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 LYN Christian Fellowship V14 (Group)

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prophetjul
post Jul 17 2018, 09:03 AM

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QUOTE(thomasthai @ Jul 17 2018, 08:53 AM)
The plan of salvation through the line of Abraham was revealed in the Abrahamic covenant. And the covenant is Unconditional.

Let's fast forward to the 40 years in desert, where we have Moses preparing the Israelites to go into the promised land. It is said that 70% of the bible is the story of Israel. Maybe theres something in the story of Israel God wants to show us.
Here we have God telling Moses to record a song and teach it the generations of Israelites so the song will be a witness to God of the idolatry and wickness of the fathers to the future Israelites, all before they even apostatised.

God knew they were going to apostatised even before they have done it, so why did God chose the Israelites for this plan of salvation? Did God think that they will perform better than the gentiles?

Of course not. He chose them because He has predetermined to set His love on them, no other reasons. This is Sovereign Election again.

Sure enough, Israel subsequently apostasised for hundreds of years. Then we have God giving indictment after indictment in the books of the prophets.

We cant go through all of them, but I just want to point out a few verses to show the plan of the new covenant.
Can you count the number of "I will"s in all those prophecies regarding the new saving covenants? God will cause future Israel to repent, when He sends His Spirit to regenerate them.
This is an expansion of the Abrahamic covenant and the basis of the new saving covenant even to the gentiles.

The doctrine of election throughout the bible is deafening! Calvin couldnt have invented that even if he wanted to.

The bible is so clear when we understand the covenants. I hope you have been blessed by this.
*
Thomas

Nice exegesis. Israel replacement theology is a heresy.

Here is another passage on God's chosing of Israel


QUOTE
The LORD did not set His affection on you and choose you because you were more numerous than other peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples. But it was because the LORD loved you and kept the oath He swore to your forefathers that He brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt. Know therefore that the LORD your God is God; He is the faithful God, keeping His covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love Him and keep His commands.- Deut 7:7-9

prophetjul
post Jul 17 2018, 09:09 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jul 17 2018, 09:07 AM)
the Church can never replace Israel....I thought the in-grafted branch scripture is quite clear on that....
*
Many evangelicals claim replacement of Israel by the church.

That is the reason they claim the specific promises to Israel as their own. That is very wrong theology.
prophetjul
post Jul 17 2018, 09:23 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jul 17 2018, 09:13 AM)
Well God started off in Romans 11 with the context of "by no means!"

Romans 11:1-2
1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel:
That is in the new testament...I thought that should quench whatever argument.

Oh well....
*
Yes. I agree.

But for some people, Romans 9 to 11 do not exist. For them Romans is just a sin and justification epistle.


QUOTE
Replacement theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of replacement theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel. Among the different views of the relationship between the church and Israel are the church has replaced Israel (replacement theology), the church is an expansion of Israel (covenant theology), or the church is completely different and distinct from Israel (dispensationalism/premillennialism).

Replacement theology teaches that the church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian church, not in Israel. The prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are spiritualized or allegorized into promises of God’s blessing for the church. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2,000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1,900 years?




prophetjul
post Jul 17 2018, 09:33 AM

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Martin Luther maybe one too

Martin Luther articulated this position most eloquently when he wrote: “For such ruthless wrath of God is sufficient evidence that they [i.e., the Jewish people] assuredly have erred and gone astray. Even a child can comprehend this. For one dare not regard God as so cruel that he would punish his own people so long, so terrible, so unmercifully … Therefore this work of wrath is proof that the Jews, surely rejected by God, are no longer his people, and neither is he any longer their God” (“On the Jews and Their Lies,” Trans. Martin H. Bertram, in Luther’s Works [Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1971], p. 265)
prophetjul
post Jul 17 2018, 09:51 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jul 17 2018, 09:48 AM)
well, that escalate quickly
on the other extreme side, we have Zionism Christian.
*
Well

It's true. Modern Christians may not associate with Replacement theology directly.
But in their claims and practices, its replacement theology thinking.

Zionism Christian is a new term to me.
prophetjul
post Jul 17 2018, 10:06 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jul 17 2018, 10:02 AM)
well
I believe in only one convenient, the one written with blood of jesus. if one reject jesus then God will reject him. because jesus is only way to God.
*
Well.

Scriptures is more than about our salvation in Christ. There is also His-story and His future. That is just Christology.

Israel is God's fig tree. A tale tell of the signs of the times to come. God has put all these in His scriptures. Let's study it.
prophetjul
post Jul 17 2018, 10:10 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jul 17 2018, 10:08 AM)
you mean there is salvation other than christ?
*
Read properly before you jump the gun.
Christology. Prophecy. ALL part of scriptures. What is scripture for?

prophetjul
post Jul 17 2018, 10:16 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jul 17 2018, 10:12 AM)
I figure you talk about what left of Jews at end of time will believe in God and be saved
but currently at present time, I don't think it is happening, ie Jews all believe in jesus
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Well

There are Messianic Jews presently. So its happening.

However, at the end, national Israel will see Him as their Messiah

8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.
9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
prophetjul
post Jul 17 2018, 10:21 AM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jul 17 2018, 10:20 AM)
in other word, they are still rebellious against God at current stage and their heart is hardened
is that right?
*
Yeah

Lots of Jews do not accept Jesus as Messiah presently.
prophetjul
post Jul 17 2018, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(thomasthai @ Jul 17 2018, 11:19 AM)
Basically they consider it as 'do not brag about your salvation because it came from the "root"'
I guess during that time, the reformers were fighting the grace war with catholics. The focus wasnt there to properly develop eschatology I suppose?
*
Some how along the way of his reformation call, Luther went rather anti semitic, thus his book "“On the Jews and Their Lies,”
prophetjul
post Jul 25 2018, 08:53 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jul 25 2018, 08:46 AM)
Confessing to Victory


Romans 10:8 (NIV) - But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim:

Morning guys,

God has help me understand...the way we received Salvation is through the confession of our mouth...look at the verse below:

Romans 10:9-10 (NIV) -  9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Likewise, the power to reign in life is by the confession of our mouth hence Romans 10:10.

And how do we reign? Bible says in Romans 5:17 we reign by "receiving" (not banking on doing) abundant grace and of the gift of righteousness.

Today the Church has missed this teaching. We hardly confess anymore that we have been made righteous. And that is why we live defeated life as Christians. We are not confessing enough. We are trying to do more and to live right more but the Bible (God's way) tells us the way to change is NOT by might nor power but by God's Spirit and to access that is via faith through our confession.

I leave you with this nugget below, I believe We need to confess this verse below every few hours, everyday:

2 Corinthians 5:21 (NIV) - God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

God Bless


*
Think you have missed the other important part

Romans 10:9-10 (NIV) - 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

prophetjul
post Jul 25 2018, 10:05 AM

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Love Demands Action
Grace Demands Action
Faith Demands Action


16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform. nod.gif
prophetjul
post Jul 26 2018, 12:09 PM

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QUOTE(Haledoch @ Jul 26 2018, 09:04 AM)
Faith doesn't demand anything. Faith doesn't coerce, doesn't obligates, doesn't force, doesn't threaten - a person to do any work. Faith simply creates a desire, or a suggestion, that a person should do the right work. But our flesh also does the same thing. Often times, when faith suggest something that we should do, our flesh will suggest an opposing work. So we are always left with two choices, to follow the desire of faith or to follow the desire of flesh.

For example, when I see a man lying injured on a remote road, my faith will suggest me to help that man. But at the same time my flesh will also tell me to run away because my flesh will often provides a supporting logic as to why I should run away. Maybe that man is faking it, or maybe he is a bait, and there are some bandits hiding and waiting to ambush me while I am helping the man.

So this is the common battle between faith vs flesh in our conscience throughout our daily activities.

Most christians like me are more incline to follow the flesh rather than faith. If I am able to reach 100% obedience to faith, and 0% obedience to flesh, then I can say that I have killed the flesh, that I have murdered the flesh, just like what Paul said. And I live in the Spirit, through faith alone, because my faith is strong and ALIVE and not dead as James explain it clearly in his book. So we should always "work out" (or exercise) our faith, because if we don't, our faith will eventually become dead as it will always going to lose to the flesh if we have no bias towards it.
*
Faith demands Action.

What you have just discoursed on, is the flesh. That's does not preclude Faith demands Action.


Romans 4

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.


If Abraham just believed without ACTING, Isaaac would not have been born!

This post has been edited by prophetjul: Jul 26 2018, 12:09 PM
prophetjul
post Jul 30 2018, 03:53 PM

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QUOTE(Haledoch @ Jul 27 2018, 02:44 PM)
No, if Abraham just believed without acting, Ishamael would not have been born. And because Abraham added work to his faith (by sleeping with Hagar), which was a mistake, the Arabs were born.

When we think that faith demands action, we start to plan action that we consider or reason it as good to God. This is not necessarily true. What we consider as good work might not be considered good by God. Eve thought that eating the fruit of knowledge was good, but her reasoning was flawed, and so does all of us who thought we know what is considered good work.
*
Read the passage again.

It's NOT about Hagar. It's about Sarah and Isaac.


Romans 4

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
18 Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.
19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

If Abraham is convinced he was delusional, he would not have had sex with Sarah. If he did not do so, Isaac will not have been born. No?

Instead, Abraham has total faith in God's word and carried out his faith by having sex with Sarah so that Isaac could be born.

Clear enough on Faith demands Action? laugh.gif
prophetjul
post Jul 31 2018, 08:18 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jul 30 2018, 04:00 PM)
I wonder how does the wife feel? Her husband having sex with another woman and the wife ordered it.
*
Another case of the woman mis leading the man, in the same manner of Adam and Eve.

Reason why Paul forbids women to teach the men in the church.
prophetjul
post Jul 31 2018, 08:30 AM

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QUOTE(Haledoch @ Jul 30 2018, 07:38 PM)
So I am assuming you understand fully what you preach. Here is my question, do you think Jesus is a demanding God?

And, if I may ask another question, say we want to apply your theory in practical situations, what actions that a christian MUST DO for his faith?

I will humbly admit my knowledge regarding faith and action is quite limited. So I am learning right now as I ask.
*
Yes.

Jesus demands action. When He preached the Beatitudes, did He not mean them? ALL of those requires an ACTION or a REACTION.

Therefore

QUOTE
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.



And study the exposition of the Beatitudes Mat 5 to 7.


The thing is this. The Jews are not Greeks. They are oft taught by following the examples of the actions of their teachers and God.
The Greeks, where we get our education is different. It's more about creeds, philosophies. It's not about acting on them.

So in the scriptures, you will see that in all the faith circumstances, a reaction or action follows the faith reaching the heart.

QUOTE
Hebrews 11 King James Version (KJV)
11 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised.


QUOTE
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;


QUOTE
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets:

prophetjul
post Jul 31 2018, 08:43 AM

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QUOTE(unknown warrior @ Jul 31 2018, 08:37 AM)
You realize something? In the Hall of Faith (Hebrews 11) even though Abraham lied twice and Sarah laugh at God for doubting on the birth of Isaac, their flaws were not recorded but instead were given praise for their faith in God.
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Yes.

It shows God's grace and mercy upon sinners. We are by no means PERFECT on this side of life. Look at David. The personification of the imperfect believer!

Yet we should learn from their mistakes as well as their success.
prophetjul
post Jul 31 2018, 01:16 PM

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QUOTE(Haledoch @ Jul 31 2018, 11:43 AM)
In your faith demands action theory, what kind of action are you talking here? Man's work or God's work?

In John 15
5 I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.

Clearly Jesus said we cannot do any action without God. Basically it is God who is responsible for the action. Why do we want to take credit and strip God of His Glory by saying it is our action? God made the promise to Abraham that He would create Isaac, there was no condition from Him that He would fail if Abraham did not do anything. Even without men's contribution, God's Grace will still work.

So why then do you want to insist that Faith demands work, which can be elaborated as Faith demands God's work? Is it not like turning God into our servant?

What about Romans 4
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

That verse doesn't speak of Faith demands action, but rather Faith demands Trust. Yes, Jesus is a demanding God. But what He demands is not of our works, but us to trust Him, to lean on Him, and to let Him do the Work. It is never about our own work at all.
*
Of course, it is obeying God. Therefore it is God's work.

Action is not taking credit for God's work. Action is faith manifested. Without obeying actions, your faith is only a dead creed.

QUOTE
Romans 3

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

4 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.


These verses are about obeying the law to attain righteousness. We are not discussing about the law here.

prophetjul
post Jul 31 2018, 01:52 PM

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QUOTE(desmond2020 @ Jul 31 2018, 01:49 PM)
well, I see it as demonstration of god's perfection by the faith of crippled person. it can be said that work and faith is the two side of same coin. you cant separate good work from genuine faith
this is being plainly detailed by book of james.
no one think justification need work. but genuine and active faith must demonstrate good work / bear fruits.
*
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prophetjul
post Aug 9 2018, 08:53 AM

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Mark 2

And again he entered into Capernaum, after [some] days, and it was heard that he is in the house,
2 and immediately many were gathered together, so that there was no more room, not even at the door, and he was speaking to them the word.
3 And they come unto him, bringing a paralytic, borne by four,
4 and not being able to come near to him because of the multitude, they uncovered the roof where he was, and, having broken [it] up, they let down the couch on which the paralytic was lying,
5 and Jesus having seen their faith, saith to the paralytic, `Child, thy sins have been forgiven thee.'
6 And there were certain of the scribes there sitting, and reasoning in their hearts,
7 `Why doth this one thus speak evil words? who is able to forgive sins except one -- God?'
8 And immediately Jesus, having known in his spirit that they thus reason in themselves, said to them, `Why these things reason ye in your hearts?
9 which is easier, to say to the paralytic, The sins have been forgiven to thee? or to say, Rise, and take up thy couch, and walk?
10 `And, that ye may know that the Son of Man hath authority on the earth to forgive sins -- (he saith to the paralytic) --



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