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 The Zest @ Kinrara 9 v2, Owners share your views,public r welcome

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chuah xui cheng
post Sep 21 2009, 11:49 AM

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QUOTE(stretch @ Sep 21 2009, 08:19 AM)
sounds really personal.. must be one of the unlucky heron buyers. at least we can see how tt handles stuff like this.. see what we can expect from them if things like this happens.
and thanks alan soo for the explanation. ignorance is a bliss in deed.huhu
*
Hi,
Just a lesson to be learnt, Dun think we are all correct as if we know everything, something we have yet to see dosent mean it doesnt exsit..

Thanks
propcritic
post Sep 21 2009, 01:15 PM

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Popping floors make condo owners hopping mad

For Priya Satiaceelan and Chan Kok Hong, owning their respective service apartments in Puchong's prestigious The Heron Residency was a dream come true.

But their dream turned into a nightmare when tiles literally popped out of the flooring turning the once smoothly polished surfaces into a collection of jagged cracks and uneven see-saws barely 18 months after building was completed.

Priya 28 (right), said that she received a call from her tenants on the morning of Aug 29 telling her that the floor of her unit was "popping up like a volcano."

When she arrived to inspect her unit, she found the whole house "was vibrating and moving."

Priya and Chan both own apartments in Block A at The Heron Residency.

The apartment complex was named after the Heron, a bird that in Malay is called 'Puchong'...a pun on the prestigious project's location.

Worried that the entire structure might collapse, she immediately filed a police report at the Bandar Bukit Puchong Police Station.

The police later referred her to the Housing and Local Government Ministry and the Subang Jaya Municipal Council (known by its Malay acronym of MPSJ)

For Chan, a restful evening at home watching television with his family turned scary when according to him, his floor tiles suddenly "popped up and cracked."

"Suddenly crack! The whole dining area tiles popped up," he said.

The incident which happened on the night of Sep 14, left a long jagged gash o hins apartment's floor.

Incident not isolated

According to Chan and Priya, they were not the only ones experiencing problems.

At least seven more apartment owners reported the same problems but according to them, theirs were by far worse.

They also reported cracks on the apartment floor as well as along the floor of the covered car park at Block A.

A site visit by Malaysiakini found long stretches of tar and plaster along the cracks, which appears to be an attempt to fix the damage.

The Trinity Group, which owns the apartment's developer Darul Dinasti and operates The Heron Residency, says its website that it prides itself in " the ability to take on large scale projects, to develop the projects at a fast pace and to create value."

A claim that may be disputed by residents of The Heron.

'An uncooperative management'

When asked about the management's reaction to their complaints Priya said that they "were of no help at all."

Priya went on to describe her fruitless crusade for help and support from building developer Darul Dinasti, it's architect Visage Architect and The Heron Residency's management.

"Nobody wants to take responsibility, not the architect, not the management, not the developer," said the frustrated home owner.

Priya claimed that she has been informed by the management that there is nothing that they can do to assist her as the default liability period was over.

According to her Sales and Purchase Agreement (S&P) with the developer, Priya was given 12 months from the handover date of Feb 2008 to report any defect at her apartment.

But the defects appeared eighteen months later.

However Priya said "I strongly feel that it should be fixed by the management or the architects as its outrageous for such an incident to happen to a new building unless it was due to poor architecture."

Both home owners said that they were only hoping for someone to take responsibility and help them. Coming to the press was a last resort.

Priya and Chan are not alone with problems with The Heron Residency's management.


Real estate online forums showed that other residents at The Heron have been complaining about similar problems.

'Fault lies in workmanship'

Priya further said that a representative from MPSJ which inspected her unit, said that the fault lies in the poor workmanship.

A private contractor, whom she has engaged to look at the damage to her apartment, agreed explaining that "the cement was not enough."

Gaps resulting from unevenly applied cement to the tiles to stick them to the floor seem to be the reason for the 'popping up'.

The MPSJ representative who inspected Priya's apartment has promised to issue her a letter confirming that poor workmanship.

Meanwhile Chan added, "We hope the developers can help to fix this, as soon as possible."

Management urge patience

When met at his office, property maintenance manager Clarence James, who claims to be a long time veteran in building management, admitted that there is a problem with floor tiles popping up, which he termed 'uplifting'.

He said that the problem is caused by "pressure and movements" in the building.

But he was quick to deny that it was "structural".

Instead he explained that buildings needs to be ventilated and aired out too.

He said that if closed up, the fittings in the apartment may 'move' because of compression.

Defect liability period extended

James also agreed that this may also be caused by the expansion and contraction of concrete and tiles because of temperature differences between night and day and weather effects.

When asked about reports that not enough cement were used in the installation of the tiles, he said that he will have to refer the mater to the relevant consultants and experts.

James (right) assured the affected residents that action will be taken to rectify the situation, despite the fact that the 12 month liability defect period as stipulated in their S&P agreements had expired.

He said, "we are giving them a eighteen months coverage. So anything within eighteen months will be covered."

The property maintenance manager urged all affected residents to be patient because the issue requires the intervention of consultants and experts which will take some time to arrange.

"Actually we are looking into it, but we are waiting for the architects and consultants. We are coming up with a quick solution" he said.

"Once there is an outcome we will call them and inform them the course of action," he added claiming that they have informed the resident affected of the delay in repair works and will get back to them soon.

http://malaysiakini.com/news/113181
TSeugene jk
post Sep 21 2009, 02:18 PM

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QUOTE(Pai @ Sep 21 2009, 03:46 AM)
Well, I never saw ppl complaint about the tiles etc until I saw the video yesterday, hence my previous comments. the complaints I read on Heron was on tenancy and management issues, so I stand corrected.

Eugene, besides the video that was posted yesteday, have u read anywhere that mentioned about the cracks and tiles issues? Can point out the link if u come accross it?

Ignorance is a bliss........  tongue.gif


Added on September 21, 2009, 3:47 am

Yes, apparently they have at least 7 more. 

*pray hard they learnt their mistakes from HERON and improvise Zest accordingly*  tongue.gif
*
Wah Pai.. u burn until my backside pun tongue.gif

ok.. I was follow heron's forum closely since the beginning and yes, most of the complain is about poor management and workmanship.. This tile crack issue is kinna new to me and I only got to know when other forumers post them up... No offence, this issue is new to me as well... brows.gif

Cannot Tahan
post Sep 21 2009, 02:58 PM

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QUOTE(Alan Soo @ Sep 21 2009, 12:50 AM)
popping floor doesnt mean the contractor use the lousy material, it is becos when the time contractor apply cement grout to floor tile there is some air inside the cement grout, after lay the floor tile, the air seal inside the floor. when the air heat up and expand, the floor tile will pop out. this kind of issue actually quite common to contractor,  but no one hope it happen. but important things is the developer need to repair for house owner. hopefully that victim slove the problem already.


Added on September 21, 2009, 1:02 am

if the owner win the suit, TT redo the floor tile, it will only cost TT few thousand only, to them is a peanut.
*
My dear friend,

Your knowledge on structure sounds sufficient but not abundant.
On the other hand, your legal knowledge (on the consequental damages) is seriously lacking of fundamental.

Please read the above in a friendly mode.


Added on September 21, 2009, 3:03 pm
QUOTE(KeNNy @ Sep 21 2009, 01:59 AM)
Hi Cannot tahan, thanks for the pointers. What if this goes under structural? If I remembered correctly, civil engineers are expected to design structures that lasts a lifetime.
Does TT has future projects as well? As long as they have other future interests at stake, they won't dare to screw up (too badly).
*
Just a general view (to avoid defamation suit)

The principle defendant will be the Dev, whereas the contributer like Arc and Eng may be held as Co-Defendant.

Depending on the Court's finding, a wrongdoer/tortfeasor may be liable to 1. General Damage; 2. Specific Damage; 3.Punitive Damage; 4. Consequential damage.... as far as it is not remote.

hmm.gif

This post has been edited by Cannot Tahan: Sep 21 2009, 03:03 PM
fuyoh99
post Sep 21 2009, 03:22 PM

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thank propcritic for the useful article.

Personally advice, we should take extra pre-caution on the Heron case.
We should put pressure on developer for good workmanship and build up quality.
If not mistaken pilling is almost completed by Sunway Construction and is good that developer have site inspect by professional bodies to make sure quality as promised to the buyer. And only hand over to sub-structure constructor to proceed.

As a buyer really piss off to heard that “the defect period is over /or/ please report to management for further action” as mention by in youtube posted in previous posting.
HEI MAN.... FLOOR IS CRACKING. This is the high rise building not single story.
We dun want to sleep at 8 floor and wake up at 7 floor or even worst.

Hope we have a good quality sweet home

PREVENTION IS THE BEST CURE

Alan Soo
post Sep 21 2009, 04:22 PM

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QUOTE(Cannot Tahan @ Sep 21 2009, 02:58 PM)
My dear friend,

Your knowledge on structure sounds sufficient but not abundant.
On the other hand, your legal knowledge (on the consequental damages) is seriously lacking of fundamental.

Please read the above in a friendly mode.


Added on September 21, 2009, 3:03 pm

Just a general view (to avoid defamation suit)

The principle defendant will be the Dev, whereas the contributer like Arc and Eng may be held as Co-Defendant.

Depending on the Court's finding, a wrongdoer/tortfeasor may be liable to 1. General Damage; 2. Specific Damage; 3.Punitive Damage; 4. Consequential damage.... as far as it is not remote.

hmm.gif
*

i just point out one of the common reason of popping floor, hope u wont toh i was trying to cover the developer.
at my previous working place, and one of my fren's house. their floor tile also pop out, but due to the buidling already more than 10 years, that's y my fren and my ex- boss didnt complaint to management. my ex company is a class A contractor listed in KLSE, i ask my enginner collegue the reason of poping floor tiles b4. thats y i share my experience.

i better keep silent regarding the legal suit, cos i really lack of ledge knowledge, hope u wont mind the opinion i give b4.

propcritic
post Sep 21 2009, 04:43 PM

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QUOTE(fuyoh99 @ Sep 21 2009, 03:22 PM)
thank propcritic for the useful article.

Personally advice, we should take extra pre-caution on the Heron case.
We should put pressure on developer for good workmanship and build up quality.
If not mistaken pilling is almost completed by Sunway Construction and is good that developer have site inspect by professional bodies to make sure quality as promised to the buyer. And only hand over to sub-structure constructor to proceed.

As a buyer really piss off to heard that “the defect period is over /or/ please report to management for further action” as mention by in youtube posted in previous posting.
HEI MAN.... FLOOR IS CRACKING. This is the high rise building not single story.
We dun want to sleep at 8 floor and wake up at 7 floor or even worst. 

Hope we have a good quality sweet home

PREVENTION IS THE BEST CURE
*
I think the owners of the Zest here in LYN, numbering no less than 100, should get organised and demand formally for an answer from the developer, regarding what actually happened in the Heron and what actions will be taken by them. It is a legitimate concern especially if it involves structural damage, even if it involves bad workmanship, the developer should give the owners some concrete assurance that it will not happen again at the Zest...

winner
post Sep 21 2009, 05:23 PM

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QUOTE(propcritic @ Sep 21 2009, 04:43 PM)
It is a legitimate concern especially if it involves structural damage, even if it involves bad workmanship, the developer should give the owners some concrete assurance that it will not happen again at the Zest...
*
No developers will give ASSURANCE or guarantee on workmanship. It is a FACT that some developers select their consultants and contractors based on price, ignoring the accountability aspect.

A good developer will look into after-sales service, and ensure prompt rectification on its own cost although the defect liability period is over. Reputation is very important for long term business. If the developer refuses to do so, you know the irresponsible developer tries to "wash hand" and "hit and run" in whatever projects involved.
propcritic
post Sep 21 2009, 06:08 PM

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QUOTE(winner @ Sep 21 2009, 05:23 PM)
No developers will give ASSURANCE or guarantee on workmanship. It is a FACT that some developers select their consultants and contractors based on price, ignoring the accountability aspect.

A good developer will look into after-sales service, and ensure prompt rectification on its own cost although the defect liability period is over. Reputation is very important for long term business. If the developer refuses to do so, you know the irresponsible developer tries to "wash hand" and "hit and run" in whatever projects involved.
*
I think if the developer intends to stay in the industry and grow further, they have no choice but to ensure that:

1) They handle and rectify the situation at the Heron asap; and

2) The Zest's workmanship and final product are top notch to redeem themselves.

Cannot Tahan
post Sep 21 2009, 07:42 PM

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QUOTE(Alan Soo @ Sep 21 2009, 04:22 PM)
i just point out one of the common reason of popping floor, hope u wont toh i was trying to cover the developer.
at my previous working place, and one of my fren's house. their floor tile also pop out, but due to the buidling already more than 10 years, that's y my fren and my ex- boss didnt complaint to management.  my ex company is a class A contractor listed in KLSE, i ask my enginner collegue the reason of poping floor tiles b4. thats y i share my experience.

i better keep silent regarding the legal suit, cos i really lack of ledge knowledge, hope u wont mind the opinion i give b4.
*
Alamak my dear friend,

I already ask u to read me in friendly tone. I only read into substance and your real ID it is not the issue at all!

The popping is really "popping" popping, which is highly unusual, couple with the deep rift in the slab, and compare with YSMN, i said yours is sufficient but not abundant... Sufficient means Good, Abundant means perfect...

see u again

Who is YSMN? AND what he wrote? http://www.realestate.net.my/forum/viewtop...r=asc&start=575

ysmn
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:28 pm Post subject: Reply with quote

Without looking at the architectural & structural plan i'm just guessing that while it's structurally sound including piling, the architectural finishes are not adhering due to excessive structural deflection.
This is quite common when structural engineers rely solely on computer models, and architects do not appreciate structures.
For non engineers and non architects, at a risk of oversimplifying, it's likely that the structure and foundation are sound.
Usually any structure will have a certain degree of flexibility/deflection which is necessary in order that it does not snap.
However architectural finishes need a certain level of structural stiffness, otherwise the finishes will buckle under too much bending of the structure resulting in lifting of the floor finishes. Of course how much rigidity required depends on type of finishes system selected.
For example, if the slab and joints are more flexibile, then the finishes need to be less rigid.
You would appreciate this better if you paid attention, understood and remember your form 5 add maths and physics.
I'm not saying this is what happened at Heron, but it is probable if the engineer relied on computer modelling without much human skill & judgement nor appreciation of architectural finishes, and/or the architect didn't have a good understanding of how structures affect the selection of finishes; and the developer/contractor had not employed really good guys or did not allow them to do their jobs.
It makes a good case study for academic research but is no fun for owners and end users.
Most likely cause is too much structural deflection for the system of finishes selected.
To simplify, a timber finish on timber would be ok with higher structural deflection, but not a more rigid floor finish on a cement:sand screed base.
So a structure may be sufficient for the type of foundation and loads, but yet may not be rigid enough for the type of finishes selected.
This is also the next big headache for another project in KL that has been delayed for quite sometime which I mentioned earlier.
As Cannot Tahan very correctly wrote, one could seek damages in Tort, but the process could be more complicated than plaintifs might be willing to pursue.
Very interesting academic case study for the observer and researcher (architectural, engineering & law) but no fun for those directly affected.
I cannot say the same will happen with Zest, but the Developer should have learnt from experience by now.
_________________

This post has been edited by Cannot Tahan: Sep 21 2009, 07:52 PM
MyFirstHome
post Sep 21 2009, 11:26 PM

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QUOTE(fuyoh99 @ Sep 21 2009, 03:22 PM)
thank propcritic for the useful article.

Personally advice, we should take extra pre-caution on the Heron case.
We should put pressure on developer for good workmanship and build up quality.
If not mistaken pilling is almost completed by Sunway Construction and is good that developer have site inspect by professional bodies to make sure quality as promised to the buyer. And only hand over to sub-structure constructor to proceed.

As a buyer really piss off to heard that “the defect period is over /or/ please report to management for further action” as mention by in youtube posted in previous posting.
HEI MAN.... FLOOR IS CRACKING. This is the high rise building not single story.
We dun want to sleep at 8 floor and wake up at 7 floor or even worst. 

Hope we have a good quality sweet home

PREVENTION IS THE BEST CURE
*
Guys,why dont we meet during the 10/10/09 on the Show unit oopening and discuss this with The management? If we can sort out things even before the completion, we are atleast ahead of things ..

What do u guys think? i dun mind meeting u guys on the day n disucssing things out..its important i believe..
btw i m heading to the sales office on 26/9/09 to collect my S&P stamped documents. I will talk 2 them abt this.
cedrickang_8
post Sep 21 2009, 11:52 PM

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QUOTE(MyFirstHome @ Sep 21 2009, 11:26 PM)
Guys,why dont we meet during the 10/10/09 on the Show unit oopening and discuss this with The management? If we can sort out things even before the completion, we are atleast ahead of things ..

What do u guys think? i dun mind meeting u guys on the day n disucssing things out..its important i believe..
btw i m heading to the sales office on 26/9/09 to collect my S&P stamped documents. I will talk 2 them abt this.
*
agreed.
Alan Soo
post Sep 22 2009, 08:18 AM

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QUOTE(Cannot Tahan @ Sep 21 2009, 07:42 PM)
Alamak my dear friend,

I already ask u to read me in friendly tone. I only read into substance and your real ID it is not the issue at all!

The popping is really "popping" popping, which is highly unusual, couple with the deep rift in the slab, and compare with YSMN, i said yours is sufficient but not abundant... Sufficient means Good, Abundant means perfect...

see u again

Who is YSMN? AND what he wrote? http://www.realestate.net.my/forum/viewtop...r=asc&start=575

ysmn
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 1937
Location: Terris
PostPosted: Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:28 pm    Post subject:  Reply with quote

Without looking at the architectural & structural plan i'm just guessing that while it's structurally sound including piling, the architectural finishes are not adhering due to excessive structural deflection.
This is quite common when structural engineers rely solely on computer models, and architects do not appreciate structures.
For non engineers and non architects, at a risk of oversimplifying, it's likely that the structure and foundation are sound.
Usually any structure will have a certain degree of flexibility/deflection which is necessary in order that it does not snap.
However architectural finishes need a certain level of structural stiffness, otherwise the finishes will buckle under too much bending of the structure resulting in lifting of the floor finishes. Of course how much rigidity required depends on type of finishes system selected.
For example, if the slab and joints are more flexibile, then the finishes need to be less rigid.
You would appreciate this better if you paid attention, understood and remember your form 5 add maths and physics.
I'm not saying this is what happened at Heron, but it is probable if the engineer relied on computer modelling without much human skill & judgement nor appreciation of architectural finishes, and/or the architect didn't have a good understanding of how structures affect the selection of finishes; and the developer/contractor had not employed really good guys or did not allow them to do their jobs.
It makes a good case study for academic research but is no fun for owners and end users.
Most likely cause is too much structural deflection for the system of finishes selected.
To simplify, a timber finish on timber would be ok with higher structural deflection, but not a more rigid floor finish on a cement:sand screed base.
So a structure may be sufficient for the type of foundation and loads, but yet may not be rigid enough for the type of finishes selected.
This is also the next big headache for another project in KL that has been delayed for quite sometime which I mentioned earlier.
As Cannot Tahan very correctly wrote, one could seek damages in Tort, but the process could be more complicated than plaintifs might be willing to pursue.
Very interesting academic case study for the observer and researcher (architectural, engineering & law) but no fun for those directly affected.
I cannot say the same will happen with Zest, but the Developer should have learnt from experience by now.
_________________
*
i learn a lot of thing of this article, thanks for your post. may i know how the developer handle your case after malaysia kini report it? hopefully they can retify the things for you.

if there are structural damage, will u going to sue them? the heron resident need to move out not? hepefully u can give them lecture. i was always in friendly mode.

kimhoong
post Sep 22 2009, 08:36 AM

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We should move forward and identify what are the options we have now.

If there are someone who are knowledgeable in this field, kindly provide your advice.

Meeting at the showroom/new sales office is a good idea; but before that, it would be better that everyone is clear of the situation and foreseeable options in order to move forward - together.
arsenal
post Sep 22 2009, 12:33 PM

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Zest price will go down if got floor lifting? Maybe potential buyers can pinpoint this defects and get lower price to buy....tongue.gif
Cannot Tahan
post Sep 22 2009, 12:51 PM

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QUOTE(Alan Soo @ Sep 22 2009, 08:18 AM)
i learn a lot of thing of this article, thanks for your post.  may i know how the developer handle your case after malaysia kini report it?  hopefully they can retify the things for you.

if there are structural damage, will u going to sue them? the heron resident need to move out not? hepefully u can give them lecture. i was always in friendly mode.
*
My dear friend, i am not the affected one.

If it happens to me, be a structural or superficial, i will defintely sue them.

Pai
post Sep 22 2009, 06:12 PM

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Guys, update from the developer's SA :

1. Main con for Zest and Heron is different. Apparently the main con for Zest will be the same guys who build IOI Boulevard.

2. Think its Jasmurni construction or something, can anyone else knowledgable verify?

P/s: I merely communicate this based on what the SA told me. Pls do your own intelligence to verify the above. There's a sour retard from SW sales office wanted to attack me at any opportunity just bcoz she could not verify her false claims smile.gif


Added on September 22, 2009, 6:31 pm
QUOTE(eugene jk @ Sep 21 2009, 02:18 PM)
ok.. I was follow heron's forum closely since the beginning and yes, most of the complain is about poor management and workmanship.. This tile crack issue is kinna new to me and I only got to know when other forumers post them up... No offence, this issue is new to me as well...  brows.gif
*
Same here mate. Just wanna clear the air so that other's dont think we were making fun on HERON buyers smile.gif


Added on September 22, 2009, 7:09 pm
QUOTE(cedrickang_8 @ Sep 21 2009, 11:52 PM)
agreed.
*
Count me in smile.gif

This post has been edited by Pai: Sep 22 2009, 07:09 PM
MFLooi
post Sep 22 2009, 08:39 PM

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.

This post has been edited by MFLooi: Sep 22 2009, 08:47 PM
airline
post Sep 22 2009, 08:49 PM

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how come i missed opportunity to buy Zest?

and got people in 'heated discussion'. Haha

actually i missed buying Saville, Old Klang Road also. cause i thought Metro Kajang quality was crap. Too late now.
propcritic
post Sep 22 2009, 09:47 PM

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QUOTE(Pai @ Sep 22 2009, 06:12 PM)
Guys, update from the developer's SA :

1. Main con for Zest and Heron is different. Apparently the main con for Zest will be the same guys who build IOI Boulevard.

2. Think its Jasmurni construction or something, can anyone else knowledgable verify?

P/s: I merely communicate this based on what the SA told me. Pls do your own intelligence to verify the above. There's a sour retard from SW sales office wanted to attack me at any opportunity just bcoz she could not verify her false claims smile.gif
Yup, not sure about Heron's contractor but for the Zest, TT is using the same contractor as the one IOI uses for IOI Boulevard...


Added on September 22, 2009, 10:01 pm
QUOTE(propcritic @ Sep 22 2009, 09:47 PM)
Yup, not sure about Heron's contractor but for the Zest, TT is using the same contractor as the one IOI uses for IOI Boulevard...
*
Here's the info:

http://www.cidb.gov.my/directory/local_con...?cont_id=109313

The Zest oredi listed there.


H.Maklumat Projek:
Bil Tajuk Tarikh Anugerah Nilai (RM) Kilen
1. C&C Of S/Structure Wks- Cdg Pmbg Brcmpr Mdgi 3 Blk Komersial Services Aprt 720U Mdgi: Blk A-20T-240U Kediaman, Blk B-20T-240U Kediaman, Blk C-20T-240U Kediaman & 5T Podium-Aras TLK Trmsk Kmdhn Rmh Kelab, K/Renang, Kedai Pjbt 24U Lot PT5469, Mk Kinrara 11-08-2009 RM 98,500,000.00


This post has been edited by propcritic: Sep 22 2009, 10:01 PM

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