF (u should have stockpile some sentry up etc) that would be the killer push...

zealot rush is bad due to their slow speed and easily negated by roaches and allowing ur roaches to mount a big counter push unlike stalkers (and cannon at their base)...

there aso the 15 forge build which of course + manner pylon below ur ramp wit 1 cannon forcing ur natural to be canceled...
and from the 15forge if he choose not to cannon u, he can jz nexus (he would have enuff minerals that time as well) + cannon his natural and transition into a 3 gate push into 5/6 gate timing push...

this are the american toss build which my fren in korea server (1.7k rated now) find effective even vs koreans...

personally i always do the 15 forge or nexus depending on wut i scouted...
the double chrono from 2 nexus is really useful and while it is hard to defend a 2 base roachling push, if u can defend it, u can gear up for some terrible terrible damage!

there is no need to kill the 15hatch instantly like wut the common rushes are trying to do...
instead turn it into a liability...
at times i would jz sac my hatch and go for a all out roachling counter push

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Added on November 18, 2010, 9:20 pmps:
most zerg would die from the 2base5gate+1 push unless: -
1. u keep up the pressure wit ur lings/ roach poking
2. get roach speed
3. get +1armor to counter the +1zealot from 2shotting ur lings
4. get burrow (solution to the FFs totally)

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Nov 18 2010, 09:21 PM

I've seen a lot of Zerg do that 15 FE recently on my play, don't know why, maybe am moving up on my rank.

All I do is just erm, if I can make it to the expo in time, I'll stay on the place for a long time delay as much as I could and pull off another SCV to build a bunker nearby, if can't, just streak build the bunker, mostly they'll pull off their drones to fightback, and by this time I got the slight economical advantage, get a couple of marines to harass, if they don't, they're in a big trouble.

As a Terran, I do see reaper still a good counter to this though depend on maps really. As long as you can either delay or destroy the FE, you're definitely not behind of him.

reapers are good in the way they pin ur opponent down to ur map...
and they are still a good opener vs zerg even when u can 5 rax reaper anymore...

problem wit 15hatch is the management of ur larvae on army vs drones and how offensive/ defensive u wanna be...
15hatch would need good overlord scouting to play reactively which somehow make marines really really good...
100 minerals + 1 larvae is always deadly...

shooting overlords while u are rushing is really really annoying for the zerg to defend...
i almost always preemptively drop 2 spines (3rd one near the clift for LT as thor drops are annoying as hell) when my overlord are denied...
my opponent told me after the game that him seeing the spine allow him to just expand and mule up...

still when u reach the 300 army mark mutablings -> speed roach reinforcement its pretty much a GG
that would require 3 bases to do though (and 4-5 hatches)...

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Added on November 18, 2010, 10:54 pmps: not rare to see 15hatches as it is popularized by kyrix nestea etc... same as me hating playing mass marine rush terrans as a zerg thanks to foxer "

This post has been edited by evofantasy: Nov 18 2010, 10:54 PM

Lol, can't be helped, if Zerg establish their FE its like a GG already.

I just plug the power to my computer

contrary to the believe, having the zerg being 1 base above u is not really an issue as long as they cant utilize the larvae/ saturation...
if they make too much army = too little drone = too little resource = unspent larvae...
this is why i play random to really know each class and their weaknesses (according to my style though)...

Pretty much, but then again, almost all the Zerg that FE did pretty well on balancing that up.

Rule of thumb: Zerg always need to have one base more than Protoss and Terran to keep up.

It's not like they want to FE, they just need to do that. And if Protoss or Terran have one base less, it's actually pretty normal. But if you PP, it's pretty abnormal.

This post has been edited by westley0214: Nov 18 2010, 11:14 PM

i agree with this point. Normally if i see spine crawlers. I would just fe as it is pretty safe n i would just leave my hellions there to deny tumors n poke whenever while i expand and mass upy deathball. Hehe

Hi, noob here. Would like to get some advice on fending off a 6 pool rush. T & P can walled up by building at the entrance.

What bout zergs?

10 pool? you should be able to fend it off + worker with spine + some micro.


BTW.. Tasteless said in gsl2 final, 14 hatch is an auto loose in Korean server, yet Nestea did it in almost every single game.. I really feel uncomfortable with player like Foxer playing super aggressively with early aggression yet he manage to fend it off..

I think toss cant wall up...it will be silly for them to do so.

For zerg just 10 pool and build just 1 Spine nicely located will suffice. use drones to fend off any lings that attack the spine.

Have fun!!

good building placement mostly...
10pool is the safest as well in ZvZ...

do remember if he 6pool, he is having much less drone, even if u loose some drone u guys would at the worse case be at the same drone count =p


to be fair, nestea only actually really defended that rush in the game7...
other games he was pretty affected (and there was no rush for the LT/ scrap station games)...

i would nt say it really auto win but koreans are known to be very aggressive...
4 gate variants are very popular there in fact (incontrol in STOG)...

At least even he is affected but he managed to come back, mostly it would have been a gg with that kind of aggression

nestea is an old man. he has all the experience ;p