I've been buying 4D whenever I see a rare Cerato since my friend told me I must be super lucky to see one. But I can see Cerato everyday on the way to work, I running out of money soon.
Civic is overwhelming on the road, no doubt. XV is doing good, not bad for Madza3 too. Salphy is extremely rare almost non-existance, even less than the bigger Teana. I think both Cerato and Selphy made the same huge mistake, tune the suspension all the way to the extreme soft side like magic carpet even softer than Toyota 2 generations back. Crap driving dynamic, no road feel, floaty highway ride. Passengers get carsick on long distance highway.
Talk about Toyota, I buy 4D every time seeing an Altis too. Thank god, it didn't give me trouble like Cerato.
You comment based on what you think? Stop tok kok la. Cerato is not like what you have described. You probably haven't been into one.
Ppl tok about optima GT in this thread you ppl want to slam kia just because you are toyota/honda fansi. Ppl like you tok kok so much even if kia win awards and more reliable you all still dont buy one.
Peace my friend, I just book the new Elantra Sport. Absolutely love it, the continental like firm ride is exactly what I'm looking for at this affordable price range.
I admit I'm extremely bias/allergy to soft suspension setup. I came from a Toyota fans family, I was growing up getting carsick at highway, and only learn now that the extra few swing after uneven road make a huge difference over long distance after I work and sit in friends/colleagues car and get to experience the different suspension setup.. Also imagine the family meh look when I announce I book the new Elantra Sport.
I think Forte is more firm and well balanced than Cerato. They changed the Cerato to too soft for my liking. You can disagree, again I'm bias and against soft ride from 30 over years of car sick phobia. I'll let my family experience the car sick free ride soon in my new Elantra Sport after so many years with Toyota. I think this should change their perspective a little bit, because car sick over long distance is a normal thing in the family, no one ever suspected the car. Aunty/Uncle only said hot lah, other passenger move too much lah, driver skill not good lah, bla bla bla.
I think Optima GT is a good start. If I'm in 180K-200K price range my options would be Optima GT, Subaru WRX, Volvo V40 T5.
Cerato is still base on last generation suspension setting, with Albert Biermann on board, I strongly believe it will get update in the next generation like the Elantra.
Haiz, jayraptor is right. Regret buying turbo car. My car turbo not only activated at high rpm, it is also subscribtion base! I have to go Maxis to buy Maxis One Hyundai Plan and put sim card in my ECU. Every month have to pay RM188 to use the turbo. I drove out of coverage then wastegate permanently open, no turbo! WTH is this???!!!
This post has been edited by constant_weight: Jul 21 2017, 03:39 PM
I am impressed at u guys, still can layan him until now.
This is the most entertaining soap drama after our country politic. Really appreciate everyone that layan him all this while, it made my day. Good laugh, my grumpy mood gone, and can't help myself to troll him a bit too.
1) you should check the size of gears in new conventional 6AT gearbox and old 90's 4AT gearbox before you come here and post crap.
2) p1 took only the chassis, not the whole lancer gt chassis complete with unibody.
3) Lexus doesn't lie, only Koreans do.
Vios dugong, you don't know that chassis is just the frame, you can adjust the wheels placement? Like sylphy g11, its chassis is modified out of sentra n16. That's why many toyota haters attacked dugong and present vios.
The turbocharger, I have not specify the layout, what do you based on to assume? You probably don't know what plenum, bypass mean? Go pop up your car on sale (that has turbo) bonnet then check the layout. The turbo actually has 1 spool in exhaust while another has an alternate hose branched out from air intake after the filter. If there's no valve there as per your claim, are you saying the air flows into 2 hoses after the filter?
Conventional AT planetary gears system is really not as straight forward as popping one gear in. Gears size relation with gear ratio is extremely complicated. Actually add one full planetary gear set give 2-3 additional gears (including reverse) depending on who control the sun gear, who control the ring gear, and if sun gear and ring gear move in same direction. Mind blowing stuff, go take a look.
Exhaust side and intake side of a turbocharger are completely isolated except one shaft for god sake. Air don't flow between both housing. Exhaust gas push the the turbo to spin from the moment engine start, it spin really fast at idling. Depending on the turbo 20,000 rpm is common at idle. Through the shaft, it spin the intake spool that act as a pump to push more air into the engine. Again since the idling. The so called "turbo activate" is not an physical switch on, it is merely a increase torque perception feels by the driver when the turbo spin faster enough (which translate to higher boost and higher torque). BOV or wastegate active then the driver lift of the throttle. With sudden resistance that block the high pressurized air from going into the cylinder, the back pressure goes back to the intake turbo side which significantly slow down the turbo speed and create excessive stress to the shaft connecting both side of the turbo. This will either break the shaft or the turbine blade. The solution is BOV either mechanically valve or electronics controlled like the Civic 1.5TC. BOV used to be dumping the air out to atmosphere, but in today strict environmental friendly way, we dump they back to the intake after the filter and before the intake side of turbocharger.
Yea, there is a valve, but the way you interpret how the valve function is completely off. I serious don't care your perspective toward Korean car, but please get the turbo working principle right.
Gosh, I guess I just joined the F&F political party.
This post has been edited by constant_weight: Jul 23 2017, 03:13 PM
Ehehehe....have to be fair to car sifu jay, this time point sidikit correction for you
Although diverter valve and blow off valve serve the same purpose, the way it works a bit different. Diverter valve will recirculate within the intake stream while blow off valve will kentut out the extra air pressure. Meaning blowoff won't recirculate back into intake, only diverter valve will.
PCV full name = positive crankcase ventilation
*saw your sig, does the korean fanboy point to me kah?? Add on :
He dictates his engineering and physics law and declares our blasphemy on those law
Just to make sure Prof Jay don't cofuse, BOV nowadays go back to after the air filter, but before the MAF. For environmental reason. By definition your are right blow off don't recirculate back to intake since it is before MAF.
We have to be extra careful later Prof Jay make big fuss of our "mistake", another 10 pages learning what is air filter from him.
case with turbo, at low rpm masuk bypass inlet, higher rpm masuk turbo inlet.
Everything you said seems to be ok until you mentioned this. Bro, wastegate is not just simple on/off trigger by engine rpm. It is a close loop control system by constantly reading input from boost sensor aka barometer. It serve to protect the mechanical components from over-stress, it can open at high rpm also when turbo pressure reach the limit set by manufacturer. Same thing at low rpm, it will close too when the engine start to let the turbo spin up. Even at engine idle it will spin up to an equilibrium point of very little or no boost.
When you lift off slightly at high rpm, wastegate go into work to regulate the pressure. When you lift of completely, intake side or cold side of the turbo get back pressure when the throttle butterfly close. Air has no where to go, this is when BOV come into the picture. Else hot side and cold side both pushing at opposite direction which slow down the turbo and create huge stress.
wastegate or blowoff or diverter all of them are pressure based. Your knowledge isn't as bad even though everyone making fun of you.
If you don't stubbornly believe to the 3 things below, I think you are pretty much doing good. 1) turbo deactivated/activated according to fixed rpm. 2) turbo not spinning at idle, only activate at specific starting rpm. 3) Turbo only get peak torque as random single point, just one specific rpm like the NA engine.
Turbo torque curve is really flat or near flat my friend in the range specified, not just one point.
Don't be stubborn already, don't need long talk of theory for this, please go test drive or do your torque test or put car on dyno yourself. You don't like Korean, you can try any German/American/Japanese modern turbo car.
Guys, I'm trying my best not to be sarcastic this round, but if he still living in his own world, I'm giving up. Just hope he refrain himself from spreading false information to the community about turbo on/off (activate/deactivate) like a switch.
I see you guys are really patients, maybe having fun too. It's been a pleasure.
Bro. Not to pick on you but again to correct your mistake. Turbo Inlet side only have 1 route which is through the compressor fin. There's no bypass on inlet side only on exhaust side. Inlet side you only have BOV or the BPV which functions when throttle is closed momentarily during shifting or throttle lift off. Other time it is closed or shut. When no boost the compressor fin will still turn but at a much lower speed. The compressor fin is driven by the impeller on the exhaust side so as engine RPM goes up the compressor speed gradually picks up and hence boost builds up gradually until it reach peak boost then the wastegate opens to maintain/hold the boost.
Just sharing from experience. No hard feelings
Been trying hard to tell him this in various way for the past few pages. I'm giving up.
BTW, I've been guessing one thing for long time. My guts tell me that RaceChip for turbo car more or less change the wastegate threshold of the pressure sensor in the programming to increase the boost pressure. I'm just guessing, if you can share your experience, I'm grateful. Thanks.
This post has been edited by constant_weight: Jul 24 2017, 11:01 PM
What was wrong with what he said? Below 1400rpm (or whatever the manufacturer spec), although it hasn't reach the designated boost, it start boosting. The moment you put your foot on gas paddle, the boost gradually build up. Once it hit the target pressure, ECU begin to regulate the boost pressure (high rpm bypass happens), maintain the boost at predefined pressure range, thus a relatively flat torque. For Optima GT this target boost level reach at 1400rpm, that's how this number come from. It is not Kia select 1400rpm to activate the turbo.
On the sport car that have strong mechanical components that can sustain higher boost, the boost regulation via wastegate/BOV etc comes at much later stage (high rpm bypass happens). Only in those performance car you see the torque continue to increase, and you get your beloved peak point. But can you claim turbo only activate at this peak?
Now did I twist any single of your word? You written yourself "fact" = "Same case with turbo, at low rpm masuk bypass inlet, higher rpm masuk turbo inlet.". So did you intentionally tell me this because I'm non tech savvy or I'm stupid?
QUOTE(jayraptor @ Jul 25 2017, 08:02 AM)
With @wkc5657, I treat him as non-tech savvy person since he claimed Optima GT and Elantra sport gets turbo assist from idling and below 1400rpm for Optima GT and 1500rpm for Elantra sport.
QUOTE(jayraptor @ Jul 24 2017, 08:59 PM)
Same case with turbo, at low rpm masuk bypass inlet, higher rpm masuk turbo inlet.
Such a drag race that lasts around 1 second, wonder how much ground covered?? 10 meters?
My car DCT won't allow me to up shift at 1400rpm in 4th gear even in manual mode. There is mechanism to prevent engine stall. 1 -> 2, maybe. I doubt 2 -> 3 is allowed, can try it out when free. However must press the gas paddle so lightly else gear 2 reach red line too fast.
Probably whichever car that have higher gear 2 or maybe gear 3 top speed will win. Both drivers struggle to up shift at 1400rpm, lol. This plug from sky hypothetical experiment not practical at all.
I think the ECU/programming prevents the driver lugging the engine, not engine stall.
For preventing engine stall under low speed, it can just disengage the gear/clutch. Oh well, I'm not the programmer so it can be either one, or both.
Maybe you are right, I didn't thought of the lugging situation.
The thing is the cars today are sophisticated, with electronic throttle control the ECU might gradually open the throttle when driver trying to lug the engine. There are many options with the modern electronics.
I also guessing, might be combination of all like you said. Won't pretend to know all.
U will regret later .. after mod , engine leak .. always need to check engine . then ur Resale value drop FC no good .. the car create a Lot of NOx and ur parents have to smell it during the journey ..
Proper performance mod = ah beng Cosmetic mod that looks performance = good mod
So go put giant wing, exaggerated camber wheel. No need to tune suspension also, body kit makes it looks low is more important.
In non-technical term explanation for this situation on turbocharger effective rpm, for example you stand at a distance from a fan at speed 1, you won't feel the air. Press speed 2 you can feel air blowing towards you and speed 3 even far more air. This is the same thing on the turbocharger effective assist rpm. The preve 1.6T, from idle to 1999rpm, the impeller and compressor are spinning but not enough to draw in dense air into combustion chamber. Without dense air, less fuel is burned and there's no strong combustion that generates the high power and strength.
So you mean at 1999rpm, Preve 1.6T torque = 1.6NA right?
Even turbo spinning, but there is 0 boost added by turbo = 1.6NA.
Let's assume Peeve turbo add 0.5 bar boost. Meaning at 600rpm - 1999rpm intake = 1 bar from atmospheric pressure. At 2000rpm, it go from 1 bar to 1.5 bar?
Can you answer simple yes and no?
This post has been edited by constant_weight: Aug 5 2017, 09:11 AM
If you're referring to turbocharger gauge reading, answer is no. I have mentioned number of times, the torque vs output chart in turbocharged cars are depicted like CVT gear ratio, not fixed.
I assume you know how the gauge and turbo boost work and have tested in real car. The Preve small basic primitive turbocharger is too weak to achieve the reading that you provided. It's turbo effective operating rpm at 2000rpm onwards which means the gauge reading should be 0.3 and would hit 0.5 after passing 3000rpm then surge all way up to 1.0. Preve turbo is tuned to light or mild type only.
If new generation small turbocharger like VGT or Twinscroll, the y could operate from low end thanks to retracted impeller able to boost 0.3 at 1500rpm, 0.5 at 1800rpm, 1.0 at 2100rpm, 1.3 at 3000rpm, 1.5 at 5000rpm.
I pity those Ah Beng modders with outdated turbo can only envy, jealous, and said their turbo better than new generation turbocharger that reduce lag further. If Volvo power pulse can eliminate lag when needed excess power from crawling speed. Yes, as per dares, those Ah Beng turbo always say turbo lag very bad.
Hahaha... man, you can really tell story, but you don't know why.
First highlight point, no hard feeling bro, please respect people. You should act like an adult instead of finding opportunity to insult/humiliate people. Preve use small turbo, but not premitive. Again, I'm not even taking about your theory right or wrong yet, if you speak mandarin this is called 没口德 .
I must give you small credit that insisted torque chart is not fixed, but you don't know why. First let me repeat, on full wide open throttle, it is exactly like the torque chart of the modern small turbo with near flat torque like many others provided. On cruising constant speed, light throttle, it has barely boost even let say I'm cursing 140kph at 3000rpm. This is because boost level is not the function of rpm, it is directly proportional to the throttle position. Don't say I'm bias, I give you credit here, you are right that torque is not constant, when I'm on light throttle. I'm fair right? Right I said you are right.
Not fixed, but not for the reason you think. The example you quoted in second highlight is not how the modern small turbo works. On the heavily modified stage 3/stage 4 that strike for max horsepower, maybe. Not the small turbo. Let's say the torque chart put 250nm from 2000rpm - 5000rpm, and boost is 0.8 bar.
Case 1) I accelerate at wide open throttle from idling, it slowly increase from idling until it hit 0.8 bar, and wastegate started to control the boost at 0.8bar until 5000rpm. Flat, that't why it is flat. Our stock engine is not designed to withstand the keep increasing pressure.
Case 2) I'm cruising constant speed at 3000rpm, very light throttle at top gear, barely boost at all. Suddenly Civic TCP cucuk me, I floor my throttle and guess what? Turbo lag!!! Take time to reach 0.8 bar Please lah, this place have a lot of professional modder, racer here, you simply call people Ah Beng. Can you be respective or not?
One thing you absolutely right, I tested in a real turbo car. I own a failed Korean Hyundai Elantra Sport with basic primitive 1.6 T-GDI. Oh ya, not all twinscroll/VGT must be small turbo and not all small must be twinscroll/VGT, tell me what what turbo installed on the Civic 1.5 TCP? I'm sure you know.
If you kind enough to finish this video, it matches exactly the case 2 I described. Ok lah, I'm Google from "unverified" source, you can call me liar.
This post has been edited by constant_weight: Aug 6 2017, 08:48 PM
Must be new turbo design by toyota engineer Oh ya.. He cant show as his engineer fren tunjuk him only.. Takkan go copy at ppl laptop meh.. I mean the primitive turbo
My car has BorgWarner K03. From same company, so I have primitive turbo also. So sad.
As for this part: "If new generation small turbocharger like VGT or Twinscroll, the y could operate from low end thanks to retracted impeller able to boost 0.3 at 1500rpm, 0.5 at 1800rpm, 1.0 at 2100rpm, 1.3 at 3000rpm, 1.5 at 5000rpm. " >>> I'm surprised you haven't notice it was taken from the Elantra sport that you always said wanted to buy. I can post the reading so fast because my buddies with Japanese companies just completed evaluation not long ago, still fresh on my mind. Are you trying to say preve primitive turbo is no different from your Elantra sport VGT.
Bro, you haven't teach me lel. What turbo installed in Civic 1.5T hah? Don't forget bro.
Whoa, your Japanese strategist friend also Ah Beng, so fast mod the Elantra Sport already. First modded Elantra Sport in Malaysia man.
Stock ES boost to 10-13 psi only and cap this boost flat 1500 to 4500rpm. Wah, your Ah Beng Japanese strategist friends boost all the way to 1.5bar which is over 21psi. Somemore continuously to raise until 5000rpm. This is a monster man, how much power it made? I would have guess 280-300 mark with such high boost. At least 250 on the wheel when dyno like that. How much is the VGT and from which aftermarket brand? Response better than then stock BorgWarner K03 twinscroll? What other mod? Where they do ECU remap? Big gulp cold intake? High flow cat converter?
Wah, SD really should have hire your friend, really put money to mod competitors' car. Kudos to your Ah Beng Japanese strategist.
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