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Credit Cards Recommendation for Credit Cards V4, Please post according to Format stated

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ytan053
post May 12 2017, 11:38 AM

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QUOTE(diversity @ May 10 2017, 01:34 AM)
What's the best CC for insurance premium monthly payments? Thanks in advance
*
I have did an analysis on best suitable cc for insurance payment. It all depends on the (1) insurer (2) amount, (3) whether it can be paid via cc online or only auto debit option

(a) There are many insurance that you can pay online manually, i.e. Prudential (Visa/Master), AIA (Visa/Master), AXA (Visa/Master), Tokio Marine (through Maybank Amex only), Etiqa motor (Visa/ Master, not sure about Amex), HLA Insurance (Visa/ Master, not sure about Amex). I am not sure about other insurance but for Great Eastern, it can only be done via auto debit though Visa/ Master only.

(b) I would say the best cc for paying insurance for amount less than RM1,470 is Public Bank Visa Signature for insurance that you can pay online manually and not auto debit. PBVS offers max monthly RM50 for spending of RM833.33 (that is 6%). If your insurance is RM500, then u get the whole 6%. If your insurance is RM1,470, max monthly CB is RM50 which is equivalent to 3.4%.

© No.2 best cc is Maybank Amex for paying Tokio Marine insurance manually of up to RM1,000 a month to get CB of RM50 plus TP of 0.25% equivalent, meaning total CB is 5.25%. You can choose the amount yourself, unlike other insurance where you need to pay the premium in full.

(d) No.3 is HL Wise Gold (not the Platinum due to high AF) with CB @ 4.29% (if AF not waive, CB is lower now with higher AF) or 5% (if AF is waived). Refer to T&C of the card in the relevant thread. This card is good for paying insurance that either pay via online manually or auto debit. Every month, just spend Rm1,000 on the 3 categories that earns you the 10% cash back and if your insurance is around RM1,000, then you can either pay online or auto debit your insurance to this card to earn the equivalent CB. Hence max cash back is RM100 for spending of RM2,000 monthly.

(e) No. 4 is Standard Chartered Just One Platinum Card with monthly RM85 CB with insurance/ combination of insurance, petrol and online spending of RM2,500 a month, which is 3.4%CB. You can choose to pay the insurance online manually or via auto debit. This card is good to cover your insurance (one off) of up till RM13,168 where you get RM85 (equivalent to 0.65% CB).

(f) Any insurance above RM13,168, the next best card, assuming the AF for the respective CCs were waived, where you can pay your insurance online manually or via auto debit is:-
(i) OCBC World Master Card (CB of RM85.01, 0.65%)
(ii) Alliance Bank You:nique (CB of RM80.50, 0.61%)
(iii) Hong Leong Essential Card (CB of RM79.01, 0.6%)
(iv) OCBC 365 (CB of RM75, 0.54%)

*Didnt include HL Fortune in the analysis because you need to spend minimum RM2k a month to get the 1% CB, which I personally dont spend at least RM2k monthly for insurance for whole family.

Case study:-
(a) I need to pay RM500 insurance this month and it can be paid manually online - I would pay using PBVS to get 6%.

(b) I need to pay RM500 insurance this month and it can only be paid via auto debit - I would use OCBC World Master to get 1.2%CB / OCBC 365 to get 1.0% CB (Hong Leong Essential only gives 0.6%, Alliance Unique only gives 0.5%).

© I need to pay Tokio Marine insurance worth RM1,500 this month. I will pay RM1,000 via Maybank bill payment with Maybank Amex on weekend to get RM50 and another RM500 another month. Hence it is 6.25% equivalent of CB.

(d) I need to pay insurance of RM2,000, be it online or via auto debit this month. I will use Stand Chart Platinum and spend another RM500 on online/ petrol using the same card to achieve RM85 CB (3.4% CB).

(e) I need to pay 2 insurance worth RM2,500 (can be paid online) and RM1,000 (can only pay via auto debit) each this month. For the RM2,500, I would use Stand Chart Platinum CC to get RM85 (3.4%) and for the RM1,000, I would use OCBC World Master to get 1.2%CB / OCBC 365 to get 1.0% CB (Hong Leong Essential only gives 0.6%, Alliance Unique only gives 0.5%).

(f) I need to pay 2 insurance worth RM2,500 (can be paid online) and RM1,000 (can be paid online) each this month. For the RM2,500, I would use Stand Chart Platinum CC to get RM85 (3.4%) and for the RM1,000, I would use PBVS to get 6%CB.

(g) I need to pay insurance worth RM10,000 in this month (one off, only once a year) and this can be paid online and also can be paid via auto debit. Irregardless of the payment method, I can use Hong Leong Fortune (RM100 CB , 1% equivalent), which is higher than Stand Chart Platinum (RM85 CB), OCBC World Master (RM66 CB), OCBC 365 (RM55 CB), Hong Leong Essential (RM60 CB) and Alliance You:nique (RM71 CB).

This post has been edited by ytan053: May 12 2017, 12:07 PM
fly126
post May 12 2017, 12:08 PM

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QUOTE(ytan053 @ May 12 2017, 11:38 AM)
I have did an analysis on best suitable cc for insurance payment. It all depends on the (1) insurer (2) amount, (3) whether it can be paid via cc online or only auto debit option

(a) There are many insurance that you can pay online manually, i.e. Prudential (Visa/Master), AIA (Visa/Master), AXA (Visa/Master), Tokio Marine (through Maybank Amex only), Etiqa motor (Visa/ Master, not sure about Amex), HLA Insurance (Visa/ Master, not sure about Amex). I am not sure about other insurance but for Great Eastern, it can only be done via auto debit though Visa/ Master only.

(b) I would say the best cc for paying insurance for amount less than RM1,470 is Public Bank Visa Signature for insurance that you can pay online manually and not auto debit. PBVS offers max monthly RM50 for spending of RM833.33 (that is 6%). If your insurance is RM500, then u get the whole 6%. If your insurance is RM1,470, max monthly CB is RM50 which is equivalent to 3.4%.

© No.2 best cc is Maybank Amex for paying Tokio Marine insurance manually of up to RM1,000 a month to get CB of RM50 plus TP of 0.25% equivalent, meaning total CB is 5.25%. You can choose the amount yourself, unlike other insurance where you need to pay the premium in full.

(d) No.3 is HL Wise Gold (not the Platinum due to high AF) with CB @ 4.29% (if AF not waive, CB is lower now with higher AF) or 5% (if AF is waived). Refer to T&C of the card in the relevant thread. This card is good for paying insurance that either pay via online manually or auto debit. Every month, just spend Rm1,000 on the 3 categories that earns you the 10% cash back and if your insurance is around RM1,000, then you can either pay online or auto debit your insurance to this card to earn the equivalent CB. Hence max cash back is RM100 for spending of RM2,000 monthly.

(e) No. 4 is Standard Chartered Just One Platinum Card with monthly RM85 CB with insurance/ combination of insurance, petrol and online spending of RM2,500 a month, which is 3.4%CB. You can choose to pay the insurance online manually or via auto debit. This card is good to cover your insurance (one off) of up till RM13,168 where you get RM85 (equivalent to 0.65% CB).

(f) Any insurance above RM13,168, the next best card, assuming the AF for the respective CCs were waived, where you can pay your insurance online manually or via auto debit is:-
(i) OCBC World Master Card (CB of RM85.01, 0.65%)
(ii) Alliance Bank You:nique (CB of RM80.50, 0.61%)
(iii) Hong Leong Essential Card (CB of RM79.01, 0.6%)
(iv) OCBC 365 (CB of RM75, 0.54%)

*Didnt include HL Fortune in the analysis because you need to spend minimum RM2k a month to get the 1% CB, which I personally dont spend at least RM2k monthly for insurance for whole family.
*
Good Analysis... thumbup.gif

Lofiel
post May 12 2017, 06:00 PM

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Need recommendation of CB credit card mainly used for Auto billing, insurance

1. Annual Income: RM145k above

2. Free Lifetime Annual Fee: Preferably NO annual fee / call to cancel/ Min swipes

3. Card required for: Utilities Payment (Auto Debit), Insurance, Groceries, Online..

4. Existing credit cards (if any): Maybankard 2 Platinum, MBB Visa Ikhwan Petronas, PBB VS, AMMB WMC

5. Interested in CC from: SCB Just one Plat, OCBC Titanium, UOB YOLO, CIMB CR

6. Current monthly expenses around 1500-2000.. PBB VS not enough to cover
fly126
post May 12 2017, 06:12 PM

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QUOTE(Lofiel @ May 11 2017, 02:36 PM)
Hi, can recommend any cash back credit card eligible for utilities auto debit (Astro, TM, Maxis, Celcom, ...)?

1. Annual Income: RM145k above

2. Free Lifetime Annual Fee: Not necessary

3. Card required for: Utilities Payment (Auto Debit)

4. Existing credit cards (if any): Maybankard 2 Platinum, MBB Visa Ikhwan Petronas, PBB VS, AMMB WMC

5. Interested in CC from: any

6. Others: -
*
QUOTE(fly126 @ May 11 2017, 05:40 PM)
SCB Just One Plat.
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «


*
QUOTE(Lofiel @ May 12 2017, 06:00 PM)
Need recommendation of CB credit card mainly used for Auto billing, insurance

1. Annual Income: RM145k above

2. Free Lifetime Annual Fee: Preferably NO annual fee / call to cancel/ Min swipes

3. Card required for: Utilities Payment (Auto Debit), Insurance, Groceries, Online..

4. Existing credit cards (if any): Maybankard 2 Platinum, MBB Visa Ikhwan Petronas, PBB VS, AMMB WMC

5. Interested in CC from: SCB Just one Plat, OCBC Titanium, UOB YOLO, CIMB CR

6. Current monthly expenses around 1500-2000.. PBB VS not enough to cover
*
I have Replied You Earlier, pls Click on the Spoiler (Highlighted in Purple) blink.gif blink.gif blink.gif

This post has been edited by fly126: May 12 2017, 06:19 PM
JVLIEW
post May 12 2017, 07:22 PM

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QUOTE(fly126 @ May 12 2017, 10:43 AM)
Maybank 2 Cards - also Good on PTPTN
» Click to show Spoiler - click again to hide... «
Thank you. But I heard that Amex is not applicable to a lot of merchants right?
fly126
post May 12 2017, 08:07 PM

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QUOTE(JVLIEW @ May 12 2017, 07:22 PM)
Thank you. But I heard that Amex is not applicable to a lot of merchants right?
*
So far still acceptable, OK if u live in KL. Most of Online Store (the Ang-mo punya) eBay, Amazon, PayPal, Book Depository also Accept Amex.
U can pay your Billing with 2Amex via Maybank2U to earn CB as I also do the Same & Most of my CB are from Utilities Bill.


wca
post May 12 2017, 11:28 PM

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QUOTE(ytan053 @ May 12 2017, 11:38 AM)
I have did an analysis on best suitable cc for insurance payment. It all depends on the (1) insurer (2) amount, (3) whether it can be paid via cc online or only auto debit option

(a) There are many insurance that you can pay online manually, i.e. Prudential (Visa/Master), AIA (Visa/Master), AXA (Visa/Master), Tokio Marine (through Maybank Amex only), Etiqa motor (Visa/ Master, not sure about Amex), HLA Insurance (Visa/ Master, not sure about Amex). I am not sure about other insurance but for Great Eastern, it can only be done via auto debit though Visa/ Master only.

(b) I would say the best cc for paying insurance for amount less than RM1,470 is Public Bank Visa Signature for insurance that you can pay online manually and not auto debit. PBVS offers max monthly RM50 for spending of RM833.33 (that is 6%). If your insurance is RM500, then u get the whole 6%. If your insurance is RM1,470, max monthly CB is RM50 which is equivalent to 3.4%.

© No.2 best cc is Maybank Amex for paying Tokio Marine insurance manually of up to RM1,000 a month to get CB of RM50 plus TP of 0.25% equivalent, meaning total CB is 5.25%. You can choose the amount yourself, unlike other insurance where you need to pay the premium in full.

(d) No.3 is HL Wise Gold (not the Platinum due to high AF) with CB @ 4.29% (if AF not waive, CB is lower now with higher AF) or 5% (if AF is waived). Refer to T&C of the card in the relevant thread. This card is good for paying insurance that either pay via online manually or auto debit. Every month, just spend Rm1,000 on the 3 categories that earns you the 10% cash back and if your insurance is around RM1,000, then you can either pay online or auto debit your insurance to this card to earn the equivalent CB. Hence max cash back is RM100 for spending of RM2,000 monthly.

(e) No. 4 is Standard Chartered Just One Platinum Card with monthly RM85 CB with insurance/ combination of insurance, petrol and online spending of RM2,500 a month, which is 3.4%CB. You can choose to pay the insurance online manually or via auto debit. This card is good to cover your insurance (one off) of up till RM13,168 where you get RM85 (equivalent to 0.65% CB).

(f) Any insurance above RM13,168, the next best card, assuming the AF for the respective CCs were waived, where you can pay your insurance online manually or via auto debit is:-
(i) OCBC World Master Card (CB of RM85.01, 0.65%)
(ii) Alliance Bank You:nique (CB of RM80.50, 0.61%)
(iii) Hong Leong Essential Card (CB of RM79.01, 0.6%)
(iv) OCBC 365 (CB of RM75, 0.54%)

*Didnt include HL Fortune in the analysis because you need to spend minimum RM2k a month to get the 1% CB, which I personally dont spend at least RM2k monthly for insurance for whole family.

Case study:-
(a) I need to pay RM500 insurance this month and it can be paid manually online - I would pay using PBVS to get 6%.

(b) I need to pay RM500 insurance this month and it can only be paid via auto debit - I would use OCBC World Master to get 1.2%CB / OCBC 365 to get 1.0% CB (Hong Leong Essential only gives 0.6%, Alliance Unique only gives 0.5%).

© I need to pay Tokio Marine insurance worth RM1,500 this month. I will pay RM1,000 via Maybank bill payment with Maybank Amex on weekend to get RM50 and another RM500 another month. Hence it is 6.25% equivalent of CB.

(d) I need to pay insurance of RM2,000, be it online or via auto debit this month. I will use Stand Chart Platinum and spend another RM500 on online/ petrol using the same card to achieve RM85 CB (3.4% CB).

(e) I need to pay 2 insurance worth RM2,500 (can be paid online) and RM1,000 (can only pay via auto debit) each this month. For the RM2,500, I would use Stand Chart Platinum CC to get RM85 (3.4%) and for the RM1,000, I would use OCBC World Master to get 1.2%CB / OCBC 365 to get 1.0% CB (Hong Leong Essential only gives 0.6%, Alliance Unique only gives 0.5%).

(f) I need to pay 2 insurance worth RM2,500 (can be paid online) and RM1,000 (can be paid online) each this month. For the RM2,500, I would use Stand Chart Platinum CC to get RM85 (3.4%) and for the RM1,000, I would use PBVS to get 6%CB.

(g) I need to pay insurance worth RM10,000 in this month (one off, only once a year) and this can be paid online and also can be paid via auto debit. Irregardless of the payment method, I can use Hong Leong Fortune (RM100 CB , 1% equivalent), which is higher than Stand Chart Platinum (RM85 CB), OCBC World Master (RM66 CB), OCBC 365 (RM55 CB), Hong Leong Essential (RM60 CB) and Alliance You:nique (RM71 CB).
*
thumbsup.gif

how to pay AIA online?
JVLIEW
post May 13 2017, 01:46 AM

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[quote=fly126,May 12 2017, 08:07 PM]So far still acceptable, OK if u live in KL. Most of Online Store (the Ang-mo punya) eBay, Amazon, PayPal, Book Depository also Accept Amex.
U can pay your Billing with 2Amex via Maybank2U to earn CB as I also do the Same & Most of my CB are from Utilities Bill.
*

Hmm. Just went to their website. I noticed they've this American Express card too. Any difference with the 2 gold card? I'm sorry. I'm new to this. But why offer 2 cards? Most of my friend owning two cards only end up using one.

This post has been edited by JVLIEW: May 13 2017, 01:54 AM
fruitie
post May 13 2017, 02:01 AM

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QUOTE(JVLIEW @ May 13 2017, 01:46 AM)
Hmm. Just went to their website. I noticed they've this American Express card too. Any difference with the 2 gold card? I'm sorry. I'm new to this. But why offer 2 cards? Most of my friend owning two cards only end up using one.
*
Big difference. Standalone AmEx has no benefits. Just get the M2Cards and only use AmEx, the other one can lock in drawer.
Why offer two cards? Gotta ask Maybank then. It's actually Maybank expects us to use that Visa/MasterCard when AmEx is not accepted. However, since we know it has no benefits, then most of us just ignore it and use other banks' Visa/MC which are more useful.
JVLIEW
post May 13 2017, 08:34 AM

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QUOTE(fruitie @ May 13 2017, 02:01 AM)
Big difference. Standalone AmEx has no benefits. Just get the M2Cards and only use AmEx, the other one can lock in drawer.
Why offer two cards? Gotta ask Maybank then. It's actually Maybank expects us to use that Visa/MasterCard when AmEx is not accepted. However, since we know it has no benefits, then most of us just ignore it and use other banks' Visa/MC which are more useful.
*
I see. Thanks a lot on the explanation.
adele123
post May 14 2017, 10:54 PM

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QUOTE(wca @ May 12 2017, 11:28 PM)
thumbsup.gif

how to pay AIA online?
*
Aia website supports online payment. You would need to login though.
diversity
post May 15 2017, 08:39 AM

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QUOTE(ytan053 @ May 12 2017, 11:38 AM)
I have did an analysis on best suitable cc for insurance payment. It all depends on the (1) insurer (2) amount, (3) whether it can be paid via cc online or only auto debit option

(a) There are many insurance that you can pay online manually, i.e. Prudential (Visa/Master), AIA (Visa/Master), AXA (Visa/Master), Tokio Marine (through Maybank Amex only), Etiqa motor (Visa/ Master, not sure about Amex), HLA Insurance (Visa/ Master, not sure about Amex). I am not sure about other insurance but for Great Eastern, it can only be done via auto debit though Visa/ Master only.

(b) I would say the best cc for paying insurance for amount less than RM1,470 is Public Bank Visa Signature for insurance that you can pay online manually and not auto debit. PBVS offers max monthly RM50 for spending of RM833.33 (that is 6%). If your insurance is RM500, then u get the whole 6%. If your insurance is RM1,470, max monthly CB is RM50 which is equivalent to 3.4%.

© No.2 best cc is Maybank Amex for paying Tokio Marine insurance manually of up to RM1,000 a month to get CB of RM50 plus TP of 0.25% equivalent, meaning total CB is 5.25%. You can choose the amount yourself, unlike other insurance where you need to pay the premium in full.

(d) No.3 is HL Wise Gold (not the Platinum due to high AF) with CB @ 4.29% (if AF not waive, CB is lower now with higher AF) or 5% (if AF is waived). Refer to T&C of the card in the relevant thread. This card is good for paying insurance that either pay via online manually or auto debit. Every month, just spend Rm1,000 on the 3 categories that earns you the 10% cash back and if your insurance is around RM1,000, then you can either pay online or auto debit your insurance to this card to earn the equivalent CB. Hence max cash back is RM100 for spending of RM2,000 monthly.

(e) No. 4 is Standard Chartered Just One Platinum Card with monthly RM85 CB with insurance/ combination of insurance, petrol and online spending of RM2,500 a month, which is 3.4%CB. You can choose to pay the insurance online manually or via auto debit. This card is good to cover your insurance (one off) of up till RM13,168 where you get RM85 (equivalent to 0.65% CB).

(f) Any insurance above RM13,168, the next best card, assuming the AF for the respective CCs were waived, where you can pay your insurance online manually or via auto debit is:-
(i) OCBC World Master Card (CB of RM85.01, 0.65%)
(ii) Alliance Bank You:nique (CB of RM80.50, 0.61%)
(iii) Hong Leong Essential Card (CB of RM79.01, 0.6%)
(iv) OCBC 365 (CB of RM75, 0.54%)

*Didnt include HL Fortune in the analysis because you need to spend minimum RM2k a month to get the 1% CB, which I personally dont spend at least RM2k monthly for insurance for whole family.

Case study:-
(a) I need to pay RM500 insurance this month and it can be paid manually online - I would pay using PBVS to get 6%.

(b) I need to pay RM500 insurance this month and it can only be paid via auto debit - I would use OCBC World Master to get 1.2%CB / OCBC 365 to get 1.0% CB (Hong Leong Essential only gives 0.6%, Alliance Unique only gives 0.5%).

© I need to pay Tokio Marine insurance worth RM1,500 this month. I will pay RM1,000 via Maybank bill payment with Maybank Amex on weekend to get RM50 and another RM500 another month. Hence it is 6.25% equivalent of CB.

(d) I need to pay insurance of RM2,000, be it online or via auto debit this month. I will use Stand Chart Platinum and spend another RM500 on online/ petrol using the same card to achieve RM85 CB (3.4% CB).

(e) I need to pay 2 insurance worth RM2,500 (can be paid online) and RM1,000 (can only pay via auto debit) each this month. For the RM2,500, I would use Stand Chart Platinum CC to get RM85 (3.4%) and for the RM1,000, I would use OCBC World Master to get 1.2%CB / OCBC 365 to get 1.0% CB (Hong Leong Essential only gives 0.6%, Alliance Unique only gives 0.5%).

(f) I need to pay 2 insurance worth RM2,500 (can be paid online) and RM1,000 (can be paid online) each this month. For the RM2,500, I would use Stand Chart Platinum CC to get RM85 (3.4%) and for the RM1,000, I would use PBVS to get 6%CB.

(g) I need to pay insurance worth RM10,000 in this month (one off, only once a year) and this can be paid online and also can be paid via auto debit. Irregardless of the payment method, I can use Hong Leong Fortune (RM100 CB , 1% equivalent), which is higher than Stand Chart Platinum (RM85 CB), OCBC World Master (RM66 CB), OCBC 365 (RM55 CB), Hong Leong Essential (RM60 CB) and Alliance You:nique (RM71 CB).
*
you're amazing! thanks! thumbup.gif
Ramjade
post May 15 2017, 09:31 PM

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Which is the better card for paying bills online via Uobpayonline?
Cimb cashback/Public bank Quantum?
fruitie
post May 15 2017, 11:08 PM

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QUOTE(Ramjade @ May 15 2017, 09:31 PM)
Which is the better card for paying bills online via Uobpayonline?
Cimb cashback/Public bank Quantum?
*
PBB Quantum. CIMB CR gives no cash back for UOBPayOnline.
Ramjade
post May 15 2017, 11:10 PM

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QUOTE(fruitie @ May 15 2017, 11:08 PM)
PBB Quantum. CIMB CR gives no cash back for UOBPayOnline.
*
Alright thanks.
工藤新一
post May 16 2017, 02:49 PM

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UOB Preferred Platinum MasterCard is it much better than Hong Leong Wise card?

also 10% cash back

UOB Preferred Platinum MasterCard
Monthly cap - uncapped
Spend - any amount

Hong Leong Wise card
Monthly cap - RM100
Spend - RM2000
fly126
post May 16 2017, 03:03 PM

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QUOTE(工藤新一 @ May 16 2017, 02:49 PM)
UOB Preferred Platinum MasterCard is it much better than Hong Leong Wise card?

also 10% cash back

UOB Preferred Platinum MasterCard
Monthly cap - uncapped
Spend - any amount

Hong Leong Wise card
Monthly cap - RM100
Spend - RM2000
*
Huh 10% Cash Back on UOB Preferred Plat., Where you got this info....
http://www1.uob.com.my/personal/cards/cred...d_platinum.html
cybpsych
post May 16 2017, 04:26 PM

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QUOTE(fly126 @ May 16 2017, 03:03 PM)
Huh 10% Cash Back on UOB  Preferred Plat.,  Where you got this info....
http://www1.uob.com.my/personal/cards/cred...d_platinum.html
*
must be here kot hmm.gif

https://ringgitplus.com/en/credit-card/UOB-...MasterCard.html

doh.gif
fly126
post May 16 2017, 06:32 PM

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QUOTE(工藤新一 @ May 16 2017, 02:49 PM)
UOB Preferred Platinum MasterCard is it much better than Hong Leong Wise card?

also 10% cash back

UOB Preferred Platinum MasterCard
Monthly cap - uncapped
Spend - any amount

Hong Leong Wise card
Monthly cap - RM100
Spend - RM2000
*
QUOTE(fly126 @ May 16 2017, 03:03 PM)
Huh 10% Cash Back on UOB  Preferred Plat.,  Where you got this info....
http://www1.uob.com.my/personal/cards/cred...d_platinum.html
*
QUOTE(cybpsych @ May 16 2017, 04:26 PM)
https://uniservices1.uob.com.my/personal/ca...d_platinum.html

Past Tense already, Valid until 31 December 2014/15... yawn.gif rclxs0.gif whistling.gif
https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/3964961

This post has been edited by fly126: May 16 2017, 06:52 PM
cybpsych
post May 16 2017, 07:53 PM

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QUOTE(fly126 @ May 16 2017, 06:32 PM)
of course already expired. some sites out there are outdated, and users may get confused laugh.gif

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