onelove, what's your internship backup plan, should you not succeed to get a place (even rural) upon graduation?

onelove, utas uses the old system of medical education (it's a very old med school), although they have recently revamp the syllabus.......there will therefore be significant didactic teaching, especially in the 1st 2 years........

many med schools try to bridge the dryness of the pre-clinical years by early clinical exposure, clinical correlation content, and some amount of intergrating and pbl learning....

newer med schools have gone completely integrated, and some have significant clinical correlation from year 1....although my personal opinion is, without the necessary basic knowledge, clinics often fails to be useful for most students....

cckkpr, which med school are you in?....

wow, tough one, =P probably sg if thats the case, not sure if i'm eligible for NZ places or not too. But generally a lot of the international students (that i know of) got offered a place in their 5th year. so which is good to hear.

well we're doing more and more clin stuff since year 2. don't think you can do much in year 1 since it's the basics? and things aren't really coming tgt at that stage for me. We do like case presentation in groups, which is really fun =)

I remembered my first PBL case back in msia was on malaria. (somehow =/) and we had to learn about quinines on the 1st day. I have absolutely no idea why and what was going on. so yes, I do agree with you that clinical part of things should come in a lil later, prob sem 2 of year 1 or in year 2 when they've done at least cardio/respi. it's a good thing too cos in year 1 you go "why the heck are we learning all these for?" and in year 2 you go "aahhh..... now things are coming together" =) tis a good feeling =P

You started med in malaysia, but doing 2 nd year utas now. How was the application process via this route? Glad to know you're enjoying the course!

um I just reapplied for med. I failed to get in the first time due to my ISAT results. So i retook the test and with satisfactory results I tried again. =)

what would be considered an isat 'satisfactory result' for utas?....80?

don't think there's a minimum mark for it, but I'll think it's around there =)

I am not in med school but a significantly interested party! That's why my keen interest in medic education and development.

Ah, we're not very different, I have been coerced to be a vested party!

Cheers!

http://www.economist.com/node/21528596

"Those who want to go abroad often have higher material standards of living than their peers in the West. They are looking for things they cannot buy: recognition of achievements, protection of property rights, physical safety, a functioning health service, a proper education for their children. They want to live a life which does not involve paying bribes, or losing one’s business for political reasons, or being jailed at the whim of a corrupt bureaucrat."

this article is about the malaise and corruption in russian society that permeates into all spheres, including education and healthcare.....and how a third of russians are thinking about migrating out....

yet 1000 msian students go to study medicine there every year, a country with known problematic education and healthcare systems......and many thinks they are receiving high standard training....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Sep 24 2011, 01:12 PM

It would be interesting to know the real position of MMC and MMA about russian medical courses. Calls into question their credibility, somewhat.

mma is a social grouping, and have no powers......but have many times voiced their concerns about the standards from some countries, and the over-production of doctors....

the mmc is basically controlled and dictated by politics.....the majority of members are nominated, not elected....

there is strong political support from some segments of society for continued easy and cheap access to medical training......these segments are generally not concerned about standards, to them it's either a business, or opportunity for their own families.....

if you look at countries with high standards of healthcare and medical education, it's the profession who controls this.....not politicians.....the doctors are themselves the creme de la creme, and they want those who joins their ranks to be from the same mould....their youths are generally also interested in becoming doctors, but the system in place prevents all but the best from entering.....

msian education is based on mediocrity and the lowest common denominator.....and thus many people in the profession are themselves mediocre to begin.....and they actually feel threaten if the younger ones are too good!......so there is no incentive to demand higher quality students and med schools.....and the system thus allows anyone with money to become doctors.....

the mmc did de-recognise one ukraine school 5 years ago.....and the political storm that created was enormous....i doublt if there will be a repeat...

they also have tried some damage control measures, the most recent being the minimum grades students must have to enter med school.....the effect of that rule is like saying you must have at least 3 limbs and 1 eye to drive......

addendum: the above comments are general in nature, about the direction and quality of medical training for doctors that will work in msia....it equally applies to ipta, ipts, as much as russia, egypt, indonesia etc....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Sep 24 2011, 10:20 PM

limeuu, are you still with the service, or have moved on to the private sector? How much contact do you have with new grads? From your experience, are there very noticeble differences between local ipta, ipts and russian grads? I think some opinions are too biased and generalised, and may not be fair to those from russia, as at some point, it greatly boils down to the individual as well. Thanks.

see my addendum above....

in any case, the training of doctors CANNOT be based on the lowest common denominator of 'it greatly boils down to the individual as well'......

ie, let's let all and sundry be doctors.....it's okay.....after all, hopefully, some of them will be good students, and will become good competent doctors.....

it should be such that the system must insist and ensure ALL graduates are competent, safe, knowledgeable, skilled.....

however, don't confuse between the 'good' doctor and the competent one....

The only reason this year's graduating batch got offers was because many of their local/interstate students got to go to Victoria and such which is more disirable (you should know who got the prestiguous RMH) and a few other tutors who got rural Vic. I haven't heard anyone that got SA or WA though.

Also to add about IMU's two hour-lecture system. I reckon it gives a lot of free time to "self-study". Reading through a couple of questions from IMU, it places an emphasis on rote learning which I think is a bad call where exams are about memorizing; students back home are not encouraged to challange the views of lecturers, lacking a discussion where both parties might gain some. It is more of a "you give; I receive" method. I would say not all lecturers does that though, some are rather interative and fun.

This post has been edited by D_s_X: Sep 24 2011, 09:41 PM

i presume you are also in utas.....

utas trains more doctors than is needed within tasmania, and graduates from utas have always been seeking employment in mostly vic, sometimes further afield as well.....

just as many from vic who could not enter melb or monash will accepts offers in utas....

this situation exists long before the issue about housemanship places arise.......

so easy to enter. i know this fella. UKR grad. UD41 in Kedah now, failed SPM bio...enough said...

Yup. And with the statewide budget cuts (which includes healthcare?!?!?!?!) It's a pain. Hope by the time I graduate, things would turn out better.

i think you will be onelove's batchmate then.....

i am quite sure the houseman job situation will be sorted out....at worst, just apply for regional hospitals.....even monash msia grads are getting offers in regional vic......

how many international students do utas take a year? what's their total intake nowadays?