Yup. Directed to me. Let me balas back with this article. For those who still think time is not important, they must be kidding themselves.
http://investmentmoats.com/stock-market-co...-bear-market-2/

If this guy haven't DCA/average down, his average price would be worse.

The thing is it take guts to plough money into when the market you buy is at the top

I agree with you. Opportunity cost. Everything come with cost. Investing big during major bear market will give you extraordinary returns (if it work out to your favour).Investing a small amount during bear or bull market will never give anything significant. When a 60 year old uncle showed you his returns by being patient and bide his time you know he his right. No need to listen to hot blooded youths who want quick money.

Hahaha... We shall see. Talking cock am I? I have provided proof and links all these while to show my steps. I think enough proof and talk. Let my own results speaks.

In case you didn't notice, i took the following opportunity
- Sell down of reits after trump, pump in for manulife AP reits (this was a big drop)
- Pump in money during india "removal of currency"
- Pump in money into asia pacific when sell down after trump

If you still think waiting is a waste of time,
Those who bought citibank shares at USD1 during GFC would have made 6000% return. There's no fund in the world able to make that much.

If I am talking cock, still think I can provide all steps and how to invest in SG? Still think I will share all the articles if I am just talking cock? I have nothing to prove to anyone except myself as it's my money.

Moving little by little is still doing something rather than not doing anything and crying like a baby about it. Everyone start small. Remember that unless you have inherited a golden spoon then it's a different story.

In investing it's about being practical and logical. It's about preserving what you have (even if what I have is small). I have said. A 10% p.a returns in terms of rm and in 10% returns in terms of other currency (you can put in any country currency - THB, IDR also welcome when compare against RM) is big difference over a long term IF the RM drops at an annual rate of 1-2%. I don't diew myr. My approach is simple. Why do more work (generating more RM yourself) when I let something do the heavy lifting for me without puting in more work (no need for me to work for more RM).

Eg.
If one is sending kids overseas for edu, one needs more RM (remember in the newspaper parents suddenly need to cough up 20-30% extra for their kids education because of the RM?) Now where to find more RM? Work harder, get more stress, get more disease, Sell house. After sell house, sell what?
Now, compare with another person who invest overseas. No need hunt for more RM as maybe they just need like extra 5%?

In investing, the amount you topup matters. A topup of RM10k makes a lot of difference with a RM1000 topup. A 10% return is RM1000 and RM100 respectively.

And if you think it's penny wise pound foolish to invest small amount, then a 1-2% drop on a yearly basis gets compounded. Never underestimate the power of compounding.

I rest my case if you still don't get it. The point is you don't need to be HNWI to start (a lot of people think you need to a priority banking customer and only the rich can afford it) A small amount will do. The thing is get started.

This is not to scared anyone. Just a practical and logical point of view and yes I expect this post to get reported again

Looks like english, sounds like english, but it is greek to me... on head, no tail, jump here, jump there... can't see which view he is coming from or getting to.

Another gibberish waste-time-waste-space post to say he knows something that others are ignorance of.

Boleh tak saudara Ramjade tolong berikan hujah - hujah saudara dengan bernas dan secara ringkas? Pos ini panjang lebar seperti apek nyanuk melatah aje, kawan.

Tiba - tiba aku sangat terkenan dengan lagu Ronan Keating yang bertajuk, " You said it best, when you say nothin' at all" dari tahun 90'

Dengan seikhlas hati,
Kekanda Xuzen

wow, talk kok post also you check for factual facts!

Good thing you miss my 1,600% ROI in a previous post. LOL.

siu-sifu, just wanna ask is Mixed Asset means balanced fund?

what is the pro/cons of Mixed Asset?

thanks first.

This post has been edited by ironman16: Aug 19 2017, 06:31 PM

The drops in all 3 examples above were not exceed or even close to 20%. Y u pumped money leh? Not match ur theory worh.
The money u pumped in 3 events above should gave u 20% return by now. If u waited for 20% drops at those time, u loss 20% profit currently in ur pocket now.

It is so called opportunities cost, understand?

Boleh. Why not. Summary:
- Timing is important. If you buy in 2007 (height of bull market) vs buy in 2009 (max of bear market) your returns today is very different (if you don't chicken out and sell and just hold)

- Opportunity present itself once every few years. If you topup small amount, your gain is insignificant. If you topup big amount, your gain is very significant. Hence save up for this opportunity. Old people have shown their proof of waiting pays handsomely so why as young people we cannot wait?

- Our beloved RM is dropping 1-2% a year. Compound this over long time, the drop become significant. That's why a 10% return in RM terms is not the same with a 10% return if we use other currency (over few years).
Investing using RM at average 10%p.a (10/4/2008-13/8/2017)
Initial cost = RM10000
Final returns = RM28531.16

Investing using SGD at average 10% p a
(10/8/2008-13/8/2017)
Initial cost = SGD4341.88 (RM10k/2.30315)
Final returns = SGD12387.89 = RM39041.05 (SGD12387.89/3.15155)

Numbers don't lie.

- Because the RM drops, drops, parents sending kids overseas need to find more RM to pay. They may suddenly find themselves needing to fork out 20-30% extra (USD from 3.8-4.x). Now had the parent invest say using SGD to finance the kids edu, they need not need to fork out so much as the SGD really did appreciate againat the USD.
Eg. RM-USD (2008-2017) data is taken from XE.com
- 10/4/2008-> 13/8/2017
- 3.18990 becomes 4.29778
- 34% decrease vs the USD.
Eg. SGD-USD (2008-2017) data taken from XE.com
- 10/4/2008-> 13/8/2017
- 1.379 becomes 1.36438
- Holy!!! SGD appreciated 1.06% vs the USD.

Parents who funded kid's edu using RM need to earn/find more RM so that kid can remain in school. Where are they suddenly going to find extra 30%?

Now who need to work harder for their kids edu? Someone who earns RM from their investment or someone who earns SGD from their investment?

- You don't need to be HNWI to invest overseas. A small amount is enough to start.

- All platforms are provided by myself after through research. If I don't invest in SG, how do I know all those platform?

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END OF SUMMARY

Maybe time to be a silent reader???

on this..." just wanna ask is Mixed Asset means balanced fund?"
hope the below post is relevant
On this...."what is the pro/cons of Mixed Asset?"
googled and found this...hope it is relevant too.
Fund briefing: Mixed asset funds
https://www.moneywise.co.uk/funds/investing...xed-asset-funds

Pros and cons of multi-asset
https://www.ftadviser.com/2013/10/23/invest...4O/article.html

more in google...
https://www.google.com/search?q=pros+and+co...0.0.m8q5eotwsvw

You are totally dont understand what the unit trust is!
By investing ponzi 2 or nikko am spore equity etc , we r investing overseas, the investment r held as usd, sgd, hkd etc, not myr. Only we redeem, it will convert back to myr. Not only invest sgx, asx is called oversea investment.

Do u know we can buy diiferent currency (usd, sgd) class of particular fund in Fsm msia? For eg, Nikko am spore can be bought using myr, sgd or usd. The total asset of each currency class are the SAME everyday, every moment, the currency is just work as unit. 100cm, 1000mm, 1m are all the same.
If u bought using usd, u ll receive usd in ur foreign currency account when u sell ur unit.

This way is more simple than investing in overseas' stocks directly. Unless u think u have more knowledge n resource than fund house research team, then u can do buy directly urself lo.

Thanks , mama...

I agreed with this. You are investing overseas. But your base currency is still in RM. That's why I said a 10% return using RM is very different with a 10% return using other currency.

Xuzen did a test before.
TA Global Tech vs Henderson Global Tech. Henderson Global Tech won due to exchange difference even though henderson return is bit lesser than TA. Both same amount. Both backtested 3 years.

However when he did a test using RHB Asian income vs Schroder asian income fund, RHB asian income won on fund returns. Schroder lost because the return between RHB and schroder is too wide for the exchange to give it boost.

The situation above shows
1) a fund with more or less similar returns with the stronger currency will win.
2) exchange won't help much if the return difference is very big.

Hence, picking a fund overseas is much easier as
1) you can pick a fund which lags slightly (not much) behind the malaysia equivalent fund (case point henderson vs ta global tech) and still beat the malaysia fund
2) there are more choices available. Picking a fund with same or better returns than what's available in malaysia will definitely beat the malaysian fund (got such fund overseas? Got. Fidelity Global Tech > Henderson Global Tech > Ta Global tech). Results can be obtained from FSM SG chart tool.

Xuzen's example


For those who don't know, TA Global Tech feeds into Henderson and Rhb asian income feeds into Schroder Asian income. Both Henderson and Schroder are available in SG.

Of course if want to talk about Interpac, then different story.

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Aug 19 2017, 10:31 PM

So in the example above, is it better to invest in the non-myr class? What are the advantages and disadvantages of doing so considering that the RM is so weak?

The disadvantage is you lose out on exchange rate as you need to use RM and convert at bank's rate. I am not sure if FSM MY allows you to be paid into a foreign currency account for malaysian or not.

Case point:
See above eg.

At the end of the day, Exchange can only help you if
1) you have more funds to choose (hence you can choose a better fund than what FSM MY have)
2) the fund perform slightly below malaysian fund (which means you have more room to maneuver - able to pick a lower return fund and know that you still can beat funds available in FSM MY)

If you don't take advantage of the above, then exchange is useless.

If you are talking about funds on FSM MY, better to stick wirh RM funds so you won't lose out on the exchange.

If you are talking about SG UT, then SG UT offers more choices at better returns (exchange + performance)

This post has been edited by Ramjade: Aug 19 2017, 09:00 PM

Now we are getthing somewhere... I think you can see for yourself how incoherent was the previous post. And you have also given up to defence your 'wait till market crash before buying" and talking something else completely.

Yes, timing can be important in our purchases. But what you have shown is that there is an investor's returns which is different from fund's returns. The investor's returns as you had correctly said is depended on the time we make the purchase.

As for waiting for the right opportunity to invest and on compounding, you are mixing them and contradicting them against each other.

When you can foresee a better opportunity in the near future, of course you wait for it. So does everyone else.

The gist of this 'wait for market crash' discussion is that how can we foresee it. Who can tell when it will happen? And what will actually happen when the market dropped sharply 20 or 40%? If you read the article in the previous page, it was argued that a rebound is more likely to happen than a long recession (where the market will stay flat and move slowly downwards for a long time.)

By waiting for the right moment, you could be wasting a lot of time. An option to overcome it and not let time goes to waste is investing little by little, on a regular basis - ie. DCA method.

As we understood, compounding of interest works its magic over time. The DCA method of little-by-little over a long period of time recognise this compounding magic.

Your "If you topup small amount, your gain is insignificant..." is a misguided notion. When we are talking of returns, it is in terms of percentage growth. A x% growth on 1k, 10k or 100k is still the same x%. If the returns in dollar terms for a 1k or whatever it is, is too small and puny for you to bother to invest it, and wait till you have a larger amount, then it is fine with us.

You are waiting and saving for a larger amount of money before you begin your purchases. Nothing wrong, and everyone does it too. But if you are trying to say that you are waiting for the right moment... well, read back the above part on lost opportunities and compounding magic of doing it little by little.

Take s bit of time to think... hopefully you can see that in your previous posts, you were going in circles without giving a valid or reasonable opinion why it is better to wait for the right moment to invest and NOT begin as soon as possible where there is any spare money to start the purchases.

=============

BTW Compounding is about keeping the interest or dividend or returns in the initial principal sum of money. So that the next phase of growth or interest/dividends payment is on both the initial principal and interest/growth.

It is applicable on somethings like annualised returns - where it is referring to annuallised compounded growth. I have yet to see it is apply to forex and yet to hear people say "oh, this currency had a dropped of so-and-so compounded lost for the past 10 years."

Once again you have gone widely off tangent in the last part... which makes it difficult to counter since I have no idea what you are trying to say.

And for your info, a fund that is holding foreign equities, bonds, or whatnot that are listed in the stock exchange in that foreign country do have the risk of forex too, eventhough the fund is quoted in ringgit.

The only difference between the fund quoted in ringgit and in USD (or whatever currency) is that the ringgit fund has to convert the forex to get its unit price very business day.

Your notion that only funds in USD or Sing dollars or whatever currency can have forex growth when ringgit drops is misguided.

This post has been edited by j.passing.by: Aug 19 2017, 09:12 PM

Depend on u. For me, it is too troublesome buying into non myr class. U have to tt, and transfer that non myr to fsm msia foreign currency account, not using fpx.

Dont be mislead by others. Currency is just an unit. All currency class on a SAME fund r holding the SAME investment. 1m 100cm n 1000mm are all the same. I am talking about n comparing nikko am myr class, sgd class n usd class.

Cannot compare master fund by united in spore n feeder fund managed by rhb in malaysia. It is different things.

Question is what was your expectations when you bought it. If it is meeting your expectations or beyond, then why bother with other funds, be the other 4 winners or the 8 other losers.

That's was the point of my previous comment: you can show all the statistics that are in favour of ETFs with lower fees and whatnot, all the stats and figures becomes meaningless to me if the fund I am having is giving me my expected returns. (Read it also like nothng gained lohh...)

Unless of course, the stats jotted me from slumber and show that I was holding a real loser fund... which is not a likely event if I keep track of it and review it against other funds periodically.

And of course it is a boost to the ego when we happen to hold the fund giving the best returns... can show-show, brag-brag.



Past track record is everything... else the fund would not even make it onto the short list for consideration in making a purchase into it.

They means the same thing. It is mandated to hold a mixture of bonds, income securities and equites. In some of the older funds, the permissible ratio of bonds and equities is usually in the ratio of 40/60 to 60/40 or 30/70 to 70/30.

In some newer funds, the ratio can be from 2/98 to 98/2. (It can't sailang 100% into equities because it needs to have some liquid cash to run the fund.)

Having a balanced fund in a volatile market is good in that the fund manager is permissible to varies the equity portion accordingly. If the fund manager time and get it correct, then everythink is fine and good. But if he got it wrong...

Because of this flexibilty to adjust the ratio as the fund manager deems fit, some (if not most) people likes to do it on their own by having a mixture of equity and bond and money-market funds and do the adjustments themsleves.

Normally, for a beginner, if only one fund to hold, it will be an equity fund. Needless to say, greed and the want of fast money is the reason to have an equity fund over other types of funds. It is either go big, or go home.

============

The future's so bright, i gotta wear shades.

Yes, timing can be important in our purchases. But what you have shown is that there is an investor's returns which is different from fund's returns. The investor's returns as you had correctly said is depended on the time we make the purchase.
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How can that be different? Funds are still a basket of stocks. Take the article I mentioned. That fella went and buy STI ETF (unit trust and ETF are almost similar except one is actively managed, the other is not.) 2 months before the the meltdown begin. Had he not do anything, his returns would have been pathetic. But because he took the brace step by doing DCA manually, it brought down his average cost. A fund manager can't run and hide fully in cash.
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When you can foresee a better opportunity in the near future, of course you wait for it. So does everyone else.

The gist of this 'wait for market crash' discussion is that how can we foresee it. Who can tell when it will happen? And what will actually happen when the market dropped sharply 20 or 40%? If you read the article in the previous page, it was argued that a rebound is more likely to happen than a long recession (where the market will stay flat and move slowly downwards for a long time.)
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Not everyone will be ready for it. If everyone is ready for crash, there wouldn't be people panicking right? You don't see everyone scrambling for the same exit at te same time right? This time ETF will be tested as everyone is buying ETF so let's see how fast they can squeeze out of the door.

Precisely. Most likely will be a quick rebound. Hence one need to be prepared. But shit do happen. This around central banks would have run out of alternatives as
1) interest rate is already all time low
2) how much money can they be "printing"?

Why do you think US feds want to increase interest rate + stop QE?
The answer is so that they have the means to prepare for the next crash/downturn.
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By waiting for the right moment, you could be wasting a lot of time. An option to overcome it and not let time goes to waste is investing little by little, on a regular basis - ie. DCA method.

As we understood, compounding of interest works its magic over time. The DCA method of little-by-little over a long period of time recognise this compounding magic.
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Like I said. There's trade off. You can't get something if you don't sacrifice something. Is either you do DCA (Yes, I agree DCA works) or you just try timing the market. Yes one is wasting time and time - money, but don't forget the 10 year economy cycle is almost up. And we know if US/China sneeze, the world will catch a cold. US valuation right now is already expensive. Analyst graphs have already shown a similar pattern as in 2007 (people who use margins, VIX at low (well before this month), jobs level are same with 2007, increase in bad automobiles loans - all this from cnbc/bloomberg/etc).

Also, let's not forget, this time we have China who is walking a tight rope trying to reduce it's debts and economy growth. If China's debts become worse, well except the market to react badly.
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Your "If you topup small amount, your gain is insignificant..." is a misguided notion. When we are talking of returns, it is in terms of percentage growth. A x% growth on 1k, 10k or 100k is still the same x%. If the returns in dollar terms for a 1k or whatever it is, is too small and puny for you to bother to invest it, and wait till you have a larger amount, then it is fine with us.
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That's true A x% growth on 1k, 10k or 100k is still the same x%. Actually this is more for stock investing. Lesser for unit trust. A RM10k or whatever put into a bear market can generate 10%p.a dividends until it's sold off. 10% of RM10k = RM1k/year. Compare this with putting in RM1k and getting 10%p.a dividend which is only RM100.
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Take s bit of time to think... hopefully you can see that in your previous posts, you were going in circles without giving a valid or reasonable opinion why it is better to wait for the right moment to invest and NOT begin as soon as possible where there is any spare money to start the purchases.
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For this, I do not agree. Timing and time in the market is important. I have already showed my proofs and reasons why timing and time in the market is important. Timing = entering at right time. Time in the market = hold and not sell. This applies to both unit trust and stock investing.

Maybe I should give my reasons again why waiting for the right moment is better choice?
- You will get a boost in return (see eg investing at the height of bull market vs investing at it's depths)
- For stock investing, margin of safety + abnormally high dividends until you sell off the stock
- Real life examples of people who wait to buy and at it's depts
-> Createwealth8888
-> ASSI
-> Uncle Chua
-> Gen-X (if you follow his blog you will come across a graph he posted when he bought and when he "ran away")
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And for your info, a fund that is holding foreign equities, bonds, or whatnot that are listed in the stock exchange in that foreign country do have the risk of forex too, eventhough the fund is quoted in ringgit.

The only difference between the fund quoted in ringgit and in USD (or whatever currency) is that the ringgit fund has to convert the forex to get its unit price very business day.

Your notion that only funds in USD or Sing dollars or whatever currency can have forex growth when ringgit drops is misguided.
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Yes. There's forex risk. But when forex gain is one sided, the risk is almost gone as the other currency pair becomes more like a hedge/pseudo bond fund



Not necessarily a fund denominated in SGD can win a RM fund. Best if I demo this with xuzen's example.

parking at page 404

crystal ball prediction 404
summary 404

my gold and general finally gone back into black.
but making money also 404

Reading the 1st para already giving me cancer... sorry, can't bother to read further and decipher which is my words, which is yours.

If you want to further the discussion, make youself coherent first. Take some time to phrase your sentences that I can see what you are speaking about.

And without referring to some article which I have to read first to get what you are talking about. If you can't form any opinion out of the article, then it is a waste of time for me to read it too.

He chose to ignore this because he was caught out again. So why did you pump in again Ramjade? Was it 20% drop?

Curse MYR so much but end up living in Malaysia, had an education in Malaysia, probably gonna end up working in Malaysia, for what leh? Someone so kiamsiap like you probably won't even consider travelling, so why you need the strong currencies ah? To send your future children to overseas? But did you die when you graduated in Malaysia?

Ramjade even applauded those people who work in Sg, but stay in Johor, braving through the jam, reaching home late and what not. Not taking into consideration health, mental status and relationship? All about money only? Your SGD currencies can buy you health? As you know there are many healthcare professionals here and we do take this thinking as simply naive and stupid.

He was caught out with flawed calculations many times not sure why people still listen to his gibberish stuff. Aiya come back again when you actually have a significant net worth okay.