Trust me, if you can't write properly in a forum, you can't write properly when it matters the most. I've seen many a fresh graduate who say "I know I "simply anyhow" write on the internet, but when working I write properly one", until I read their reports which are littered with grammatical mistakes with the odd SMS language. The sad thing is they don't even realise their errors.

Any we wonder why we have unemployed graduates.

In any case, if you want to receive help, you need to be understandable to the other party who you ask for the assistance. I've seen too many people barge in, ask for help, but are unable to articulate their issues, then wonder why they're met with silence.

Its very hard to help someone when you don't understand them.

I need an advice/opinion here: If one is given chance to choose between taking MBBS in CUCMS or Taylor's which institute should he/she choose? (pro and cons would help). Thanks

CUCMS is dominated by one ethnic group in both students enrolment and lecturers and the recent issue of students quota are factors to consider while Taylors is still new.

I concur But in my defence, I would say that my inability to write properly in forum or any other message board is that I feel that if I took more than 1 minute trying to compose one question, I'm waste my time. But I'll take the advice to write better and more comprehensible in the future

So to repeat my question, what is the difference of the clinical years being done in UM,UKM or UK grad that make IPTS student can't be recognized by most countries especially by Singapore's SMC? One thing I notice is that SMC recognized China's university but not Russian. Somehow I feel that while SMC is highly regarded, it is also susceptible to political development hence being inconsistent in its accreditation criteria.

---

Added on August 29, 2011, 5:19 pmAgreed as I heard that Taylor and CUCMS is being reserved for MARA student to save the higher oversea fees. You have better luck at MAHSA or AIMST.

This post has been edited by fastimes: Aug 29 2011, 05:19 PM

the sentence is still completely structurally wrong........even with renewed effort....and certainly not ielts band 8 standard.....

recognition of med schools is a completely political decision.....but some more political than others......nobody can beat msia's.....

smc are not fools......you may want to look at the admission policy of the med schools before making accusations.....if i were to make decisions about recognitions, i would put that top in requirements.....over syllabus and quality of teachers and teaching hospitals........

i am referring to already recognised med schools with additional programmes based partly or wholly outside the home country......bottom line: clinical years must be in the home country.......

Maybe we can blame it a little on the education system, where there is zero emphasis on English? I was from a chinese independent school, and if one wasn't careful, there was this tendency to think that Mandarin is the only language in the entire universe. I suppose that would be thought the same of BM in national schools.

Just my opinion!

@fastimes, SMC does not recognise all medical degrees from China, as fas as I know. Singapore regards itself as the premier medical service provider in this region, as the contribution to its economy is very significant in terms of " medical tourism". Whether or not political influence comes into the equation, it's already the standard guideline for malaysians pursuing medicine, that their degrees will be recognised by SMC. After all, if it's recognised by SMC, it will definitely be recognised by MMC. Please correct me if i am mistaken.

This post has been edited by windz93a: Aug 29 2011, 06:48 PM

smc recognises 5 china qualifications.....3 from mainland china, and 2 from hongkong.....

smc also recognises some qualifications that msia does NOT recognise.......perfect example would be the only country in the world msians cannot visit....

like i said, a lot of it is politics.....but pragmatism does have a part......

Anyway, since you people are so keen on Singapore, I thought I'd share some information regarding post-graduate options in Singapore. I recently attended a recruitment event organised by the MOHHoldings Singapore (I think they ran it in every capital city in Australia; and they'll be doing the same thing in the UK next month).

Health care in Singapore has undergone a major restructuring programme - basically public health care is now split among 5 health clusters, namely the National Healthcare Group (NHG), the National University Health System (NUHS), Singhealth and 2 other hospitals (Khoo Teck Puat and Jurong) - residency training will only be provided in the former three but more on that later.

The traditional system in Singapore goes something like this:

For specialists: medical graduate - house officer - medical officer - medical officer (basic specialist trainee) - registrar (advanced specialist trainee) - associate consultant- consultant - senior consultant (the whole process takes up more or less 8 to 10 years depending on the specialty choice)

And then of course you have the family physician/GP track which is considerably shorter in addition to a clinical research track.

Such a long training period would invariably mean a shorter career for full-fledged physicians, hence Singapore's decision to introduce the residency programme which is modeled after its namesake in the US. The new system will be implemented under the guidance from the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) - now before you start salivating about the prospects of working in America after your stint in Singapore, the residency programme will NOT qualify you as a physician in America nor does the Singapore government want you to leave its system - "we don't need a brain drain in Singapore" as the recruiter puts it nicely. You will only be able to work in Singapore, and that is despite taking the same board exams that US residents take - a board-certificed physician who cannot work in the US.

The biggest advantage of this residency system is the ability to enter the programme straight out of medical school - straight into R1. Now, say if your first attempt at matching is unsuccessful, you can still be a house officer (PGY1) and then apply the following year as a PGY2 - of course your chances will naturally increase as you get better at what you're doing and you know more people in the system.

There's a lot more detail behind the whole application process - apparently they have to accommodate graduates from three different time frames (Yong Loo Lin, UK and Aus)

Oh and not forgetting remuneration ; while not as good as Australia, it is still much better than what you get in Malaysia. (Btw, the pay is dependent on your seniority, it doesn't mean that a PGY1 resident will earn more than a PGY1 houseman, so you won't actually see much earning potential until at least you're through with your residency)

House officers get a base salary of 3.000 SGD per month, locals get CPF while foreigners (mostly Malaysians anyway) get an additional 850 SGD housing allowance. House officers are expected to work 60-65 hours per week (surgical residents 80 hours +) and you'll probably get six or seven night calls per month (110 SGD per call). And of course you have bonuses, either group or personal and not forgetting ...................lunch money !!!!!!! (8 SGD weekdays, 12 SGD weekends)

PGY2s get a slight bump in their salary package, basic pay is around 4,000 SGD and you get 220 SGD per call.

Well, that's basically how the new system looks like in Singapore, it's definitely attracting attention among international students in Australia (Singapore may soon end its reliance on Malaysian graduates as it's looking to woo its own students back) Malaysia on the other hand..........

Limeuu, i know of a few friends in oz that are currently still jobless, especially those from NSW and Victoria.

Regarding the UK FY1 position, (well this is from rumours), apparently there were some locals who did not get a job last year - which is a new thing in the UK. It'd be interesting to see how things turn out next year - especially when they still cannot control the number of influx of doctors from the neighbouring EU countries.

This post has been edited by tqeh: Aug 29 2011, 07:47 PM

the people i know currently in final year have all got their housemanship placements........i think it is more of a problem in some states, particularly nsw and vic......

i am not aware of any graduate who did no get fy1.....unless he/she wants to take a year off.......the necessity of fy1 is by law, for full registration, like msia and most other countries, so the gov has to provide this job......therefore it is unlikely any graduate who applies for fy1 will not get it........

Foreigners get 850per month but singaporeans who agree to go home will get $30,000 payable in 3 years, and if they sign the contract in their 4th/5th year (not final year) they get $60,000 lol.

The average bonus per year for a doctor in singapore is 3 months (1 month from government, 1 month from group, and 1 month for individual - haha but individual is highly variable!)

Sg is certainly a good choice especially your long term goal is to return nearer to home to practice as a consultant.

Let's just hope all graduates find jobs in the respective countries in which they underwent clinical training. Sometimes it becomes obvious that there is some kind of "one upmanship" situation going on in this thread, when it comes to the pros and cons of studying locally or abroad (particularly uk and oz). Just an observation folks!

yeap, although limeuu's views might be harsh or bashing in nature, but i like it.
really, truth hurts.

alright, thank you for your views. but lets just say, among bad apples, there the good ones

I believe what you're referring to is the pre-employment grant, which is 60% of your final two years in medical school up to a cap of SGD $80,000 in exchange for a 4 year bond - but if you're going to work for the Singapore government anyway, there's no reason not to take it. Of course, your grades DO matter when applying for this grant and not every applicant will be successful.

I'm curious to see whether TalentCorp can ever come up with something like this for Malaysian expatriates overseas.....

---

Added on August 29, 2011, 8:19 pmYeah NSW is definitely one of the worst hit by the tsunami, followed by Victoria and Queensland (UQ is probably the biggest culprit here, having a class size that is near 500 with over a hundred international students). SA is probably the safest choice right now, but who knows things might change in 5 or 6 years time as University of South Australia is busy lobbying for its own medical school...

This post has been edited by Huskies: Aug 29 2011, 08:23 PM

thanks for the clarification.....it helps answer some of the questions i have about their new residency programme.....

there are downsides on this american style residency training, but i suppose it may work in the singapore context....

btw, 2 of the 3 new clusters are alexandra health (which paradoxically, do NOT now include alexandra hospital but has jurong medical centre) and jurong health, which will include the redeveloped alexandra hospital, and a new 700 bed jurong ng teng fong general hospital......these 2 new groups will likely form the core of the new ntu/imperial medical school......

the brand new ktp hospital (core hospital of alexandra health) is busting at the seams 1 year after opening.....this is exciting times for singapore healthcare, and i foresee they will need substantial number of new doctors, as the current production of 300/year (yes, compared to 5000 in msia) is just too little, and the ntu/imperial school will not see any graduation till at least 2018.......i estimate they will be absorbing 300-400 new doctors from outside spore (both sporeans and foreigners) over the next 6 to 8 years..........the bulk will come from um/ukm/oz/uk.........

---

Added on August 29, 2011, 8:39 pmthat is actually a very bad situation to be in.....

it should be, there is a bad apple in every barrel........and there are.....in every med school, in every country.....

unfortunately, it's the other way around in msia......we hope for some good apples in our barrels of bad apples.....

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 29 2011, 08:39 PM

"...........the bulk will come from um/ukm/oz/uk..........." Poor Malaysia The reason Malaysian medical graduates assimilate so well into the Singaporean system is partly down to the fact that they're normally good at more than one language - Mandarin Chinese comes into mind, along with the various dialects such as Hokkien, Cantonese and Tamil for the Indian students. Singapore gets the wheat while Malaysia gets the chaff...

---

Added on August 29, 2011, 9:11 pmISAT results should have been released for those planning to enter next year, plus I presume interviews (live/telephone) are ongoing for successful candidates; so you should more or less know where you stand right now - an ISAT of 75th percentile or above and an ATAR equivalent of 98 should almost guarantee your progression to medical school, unless of course you perform very poorly in your interview.

Anyway, which schools are you aiming for in Australia? - there are only a few unis left with undergraduate entry: Adelaide, Monash, UNSW, UTAS (recognised in Singapore) James Cook and Western Sydney.

This post has been edited by Huskies: Aug 29 2011, 09:11 PM

the msian gov have made it quite clear they are happy if the wheat who are unhappy leaves.....

kalau tak suka, keluar lah....

the reason msian graduates merge easily into spore is, well.......we were basically the same people/culture, even same country at one time......

---

Added on August 29, 2011, 9:19 pmnewcastle........

uq has a 'double degree' undergraduate entry stream.........

This post has been edited by limeuu: Aug 29 2011, 09:19 PM

At the moment, am in the running. There's still final exams and interviews at year end. Let's hope I don't end up in the "also-ran" group. And I should stop checking in here so often, but I have to admit I've gained quite a bit of information from all the seniors. For this, thank you all! I think LIMEUU deserves a special mention.

Huskies, are you in australia too? When do you graduate (assuming you are still in uni)?

Thanks for sharing. Anw, the 3 clusters are
1) NUHS- NUH, Ng Teng Fong Hospital (not yet ready, currently in Alexandra hospital)
2) NHG- Tan Tock Seng, Khoo Teck Puat- traning hospitals for Imperial-NTU
3) SingHealth- SGH, Changi- traning hospitals for Duke NUS

the larger hospitals ie NUH, Tan Tock Seng and SGH will be the main sites for residency.

At the moment now, residents still have to sit for UK fellowship exams to qualify as specialists. American board exams might replace fellowship exams in the future, but not now.

This post has been edited by wgy589: Aug 29 2011, 10:09 PM

I'm guess you are also clueless on why the last 2 year make such a big differrence?

Thanks a lot on the info. No wonder many fled to Singapore and never came back. Malaysia should have some sort of contract with its scholars or Malaysia will continue to suffer.

EDIT: No longer annoyed. My friend used to say that if you're annoyed just imagined the person 'not getting it' from his wife or gf the previous night

This post has been edited by fastimes: Aug 29 2011, 10:29 PM