Sorry im a qualified engineer. I make way more than Sebastian. And of coz any marketing like urself. No wonder u So worry about FC where i enjoying my rides.. Not keen to reduce my income whole train myself to be marketing guy like u whom have zero knowledge about car and only con ppl..
If you're really engineer, you won't be so free loitering around LYF spamming sales products. FYI, all engineers and technicians whether from automotive, aeronautical, mining, construction, machineries, etc are so tied up and busy with daily routine and they would rest after office hour or head to gym, cc, home etc. Looks like you're more like from sales. If you're engineer, that is like from modshop self declared engineer (mechanic in reality).
If you doubted that I'm lying, I encourage you to join either toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Hyundai or Kia as salesman to see for yourself their standard training guide on general technical and marketing talk, it's in the syllabus telling why VVT engines use timing chain for more responsive actuators. If you joined technical department, they'll tell you the same thing.
If you're better than Sebastian, you would have joined car company already, not selling mod parts in forum.
Thank you for using 1,000 words to describe a 2 word TECHNICAL TERM called TURBO LAG, something most FnF forumers are familiar with, especially those you called salesman.
You see, most ppl when they impatiently await the turbo to spool to maximum boost, they will frustratingly say
"damn the turbo lag is very bad!!"
and not
"damn my turbo activate so late!!"
except imbeciles who does not know how turbo works and thinks wastegate is a gate used to eject wasted air.
I like the way you backpedal from the nonsense about turbochargers with a valve at the intake plenum that "activates" the turbo, and blame it on wkc. It is almost an art. You should perform it more often, what with your quarter-bucket technical knowledge and all.
I shall keep your quote in my signature a while longer so that more forumers can enjoy your wisdom when they see me post.
If you're really engineer, you won't be so free loitering around LYF spamming sales products. FYI, all engineers and technicians whether from automotive, aeronautical, mining, construction, machineries, etc are so tied up and busy with daily routine and they would rest after office hour or head to gym, cc, home etc. Looks like you're more like from sales. If you're engineer, that is like from modshop self declared engineer (mechanic in reality).
If you doubted that I'm lying, I encourage you to join either toyota, Honda, Nissan, Mazda, Hyundai or Kia as salesman to see for yourself their standard training guide on general technical and marketing talk, it's in the syllabus telling why VVT engines use timing chain for more responsive actuators. If you joined technical department, they'll tell you the same thing.
If you're better than Sebastian, you would have joined car company already, not selling mod parts in forum.
Again say whatever u want on me.. Im a begger also never mind.. I want show ur bodohness only.. How is ur toyota enginner and their dvvt?
In non-technical term explanation for this situation on turbocharger effective rpm, for example you stand at a distance from a fan at speed 1, you won't feel the air. Press speed 2 you can feel air blowing towards you and speed 3 even far more air. This is the same thing on the turbocharger effective assist rpm. The preve 1.6T, from idle to 1999rpm, the impeller and compressor are spinning but not enough to draw in dense air into combustion chamber. Without dense air, less fuel is burned and there's no strong combustion that generates the high power and strength.
So you mean at 1999rpm, Preve 1.6T torque = 1.6NA right?
Even turbo spinning, but there is 0 boost added by turbo = 1.6NA.
Let's assume Peeve turbo add 0.5 bar boost. Meaning at 600rpm - 1999rpm intake = 1 bar from atmospheric pressure. At 2000rpm, it go from 1 bar to 1.5 bar?
Can you answer simple yes and no?
This post has been edited by constant_weight: Aug 5 2017, 09:11 AM
I know you feel damn hero/kungfu grandmaster seemingly defeating all that time (and also now), but hope you see how much you made a fool of yourself. We don't mind you show this thread to all your international contacts/engineers/technicians/automotive scientists/material scientist/etc. Bring them in to the discussion, let them beat the crap out of us with these type of "facts" that you are presenting.
Thank you for using 1,000 words to describe a 2 word TECHNICAL TERM called TURBO LAG, something most FnF forumers are familiar with, especially those you called salesman.
You see, most ppl when they impatiently await the turbo to spool to maximum boost, they will frustratingly say
"damn the turbo lag is very bad!!"
and not
"damn my turbo activate so late!!"
except imbeciles who does not know how turbo works and thinks wastegate is a gate used to eject wasted air.
I like the way you backpedal from the nonsense about turbochargers with a valve at the intake plenum that "activates" the turbo, and blame it on wkc. It is almost an art. You should perform it more often, what with your quarter-bucket technical knowledge and all.
I shall keep your quote in my signature a while longer so that more forumers can enjoy your wisdom when they see me post.
You always like my post back in AW and when I first came here.
wkc5657 doesn't know what is lag so I used the term no turbo-assist range. Since he loves fairy tale, I only told him true story of turbo modding from 80's that have optional Turbo activation separated by plenum. You press a switch, there's this VIS style valve in that plenum that will draws air into alternate route powered by turbocharger. Famous with few old sci-fi flicks back then. Original Mad Max supercharged Ford Falcon has this button to activate the supercharger, the few copies came with turbocharged version. The advantage of this, they can choose, when wanted to save fuel, no turbo. When racing time, turn on the valves.
Regarding “the turbo lag is very bad” this applies to lousy obsolete weak engine with real poor low end torque. Normally this applies to Ah Beng modified turbo and cars still stuck with old obsolete turbo that can't operate at low rpm. That's why Ah Beng always floor pedal hoping for the turbo to help the car move. The modified air intake failed to collect dense air at low rpm all because of the ade gaya xde mutu piping that replaced the original stock rubber plastic air intake that are bent and curved (for very important reason) connected to intake manifold.
Modern day cars with advanced engine provides good low-end torque with good FC even before turbo assist. Their turbo VGT or Twinscroll could assist early, don't feel like waiting at all. People don't feel much turbo lag in new cars that come with turbo.
@TitanRev you questioned my answer on wastegate earlier, this is the further explanation. 1) The wastegate valve, in fact, it does eject excess exhaust gas via its bypass passage that lets these excess exhaust gas out behind the turbocharger impeller. In physics gas flows from high to low pressure. When too much exhaust gas being released from exhaust valve, the impeller would become less efficient when the pressure in impeller too high. So the wastegate opens it's bypass valve letting the excess exhaust gas flow through bypass passage and come out behind the impeller. This would help create vacuum behind the impeller allowing the impeller to spin faster. 2) For large turbo, wastegate prevents the impeller from spinning compressor too fast so that it doesn't draw in too much oxygen from air intake and risk overheating that will result in cracked intake manifold. >> You notice prominent brand saloon cars that come with turbo, they don‘t have BOV. Ah Beng brain people immediately think of blow off valve releasing into outside when saw the word releasing excess exhaust gas. Fyi, wastegate is bypass passage only let's excess air skip going through turbo, the excess exhaust gas still come out of exhaust pipe after muffler.
This post has been edited by jayraptor: Aug 6 2017, 04:48 PM
So you mean at 1999rpm, Preve 1.6T torque = 1.6NA right?
Even turbo spinning, but there is 0 boost added by turbo = 1.6NA.
Let's assume Peeve turbo add 0.5 bar boost. Meaning at 600rpm - 1999rpm intake = 1 bar from atmospheric pressure. At 2000rpm, it go from 1 bar to 1.5 bar?
Can you answer simple yes and no?
If you're referring to turbocharger gauge reading, answer is no. I have mentioned number of times, the torque vs output chart in turbocharged cars are depicted like CVT gear ratio, not fixed.
I assume you know how the gauge and turbo boost work and have tested in real car. The Preve small basic primitive turbocharger is too weak to achieve the reading that you provided. It's turbo effective operating rpm at 2000rpm onwards which means the gauge reading should be 0.3 and would hit 0.5 after passing 3000rpm then surge all way up to 1.0. Preve turbo is tuned to light or mild type only.
If new generation small turbocharger like VGT or Twinscroll, the y could operate from low end thanks to retracted impeller able to boost 0.3 at 1500rpm, 0.5 at 1800rpm, 1.0 at 2100rpm, 1.3 at 3000rpm, 1.5 at 5000rpm.
I pity those Ah Beng modders with outdated turbo can only envy, jealous, and said their turbo better than new generation turbocharger that reduce lag further. If Volvo power pulse can eliminate lag when needed excess power from crawling speed. Yes, as per dares, those Ah Beng turbo always say turbo lag very bad.
This post has been edited by jayraptor: Aug 6 2017, 05:07 PM
I know you feel damn hero/kungfu grandmaster seemingly defeating all that time (and also now), but hope you see how much you made a fool of yourself. We don't mind you show this thread to all your international contacts/engineers/technicians/automotive scientists/material scientist/etc. Bring them in to the discussion, let them beat the crap out of us with these type of "facts" that you are presenting.
I would discourage car owners from modding their cars. Nothing dumb in the old thread that you brought up. Fyi, any automotive engineers will tell you the same thing, don't mod. Modding only sacrifice FC, speed up wear and tear, creates more pollution and subsequently affects resale value, void warranty and also overall satisfaction. If a person has a stock original car and a modded car, most likely he'll drive stock car to work. Why is that? If you want to talk about racing, fyi, most of the cars used for racing are ready to replace all technical parts after race finished. They don't think of wear and tear, high FC etc. These mods are just to help them pass finish line fast. If you're not the type that have money to scrap cars, then don't mod.
If you're referring to turbocharger gauge reading, answer is no. I have mentioned number of times, the torque vs output chart in turbocharged cars are depicted like CVT gear ratio, not fixed.
I assume you know how the gauge and turbo boost work and have tested in real car. The Preve small basic primitive turbocharger is too weak to achieve the reading that you provided. It's turbo effective operating rpm at 2000rpm onwards which means the gauge reading should be 0.3 and would hit 0.5 after passing 3000rpm then surge all way up to 1.0. Preve turbo is tuned to light or mild type only.
If new generation small turbocharger like VGT or Twinscroll, the y could operate from low end thanks to retracted impeller able to boost 0.3 at 1500rpm, 0.5 at 1800rpm, 1.0 at 2100rpm, 1.3 at 3000rpm, 1.5 at 5000rpm.
I pity those Ah Beng modders with outdated turbo can only envy, jealous, and said their turbo better than new generation turbocharger that reduce lag further. If Volvo power pulse can eliminate lag when needed excess power from crawling speed. Yes, as per dares, those Ah Beng turbo always say turbo lag very bad.
Hahaha... man, you can really tell story, but you don't know why.
First highlight point, no hard feeling bro, please respect people. You should act like an adult instead of finding opportunity to insult/humiliate people. Preve use small turbo, but not premitive. Again, I'm not even taking about your theory right or wrong yet, if you speak mandarin this is called 没口德 .
I must give you small credit that insisted torque chart is not fixed, but you don't know why. First let me repeat, on full wide open throttle, it is exactly like the torque chart of the modern small turbo with near flat torque like many others provided. On cruising constant speed, light throttle, it has barely boost even let say I'm cursing 140kph at 3000rpm. This is because boost level is not the function of rpm, it is directly proportional to the throttle position. Don't say I'm bias, I give you credit here, you are right that torque is not constant, when I'm on light throttle. I'm fair right? Right I said you are right.
Not fixed, but not for the reason you think. The example you quoted in second highlight is not how the modern small turbo works. On the heavily modified stage 3/stage 4 that strike for max horsepower, maybe. Not the small turbo. Let's say the torque chart put 250nm from 2000rpm - 5000rpm, and boost is 0.8 bar.
Case 1) I accelerate at wide open throttle from idling, it slowly increase from idling until it hit 0.8 bar, and wastegate started to control the boost at 0.8bar until 5000rpm. Flat, that't why it is flat. Our stock engine is not designed to withstand the keep increasing pressure.
Case 2) I'm cruising constant speed at 3000rpm, very light throttle at top gear, barely boost at all. Suddenly Civic TCP cucuk me, I floor my throttle and guess what? Turbo lag!!! Take time to reach 0.8 bar Please lah, this place have a lot of professional modder, racer here, you simply call people Ah Beng. Can you be respective or not?
One thing you absolutely right, I tested in a real turbo car. I own a failed Korean Hyundai Elantra Sport with basic primitive 1.6 T-GDI. Oh ya, not all twinscroll/VGT must be small turbo and not all small must be twinscroll/VGT, tell me what what turbo installed on the Civic 1.5 TCP? I'm sure you know.
If you kind enough to finish this video, it matches exactly the case 2 I described. Ok lah, I'm Google from "unverified" source, you can call me liar.
This post has been edited by constant_weight: Aug 6 2017, 08:48 PM
The Preve small basic primitive turbocharger is too weak to achieve the reading that you provided. It's turbo effective operating rpm at 2000rpm onwards which means the gauge reading should be 0.3 and would hit 0.5 after passing 3000rpm then surge all way up to 1.0. Preve turbo is tuned to light or mild type only.
hahahahaha primitive turbocharger.
QUOTE
In case you have never heard of the Borgwarner KP39 turbocharger unit, it is currently used in Ford's 3 consecutive International Engine of the Year award recipient, the 1.0l ecoboost.
It is also used in the 1.6l ecoboost engine found in the Fiesta ST, which churns out up to 200hp from the 1.6l 4 pot mill.
and coincidentally.....both use timing belt!! I guess Ford engineers also not as good as you!
Primitive lol....You really know nothing....
This post has been edited by dares: Aug 6 2017, 08:56 PM
You always like my post back in AW and when I first came here.
wkc5657 doesn't know what is lag so I used the term no turbo-assist range. Since he loves fairy tale, I only told him true story of turbo modding from 80's that have optional Turbo activation separated by plenum. You press a switch, there's this VIS style valve in that plenum that will draws air into alternate route powered by turbocharger. Famous with few old sci-fi flicks back then. Original Mad Max supercharged Ford Falcon has this button to activate the supercharger, the few copies came with turbocharged version. The advantage of this, they can choose, when wanted to save fuel, no turbo. When racing time, turn on the valves.
Sure or not wkc5657 doesn't know what is lag so you had to dumb down the explanation for him?
hahahahaha primitive turbocharger. In case you have never heard of the Borgwarner KP39 turbocharger unit, it is currently used in Ford's 3 consecutive International Engine of the Year award recipient, the 1.0l ecoboost.
It is also used in the 1.6l ecoboost engine found in the Fiesta ST, which churns out up to 200hp from the 1.6l 4 pot mill.
and coincidentally.....both use timing belt!! I guess Ford engineers also not as good as you!
Primitive lol....You really know nothing....
Must be new turbo design by toyota engineer Oh ya.. He cant show as his engineer fren tunjuk him only.. Takkan go copy at ppl laptop meh.. I mean the primitive turbo
wkc5657 doesn't know what is lag so I used the term no turbo-assist range. Since he loves fairy tale, I only told him true story of turbo modding from 80's that have optional Turbo activation separated by plenum. You press a switch, there's this VIS style valve in that plenum that will draws air into alternate route powered by turbocharger. Famous with few old sci-fi flicks back then. Original Mad Max supercharged Ford Falcon has this button to activate the supercharger, the few copies came with turbocharged version. The advantage of this, they can choose, when wanted to save fuel, no turbo. When racing time, turn on the valves.
@TitanRev you questioned my answer on wastegate earlier, this is the further explanation. 1) The wastegate valve, in fact, it does eject excess exhaust gas via its bypass passage that lets these excess exhaust gas out behind the turbocharger impeller. In physics gas flows from high to low pressure. When too much exhaust gas being released from exhaust valve, the impeller would become less efficient when the pressure in impeller too high. So the wastegate opens it's bypass valve letting the excess exhaust gas flow through bypass passage and come out behind the impeller. This would help create vacuum behind the impeller allowing the impeller to spin faster. 2) For large turbo, wastegate prevents the impeller from spinning compressor too fast so that it doesn't draw in too much oxygen from air intake and risk overheating that will result in cracked intake manifold. >> You notice prominent brand saloon cars that come with turbo, they don‘t have BOV. Ah Beng brain people immediately think of blow off valve releasing into outside when saw the word releasing excess exhaust gas. Fyi, wastegate is bypass passage only let's excess air skip going through turbo, the excess exhaust gas still come out of exhaust pipe after muffler.
Erm......i really never heard of turbocharger needed a button or something to "activate' anywhere before new or old. The only application to activate boost is NOS/Meth injection where there really is a physical switch to activate.
Wakau, tembak sendiri again, your wastegate engineering really wasted. When wastegate activate, it means the turbocharger is already operating beyond the operating parameters as set in the ECU/turbocharger physical operational limit. Your air pressure physics is not really applicable here as when wastegate is open, the purpose is to prevent the impeller to spin any faster beyond the limit, not let it spin faster like you mentioned If really want to keep turning faster, no need to add wastegate, just a wasted part with another possible failure point.
And secondly, with electronic throttle control and also valve timing, no need to worry about too much air being sucked in as already regulated before reaching intake manifold
QUOTE(jayraptor @ Aug 6 2017, 05:17 PM)
I would discourage car owners from modding their cars. Nothing dumb in the old thread that you brought up. Fyi, any automotive engineers will tell you the same thing, don't mod. Modding only sacrifice FC, speed up wear and tear, creates more pollution and subsequently affects resale value, void warranty and also overall satisfaction. If a person has a stock original car and a modded car, most likely he'll drive stock car to work. Why is that? If you want to talk about racing, fyi, most of the cars used for racing are ready to replace all technical parts after race finished. They don't think of wear and tear, high FC etc. These mods are just to help them pass finish line fast. If you're not the type that have money to scrap cars, then don't mod.
When mod is properly done, it will perform and won't destroy the engine nor the parts. Please don't put in racing as it is a whole different ball game together. There's a large market for aftermarket mod parts is due to the demand to exploit the "slack" that OEM put it to cover all bases (bad fuel quality/dirty air/harsh climate/traffic condition/etc). That means, there is always room for improvement.
An extreme case would be how lotus does to improve the toyota engine blocks. Yes, they have large engineering resources, but aftermarket mainly aims to achieve partially that kind of improvement.
And by the way, that link to the old thread was meant to remind that this wrong turbo talk of yours has been there years ago and you didn't improve your understanding. Again, further years down the road, if you don't further your understanding, the same argument will still occur, might not be from us, but a different group of people. Engineering facts are facts, they can't run away unless it is a whole new concept.
Erm......i really never heard of turbocharger needed a button or something to "activate' anywhere before new or old. The only application to activate boost is NOS/Meth injection where there really is a physical switch to activate.
Wakau, tembak sendiri again, your wastegate engineering really wasted. When wastegate activate, it means the turbocharger is already operating beyond the operating parameters as set in the ECU/turbocharger physical operational limit. Your air pressure physics is not really applicable here as when wastegate is open, the purpose is to prevent the impeller to spin any faster beyond the limit, not let it spin faster like you mentioned If really want to keep turning faster, no need to add wastegate, just a wasted part with another possible failure point.
And secondly, with electronic throttle control and also valve timing, no need to worry about too much air being sucked in as already regulated before reaching intake manifold When mod is properly done, it will perform and won't destroy the engine nor the parts. Please don't put in racing as it is a whole different ball game together. There's a large market for aftermarket mod parts is due to the demand to exploit the "slack" that OEM put it to cover all bases (bad fuel quality/dirty air/harsh climate/traffic condition/etc). That means, there is always room for improvement.
An extreme case would be how lotus does to improve the toyota engine blocks. Yes, they have large engineering resources, but aftermarket mainly aims to achieve partially that kind of improvement.
And by the way, that link to the old thread was meant to remind that this wrong turbo talk of yours has been there years ago and you didn't improve your understanding. Again, further years down the road, if you don't further your understanding, the same argument will still occur, might not be from us, but a different group of people. Engineering facts are facts, they can't run away unless it is a whole new concept.
he didnt know that .. the engineer have to work within something call BUDGET ...
he didnt know that .. the engineer have to work within something call BUDGET ...
and something call deadline....
Yes, we know toyota got damn lot of resources, but still manage to train "technical" people to explain VVT slipping....
The fact of me really slipping on the floor is exponentially higher than a timing belt slipping. Buta buta mistaken aircond belt slipping as timing belt slipping...yeah great wor.....
This post has been edited by wkc5657: Aug 7 2017, 10:05 AM
Must be new turbo design by toyota engineer Oh ya.. He cant show as his engineer fren tunjuk him only.. Takkan go copy at ppl laptop meh.. I mean the primitive turbo
My car has BorgWarner K03. From same company, so I have primitive turbo also. So sad.
Must be new turbo design by toyota engineer Oh ya.. He cant show as his engineer fren tunjuk him only.. Takkan go copy at ppl laptop meh.. I mean the primitive turbo
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