Toot toot toot

We are all linked to the cornerstone unless I misunderstood it lol

Oh like what answers?

Interesting

Ah, to be simple is good. I will only caution that this simple statement that both salvation is by faith and works has its own depth. Don't just stand on the ice.

The definition of salvation is not only regeneration in the Bible. To argue works over the 1st step of God's salvation is just pointless.

For example, Paul in Rom 5:10 says:

For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son (salvation by faith), much more we will be saved in His life, having been reconciled,

There is the "much more" salvation; the FULL salvation - the organic saving by His life.

To bear fruits of the Spirit is to experience salvation. We were created to express God (image - Gen 1:26). But we are fallen and falls short of glory of God (God's expression). So, we experience God's full salvation to be filled with Christ to express Him.

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2nd .... throwing a wrench Are our good works merely ours then?

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jul 27 2018, 07:34 AM

Oh yoh .... it is not the word acting or cooperating ...

Rather, is it acting out of our human effort/flesh or cooperating/acting in God by/in/through faith

The difference is the source .... not the action

Er ... it's not that he did not act and do nothing

His flesh was his human attempt to acquire a son through Hagar. He tried to help God according to His own concept.

He should have believed God.

And later He "knew" <--- have sexual intercourse ... with Sarah ... it's not that He did nothing

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jul 27 2018, 04:31 PM

In a sense. YA At the end all the work is done by God. It was impossible for Sarah to be pregnant.

A combination of 3 things: Sarah's proposal, Hagar's expediency, and Abraham's exercise of the flesh to produce Ishmael.

It's like Abraham: pressured by God's promise and discussed with wife. Hagar seem like a good proposal... and FAST.

So, fast fast fast ... and not according to God's timing

Our flesh is like this ....

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jul 27 2018, 04:48 PM

Ultimately, you gained God and Christ. To gain God is to receive Him into us subjectively, that is, to let Him be our life and nature and to let Him mingle with us until He becomes our element.

We can't definitely. This is why there is a dependence on God. Through fellowship with God, we gain Him and touch Him. It is not about asking or seeking aid. Rather, did you gain God? At the same you realise that you are not.

*wink* You think waking alive and breathing is not according to God's sovereignty ? Even your hairs is counted

Originally, God's eternal purpose in the whole universe is of two aspects and one of them: 1) God desires to express Himself through a body of human beings (the manifestation of God in the flesh) as the matured sons of God; 2) (not relevant at this point). This is why at the beginning of the Bible we are told that God created man in His own image and gave man His dominion, the authority over all things (Gen. 1:26).

We were created as a vessel to contain Him (Romans 9:21 and 23) as our life and content. This is why when we pursue (contain) education, success, marriage, money, joy etc etc as itself... we are not satisfied within.

But man felled (due to Satan) and sin came in. This is where the problem evil is from. Man became selfish (not longer living for God) coupled with sinful nature produces trespasses -> all the sufferings and pain. The world became fallen too when the entire creation left God and were under a curse: natural disasters, sickness etc.

This is why we need salvation. The world groans for redemption (Romans 8:19-23).

Then, philosophically (not that I want to go into) .... could God actualise a world without man becoming fallen? Perhaps. But the nature of free will given by God will always bring in opposite choices. God does not want a creation full of "robots" that always make the right choices. You won't want to marry a robot.

Could God actualize a world where both Satan and man made the right choice. Perhaps. But what is the value? And we are finite human beings to see the long term.

The world where Christ is crucified (Revelation 13:8) is the best world where Satan could do his worst and God could still saved man to the uttermost. What a glory!

The God of resurrection and His life requires the hardest environment to be displayed and experience in its depth. God could saved man from the upmost nothing to become His masterpiece (Eph 2:10).

Today, we Asian chinese are saved so easily because of the sacrifices of past Western missionaries. What we enjoy today is labored by others in the past. Like, Paul, they experienced death so that resurrection life (they GAIN GOD) is flowed out. Many are martyred in the past so that we will enjoy the fruits today.

In this view, our sufferings today to gain God ..... how could we see 100 years from now, someone will gain the benefits or the fruits?

In principle, man is fallen that environments are needed (allowed by God) to invoke the consciousness of God.

Right now you are philosophising about the problem of evil and God ... because in principle you went through some environment.

Otherwise, you will never consider God ....

Hoho ... really need to see this how it is explained

To experience the abiding and bearing fruit (in action - you might go and bear fruit) requires a "spiritual reality" ...



Weird ... I could distinctly remember that I post something on this .... :/

This post has been edited by pehkay: Jul 31 2018, 12:46 PM

An unveiling to see the reality is definitely the first step

Why the or? Why not ... God's working in his own strength that brings forth blessing (as opposed to his own source)?

Like Paul: 2 Cor 2:17b - "... before God we speak in Christ."

Hey!

Oh you are Catholic? There is the other Catholic thread.

Yaloh ...

I think I can see where you are coming from and will stand with you only from a certain perspective.

Knowledge is absolutely different from light. Today believers need light. It is absurd for a child of God to have life but be without light (1 John 1:4).

The realization of sin is not a question of knowledge but a question of light shined on by God within us spiritually.

It is after we see (from the light) how utterly terrible we are that we will desire to live the divine life. We should not take the Lord’s word in Matthew 5 as a teaching concerning how we should behave. We are not able to imitate the Father. This way of behaving does not work. The Lord’s word was intended to touch our being and to expose what we are. When we have been exposed and subdued, we shall give the full opportunity to the divine life to live within us. This will make us perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect.

Now, if "no one is perfect" is just a maxim, a knowledge thrown about and even a kid can says this without any feeling to justify sinning. Then, I will agree ... it needs to be condemned

All I am saying, yes, we need to experience and claim the spiritual fact of being a son of God with all its riches .... but that can only happens once we are exposed by the light. It is a cycle. More light, more exposure, more cleansing, more enjoyment, then more light .... (1 John 1).