Hi all,

Need advice from all the guru here.

I started working out in Jan cause i was slightly overweight. I was at 73kg, 168cm, 25% fat. I went out some diet cutting all fatty food, and started drinking protein shakes two months ago.

I do 0.5hr of cardio and 1.5 hr of weight training, 3-4 times a week. My weight reduction was going well and I start drinking protein shakes two months ago and start noticing my muscle showing up which i'm extremely happy.

Now, i'm at 65kg, 20% body fat....sometimes i feel that i'm too thin now. I still have muscle but its not as buff as i seen some ppl in the gym. How do you reduce fat % but at the same time want more buff. I think my fat % is too high and thus my 6 packs is still not showing. If i am going to continue doing cardio to reduce the fat %, then my arms and chest seem to look thinner by the day. The muscle in these parts does not look buff. Do i need to start weight gainer drink?

20% bf, seems like u r losing ur muscle during the cutting phase. Hows u r diet?

Bulking dont need any weight gainer, More calories = Weight gain, So eat more if u wan to gain.

My diet....

Morning..
Oatmeal with protein shakes

Lunch
Rice, fish and veges

Dinner
Protein shakes after workout
Bread and tuna or/and salad

eggs are good source of protein.
mayb u can add them in ur current meals.
u want to b muscular, ur protein intake has to b high, general rule is 1 - 1.5g per every pound u have on u.
if u r 65kg now, tat translates to 140+ lbs.
u need approx 150 - 220g of protein everyday.
an egg consists of approx 6-8g of protein.
check how much ur protein shakes contains.

hello looks like you and i have the same problem.
i have alot of trouble hanging on to my muscle mass too... and i was making big mistakes - not enough protein, not enough food in general, and too much cardio. on top of that i was compulsive with my routine - low carb, low fat, HIIT cardio or endurance training style like 10km runs. try to cut down ur cardio perhaps... instead of running or jogging start walking - best bit of advice darklight has given me.

good luck with the diet cant help u too much there cos i myself and trying to figure my own out. BUT i think ur eating way too little for a guy who works out. even i eat more than that.

Hi,

Thanks for the advice. I do seem to be eating too little. I do take eggs with my meal but just one or two eggs per day. Will increase my protein intake to see how things goes.

Regarding the protein shake intake..i know that we should take Whey after workout, which i do and take the slow release protein before i sleep, which i do too. But is it adviceable to take the protein shake between meal during the day. And if i do, which kind do i take, whey or cassein?

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Added on June 18, 2010, 1:56 pmWow...i just check. The ON Whey is only 25gm of protein per scoop. For my req, according to Janson...i need like 150gm min....That is a lot of protein intake? Is there side effects to this. Heard that un-used protein will turn to fat. Is that a right assumption?

This post has been edited by dwk2112: Jun 18 2010, 01:56 PM

You shouldn't try culking (gaining muscle and losing fat) unless you've been training for quite a number of years. It takes a lot of experience to do so. The gains you've got in the beginning were mostly beginner gains, now they're slowing down. Cheat meals once a week, carb up! Caloric expenditure from cardio + caloric deficit from diet = double negative gains if you overdo them both.

Only 4 meals a day? 3 solid and 1 liquid shake? Not enough. It's not just how many cals you get in daily but the timing in which you eat them. Food proteins have been scientifically proven to be vastly superior to supplementary proteins. You depend too much on just shakes in the morning.

ps my girlfriend eats more than you. no offense.

No.

This post has been edited by darklight79: Jun 18 2010, 02:10 PM

Thanks darklight....Initially, I was more focus on losing weight and reduce my junk food intake. Believe me, I use to eat anything and everything in front of me. Now, I control my diet but i may have gone overboard with it. Will start increasing my food.

I do find it hard to do the 5 meals a day cause i am not a snack eating person. In fact, i don't take breakfast before this. I will try it again by eating something in the afternoon.

What's so hard brother? Breakfast, lunch, PWO shake, post post workout meal/dinner, pre bedtime meal.

That's already 5!

I find it hard cause after one meal...i feel bloated and full that can last me 5-6 hours and do not feel like eating anymore. If i do, I feel uneasy. I do take oatmeal before my workout but even that, I feel full and find it hard to eat anything after the workout. I usually workout in the evening.

I know this is something i need to overcome.

That's weird. Are you working hard enough? I'm insanely hungry after my workouts.

I do...i think i do... Just that after the oatmeal and after the protein shake immediately after the workout...I seriously don't feel like eating. But i will eat something...used to just eat bread and tuna....Will eat a full meal.

I get the same thing. After workouts I find I'm insanely hungry as well, but I just can't down any solid food till about 30+ minutes or so later. So I usually just down my PWO shake and wait a while longer before eating.

That's weird. I usually feel hungry after my work out. But I don't immediately eat after my workout. I rest for about 30 minute to an hour before taking solid food.

BUCKET OF KFC.

You serious!!!! I don't mind...

TS,

I'm in the same case as you. Working out for half a year and shows no sign of bulking. I weigh around 65kg as well, but i don't think i eat around 150g of protein each day. Perhaps near 100g I would say.

Anyway, few weeks ago i came across Stronglifts 5x5 and downloaded the ebook. Information inside it were great and this is my 2nd week into the programme. Its main concept is lift heavy and increase weight every session. Its based on compound exercise rather than isolation and it gets your whole body bigger at the same time.

This is my 2nd week into the program and I've felt my chest grown bigger. Hope by the 2nd month i could see further drastic changes.

Just some advice TS.

Have a nice day

Hi...thanks for the recommendation. Will find and download the book to read about it.

Same here man. even right after a large meal, i can "feel" my body crying out for more food!

in your case, you need to fix your diet first if youre not packing on mass.
its not just about protein. its about caloric surplus, suffcient protien and nutrition timing.
however, u recommended a strength program to TS. thats not exactly the right fix to TS question since we have no idea what his current training program is like.

No comment on your training, since you didnt mention anything bout it. but i assume you're doing it right since you didnt really ask bout it.
but for packing on mass, or losing body fat, stick to either or. not both.
lose the fats first, then go and pack on mass after.
Its all about the DIET.
for fat loss, need caloric defict.
pack on mass, need caloric surplus.
and for both fat loss and mass gain, you shd have a 5 meal a day plan.

bugod i send u d ebook.. if u haven already downloaded it la haha.

EAT EAT EAT. less carbs more protein

Hi...Thanks. I read it during the weekend. Will include some of the 5x5 workout to my current routine.

My current training routine:

3-4 times a week
Start with cardio (treadmill) - 0.5hours

Workout A - back & biceps
Workout B - chest & triceps
Workout C -shoulder & legs

I use the pyramid style routine, each workout consists of 3-4 sets, start with lighter weight with 15 reps and adding weight after each set but reducing the reps. No matter what weight and how many reps, I ensure that the i will struggle to complete each sets, pushing myself to finish it.

I do understand now that I have to eat more. But I am always worry about increasing my body fat %. I guess its all depend on the type of food I'm taking.

This post has been edited by dwk2112: Jun 21 2010, 09:49 AM

Bro, stop worrying too much. Body Fat% is just FIGURESS!

Just eat properly, train, and have enough of rest. DIET and the TIMING is very important for bodybuilding.


If you are serious about loosing body fats, maybe you might want to start with 5-10 mins cardio warmup and leave the remaining cardio at the end of your workout session.

Read this up,

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/350964

Man I am encountering the same problem...

I was previously at 80.5kg, and now at 68kg after 4 months plus of workout and controlled diet. My daily diet:

Breakfast:
- Oat, cornflakes, milk

Lunch:
- Economy Rice with meat, vege

Dinner:
- 2 Apples or 2 slices of wholemeal bread or none

Apart from that, I maintained 45 mins of jogging, and regular routine of strength training (abt 45 mins ~ 1 hrs). The result from that is that I noticed my body weight drop, and reduced waistline. But I gain very limited amount of muscle...

I know it's hard to gain muscle while losing fat, but at least I hope I can maintained the current one, can someone give me some advice? I am in dilemma of choosing whether to continue losing fat or should increase my body mass... Now everytime I noticed a weight loss, i start to worried if I am really losing my fat or it's my muscle that shrinking...

By the way, how do you measure your body fat?

I love using this line. My girlfriend eats more than you. I'm dead serious. No wonder you're shrinking. Go to diet thread sticky and read the last 2 pages.

Man but how to lose fat without eating less =(

And which diet thread sticky? This one:

http://forum.lowyat.net/topic/350964

Most of the overweight ppl will also tell u they can't lose weight even though they eat very little.

I afraid if I eat I will become fat again >.<

I lose weight, but I am uncertain that those weight I lose contain how many % of fat and how many % of muscle...

whats ur height?

Where is your protein?? Drop cornflakes and start eating EGGS for breakfast. In between meal u might wana eat something light like bread with peanut butter or fruits

As for lunch, eat lesser carbs but more MEAT and VEGES.

Dinner, MEATS, EGGS, VEGES, FRUITS.

Post and Pre workout meal can be replaced with some workout shake if u want. but try to stick with solid protein food.


U are eating way too little protein~

My height is just 167 ~ 168...

I only eat half cup of rice and with plenty of meat and vege for lunch...

Solid protein food is pretty hard for me... I need to work until 6 ~ 7 pm, and take lrt for 45 mins to reach the gym nearby my house... If I workout until too late, then I will be having hard time on the next morning...

u need to fix ur diet now, eat more food with protein, easiest way to get protein is EGG white, eat more eggs around 10 per day~ include some protein into each meal

if u really got no time, then u might wana consider taking supplements like whey protein

workout moderately, not necessary hardcore, take it slowly, its a lifestyle. building muscle takes a few months to years~

i eat 20 during my bulking.. hehehhe.. plus whey n stuff.. i gained from 55 to 85(current)

omg 10 eggs per day... I ever tried to stuck in 4 eggs for my breakfast... the taste is... T_T

You're complaining about 10 eggs a day...................................................................................................

With your kind of diet, you are going to lose muscles as well.

Try this.

Breakfast
5 whole eggs (fried, scrambled, half boiled or hard boiled)
1/2 cucumber
2 tablespoon coconut or red palm or olive oil

Lunch
200g Chicken or fish (weight without bone)
Vegetables
2 tablespoon coconut or red palm or olive oil

Dinner
same as lunch

2 hrs before workout
Protein shake

Post Workout
Protein shake.

You'll lose fats and gain muscles at the same time if you follow this diet.

then go for other alternative la.. hahaha.. all the best

I'm definitely losing muscle based on the readings on the scale (BMR drop, Impedance drop) but funnily enough, I can lift heavier than in the past.

but stronger, scale not always right

Since writing this post...i started eating more. Initially, I was concern about my weight and started eating salad for dinner and getting down on my meat and junk food....I lost about 8 KG and one day, I realised I look haggard the day after my workout. After eating more and working out more...i find my body is more meaty...not fat. But more round. The thing i realised is that i have to eat more...but i have to be cautions of the fat content cause i do want to continue on reduce body fat %. I seen some ppl in the gym...though that there are big...but there are more fat covering the muscle. Lack the muscle definition due to the body fat %

Now...my diet...

Breakfast

Nasi Kerabu (workout the day before)
Oatmeal (non-workout day) with milk
1 scoop of Whey

Lunch
Mixed rice with vege, chicken and fish

Afternoon
Oatmeal with milk
Biscuits
1 scoop of Whey

After workout
1 sccop of Whey

Dinner
Bread and tuna
Rice and meat

Before sleep
1 scoop of Cassein protein


I also reduce the amount of cardio in my workout....Do cardio only2 times a week, 0.5 hours each

This post has been edited by dwk2112: Jul 8 2010, 11:11 AM

Your after workout sucks. 1 scoop of whey is enough to just feed a baby. Lol. 2 scoops of whey with 2 tablespoons of glucolin man.

I need to work until 7 pm everyday... So I don't usually eat dinner (the gym close at 10:30 pm)... Can I just drink the Protein Shake and straight away go workout and drink again after workout?

So I cannot eat rice at all?

Between the after workout, 1 sccop of Whey and my before bed time, 1 scoop of Cassein is only about 2-3 hours apart.

Between every meal is suppose to be 2-3 hours apart.

Take advantage of the anabolic window my friend. Within 2 hours get the most amount of nutrients in. You can mix 1 scoop of whey and 1 scoop casein together into your PWO shake, then eat an hour later or sooner if you feel hungry.

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Added on July 9, 2010, 1:49 pm2.5 to 3. Not more than 4 hours apart unless you're sleeping or chained to a wall with spikes or severely crippled by an injury.

This post has been edited by darklight79: Jul 9 2010, 01:49 PM

How long does the anabolic window last after workout??? I know that our muscle grow when you are at rest...then how much day rest is needed for us to start working out on the same muscle group..

Most bodybuilders give a bodypart 5-7 days before they hit it again. Bodybuilding = recovery = bodybuilding.

Anabolic window according to many sources last 30 mins to an hour after your anaerobic workout. That's the best time to get food or a shake in.

hi mr ring.
I thought gaining muscles and losing fat at the same time is strongly not recommended for newbie because we dont have experience yet?
i am still a newbie ,anyone enlighten me please

It is possible but hard as hell. Diet is never an exact science. Which is why some people attempt a caloric surplus on their diet yet utilize metabolic enhancers such as green tea, fat burners, etc. They might work, to an extent. The caloric in vs out rule still applies.

for a better option,we rather bulk along with some fat only cut it after ?

Well don't overdo bulking la. Fat gain is inevitable but our aim is to minimize it while bulking no?

thank you =)
i'il try,still in learning

Wait, green tea can help reduce weight?

Green tea boosts your metabolism thus burning more calories!

Sushi King here I come

For once dump away what you have learnt in schools or books. You can gain muscles and burn fats at the same time provided you follow the correct method of dieting. Regardless of whether you are a newbie, intermediate or an advanced bodybuilder, anyone can also do it. Forget about calorie counting. For a fat person, he/ she can eat as much as he/ she wants and still lose fats at the same time provided he/ she knows how to manipulate his/ her hormone response by playing with the diet (the macro nutrients). Once, this fat lady friend of mine who became very over weight in spite of eating a low fat diet. She had only 3 small low fat meals a day. By calorie counting, she should be losing weight but instead she gained. I taught her low carb, hi protein and hi fat diet. She ate 5 hi protein hi fat meals a day. She loved this diet because she could eat her forbidden foods and she ate more than what she usually did. She ate more fat and more calorie than before. Fat has 9 cal as opposed to carb and protein which have 4. Theoretically, she should be fatter. But she lost 30lbs in 1 year without exercising. She was a couch potato. Only calorie in no out.

The truth behind this are the hormones insulin and glucagon. Sugar raises insulin. Insulin converts sugar into bodyfat. Protein stimulates glucagon. Glucagon burns fats. Fat is neutral. It doesn’t affect both of the hormones. That's why you can’t get fat by eating lots of fats/ oil. Our body can’t store excess dietary fats and protein. They will be excreted out.

Calorie counting is flawed. If you try this diet with an open mind you’ll know what I said. But you need lots of discipline and patience to do this. You can bulk without gaining fat at the same time. I mean muscle bulk not fat bulk as most people are doing it.



Good luck.

4rings: do u calculate how many grams of fat, protein and carbs u need to take in a day?

Crap, bucket of KFC

keto diet FTW!!!
ur right... im currently trying out this same diet... but im on a cyclic keto diet - hi fat hi protein for 5 days... and i will refeed or carb load for 30 hours on weekend. my first two weeks of the induction phase was shit tho. i love my sugar way too much. having to cut fruits and milk on a keto diet was the hardest thing of all for me... but i can have cheese and peanut butter so i cant complain. and theres the weekly carb up too. hehe.

if ur interested do google up Anabolic Diet by Dr. Mauro DiPasquale... or Dan Duchaine's BODYOPUS. i used to scoff and doubt these diets... but today im a convert. hee hee hee!

Yup, you need to calculate your protein and fat intake. Fat should be at least 50% of the protein in gram. For instance, if you are eating 150g of protein, your fat should be at least 75g. As for carbs, it depends on your goal. If you are on AD, carbs should be 30g. Fat intake should be about 2.5 times more than protein.
If you are on low carbs, you have to experiment it with your body. If you gain fats, that indicates you are eating too much carbs.
Low carbs doesn't mean you have to go on keto. You can eat more carbs but make sure your carbs comes from leafy vegetables. Limit your starch intake maybe to 2-3 times per week. You won't go wrong this way.

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Added on July 10, 2010, 6:36 amWelcome to Hi Fat!!! BTW, are LadyVanity of Terry's forum?

This post has been edited by 4Rings: Jul 10 2010, 06:36 AM

yup 4rings.... im the same LadyVanity. i hop around alot and lurk in many forums, and thought id stick around abit here cos ive heard lots about this place frm darklight. hehe

Nice to meet you here. I am the parrot-man.

OHHHH!!!!! hahahah!!! i love those photos!! Koko is so cute... and wow i had absolutely no idea that u used to compete.
hope to meet u one day... hehe

That was long time ago. I no longer have the physique like I used to have.
I am training parrot now. lol!

the parrot got six pack? jk btw

AD on parrot XD.

Lol why the hell is your nick parrot man??!!

He has a parrot perched on his shoulder!

I carry my parrot around.

This pic was taken yesterday at my mom in law's place in Muar.

gosh! that is a grey african parrot?
if not mistaken it is very expensive one rite?
hahaha... cool...
so wat did ur parrot pick to win in world cup?
spain or holland? haha

lol epic question

She didn't bother to answer me.

Koko not interested in World Cup.....
i bet Koko's more interested in pumping iron in the weight room!! hehehe

Yes, you are rite.


My parrot working out in a gym at Puchong.



Trying out the EZ Bar under the guidance of a PT.


Signing out after finishing workout.

Fine lookin bird by my book.

thx,
i got some nice answers to questions in my head...

i was afraid of eating too much too...
i was overweight at 90kg, and i lost abt 22kg in 5 mths and am now 68kg.

been working out for the past few mths, but i do not want to put on mass.
rather i would prefer to get a toned body with more muscle definition...

online info i seach recommend on more sets/reps, is that correct?

This post has been edited by ijnek: Jul 14 2010, 10:58 AM

u will definitely put on some mass, as muscle mass is heavier than fats.
so dont worry bout that. more importantly is ur bf%.
if its low, then u r looking good.
yes, more sets and reps try to stay 8-12.

thx for the advise...

Dear all,

I have my 2scoops of protein right before my workout and 2scoops right after my workout too. I am just wondering is this the right method or should I give it some time after my workout only to take them, and give some time allowance after my protein before my workout?

Besides my usual protein shake,I will try animal cuts sometime next week.Should I hit the cardio machine before my workout or after my workout? how much time do you all reckon I go for cardio to maximize the effects of animal cuts?

I have my pre-workout meal 0.5-1 hour before workout. Post-workout protein right after workout, and post-post-workout meal 1-2 hours after workout.

Bad. Half hour only to digest. Lol. 1 - 1.5 hours la boss.

This post has been edited by darklight79: Jul 22 2010, 01:14 PM

Thank you. This things I really need to take notes.

How about pre workout protein? can i take right before my workout? or i need to give it some time only i workout..

for whey, can take 30 minutes before workout, real meal 1.5 hour before workout.

cheers bro!