I am a SPM students and looking foward to do A-Level. Please vote for the best A LEVEL school in terms of academic performance, college location, and facilities. Do give some feedback regarding the A Level Programme in each college if you have gone through them.


HELP UNIVERSITY COLLEGE
Taylor University College
Sunway University College
Kolej Tunku Jaafar
UCSI
Institut Sinaran Sabah
INTI COLLEGE MALAYSIA





This post has been edited by Lemonfish: Oct 21 2007, 05:40 PM

if you are looking for a good name on your piece of paper, the name would be "Taylors"

How about Help University College and Kolej Tunku Jaafar. If i am to do actuarial science in my University Level, which college have the best lecturer on subject like Further Mathematics, Economic and Accounting??

If money isn't a factor for u, then maybe sunway college should suite you. Erm, btw, y u choose A level, afaik, A level is like stpm, study all the thing first, then the final exam is testing u for all the thing that u study in one go. Im a foundation student, and its quite different, because the exam is per sem, after that sem, u can totally forget that subject and learn new thing.. just my 20 cents

same case. although relatively easier, but A level will have wider choice when you wanna go study either locally or abroad.

This opinion poll will most probably be biased! Well i guess thats why its called an "opinion poll" doh!

I'd say go to Taylor's College just because thats the only place I've actually studied in for a while (ADP!).

Yup. Money isnt a limiting factor for me. But is Sunway good?? I heard that the quality is not on par with Taylor and they are many rich kids showing off and partying. The reason i choose to do A Level is because I plan to do my degree in UK. Most top university in UK need A Level to qualify for their Undergraduate Programme.

This post has been edited by Lemonfish: Oct 21 2007, 06:21 PM

i'm not reli biased, i come from SIT International College( managed by Help U), the lecturers here are fantastic, but i would still recommend taylors (if u have the money) because of the piece of result paper bearing the big "TAYLORS" on it.

Can i know what so special about the name with TAYLOR big name. They are not the same group as Taylor Australia. I dont know what make Taylor tht special. Mind to elaborate???

This post has been edited by Lemonfish: Oct 21 2007, 06:16 PM

HELp or Sunway for me. most of frens go to either this college.

Only reason "Taylor's College" is "Special" is because people know about it. The more people who know about a certain college the more likely you would hear good things about it (well the bad things too).

Also do not limit yourself to UK, check out US it might actually be cheaper (yes I said cheaper, if you do not believe me check it out yourself, even the exchange rate is a little more affordable compared to the UK currency) and you do not have to go through the hassle of taking an A-lvls course before applying to a university. Though, you'd have to take a couple of tests (SAT 1 & 2).

Then again I am also being biased on my previous paragraph just because I am pro-US, well actually I'm a rebel and I did not want to go to any mini Malaysia countries (Australia & UK, yes you guys know you are mini Malaysia's!).

This post has been edited by alxa3021: Oct 21 2007, 06:49 PM

?
Taylor's is nothin wat
pls la, admission into Uni is based on ur A-levels result, nt the name of ur college
it's nt like Uni degree, where it makes a huge diff btw Harvard n any newly established college(esp in Malaysia)

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Added on October 21, 2007, 6:22 pmif an Uni selects students based on where they come from, den it's for sure some probs wif the Uni d

This post has been edited by wgy589: Oct 21 2007, 06:22 PM

u're totally wrong. which one is better, A-level from taylors or A-level from XXX school u never heard of, provided the grades are the same?

Yup. I either going to UK for economic related stuff or to Australia for my Engineering. I dont feel of going to US. HAHA
I am more comfortable with Australia and UK eduacation.

Do take note that even though Taylor's is well-known, there are 1 or 2 lecturers who are, well, less popular among students because of their teaching methods. You can however, lodge complaints and request for change of lecturer.

if u r studying abroad, then u must take A lvl alrd.. no other choice. But from what u said, in sunway there are lots of rich ppl showing off.. yea, my friend is from sunway, and he damn hate those people.

One of my friend are also from Taylor, from what he told me, taylor is quite a good college, with good lecturers. Taylor is more english-oriented i thnk, the students thr spoke english almost all the time.

It's actually up to u.. in my opinion, sunway and taylor is quite the same.

no, not neccesarily

Depends on who u mix with. There are students from Chinese Independent Schools who actually prefer to speak mandarin

There are exceptions to the statement you made, American Universities do not require you to complete A-levels to enter or apply to their universities.

yaya, not neccesarilly , but most of the time i guess..

er, well, the destination to me doesnt matter as long u work for ur grades
as u can see, taylors charge 24k for a-levels,
in some other colleges they charge you less than 10k...
and I seriously dont understand why Taylors charge this amount of money if u compare with other colleges, their main campus is kindda crammed btw

This post has been edited by K-I-R-A: Oct 21 2007, 09:19 PM

if u are rich go for KYUEM
Kolej Yayasan United Engineering of Msia..
there are wher those under govn sship / private sector sship sent to..
its really a nice place for studyin..

i hear most of the students studying there are under scholarship
and in the past few years this college has been producing quite a number of graduates with impressive results iirc

which ever college is not a huge factor as long as you can get what you need to get into UK uni.

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Added on October 21, 2007, 11:32 pmhe is right actually. acceptance to UK uni doent really relate to which college you went to, but your a-level result. because GSCE a-level is an external examination.

This post has been edited by youngkies: Oct 21 2007, 11:32 PM

GCE A-level is an external examination. Taylor's College has nothing to do with it.

Again, no one gives a damn as to which college you did your A-levels at.

It is just like buying apples from pasar malam and cold storage, same species of apples, sold at a different price.

This post has been edited by feynman: Oct 22 2007, 12:35 AM

Seeing the results..I wish to express some of my thoughts. It's not where you get your education. What matters is how much effort you put into getting the results. I'm from IS and I got 4A's not because the college is good or anything..The facilities, teaching, and location to some extent might influence your choice but I don't think there should be a "best" destination for A level in Malaysia. Results wise, Taylors score best ?..well..that maybe because they have more students than the rest of the colleges?

Besides, I remember a school mate of mine got "top in the world", yes..not just top in malaysia..but IN THE WORLD for business.. So don't get influenced by the biased poll. It really doesn't matter where you study!



Totally in agreement!
The price is just bogus. A friend of mine went to taylor's for A levels ended up regretting it and returned to IS.


This post has been edited by T3Vince: Oct 22 2007, 01:25 AM

Based on your situation,i would suggest you taylor or sunway college.since $$ is not a problem for you,then go for it. .anyway,if you think you are easily influenced by others....haha better choose others college~ just my 2 cent.

HELP has the best team.....Ms Kimmie Tan is well known for Economics, & Mr Jahn Cheah the Dept Head is famous for Further Maths....just come over...we have the best of teams.

Many of the students under our mentoring gain wide acceptance into prestigious universities like Cambridge & LSE.

Be aware that some famous PHD holder or 1st class master degree might not be a good lecturer, yea they are smart and famous, but there're no guarantee that they can teach the students effectively.. So its better to ask someone who actually went to that particular college, will be the finest info u can find

it doesnt matter which college u take ur A lvls in, its how well u score...

its not da same with a degree course...

if money is not a problem, then any college would be fine, but if it is a problem, juz dun go to colleges like taylors where they charge 20k+ for A lvls

This post has been edited by lost123: Oct 22 2007, 07:55 PM

haha
seriously la, it doesn't matter much.
Basically, taylors is just a tiny private college in Malaysia. U got money, u get in.

it does not matter which college u get it from, it's the same..... wat they say is right

no u dont have to, there are others like AUSMAT, SAM, ADP, UEC, IB and even STPM is accepted overseas

This post has been edited by evanesence117: Oct 22 2007, 10:39 PM

Thanks for the feedback given. Any furthur advise, especially student that had gone through A LVL in the above mentioned college..

im doing a-levels at HELP now..i chose HELP cause the exam is from the London board and this means can resit ur paper..but in Taylors is the Cambridge board which is like SPM..study for 1 1/2 years and then sit for one final exam..so there is more pressure not to mention Cambridge board papers are tougher..im taking for subjects and the fees are rm20k+..All my lecturers were good until my econs teacher left..now stuck with some newbie lousy teacher..

What is the difference between A LVL from London Board and from Cambridge??

For Cambridge board, you DON'T study for 1 1/2 yrs n sit for 1 final exam. For Further Math paper, yes, but other than that, you actually sit for 2 exams, AS & A2, both of which are of equal weightage

http://bekaspenuh.blogspot.com/2007/08/cam...ge-edexcel.html

hope this helps

This post has been edited by cain: Oct 25 2007, 12:35 AM

ooo..didint know that..but London board can retake more times..

Anyone who is smart will not try to retake the units.........so study hard, don't slack off and your years doing A-levels will be enjoyable.

i think theres another big diff with the london and cambdrige board. you do yours in different sets of units. like cambridge has the AS in one shot, and london has the AS in two sets if im not mistaken?

currently doing my AS now, i seriouslly hope not to retake. Its freaking stressful. 5 different papers if i have to resit the exams.

so you gotta first choose your alevel examination board, and from there filter out the rest.


KYUEM is a good school. Kolej Tunku Jaafar as well. this are popular colleges, KTJ is well known private boarding school.

well the name taylors on it doesnt really mean that much. getting the grade is the fore most important thing. your extracurricular activities, your personal statement.

in terms of lecturers, every college would have their fair share of shitty ones and good ones. Im quite thankful i got some pretty good lecturers but i pity some of my friends with the bad ones. but at the end of the day A levels you really gotta do your own work. research up on your own. and dont wait till the last minute even if the exams are months ahead. I had to learn the hard way, even though i did study i still made silly mistakes and didnt hit my target for trials.

as i am from taylors, i think its an all right place to go to. i choose it mainly cause of my friends, the cambridge board. and of course since i stay in damansara, i needed a change of enviroment, so i didnt look at any in the pj area.

Yeah,retaking is not a good idea,especially if you have further maths.

In institut sinaran sabah now. Now doing A level (AS + A) together. According to them, the fees is the cheapest in whole Malaysia. You can finish the whole course for just 6K. The teachers are quite good , no bad comment so far. Going to graduate Nov 26.

lol... you have to know which subjects u waant to take wat~
then only decide?

perhaps you want to look to the lecturer:student ratio

If you are a good student, chances are that you will score most of the time wherever you go

However, if you are so so, then perhaps you want to have more personal attention, which means lesser lecturer to student ratio

When you go for course counseling in colleges, try to look for the lecturers or at least people who teach the course (in this case A Levels)

They tend to be less biased and they give you slightly more accurate picture. If you get counseled by the marketing people, the normal thing is of course their college is the best. For whatever reason.

To give you an example:
Taylors has been in the industry for one of the longest around, and they have a good reputation. Every year, perhaps they have 1000 A-Level students already, it is not surprising if they have lets say 10 students that go to cambridge or imperial or oxford, that is only 1% by the way.

What happens to the rest of the 99%?

I'm not trying to kill your dreams, but you do really have to consider these figures, not everybody ends up in the top 1% and that is what most colleges advertise.

Just some tips, a few things you want to check

- Student to lecturer ratio ( if it is low, then higher chance to get some free "tuition" after classes )
- Budget ( A-Levels is just pre U, save money there and spend for your degree, or, save on your degree, pay for masters)
- Majority record ( Most colleges has some super TOP students who went into some super good Uni, find out where the others go. If you get to Princeton or Harvard or Oxford, good... but it is safer to bet on 99% than 1%)
- Take a walk around the college and feel the atmosphere ( sometimes you can feel that some students are cheerful, or some are slacking, some are so competitive; afterall whether you study well or not is influenced a lot by the culture of the college. I know of friends who go to very popular colleges, face peer pressure, end up going out partying and stuff like that)
- Don't pay too much attention to the advertisements, they are filled with marketing strategies; go talk with students and lecturers ( chances are that they don't get commision for enrolling you up )

Actually, having 17 students going to Cambridge is something to be proud.It's not a easy uni to enter and only that year,which is 2006,Taylors have 10+ students going to Cambridge.Other than that year,only a few manage to get an offer.Only one guy in my class got an offer from Cambridge.Besides,Cambridge has quota for Malaysia is about 30 students per year if im not wrong.

Most of my friends are in universities like MIT,NUS,University of Manchester and University of Melbourne.

Taylor's isnt a crappy place to go.Most of the lecturers are good too but there are some who arent so good.

For medicine maybe.....but not for anything else.

So you have a lot of friends at MIT?

My intention is London School of Economic. But i heard it is tough to get in. If i am a science stream student with quite an excellent track of record, do u guys think i should give up my science and take up economic and accounting in A Level??

if you want to play safe, check what subjects LSE need.
I havent check the requirements yet, but sometimes certain subjects are not needed as entry requirement

If possible you can still take some sciences, e.g. Math, Chem, Phy, Econs?

What Joellee said is correct. The most important thing to do a BSc Economics at LSE is mathematics, so if you apply with math FM, physics and econs or any other traditional subject, you will be a strong applicant. DO NOT take accounting if you intend to apply for BSc Economics. A-level economics is fine and you must know that you are not required to take it. It will not jeopardise your application.

This post has been edited by feynman: Oct 26 2007, 09:51 PM

im taking maths,chem and econs..dunno what i wanna take after A-Levels..

Anyone from Help University College here?? I wanna know about their law programme... Help is a good university to study???

y want Help? Go ATC la. Best record for external law programme, but other story lo if u want to take internal.

Wht is the difference between ATC external law degree and HELP internal law degree. BTW, where is ATC located. Can i have the full name of the college? I have a friend interested in taking law.

www.atc2u.com

the ATC website... located in Chinatown
well, the college i have to say is a bit lousy and not so good in their management
but they have a very good law library and their notes damn good.

external programme is how u finish ur couse locally by taking abroad exam from london university. of course can opt to transfer in middle.

while internal like those in help is where student need to study abroad and more expensive.

lolz...... i juz want information nia.... i won't take now coz i'm studying business now... disappointed that kch don't have law programme....

haha... i see
besides those big college that provide law like help and taylor, perhaps u can check out nirwana and mentari.
still... i think atc better

what is the full name of ATC??

Kemayan Advance Tertiery College

yeah ATC is a very good law school for the courses they offer and probably also for the CLP...but their facilities are average, and amongst the many students, there are a few problem ones....a number students are leaving because of the atmosphere...but if that's not a problem...then shud be ok!

Hi i going to take 3 maths, 1 chem and 1 business, what college is your recommended?

how do you take 3 maths?

About Law, definitely BAC and ATC is much more famous. but it would always be good to get to know about other colleges offering them. The reason I say this is not because they are not good or anything, but BAC and ATC more or less only does law and perhaps slight variations of it.

It reduces your exposure to other fields for one. College years are quite interesting where u get to learn tons of stuff. ATC and BAC is smack in the middle of the city. Only buildings there. Not much of campus life.

former a levels from taylors here
everything is fairly good there actually...
the lecturers?there are to many of them, to tell u they're generally good is a lie...
crammed?yah...but u dun stay inside there why bother...u stay out eat out..
location?in the heart of sj,wat more do u want?
results from here are generally better than other institutions because there are really a bunch of nerdies (cool ppl oso got la) that gives u that peer pressure and make u do well...thats my opinion..lol
and my piece of advice...go for jan intakes...they get better tutors...
dun go for march...its too express and the tutors are inferior...but as i said...to generalize all the tutors is irrelevant..all are just my 1st hand experience...thats all

Where is ATC located??? Which foreign universities they collaborated with?? Can complete in malaysia??

It located at chinatown, cheapo place but many lawyers out from that place eh
ATC main in external programmes where students can complete their course locally.
there got part time and full time courses
Exam is from University of London
Last week there got Cardiff representative came to the college to intro bout their course, and normally there will be numbers of Atc students that will be taken into their University (in England)

I don't know where chinatown is... I suppose you mean Petaling Street?? I'm not from KL, anyway...... The tuition fees at ATC expensive ma?

Yes, Chinatown=Petaling Street.

I'm not sure about the exact amount, but if i remember correctly, the tuition fees are not expensive compared to Taylor's...

About Law,

I found out that Taylors have (if Im not wrong ) exclusive partnership with Reading U.

INTI would have A few: cardiff, Leeds, Sheffield...

About other colleges, wont know.

But first stage is still A-Levels la...

hello, i just wanna ask if i didn't take biology for my SPM will I be allowed to take it for A Levels?

you will be allowed to take it. but it's not advisable to do so. you might have a problem during AS because it's a repetitive of spm syllabus. hence, you might be able to cope with it. but A2 is harder and completely different than AS because A2 focus more on practical+thinking rather than like AS, straight from the book in my experience.

Hey, does anybody here have the mark schemes for Biology Paper 2(MCQ) from the year 1996 until 2001?(CIE board) I'm looking for them. If anybody has it, I'm willing to pay cause I can't find them. Thanks

Mac Centre doesn't have them meh? If not, maybe you can try the library... u're off-topic btw

ATC fees for a level... to tell u, I forgot
registration fees = 1070 (include LAN subjects and library etc etc)
tuition fees, some where around 6k
exam fees around rm 1050 (cambridge)
so around 8k for one year course of a level

if u want to do a local twinning or the UOL external programme...take the one year pre law A level....can be done at a few colleges including ATC, BAC and Nirwana. If u intend to go overseas and try your luck at Oxbridge or other colleges, take your time do the normal A levels at Taylors or Sunway...not many students score well by doing A levels in one year...quite tough

for me,i ll say KTJ is better compared to other commercialised colls,not to offend any1 but KTJ is real good for a levels,my sis hv been studyin there,they hv small classes n good teachers,good food n accomodation..even one of my sis's history teacher is from UN,the student life is really great..fees is about 70k..

Sunway 17k+
Taylors 18K+
BAC <10K
ATC <10k
TAR <9k
KDU 12K+

Went to edu fair and these are my approximation

what about Kolej Tunku Abdul Rahman?
RM6k+ for Cambridge A-levels, tope class facilities [huge ass library, olympic-size swimming pool, tennis bball badminton courts, etc etc]
yes darn fine lecturers too.

if you dont mind the more chinese educated demographic, TAR is a mighty good choice for a-levels.

And i disagree with people who claim that the name of college actually makes a difference. I dont think this is like being in university where the institution has a huge impact on your future prospects.

A-levels [cambridge, at the least] - set by the same orang putihs from london, marked by the same orang putihs from london. no matter if ur from taylors, tarc, or hong kong, its the same. why pay more? you tell me.

Hey taylors is 26k +

How about HELP?

brickfields college is good and affordable.

Expect at least RM 20k.

When I did it it was 4 subjects at RM16k (excluding exam fees, expect to fork out bout 2k more for this) and that was during 2005. Now if I'm not mistaken its RM20k for 4 subjects

bear in mind that help's a-levels is modular instead of linear, as opposed to Cambridge a-levels.

TARC is an alternative of all the collge above. Not many notice they offer A level as they famous for diploma and advance dip
taylors famous of the publicsity to the press whne the A level result came out...yes..the result is good...but not the only college in malaysia that the result is good....
In 10 yrs..Taylors fee already double up....wow..better than invest in share market

I'm taking A level and I'm planning to go for business after that ( oversea most probably ) ... I know its the grades that matter but then if I get really good lecturers I can score with less effort ... But then the price might be a problem for me .. 20++K is too expensive for A level I think .. Any good private college that offers A-level with good lecturers to recommend ?

Taylors is always renowned for the record breaking results of its a-levels programme. Nonetheless, INTI is another popular alternative due to its lower tution and miscellaneuos fee.

My question is a bit direct, which institution can produce better students? what i mean is getting straight As.

Prospective and Current A-levels students are welcomed to post comments.

"official" A-Lvl thread

make it quick, taylor arguable as the most expensive..thats all.
inti might between all of them...

Generally what do you mean by which institution produces excellent scoring students? If you don't make the effort to study then you won't get good grades at all frankly.

This is my own opinion as a current A-Level student. Do you have any budget constraints? If none then follow then crowd and go to popular institutions like Taylors/Inti or the like. Anywhere will do as long you bother to make the effort.

What the above poster written is correct, Taylors have the highest fees currently for A Lvs. As for the lowest, AFAIK the lowest I've seen is RM5.8k or so for the full course excluding exam fees which are about RM1000+/- for 3 A level subjects.

Hi, I am very new to all this Pre-U things...

If I want to study Engineering, but I have never done Physics and Calculus in high school before; can I learn Physics and Calculus in Pre-U?

This post has been edited by Benjamin911: Dec 16 2007, 08:32 PM

well said..
thr is no such ting if the kolej produces high achievers, u wud be 1 of them..
its all up 2 u..

but u can take da following points in2 consideration...

1. taylors surrounded by mamak place, open/ public area..traffic n all..not tat u r studying on da road but just da environment is like tat..u must be able 2 control urself n manage between study n time-out..

2. inti is surrounded by land n long neva ending roads...if u can live in tat kinda environment..then just study laa...got entertainment..nt like subang area...

u can go 2 da places n have a look urself 2 decide ma

i took A level in taylor's 2 years ago. i chose taylor's bcuz it is the biggest Cambridge board centre in M'sia. experienced lecturers are there. topic tests are given at least once a month to make sure students will do constant work. it is a very good environment to study becuz most of the students there are "kia su". though the tuition fee is a bit more expensive, but worth it! according to counselors from some famous universities, taylor's produce better students. but this is stil depend on the students themselves.

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Added on December 17, 2007, 12:38 amwell...depends on which pre U u going to choose. as i know, A level pre engineering course (PE classes) will go very deep for math. 4 eg. further math which is not easy at all!!!!!!!!! if u don hav any basis, maybe u can cope but u have put twice effort. good luck

This post has been edited by pumpkinn: Dec 17 2007, 12:38 AM

There are lots of experienced lecturers at HELP too. Many of them were formerly from Taylor's. Those studying at TARC are also given monthly tests, if they fail, they will be barred from taking their AS. TARC has also a lot of kiasu students and the tuition fee is low.

So which are those famous universities that you are talking about?

People said that A'level is very tough.Then,anyone knows how many people in Malaysia score 5A(Maximum 5 subjects) in their final exam?

This post has been edited by Mengzz: Dec 17 2007, 12:41 PM

A level in HELP is the London board's. as my fren told me, those universities in UK will always prefer Cambridge board students especially for some professional courses like medicine and etc. TARC's A level do not provide certain subjects like thinking skills which is available in Taylor's. if im not mistaken, my fren who took A level in TARC told me, TARC don provide some compulsory subjects like malaysian studies and moral which are a MUST to complete them in order to grad in M'sia. taking these subjects in university is quite a waste of time.

Wrong on many counts.

Firstly, stop spewing nonsense if you don't know what is it like in the UK. If your friend told you that British universities prefer CIE, then he or she is talking rot. There are so many boards in the UK and many do not have any affiliation with Cambridge, the university or the exam board whatsoever. The largest board in the UK is AQA. CIE is not even present in the UK.

You can check the entry requirements for medicine at ALL British universities and you will NEVER find the slightest mention of a particular exam board from which the As must originate.

Who gives a hoot about thinking skills? It's nothing, offers are not based on thinking skills, but on the core subjects.

Malaysian studies and Moral studies are not required if you study in a government funded institution. If you took them during your A-level, and end up doing a twinning program locally, chances are high that you have to retake the same subjects for credits.

A student from TARC and a student from Taylor's, both did A-level and ended up in the same course in the same university in the UK. Who is the fool? One spent 20k to score AAA and took Moral and Malaysian studies while the other paid RM6k and took nothing extra.

This post has been edited by feynman: Dec 17 2007, 02:58 PM

Hey, hoping for advise from you guys...im planning to sign up for a college in the next few days ive been doing my research but it hardly helped me haha im torn between two colleges Sunway and Taylors im planning of going into the accouting or business field so doing my pre-u first and either AUSMAT or CIMP...or are those courses not good in the long term where entering unis might be a problem? Any pointers at all would be good thanks!

If i take biology, chemistry and mathematics for A-levels, can i pursue Medicine after that?
Or is it compulsory to take up physics and phsychology as well?

i went to TARC for my a-level before. Now doing masters in UKM after finished my Bachelor in Biomedicine at one of IPTS in malaysia.

One good news for SPM scorer who got 9As or 10As, the tuition fees for a-level course at TARC is FOC. Yeah, free of charge!!

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Added on December 18, 2007, 6:08 pmErmmm... why there isn't TARC in the poll?

This post has been edited by azmihamzah: Dec 18 2007, 06:08 PM

Entry into universities are based on Principal subjects. Even General Paper do not count as much as cores such as Mathematics, Physics, etc.

No idea, maybe people here are bandwagon jumpers and more inclined to follow the "taylor-and-HELP-is-the-best-because-they-advertise-on-the-papers-and-my-friends-tell-me-a-lot-about-it" mantra.

Agree with u somewhat...tho not about the last bit...

Usually for medicine, chemistry and physics combination will do, however if you want to take up biology and chemistry combo that will do as well as long you have chemistry.

Try to take at least 4 subjects if you can.