Hackwire,
Just checked TI Corruption Perception Index, Malaysia is at 56 & Iindonesia is at 111 for 2009.
Let's celebrate.

As to the PBTs going about giving everyone a tough time.. well there is 1 1/2 (one and a half) side to the coin.
1 side is as you have shared. 1 half could be that our well meaning councillors mean well and wanted to reign in some repeat offenders. And our equally well meaning enforement/licencing dept just hantam only lah. Maybe got KPI target to hit mah. After some screaming and bad press everything will go back to 1Malaysia. I one, I want, You give.
The other half-leh? That is donated to Transparency International to accumulate for 2010.

They need only to call in some reps from the particular business and inform them before hand.
Kau tim. No bad press. The players will be good boys for a while.
Enforcement can quickly turn into persecution according to their whim.

Maybe the same scenario will unfold with the BH guidelines? ...if they do not invite us for a preview?

When things in your life seem , almost too much to handle,
When 24 Hours in a day is not enough,
Remember the mayonnaise jar and 2 cups of coffee.

A professor stood before his philosophy class
And had some items in front of him.
When the class began, wordlessly,
He picked up a very large and empty mayonnaise jar
and proceeded to fill it with golf balls.

He then asked the students, if the jar was full.
They agreed that it was.

The professor then picked up a box of pebbles and poured
them into the jar. He shook the jar lightly.
The pebbles rolled into the open Areas between the golf balls.

He then asked the students again if the jar was full. They agreed it was.

The professor next picked up a box of sand and poured it into the jar.
Of course, the sand filled up everything else.
He asked once more if the jar was full. The students responded with a unanimous 'yes.'

The professor then produced two cups of coffee from under the table and poured the entire contents into the jar, effectively
filling the empty space between the sand. The students laughed.

'Now,' said the professor, as the laughter subsided,
'I want you to recognize that this jar represents your life.
The golf balls are the important things - family,
children, health, Friends, and Favorite passions –
Things that if everything else was lost and only they remained, Your life would still be full.

The pebbles are the other things that matter like your job, house, and car.

The sand is everything else --The small stuff.

'If you put the sand into the jar first,' He continued,
'there is no room for the pebbles or the golf balls.
The same goes for life.

If you spend all your time and energy on the small stuff,
You will never have room for the things that are important to you.

So...

Pay attention to the things that are critical to your happiness.
Play With your children.
Take time to get medical checkups.
Take your partner out to dinner.

There will always be time to clean the house and fix the disposal.

'Take care of the golf balls first --
The things that really matter.
Set your priorities. The rest is just sand.'

One of the students raised her hand and inquired what the coffee represented.

The professor smiled.
'I'm glad you asked'.

It just goes to show you that no matter how full your life may seem,
there's always room for a couple of cups of coffee with a friend.'

---

Added on January 11, 2010, 1:02 pmmalaysia govt love to spent more time drinking Coffee with you

This post has been edited by hackwire: Jan 11 2010, 01:04 PM

Will the "shared" scheme in Swiftlet Farming ends up like this? If it sounds too fantastic, you'd better watch out. Often, it is the poor & needy that will suffer the most.

KULIM:Terpedaya dengan pulangan sekali ganda dalam 12 bulan melalui skimpelaburan penternakan cacing, kira-kira 3,000 pelabur mendakwamengalami kerugian RM30 juta apabila penganjurnya menutup operasi danmenghilangkan diri sejak Khamis lalu........................



This post has been edited by coolandy: Jan 11 2010, 09:38 PM

coolandy!!! busy ah? missed your criticism.

RM30m... damn, the mastermind must be a pro at MLM stuff, even the managing c/o got duped. I believe our industry also has such con's, but maybe at a lesser scale. Whatever it is, please verify every detail of information before investing... kang habis duit pencen.

hackwire, maybe we should have a cup of coffee sometime : )

Haish... about the PBT, looks like their trying to include my BH under their supervision. Will meet them next week. I am aware that any Yang Di Pertua Majlis has the authority to do so (even on agri land, according to Akta Kerajaan Tempatan 1976), but until then i'll wait for the black and white. No black & white... sorry la. I plan to make this 1st BH a good example for others in the state... to do so i have to adhere to legalities and be nice to the relevant buggers for info. Might sound stupid... but it will be a good experience for me and a reference for others. Nak sangat RM1,000 deposit & annual RM300 something... ambik la (ikutkan hati nak campak je duit kat muka depa, then again it won't be courteous, haha!).

BH almost finished. Wish me luck.

I am considering a joint venture with a malay on malay reserved land. What are the things I need to look out for ? Can such jv be perpetual ?

Will build a small bh in the beginning i.e. about 20 x 60 , 2 storey building. When there are nests it will be extended.

Any pointers would be appreciated. Thank you.



This post has been edited by chiongguo: Jan 12 2010, 05:11 PM

DSMB,
You are right, very very busy. I wish you the best in your new BH. If successful, don't forget to belanja 1 kopi O, especially to West Wing :-).


chiongguo,

make sure your agreement is done by a good lawyer. Disputes normally come into play when

1. The birdhouse is successful and money comes in sacks
2. When there is death and children, brothers, parents etc fight for their share
3. Best is to form a company with a 51/49% share. Have a few directors and let company rent the place.

I hope others can contribute ideas.

To bust cartel-like monopolistic price structure set up regional cooperatives. Cooperatives with the capacity to buffer up supply in time of excesses and stock release during time of shortages. BH owner who are not consultant and developer are in the best position to head and lead such cooperatives. Interest groups could also be setup within such cooperatives - those who are interested in developing their skills and understanding. This is to prevent being con by consultant and developers.

Market analysis could and should be done regularly. Open trading could also be done. Free-flow of pricing information will prevent monopolistic manipulation.

In the charter of association perhaps it could be added that no developer and no consultant should be allowed to be elected as executive member of the cooperative. Of course they could do it through proxy but hopefully there are enough BH owner to counter such proxy representation.

This post has been edited by chiongguo: Jan 13 2010, 09:01 PM

Ben Cai did post at ASPCA site and I also comment on it, too but as Calvin Lee
We not only past comment here but where there is a need to speak up, we do provide as we truly feel for the swiftlets like Ben......carry on Ben!!! Carry on all swiftlets protectors and providers of swiftlets sanctuaries cos you are never alone!!!!

aspcacommunity.ning.com/profiles/blogs/please-help-us-to-prevent -

I think failure also can spark of disputes when partners finger pointing each other such as " Sudah 1 tahun, tahi pun tak ada, ini semua kerja kau, kita bayar je konsultan 30 ribu, janji masuk burung, apa kata kau ?

If both parties contribute money, failures can lead to ugly scenes. "Sudah 1 tahun, tahi pun tidak ada.". Sedihnya.

However in the above case, maybe only one party build the BH, the other just provide land.

This post has been edited by coolandy: Jan 13 2010, 08:49 AM

Thanks Coolandy.

Yes, that's the arrangement. I was thinking of starting small i.e. 20' x 50' , 2 storey high. But the foundation slab stretch to 100'. And expansion will be from sale of birdnests.

My concern is really what happen when the land owner passes on. Will the JV still hold up under the syariah law ? Can JV be made under the syariah law ? Perhaps folks from GEMM could provide input. I know of other malays with land but do not have the capacity to develop it. Everyday they see swiftlets flying through their land in great abundance and is helpless to benefit from the rahmat from God.

If Malay reserved land, any agreement with non-malay where the land is tied up is null and void. Go to court also no use.
The JV is more of personal trust than legal.

No WW, this had been going on for umpteen years, at least in kuantan. Kuantan won some "silly award" and they became euphoric and over-zealous.

Since PR won the parliament and "made some noises" in the early days the Town Council kept looking over its shoulders. This I was told and some seem happy with the "new" and now not so new enthusiasm to please.

No problem coolandy! 2-3 kopi O 4 u & WW also can.


I know cooperatives are more transparent & to an extent more democratic in decisions and equal dividends... and whatsmore, it involves voluntary participation & commitment (especially for the board & officials) not unlike associations. I also believe that the culture of cooperation in Malaysia is still in its infancy, bukan apa... we notice that the 2007 Amendments (Cooperations Act 1993) was more of a short term solution to curb abuse, rather than to nurture cooperation culture among Malaysians. A typical move from a government so used to taking shortcuts, short term solutions despite have the resources to properly solve such issues.

It would be hard to exclude developers/consultants from being members of cooperatives, even if they didn't use proxies. In the end the cooperative is just like an association/party. What we can do is brief ordinary members about the fundamental aim and function of the cooperatives formation, ensure the board has enough leverage to repel unnecessary tampering of decisions and other officials appointed based on uniformity of understanding the cooperatives will. Its the same as associations.

About the JV on Malay reserve land. 1ST POINT, even Malay land wont be untouched by PBT (as in my case, hahahaha!).

http://www.kptg.gov.my/index.php?option=co...emid=77&lang=ms

The above link is about Malay Reserve. There was this drive to allow leasing last year, but i don't think it'll materialize any time soon. Even if you did make a c/o or vehicle for ownership of the structure... the issue still lies on the land status... my advice since, so far theres no way you can secure your interest legally with regards to Malay reserve... get another location, not Malay reserve.

Unless you are willing to gamble your interests in your trust of your friend... and even at that... as pointed by coolandy, once he's gone? About Faraid (pembahagian harta Islam), like it or not it'll still refer to some conventional legalities. Black and white it'll still be against you since it any agreement wont stand up in court.

Hehe, thought so. Beginning to sound like we're Swiftlet Freedom Fighters! ;p

Coolandy,
How do you propose to share the risk?
No matter what the land will always be there, as such there is no risk, there is only a lost of opportunity in rental or capital gains on a sale or lost of revenue from existing biz on the land.
The BH cant be taken away whole.
I met a land owner in Sg Ruan, Pahang where he JV with a Setiawan sifu.
The way they did it was to sum the total cost ie value of land + cost of BH.
Then they decided how much each is willing to foot.
Say land=RM100K, BH=RM300K ie RM400K
My guess they will form a company and transfer all assets to co.
Shareholding will be according to how much equity each is willing to take up.
By default the land owner will own 25% from his contribution of the land, & the sifu who built the BH wil own 75%.
But if the land owner wants more equity then he comes out with the required cash for that.
This rely on being able to transfer the land, how will you do that for Malay Reserve land.
I know there are folks who do it with a PA, which is unenforceable.

So many questions with no answers!

If the local authority men want to have a look into your BH, do you allow them in?
If they issue a compound for running a BH without a permit or lesen, what do you do?
There are many ifs and what to do questions and really, how many of us here know actually or exactly what to do in these situations?

Do we have Lawyers here who can advice us on the above. What I will do with my 5 sen knowledge of Law which is about the same as any layman,
1. I would not allow them into my BH unless it is for the purpose for the BH requirements under the application for BH permit but I will try to speak to them politely and maybe telling them that the keys are not with me.........or one of my partners is outstation.
2. I would ask them on which Law and how does he knows that I am running a BH or that I am just leaving my upper floors free. To me is that what they can't see, they can't take action against you unless they have proof of your BH or renovation.

With all the commotions and problems arising here and there, sooner or later, there bound to be some real bad incidents happening and what shall we do????

Surely, the Swiftlet Federal Association should give us some guidelines and advice us on what we should do in case of such incidents do happen as most of us are members or associates. Representatives of the Fed. Association pls. reply.


And if you look around, in alot of those places that licenses have been given, not all are given but only the selected people and how do they screen the applicants on whom to give or not........... maybe because they are the VIPs, the have connections, the office bearers of the Associations or have money to pay...........your guess is as good as mine.

What does that leave us...........the talk too much (not the talkative), the know no one and the have no money to pay????

Even in an equal society, some are more equal than others, just like in grading birdnests, you have A, then you have super A and maybe you will have super A plus and more and more. Mana ada equality, mati pun tak sama. Cool down, me ..me and think position ...positive...mesti ada jalan sama

This post has been edited by West Wing: Jan 13 2010, 06:58 PM

Cooperations have very different article of association. Cooperations can go into business or economic activities on behalf of the members. For this reason it can buffer and release stock to regulate price. If there were enough members no one without sufficient resources would dare to mess with the equitable price structure.

It can go into upstream activities such as cleaning of birdnest, products using birdnest etc.

Developers and consultants are not excluded as members only from being in the management committee.

In all the schemes and scams that is going on in the industry cooperatives can be a center of sanity and fair play.

The day to day running is by professional managers while all policies, programs and directives came from the management committee - which has to be elected and/or appointed.


Thanks for the link.

So far, is there such a koperasi yet chiongguo? i sure would learn a lot from them (had the initiative to propose a local koperasi, but shot down the idea since there were too many 'politicians' in the community). there will be a processing center in the east coast sometime this year if things go smoothly, but under an association.

I'll share everything i know once i go thru them WW (this year, definitely). PBT's are a hassle. I'll show you what i mean;

1. Mine is on agriland, initially NOT within their operations zone.
2. They are now submitting my case to the PBT Licensing Board, to include my BH within their operations zone. Deposit of 1k, annual 200-300 something.
3. Since initially it wasn't under their jurisdiction, once gazetted by the YDP... must or must i not follow specifications of the shoplot units (safety, structural integrity/design, fire safety, etc)? Since it is still on agriland but under the PBT's operations zone...
4. Since it will come under the operations zone, i will now have to apply for 'business premise' under the PBT.

It sure is fun ain't it? I have already identified some major loopholes but i'll have to put it to the test before confirming.

Dunsun,
WW mentioned earlier a RM300 licence fee in Kuantan? Yr BH In Pahang?
1)The fee is under PBT jurisdiction & discretion.
Negotiate if they allow or they can say it's gazetted or some other excuse.
I recall a past sharing (cant recall whom) of DL challenging the PBT either in Kedah or Perak on the high fees.
PBT have somehow equated BH to goldsmith. DL asked how much goldsmith are charged for their licence. He managed to bring it down to RM200 region. It may temporarily serve as the benchmark (ie the local goldsmith), until we can come up with something better.

2)Let me remind ALL here that we have to demand service in return for our money.
We have to start demanding that PBT with AUTHORITY they also carry the RESPONSIBILITY.
Hypothetical eg: if current guidelines state that BH to be 100M from residential houses
We now comply and are compliant. It is the PBT's RESPONSIBILITY to ENSURE they dont approve new/further residential developments within 100m of our birdhouse!!!! We have to demand this instead of complaining later of this & that.
This is real as I suppose most would have chosen spots that have utilities available & these locations are not far from developer 'serial/terrace rape'. Cos we cant take them to court for omission of action ie they act stupid and say yakah, saya tak tahu. Only they can plead ignorance of their own rules and get away with it. And with new residential developments within 100M, NOW your BH is ILLEGAL. For the rest of us, Ignorance is not a defense.

Coming from the mouth of a YTP, why can't we be the No.1 to enforce ....meaning to move all BHs out of town. And to add to the pain......the State and the PBT have the say in land matter and not the Fed.

So where are we now......at the starting point again? Even the new Guidelines may not favor us at all but what do I know about the new guidelines.....just guessing but hope for the best.....but at least we need to know where we stand from the mouth of the horse i.e the President of the National Swiftlets Association.