As usual the trouble maker is here again to preach prosperity Gospel what a dumb 🤔

No wonder UW still lurks in here still unrepentant those troublemakers

Bro

I have no problem with giving of monies to ensure the running of the church.
BUt I have do have the problem with the following

a) Using scriptural texts to justify the Levitical requirements of Tithing
b) Using tithing teachings to ensure the sheep feel guilty if they do not tithe
c) heretical teaching that by tithing, God will bless you 30, 60 and 100 fold
d) churches building huge expensive facilities of white washed tombs with the funds
e) partying
f) pastors wearing carnal expensive brands, driving expensive cars, living in huge expensive mansions, portraying the prosperity gospel
g) teaching heresies such as prosperity gospel, hyper grace, etc

i am all for

a) gospel missions
b) feeding the homeless, poor, etc
c) equipping the disciples

Do you refer to me?

If you want to think that way it's your thinking then but I'm saying the whole bunches of troublemakers here new and old

I have been nothing but polite in the few times I've been here

I don't even drop by more than once a month at the very most, certainly less than 10 times a year

And on this single, uncommon occasion I'm here trying to discuss something admittedly controversial, but politely, and I haven't even gotten in more than 2 posts on the subject before being labelled

And this passive aggressive bullshit is what I get. I would have expected it from the ranting sylar but certainly not from someone who had taken a stab at being thread moderator even previously.

So be it. Have a nice day.

prophetjul I was looking forward to a discussion of a better church financing model, but here we are. Some other time perhaps.

This post has been edited by KLthinker91: Aug 10 2019, 01:06 AM

Like I mentioned earlier I said trouble maker if you want to think your self as trouble maker it's your issue, I only mentioned that this thread if unmonitored it can becomes chaos due to troublemakers who is out to cause trouble

Why do you equate being rich with sinning?

How do you know they sinned to get rich?

How do you know they are still sinning?

How do you know the church is not addressing this?

I'm retiring from lowyat forums. Will need someone to take over this thread soon.

Same for me but I'm more like semi retired would login once in awhile but would really hardly be around anymore

I did not equate to rich with sinning.


I did not say they sinned to get rich. May be you are baiting huh?
But I have met many rich men in the church who have no second thoughts about joining in the corruption wagon to get rich.



I do not know if they are still sinning.




That was when they do not preach against the rich Chinese towkays who kept mistresses. Knowing that they do.

Christians and the Law

I just felt the need to share some understanding about the relationship between a Christian and the Law. It might be known to different people as the Old Covenant, or 10 commandments, or the books of Moses. So how do we wrap our heads around to understand the laws?

As a young Christian, I was always caught out when a non-believer asked me about the law. I wasn't properly equipped to defend my faith.

This is not a comprehensive study of all the laws and I'm not an old testament scholar of any sort, but I hope you will find this helpful in defending our faith.

I don't know how long this will go on for, but don't hesitate to ask any questions along the way.

What is the Law?
From the Jew's perspective, when they say the Law, it almost always mean the 5 books of Moses. (old testament = Tanakh : Torah, nebi'im, ketuvim, mean the laws, the prophets and the holy writings)

For the Christians, we understand the Laws differently. There are 613 laws in the 5 books of Moses, we divide them into 3 categories:

1) Moral law (the 10 commandments)
2) Civil law (the laws that dealt with Israel at that time)
3) Ceremonial law (the priesthood, blood sacrfice, feasts, festivals laws)

Introduction to the Laws
The Moral laws, or decalogue, or Old Covenant, or 10 commandments reveals the character of God and His standard of Holiness. It is meant to be eternal. Every commandment was repeated in the new testament (except for the Sabbath, more on this later)

Civil laws were derived from the 10 commandments by Moses, with instructions from God, to govern the lives of Israel at that time. Israel was under Theocracy, with God as the governor of that state. These laws were also meant to separate Israel from the pagan nations around them, making it extra hard for them to mingle together.

The ceremonial laws were set up to point people to the ultimate fulfilment in Christ. Think of the Passover, The feasts, the blood sacrifices of animals, they are all tied to the the gospel and salvation.

To be continued..

This post has been edited by thomasthai: Aug 16 2019, 12:57 PM

Part 2

The 10 Commandments

You will remember in Exodus 20, God called Moses up to mount Sinai to receive the 10 commandments. Therefore, these commandments are also sometimes called the Sinaitic covenant, or the Mosaic covenant.

To recap the commandments:


The sign of the Abrahamic covenant is circumcision, and the sign of the Mosaic covenant is the Sabbath, which is the 4th commandment in the 10.

One helpful way of viewing the commandments is to see how Jesus saw the law.



Keeping this in mind and look at the 10 commandments, the first 4 laws tells us how do we love God, commandments 5 to 10 tells us how to love our neighbours. The 10 commandments is basically the expansion of what Jesus said.

The rest of the laws of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy are expansions of the 10 commandments that God gave Moses to guide the lives of the Israelites, and we call them civil/judicial laws.

Part 3

Why the New Covenant

As Christians, we know that Jesus came to ratify the New Covenant with His blood.

I have always wondered, what is wrong with the Old Covenant? Why can't the Old Covenant save people? Why did God set up the Old in the first place? Were the Israelites saved by keeping the law? Do Christian have to keep the laws?

Let's see what Paul said about the law:

1) Does the law save?



From this passage alone, Paul says;
1) We were never meant to be justified by the Law
2) The law is a curse for people who try to keep it, because nobody can keep all the laws.
3) Mosaic law does not superseed the Abrahamic covenant of faith. Salvation has always been by believing in God and what He said (by faith)

2) if the Law does not save, what is the purpose of the law then?



1) The law was given because of sin. It shows us our sins, like a mirror, and a teacher, and drives us to Christ as it is the only way men can be saved. <till the Seed came> the Mosaic covenant finds it end when Christ came. God does not deal with Israel as a nation anymore.

2) Again, Paul says nobody can keep the law perfectly, or else Christ need not come to redeem men.




When Jesus said He came to fulfil the law and the prophets, what did He mean?

1) Jesus fulfilled all righteousness through obeying the moral laws.

2) He came as a fulfilment of all the ceremonial laws that was pointing to Him.

3) He came to bring salvation and do away dealing with Israel as a nation, doing away the civil laws. God now deals with individuals on a personal level.

This post has been edited by thomasthai: Aug 19 2019, 08:13 AM

Part 4

Just want to add a footnote here.

Until here, we know that before Jesus came to bring the new covenant good news, the Israelites thought that salvation was through obeying the law of the old covenant.

We know that this is the case because all Paul's arguments when it comes to the law was built on the arguments of law and faith

When it comes to the events of Acts, the beginning of the church age, we see that the signs and wonders were given by God to confirm His new message of salvation, because no Jew would believe the gospel if there were no miraculous signs.

Therefore, I believe that the signs and wonders served a purpose in history, that was to confirm to the Jews the new covenant message, and is not for all ages and all times of the church.

Plain reading of scriptures assume that.

The doctrines that pentecostals formed regarding the miraculous gift came from the narrative book of Acts and the Corinthian book of rebuke, with the assumption that what happened in the past must happen today.

Part 5

The Law of Sabbath



God commanded them to keep the Sabbath holy, and refrain from any work.

The Sabbath is the only law that is a-moral, meaning that there's no moral implication whether they work or not on the Sabbath.

So what is the meaning of the Sabbath for Christians?

You will remember that when God finished creation in 6 days, He rested (ceased) on the 7th, and blessed it. The Sabbath has its meaning tied to creation.

When God created the earth and everything in it, He declared them good. Everything was perfect in Eden. Adam didn't have to work before he fell into sin. He could just pick any fruit in the garden to eat.

Right after he sinned, he plunged the whole creation into sin. God cursed the land because of it, and He decreed that all men will have to work and toil the ground for food. Nothing is perfect since then. Paradise was lost by Adam.

The Sabbath was instituted in the Mosaic covenant as a promise that when the Messiah comes to establish the new covenant, everyone will find rest from the works of the law in Him.



The other fulfilment of the ultimate rest in Christ is that after He is done with sin, He will restore Paradise to the world.

All the passages of the prophets about desert will bloom (Isa 35), Isaiah 11, Romans 8, Revelation 22, etc points to this restoration by Christ when He comes the second time.

This is to reverse the curse of sin back in Genesis, and we can ultimately rest from all works and in Him. That is why Jesus is called the Second Adam. He came to do what Adam could not.

This post has been edited by thomasthai: Aug 19 2019, 10:31 AM

You are so wrong on the second Adam part. It's so funny.
But I will not even bother explaining to you. You probably cannot understand spiritual things because of your blindness.
Do you even understand what is the meaning of being born again? Yeah that's the clue on the second Adam. But you probably still will not get it.
The way you read the Bible is probably how the atheist read it anyway.
1 Corinthians 15
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

See. But then even after you have been proven wrong. You probably still will not repent. Because that's your nature.

Wonder why Satan still continue in his ways even though he knows his time is short? I have given you the clue here.

Lost people always never get it.

You even get rest wrong. But then reprobates like you do not fear God. Maybe another clue. What is the meaning of resting in God?
Hebrews 4
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

See. Your whole post is rubbish.

This post has been edited by TheRant: Aug 19 2019, 12:29 PM

More can be said about the law as the testimony of God.

IMHO, it is always missed by stressing its negative aspect (keeping it and its status as a concubine).

The Ten Commandments were called the testimony of God (Exo. 25:16). As the testimony of God the Ten Commandments are a picture, a portrait, of God. We may say that the law is a photograph of God, portrait of God in His divine attributes: love, light, holiness, and righteousness.

Because the law is God’s portrait, God’s image, it is called God’s testimony. The ark in which the law was placed was called the ark of the testimony (Exo. 25:22).

In typology, the law is a type of Christ. The law is a type of Christ because Christ is God’s image (Col. 1:15).

The primary function of the law is not to expose us (really) but to reveal God to us. After God brought His people into His presence to have fellowship with Him, to serve Him, to contact Him, to worship Him, and even to feast with Him, He made Himself known to them. Prior to this time, God had not revealed to His people what kind of God He is. In typology, to keep the law means to express God.

So, firstly, the law show us the kind of God He is. Second, to show we have absolutely no power and no way to fulfill the requirements. We are unable to fulfill the requirements of God, and there is no way we can fulfill them by ourselves; only He can fulfill them, and only He has a way to fulfill them. With man this is impossible, but with God it is possible. Only He can meet His requirements. This points to the third reason. He wants to be received into us, and by contacting and touching Him, we allow Him to fulfill His requirements within us and through us.

So, after exposing us, by His grace and according to His economy, He also gave His people the ceremonial section of His law, through which the breakers of the moral law of God, could contact Him and enter into Him to enjoy Him as their everything. God prepared the ceremonial law to be our salvation, to save us from the condemnation under the moral law. This is the picture in typology protrayed by the children of Israel, in which, we are as the reality.

The entire law of God was decreed to His people by Him with the intention to expose and convict His people by the moral section of His law, that they would be conducted to the ceremonial section of His law, that is, shadow of the spiritual things in Christ, which are the things to come.

No need to be so condescending. Why don't you just put their arguments here?

Pride goes before a fall.

Hi mr penguin,

The rest from Jesus has a double fulfilment, a spiritual fulfilment and and creation/paradise fulfilment

Have you ever wondered what these verses mean?







When Christ comes the second time, He will restore the paradise that Adam lost. The land will be so fertile like what was predicted by the prophets.

It's just mr penguin if you havent already realised that