all information asked is in the public domain, but as usual, people are too incompetent/lazy to find it....

it appears a grades academically nowadays doesn't say much......

there are alternate pathways for registration with smc......

since people expect to be spoon fed.....nah:

http://www.smc.gov.sg/html/1153709452985.html

normally its 2 years of preclin and 3 years of clin years in msia. My uni kinda overlaps both in the 3rd year as we're having CNS lectures as well as starting our clin rounds. Well, with many new med schools sprouting out like weeds, it's normal for them to lower their entry requirements to attract more students. Med education has turned into some sort of business in malaysia. that's how I see it. There are definitely exceptions to that.

Leave those people to crash and burn on their own =) basically from first year we're taught to do reflections. I think that really helps in character building. (and also looooooooooots of lectures on ethics and professionalism, public health etc etc) Then again, you'll still see some arrogant bunch lurking around till you graduate.

Woa..
2 years of pre-clinical studies and 3 years of clinical.
In the UK, regardless of the rigor or depth of your pre-u curriculum, there's an unskippable 3 years of pre-clinical. So, any 'undeserved' top scholars, such as in a shallow pre-u curriculum, or inflation of grades, or even a lower-stage examination, will have another chance to study the pre-med which is the foundation to medicine. Therefore, I believe, that the rest of the pre-clinical will be studied thoroughly much easily, rather than the pure memorization that's often cried by med students around.

In the US, medicine is a postgraduate studies, with a preference to related undergraduate or unrelated undergraduate with complete pre-med requisites. So, the foundation is already set. However, even fast-track programmes last for 7 years, exclusive of housemanship. Advanced Standing is usually not granted for medicine, regardless of credits earned.

And Malaysia? That reply came as a shock, even more when the word 'normally' is in place.

Its usually those who are younger than their classmates who feel they are smarter than the rest.

Talking about arrogance
I met a few Malaysian local graduate(UM,UKM) that are very hard to interact with,yes I am talking about those that migrated to Singapore to work.
These people don't have a high regard towards people from other institution.
my 2 cents

there is no such thing as 'pre-med' in uk.....except for some small intakes in some med schools as part of affirmative action programmes for disadvantaged segments of the british population or excellent students without the chemistry pre-requisite.....it is not open for foreigners....

pre-clinicals are normally 2 years......a few programmes are 3 years......

pre-clinical programmes with an intercalated degree may be 2 1/2 to 4 years..........and you get a 1st degree (usually B Med Sc) at the end....

the clinical programme (after pre-clinical, with or without an intercalated programme) is 3 years equivalent (generally 90-100 weeks).......but some covers the 3 years equivalent in 2 or 2 1/2 years.....of course at the expense of much shorter holidays.....

edited for clarity.......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 30 2011, 04:02 PM

how do local grads perform in comparison to UK/Oz?
ive heard stories bout russian grads but there have been no significant complaints bout local grads, so local grads cant be that bad right?

This post has been edited by arsenwagon: Aug 30 2011, 12:58 PM

You got it wrong.
The 'pre-med' in my UK context is spelt without the '', which meant biology or chemistry studies before medicine. I'm utilizing pre and medicine, not the official pre-med requisite selection.
And intercalated degree in your explanation is wrong. Intercalation meant two very related degrees taken in between certain periods, usually a year, which meant extra time, not shorter. Getting a BSc extra to medicine degree require an extra year. An intercalated degree with Phd, say, takes extra years in between clinical years to obtain it. So, intercalation takes more time, not less, and even its vocabulary definition also meant so.

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Added on August 30, 2011, 3:30 pmHowever, sorry about the number of years of pre-clinical studies. It's 2. I suspect I got confused with my own extended plan.

This post has been edited by reconnaissance: Aug 30 2011, 03:30 PM

you are one very confused person.....doing chemistry and biology before medicine is NOT 'pre-med' or pre-med.........

and you have completely misunderstood what i wrote.....go read it carefully again.......

an intercalated degree is something done between the pre-clinical and the clinical years, and awards with an extra degree.....that extends the pre-clinical years by between 0-1 year, before the student rejoins the clinical studies.....it does NOT necessarily add any extra time to the studies.....do you own research as to which british intercalated programmes require more time, and which does not.......

Maybe because many new IPTS haven't graduated yet and most only met a few to properly assess their abilities. But I did talk to on doctor in hospital last year and he mentioned that PMC student are well-trained. He didn't talk much but I guess many older ones like IMU/PMC have make good impression to their coworker.

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Added on August 30, 2011, 4:20 pmAttitude can't be change even if you go to Cambridge or other top tier university. But maybe its because some top-student rarely socialize that when they started working its easy to forget how normal courtesy can make a huge difference. For me, working part-time teach me a lot on communication

This post has been edited by fastimes: Aug 30 2011, 04:20 PM

the quality of a med student, and the quality of any new medical programme should NOT be even a question mark at all, in a well managed health care system......

nobody questions the quality of brighton-sussex, east anglia, cardiff, warick etc in uk......and nobody questions the quality of jcu, wollongong or uws in oz....

the fact that there is so much debate and concerns about msian's many new med schools speaks volume about how this issue has been handled by the msian authorities.....

Pre-med is any studies before medicine. Only in US, pre-med is courses, or requisite. The pre-med I'm refering to is not that one, it's the 'pre-independence''s 'pre-marital''s 'pre-school''s pre, then medicine. The any studies before medicine. I did mention this.
And intercalation does equal to an extension of the total study time. I'm confused about the pre-clinical period in the first place is because I've counted in the intercalation of BSc, hence extending by an extra year. Intercalation of degrees mean taking degrees of different faculty, such as BSc, or of different level, such as PhD of medicine, in between a year of study, either in the pre-clinical or clinical stage.
I'm very very thorough in my research, so I'm not possibly wrong in this, at least not this time.

Thanks again limeuu. Quite an interesting piece of information But from reading the rules, I guess they bypass it using the second rule which easy to get in as long as Singapore hospital want you Still think that they should recognized some IPTS in the country as they already accepted some into their system.

Agreed, but as I already said, they is many who say 'low quality this, low quality that' but at the end the is just another general statement. Someone have to show a concrete evidence so that the local IPTS are more wary of their curriculum.

I for one wanted to know as so I am able to improve myself when I'm graduated. This to prevent some patient who after see my cert and say 'This guy is product of an incompetence local IPTS that are less capable than the doctors that are graduated from UK/Oz etc..'.

I am a bit confused. Based on your explanation, A levels would also be considered "pre-med" then, as some do go on to do Medicine in Uni, although A levels are generally considered "pre-uni".

For non-US curriculum, A Levels would be it. Since it's pre-university, and the very first degree you pursue is medicine, of course its pre-med. That's the prep for your medical course.
However, this applies only in my context, my words. Its using English, not the name of the course. The 'pre-' means before, so when it's attached with med, it meant before medical studies.
Swt.. You think one thing cannot fall into two categories? It's like saying, I thought a sport car is in automotive, not vehicles. It's actually both.

I think that's a slightly wrong term to use....unless when you do your A-levels which grants you direct entry into a medical course I certainly would not call it pre-med on this basis...quite misleading some how..

"Hey what are you studying?"

"Oh..i am doing my pre-med.."

"Oh...where are you taking the course"

"XXX uni."

"Oh wow they offer a pre med course? How much does it cost? What are the course structure like."

"It's A-levels basically."

Well, if we are talking on the context of proper English, then yes, your sentence structure and the 'pre-med' term is perfectly correct. However in day to day conversations, you simply can't use the term pre-med like this.

don't be......he is wrong.....

pre-med means a specific foundation programme (studying subjects like chemistry and biology, of course!) specifically meant to enable a person to enter the 1st year of a medical programme.....and generally infer a guaranteed entry once meeting prescribed minimum results.....

don't confuse this with generic foundations like mufy.....

proper pre-u are generic programmes like a-levels, stpm, oz year 12, nz ncea level 3 etc.....while you still study the same subjects as pre-med, your qualification will enable you to study a wide variety of courses, and does NOT guarantee entry into medicine.....

under current practices in uk/oz, the pre-u itself is NOT adequate by itself to enable entry, as further filters are imposed, ie, the entrance exams (ukcat/bmed/isat/umat/pqa etc) and the interview....

don't bring the american system into this....they are completely different....

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Added on August 30, 2011, 7:04 pmyou can't go invent your own words and you own definition like that......!

particularly, if you want to study medicine....everything, every word, every term, all have very clear specific, definition......so everybody is talking the same language, and on the same wave length.........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 30 2011, 07:04 PM

Hello buddy, you're threading on a thin line here.A bit more than that I would labelled you as arrogant.
Have a care in the word you dispense to the public.
You are about to become the judge of medicine.My advice for you is to chill

Swt.. No point going to fight anymore on this.
Btw, there's never a 'pre-med' course, with an exception of some in the US. Pre-med is just a set of requisites to be accomplished by a student for entry.
I guess only particular people would understand this.
"I'm doing A-Level as pre-med."
"Oh.. Okay. Biology and Chemistry, right?"

But oh well, some would readily debate for the sake of winning an arguement that the true purpose of the debate is lost in between. From an explanation of pre-clinical studies, which I had agreed to be wrong, to intercalation, to the word of pre-med, all of which are unable to end, as long as there's a person who don't understand, who held influence.
You're a great guy, limeuu, from the very first post from you that I've read. Both of us is actually right, just different words, and sources.

point out where i am wrong.....

otherwise, why am i arrogant, if what i say is correct?.....

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Added on August 30, 2011, 9:55 pmthere are several 'pre-med' couses in msia, and overseas targeted at msians..... mostly feeding into eastern european or indonesian med schools......

some examples:

http://www.cyberlynx.edu.my/college_under_premed.html

http://russian-resources.com/courses/pre-u...sity-courseseng

http://www.klcplacement.com.my/index.php?o...=110&Itemid=178

it pays to do some research before making sweeping statements......especially on things you are unsure about......

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 30 2011, 09:55 PM