Every individual are borne free so there's no saying who brainwashed who. If a child is being "brainwashed" by the mother then the child has to owned up to his/her own decisions.

Exposure means equal opportunity in this sense. I am not going to advocate or instigate knowledge but share whenever curiosity is raised. I believed a child should be informed when he/she has the interests to learn. He/She has at all material time have enough opportunity to deliberate if it is the right decision. Besides, the child doesn't spent 100% of his/her time life growing up in the house, he/she socializes so yeah, that should give him/her sufficient exposure to what is needed.

I don't quite agree that the term "brainwashed" is used though, it implicates that it's bad. No religion is bad at its core (unless it's satanic or a cult). It's the people who preaches or practices it that makes it look bad, through human interpretation if you will.

Anyway, you are not set for life when you subscribed to a religion. You can easily fall out and fall into another religion if you feel that the new one is the right one for you. You are not going to be stoned for that.

To be honest, incense or no incense, it's just a symbolic ritual to ease the mind. What is most important is that you have treated the right party in the right way when he/she is alive then the right message is get across. What is the point of buying a 20feet tall incense and a RM5million paper house to be burnt just to show the world that you are filial? These are mostly to ease the guilty conscience.

Trust me, if you simply pick an auntie in this morning market and asked them "why incense", they will tell you "aiya, my parents do it before me so everyone should do it". To me, religion is simple and it must make sense while being rational.

If they don't understand the reason why they are doing a certain thing then they are believing blindly (ie. being a sheep).



Simple, it follows the deceased's wishes. You cannot send a Buddhist follower in the Christian manner.

You do your filial piety as a son while ensuring that your religion's restricted practice is observed. You can still pray (but without the incense), don't take part i the burning and let the spouse of the deceased do it (the surviving parent should understand the child).

I attended to my grandparent's funeral and by tradition, I have to wear blue as the grandson on the paternal side but I wore white instead. Nobody seems to have any issue on that. At the end of the day, it's NOT the people that will condemn you, it's your guilty conscience that condemn yourself because you constantly fear of the social repercussion of being "different".

There is no "disrespecting" the deceased parent when you have treated him/her during his living years in a very applaudable manner. What is the point of crying buckets during the funeral when you don't even return and have dinner with him/her when he/she calls you to?

Sounds a like a hypocrite, eh?

This post has been edited by shaniandras2787: Jun 21 2017, 10:30 AM

Note: I never say any religion is bad. just discuss human behaviour on religion and how it affect the family member and so on. I do not against any religion and believe all religion is brought good will but just human misused them to gain something.

interested to know what age, u bring or will bring your child to church?
including Christianity involvement function and blessing?

I would like to know your mean of how free you will give to ur child.
you would only able to give ur child Christianity exposure at home from born till he/she able to go out and mix with people.
This totally not equal opportunity already.

Note: below just an example,
If your child at 7 years old tells you, he wishes to join Muslim, will you allow? and what you will do?
if happen at 12 years old?
Will you brainwash him for no?


Note: Below is just a scenario, not referring to anyone.

for Chinese Taoism mix Chinese culture, spouse normally will not be involved in the funeral but is the son who settles all the ritual.
without all the proper ritual, they believe the dead will not have a good life in the underworld.

The elder son needs to carry the flower and buy water.

if the son doesn't practice it, wonder how the spouse will feel, if she also into Taoism.

See her husband fail to have a proper funeral, and she can't do anything, while the only son die die doesn't want to involve in the funeral ritual.

question is, you will involve in the complete ritual or die die still follow own religion guideline?

I would like to ask also since you say incense is just a symbolic to ease of mind, why Christianity do not allow it?

You say "burning all those an RM5million paper houses to be burnt just to show the world that you are filial", do this equal also to those go temple/church and so on also for filial? This totally 1 part of the culture believe while you condemn it as referring it to ease the guilty conscience.
Taoism believe the dead can receive it, while Christian beliefs, join Christian will go heaven. Same logic right?

There is always becoming a person grey area that they can't differentiate in between "Black, Grey, White".

Linkage of every element by the term of description. Well, get a higher education to explain as below with two different output in term of individual question and linkage question. On top of that with a logic answer and un-logical answer. End with by feeling answer.


Back to Basic:
What is Religion to you? how about others?
Do you priorities the religion in yourself? how about others?
Can you define the equality in between yourself and others? how about others?
Who are you if you are born from a rock like the monkey king but sadly you are not the monkey king which is just an ordinary human?
Etc etc....


PS: i can only see one thing, Love is Blind. No one can control. if you die die wan that fellow, you will go for it no matter what. Conflict been happened in every factor since we are not Perfect. Different point of view make people confuse with their own desire. Take the hardcore road or go for low risk boat.


Twenty Cent comment. by the naughty Monkey.

This post has been edited by lsthian: Jun 21 2017, 03:00 PM

I see so many cases happen around me, but all of them is female part is the Christian.
they first will try to convert their bf/husband to Christian. if fail, they just brainwash and ensure their child is Christian.
cause mother has more time with kids.
Slowly all the husband give up to prevent the argument.

<This is what Christianity call preaching, passing on in simplified way her belief and its part of the faith where you are suppose to pass on what you believe in. So its not a fault. You don't expect a mother to teach Buddhism or Islamic teaching to her child when her own faith is Christianity right? As for freedom of choice, then let the child grow up first before you dictate that. Same as your own household, you are expose to the faith of your parent first either the mother or father and its only at later stage of life you are able to choose or accept. As in Christianity there is further process for acceptance.. you are not bonded to it just because you started with it when you are a child. And God Bless if you accept it from a Christian point of view.>

I wonder how you give a true picture of everything? especially religion?

<This is a million dollar question, still being debated by religious scholar around the world>

if you are Christian, how much you know about buddhism, taoism, muslim and so on.

<This is up to individual, how much they are willing to learn of each other faith>

So you will bring them to all religion talk? bring them to monk, priest, imam or so on for them to have an experience?

<This put in a interesting perspective, as in all religion its more about faith compared to experience. And do you do the same, as normal you be only exposing yourself to your own faith which is not wrong. Maybe good for yourself to go to a few talk to get more experience?>

Actually, alot of parent very upset after their child converted to other religion and forbidden them to offer any incense when going ching ming.
You will hear a lot of those noises of complaining at morning wet market when those aunties talk about it.
They sure will not complain in front of you.

<Cannot blame them, as every parent or elder wanna have their child and such follow their way, same case also with Christianity. You also will hear complain from Christian parent that their Buddist child are not celebrating Christmas with them and not attending the funeral of the uncle that recently pass away as seem they need to pray instead of burning money for the uncle to use. This don't happened to Buddhist side only, just my 2 cents>

for Chinese Taoism mix Chinese culture, spouse normally will not be involved in the funeral but is the son who settles all the ritual.
without all the proper ritual, they believe the dead will not have a good life in the underworld. The elder son needs to carry the flower and buy water.
if the son doesn't practice it, wonder how the spouse will feel, if she also into Taoism. See her husband fail to have a proper funeral, and she can't do anything, while the only son die die doesn't want to involve in the funeral ritual. question is, you will involve in the complete ritual or die die still follow own religion guideline?
I would like to ask also since you say incense is just a symbolic to ease of mind, why Christianity do not allow it?
You say "burning all those an RM5million paper houses to be burnt just to show the world that you are filial", do this equal also to those go temple/church and so on also for filial? This totally 1 part of the culture believe while you condemn it as referring it to ease the guilty conscience.
Taoism believe the dead can receive it, while Christian beliefs, join Christian will go heaven. Same logic right?

<Question of faith, if the child are not in the same faith of the father - Taoism, and not doing the ritual as he don't believe in it, that is his choice. As this cannot be deem not filial as he can practice the ritual of his own faith as that would be cater as filial in the eye of his own faith. Incense is not a Christian practice, therefore most Christian wont do it. As for it being symbolic that also interpretation of faith. Dont think going to temple/church dictate filial as its a place of worship. Burning paper houses are a way to send things to the afterworld and it doesn't dictate filial as anyone can do that, not just the children. Christian believe in heaven and everything is prepared, no need to burn RM5mil house to be received in heaven>


This post has been edited by scsoo: Jun 21 2017, 04:02 PM

If only those believers has same taught like you. I same encountered like TS situation where one party insist to join Christianity. Which I told that all religion cores are good purposes just different way. But the mentality and understanding of one religion is not just "if u wanna date me you have to join my church"

Showing the path of the religion themselves rather than following what preacher or bible stated.

Not condemning religion but sometimes human just have to be human. Religion is important but not putting it in 1st place like what ppl said; I put my god 1st before me.

just my 2cent.

Ask her join Buddhism

Religion Core are good purposes, but the teaching from one another could be different as night and day, so there where belief come in. And those teaching came from different religion cannot be equated as same. Simple example, Christianity and Islamic don't believe in rebirth but Buddhism where atonement of sin are vastly different. Afterlife also vastly different, heaven and hell still there, but different.

Therefore if the path of the religion and what the preacher and bible stated is to have your other half embraces Christianity (yoke), then there is nothing wrong with "if you wanna date me you have to join my church" And in addition, the religion also say put God in front of everything, therefore cant blame her for putting this prerequisite for dating.

Religion cannot be classified as simple, there are more to it... all have different teaching that can differ from each other tremendously. Therefore cannot just say you do your way, I do my way. Of course things can be work out with tolerance, but if you are not ready to step into it, please don't.. there is always a girl with the same faith with you. Try to find her..

LET THE BRAINWASHING BEGIN!

GUIDE TO NOT GET BRAIN WASH:
1. True love doesn't request your partner to follow whatever the person wishes. So don't fall for such reason:
( If you love me you would go to church with me) (If you love me you would be converting the same religion as me)
If you notice this kind of conversation PUT A STOP SIGN! Remember TRUE LOVE doesn't request your partner to follow whatever the person wishes.

2. YOU JUST NEED ONE RULE! follow back rule 1.

3. If you Rule 1 and 2 fail, DUMP HER and move on~

4. EVERYONE has FREE WILL! if you're being forced to do something you don't want too with sweet word, STOP AND NOTICED THIS IS BRAINWASHING! return back to RULE 1.

5. TOXIC relationship, REALIZED! if your partner say such as if you don't convert he/she will leave you for another. STOP! and LET IT GO! its better to live your lives as a free person then being under some CULT! return back to RULE 1.

This post has been edited by JapanKid89: Jun 22 2017, 04:37 PM

Been in this situation...

Girl took me to her christian gathering.... inside they were talking about mixed religion relationship being bad la etc... crap... feels like I'm with a bunch of "mudah keliru" people...

I walked out and never looked back...

In this kind of situation, the guy always kalah one. In the end, he will be converted to Christian. End of story. Do no expect the girl to follow your religion.

BRAIN WASHER DETECTED!

Don't convert just because of someone

Don't lose your faith just because of others

Do the right thing TS

You are so blind in this
Try asking the other party to convert see how

Love is both side yo

No I see where is the root of madness.
I bet there is some similar lines in Quran.

And you two can fight till the world end.

i dont think it will works.
frm my exp, the girl would be really mind and want to find a bf which is christian too. lagi susah when goes to family.

Just to clear the air for you, my child will have the liberty to choose when he/she decides to go to church. It's their "calling", not mine. I wouldn't want to force them to attend to church unwillingly as that would amount to coercion. Forcing my child to do something which he/she doesn't understand the true nature would only push him/her further away from what is good. (eg: saving monies; it is almost nonsensical for a 12 year old to save up monies as opposed to spent them but when he/she reaches the age of 25 (?), he/she will understand the purposes hence appreciates the nature of the act).

God gave men free will and that is something that I can do.

Baptizing when my child is born is something that i will insist on doing but as Christians, we actually go through baptism twice. When you were born (if you were born into a Christian family) and another time when you reached the age of 18 years old. Whether he/she chooses to be baptized when he/she comes of age, it is her choice entirely.

You must view "exposure" holistically and subjectively rather than through a pinhole version. Equal exposure means knowledge. My interpretation of "exposure" in this sense would mean "feeding information" when requested. I will NOT* prevent my child from seeking knowledge. After all, you need to know what is bad to know what is good and bro, you don't need to actually go out and mix with people to gain "exposure" la, we live in a world there is internet.

There's a equilibrium that you need to reach, you cannot let go your child free-handed and let him/her do as he/she pleases as he/she may be lured into indecent/improper influences. The society is filled with scums.

Your hypothetical example makes no sense (although I do not negate the slightest possibility that it might happen). How can a child who is born into a Chinese family who adopts Christianity as a religion be swayed into converting to Islam? It is almost practically impossible and besides, we all know that Christian and Islam is almost like the tail of 2 ends. It's the "either this or that". Unlike other religions, from my current shallow (but sufficient) understanding of Christianity and Islam, they both actually bears resemblances to each other in many aspects but also have many vital irreconcilable differences between them and if my child can actually find a harmony between the both of them then I think my child may probably be the "2nd coming".

P/S: by the way, wrong terminology used. "Muslim" refers to people who adopts "Islam".

Theoretically, your concerns will only arise IF both parents disagreed to the child's adoption of other paternal religion but practically, not so much. Another situation is where either parents of the child passed away almost immediately after the conversion where the parents have no buffer time to accept the "new practice" of their child's religion.

Parents are perhaps the most forgivable and understanding individuals in the world. Given time, they would have accepted the way the child live their life and also respected it, being a Christian does not mean that you give up the tradition of a Chinese. You still attend to what a Chinese does (eg. Chinese Christians still celebrates Chinese New Year ). There is no bad blood between child and parents and even if the child chooses not to complete the entire "ritual", the child's presence in the funeral will suffice. Like I said above, an equilibrium needs to be achieved. At the end of the day, either parent will concede that it is something rather than nothing.

Just to refresh, I attended to my grandmother's funeral "ritual" but I wore just white rather than the "ritual-required" blue, I still bowed and pay my respect and that is it. At the end of the day, it is not the parent's feeling that I believe is the main concern, it is the worry of how your other relatives who has not adopted Christianity thinks about you. If you are not certain in what you are doing is right then you will definitely have the "Oh, my uncle viewed me as an unfilial son of a bitch". It matters not because at the end of the day, deep down you know that you have treated your parents rights and do them good. It is your own conscience and that your conscience that made your parents feel like they are proud of you. There is no point in embarking on a thousand steps journey and kneeling every 5 steps just to prove a point. The question is, can you deceased parent feel or see it?

About incense, let me fill in your ignorance.

If you were to spent some time reading about religions, you will understand why Christians does not allow symbolic rituals (see: Golden Calf). Briefly, Christians are about faith which means believing in what you cannot see.

Let me draw a real-life example for you, can you "see" the wind or can you "touch" the wind. The answer to both is "no". You can only "feel" the wind and by feeling, you believe in its existence. You perceive the existence of the wind through the effects it caused to another (eg: movement of the leaves on the tree).

Unfortunately, to your disappointment.. Christians going to church does not in any way equates to the act of burning paper houses. The glaring difference is where one is made in public and another is made in private. If you have Christian friends, you would know that Sunday services are for sermons, the original intention of services is for where pastors (who have gone into deep prayers) and seek the word of God through the interpretation of the Bible and then preaches them to other Christians so that we understand what God is trying to tell us because obviously, Jesus is not around anymore

Christians do not go to church because we want to go to heaven, we go to church because we want to live the life that God wanted us to live. We want to be close to God and that is all. Christians are already "saved" when he/she believes in God and accepted Him wholeheartedly as the "Savior". That is all. There is no "renewal fees" or "maintenance fees" to keep the "membership" alive, if commercial term gets to you easier.

Christians generally do not fear repercussions if they do not go to church because if they have fear then it's from the Satan. Probably in the old testament (before the coming of Christ) but thereafter, it's all about "Grace". God does not punished you with sickness because you missed one of the "Sunday Meetings", God does not punish you by making you choke while eating because you forgot to pray before your meal.

It is your choice to do all these. You do not lose out on anything if you refused or did not do the above, God will not forsake you once you have accepted Him but trust me on this one, if you try to get to know Him more and be close to Him, you will feel the positive vibe.

"Believe the dead can receive it"? One question that has intrigued me long time, so does Taoism believe in reincarnation or not?

This post has been edited by shaniandras2787: Jul 3 2017, 10:56 AM

everything you say is just a point of view from Christian.
you just using Christian logic to create those arguments.
you also just assume it with the Christian logic.
But what you say i totally agree as in Christian point of view.

But when i use other religion point of view, then different stories already.



reincarnation is not instant, no people know when or where.
so people still continue to burn it, do more better then do nothing.

Taoism funeral is a super super super complicated process, even majority taorism follower hardly can understand or get everything.
It involve whole family member and may involve extended family member (relative) as well.
Only when you understand some of the process and why is needed according to Taoism pratice, then only you will understand what i mean on those old people feel.

That the reason why alot of people say, when their son change religion is like married out son.
Cause they can't do alot of thing their parent expected them to do.
Sad but true.

just to highlight, for ur grandmum funeral, what u done is just pay respect but not a part of the ritual.
for christian point of view, is totally good and should pay respect in the funeral.
in Taoism point of view/believe, grandson do not follow the ritual, is like not respecting/helping the dead.

let me share you some stories,
my mother side grandpa just passed away last feb, just after cny.
i need to go back for the funeral,
even as i not carry the same surname grandson.
I cannot wash my hair for 3 days starting on the funeral date. Because this create bad to the dead. i forget what bad is it.
And many more thing cant do, cant really remember now.
this is the taoism believe.
My mother side grandmum cannot involve in the funeral at all.
All need to be done by my uncle.
If my uncle is not Taoism and other religion that cannot do all this.
Who going to handle the funeral?
Before he die, he already say, must have 1 day buddhism funeral, 2 days taorism funeral ceremony.
This is my grandpa last wish before last breath.,

This post has been edited by angelgemini: Jul 3 2017, 11:49 AM

I am a catholic... my mom married to my dad and my dad was a Buddhist... my dad remain his religion for like 10+ years till someday he himself wanna convert. No one force him but he himself wanna do it...

Same to me... I don't mind my future husband to be a catholic... he can be a Christian or Buddhist... I will stick to my religion....

If she can't accept u as Buddhist, better don't start a relationship

tak payah tukar nama..still makan vavi..still minum red juice
tak ada hal...

to be fair..
you should go to buddhist temple on SUnday...alternate lo bro..
and then who know ...maybe you will say buddhist not bad either hor

ah..you chose not to go while your wife choose to follow you to church on sunday.
so you staunch christian lo..