What about automatic machines?
Can stretch my budget to rm3k
Coffee Lover v.2 Thread, Let's Share!
Coffee Lover v.2 Thread, Let's Share!
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Apr 26 2021, 05:58 PM
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#6761
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Junior Member
115 posts Joined: Aug 2020 |
What about automatic machines?
Can stretch my budget to rm3k |
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Apr 29 2021, 08:33 AM
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Senior Member
1,040 posts Joined: Apr 2005 |
QUOTE(eltaria @ Apr 11 2021, 07:30 AM) It's not that simple, as I keep saying, there is a sizeable community of us whereby they can't get a acceptable grinder, due to various valid reasons It's been a few weeks, and I'd like to add in some comments on how my experiment went.1) Kitchen space 2) Preparation and maintenance time 3) Cost, for the sake of discussion, let's agree that any grinders < RM 500 to be unsuitable for grinding consistently. I think you'll need a minimum ZD16 grinder? Around RM600. 4) There's a lot of users out there who is using subpar grinders, < RM 200 grinders out there. For those that fall into the above categories, we just need to work within the constraints of what's available to us, and I feel that's where pre-ground coffee by your roastery can be acceptable. I'm not talking about buying pre-ground from tesco etc... where their 'pre-ground' is not intended for expresso machines at all. Don't just keep saying must use grinder, must use grinder, as it may only encourage more people to buy subpar grinders, which I think we all should agree is worst for the end result. In my own research on this topic, my general idea to solve the problem for people like me is 1) Buy maybe 200g from a reputable roastery, preferably your own neighborhood roasters, tell them to grind for expresso machine. You get the benefit of customizable grind size, as you build the relationship with them 2) Ask them to take note of their 'extra fine' grind size, if they're experienced, their 'extra fine' should fall within +- 10% of your machine's, 3) Pull your shots, if it's over extracted (too fine) -0.x to 3g to your recipe. It's its under extracted +0.x to 3g to your recipe. 4) Repeat until you get a shot that's acceptable, (due to our constraints, we accept the tradeoff for time, cost, convenience against the perfect shots) 4a) If the +- of grams don't work, then you can +- temperature of your expresso machine, (if it's programmable) 5) Note down that their current grind setting is too fine or too coarse. 6) Go back to them to tune their grind a bit more for you the next batch of pre-ground. Rinse and repeat few packets, and eventually, you'll get to a point where, the pre-groud is good enough. While I appreciate and I do understand why we should grind, (I've used grinders before) there's just those of us who can't and we need to do the next best thing that's available to us, telling us we should grind our own, or how each pack of new beans need to be dialed in, that's not gonna work, or worst, it encourages subpar grinder purchases. I'll go ahead with my plans and see how it works out, if it does end up with an acceptable shot, this is something that I feel could really improve the experience for a lot out there, especially those that are currently grinding with subpar grinders (those ~RM 100 ish grinders that I see a lot is using) I got a bag of extra fine from SOL roastery, via shoppee 1st 3 of attempts was overly under extracted, as I was tampering too weak i believe. Getting 4 to 7 bars of pressure as i increased the dosage. 4th attempt, at 18g, I got about 8 pressure, and the flow is still quite fast, ended up with ~40g at around 15 seconds. 5th attempt, 1) 20g of coffee powder 2) Even tampering, with a leveling tool, and sufficient force of tamper. 3) Extraction time 23-26 seconds? I didn't really time it to the dot, as I wasn't expecting it to go well yet - Check 4) Pressure, ~9-10 bar of pressure using unfiltered portafilter/basket - Check 5) I got 41g of extraction, for my 1 to 2 ratio - Check. Mathematically, the expresso hits all the correct numbers. Moving on to the taste test, it's good. Not overly sour, body's good, not overly bitter and I can even get a lingering sweet '金' after taste to it, Crema's sufficiently there, the coffee could have been fresher admittedly, but that's my own problem as I only started brewing with the expresso machine couple of weeks after my pre ground has arrived. But by all means, it's actually a workable routine. If you're using those free grinders with your gemilai, or those < RM 300 grinders, going for pre ground coffee, from a roastery that freshly grinds and ship to you, is actually a much better experience and I encourage you all to try, don't get discouraged by those who say you must grind yourself, without understanding fully the grinders that you need to buy to be able to home grind, you will literally destroy your fresh precious costly coffee beans live with subpar grinders! You will 1) Save time from grinding your own beans, faster cleanup. 2) You will get a much better expresso shot, as you will get an even grind size across your entire pack, getting an even grind size is actually a more IMPORTANT variable vs how fresh your beans to grinding is. 3) You don't have to invest RM 600++ or over thousands for a grinder that will take up kitchen space and maintenance 4) Less coffee wastages, from dialing, throwing the 10g of coffee from the old settings. I'll add in a video/pictures later. This post has been edited by eltaria: Apr 29 2021, 09:57 AM /k/R1M liked this post
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May 1 2021, 06:37 PM
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#6763
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Junior Member
122 posts Joined: Jun 2013 |
hi guys, its a nice experience in exploring the coffee world. from dunno how to make perfect espresso shot, now im good with it. milk frothing also need some skill lol. now still in practice to make latte art. somehow making coffee using manual machine and manual steamer is enjoyable for me. i love the workflow eventhough its abit tired for some ppl.
btw Tesco sell Monnin syrup? i went to Giant recently, but theres no Monnin there. i want to buy the small bottle first to try all the flavours. or any recommendation for better syrup brand? |
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May 3 2021, 04:54 PM
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Senior Member
644 posts Joined: Aug 2005 |
QUOTE(eltaria @ Apr 29 2021, 08:33 AM) It's been a few weeks, and I'd like to add in some comments on how my experiment went. A few questions on your "Workable routine"I got a bag of extra fine from SOL roastery, via shoppee 1st 3 of attempts was overly under extracted, as I was tampering too weak i believe. Getting 4 to 7 bars of pressure as i increased the dosage. 4th attempt, at 18g, I got about 8 pressure, and the flow is still quite fast, ended up with ~40g at around 15 seconds. 5th attempt, 1) 20g of coffee powder 2) Even tampering, with a leveling tool, and sufficient force of tamper. 3) Extraction time 23-26 seconds? I didn't really time it to the dot, as I wasn't expecting it to go well yet - Check 4) Pressure, ~9-10 bar of pressure using unfiltered portafilter/basket - Check 5) I got 41g of extraction, for my 1 to 2 ratio - Check. Mathematically, the expresso hits all the correct numbers. Moving on to the taste test, it's good. Not overly sour, body's good, not overly bitter and I can even get a lingering sweet '金' after taste to it, Crema's sufficiently there, the coffee could have been fresher admittedly, but that's my own problem as I only started brewing with the expresso machine couple of weeks after my pre ground has arrived. But by all means, it's actually a workable routine. If you're using those free grinders with your gemilai, or those < RM 300 grinders, going for pre ground coffee, from a roastery that freshly grinds and ship to you, is actually a much better experience and I encourage you all to try, don't get discouraged by those who say you must grind yourself, without understanding fully the grinders that you need to buy to be able to home grind, you will literally destroy your fresh precious costly coffee beans live with subpar grinders! You will 1) Save time from grinding your own beans, faster cleanup. 2) You will get a much better expresso shot, as you will get an even grind size across your entire pack, getting an even grind size is actually a more IMPORTANT variable vs how fresh your beans to grinding is. 3) You don't have to invest RM 600++ or over thousands for a grinder that will take up kitchen space and maintenance 4) Less coffee wastages, from dialing, throwing the 10g of coffee from the old settings. I'll add in a video/pictures later. 1. How do you actually get "even grind size" if you purchase roasted beans online? Asking other shop to grind the beans for you? Are you sure they willing to help yo u to grind the beans other than their shop? 2. How many visits do you have to do to get the right grind size? Each bag of coffee beans are different. 3. How much time will you save for keep visiting the coffee shop to grind the beans for you VS grinding your own beans using espresso-capable grinder? When we talk about grinders, we don't simply recommend any subpar grinders. People will do homework/asking around here before simply buy any grinders. I would suggest you learn about espresso-capable handgrinders first before venture into electric-motor based. When we talk about espresso-capable grinders, we talking about: 1. Consistency on grind size at Espresso fine level 2. Able to dial-in for different type of beans which a very fine control 3. minimizing retention as possible If you do not want any grinders which wasting your kitchen space, and insist using on pre-ground coffee from the shop, go no further than Flair NEO. Flair NEO is specially designed for anyone who does not even bother to learn about grinders and prefer to use only the pre-ground coffee. Otherwise, the frustration of no grinder far outweigh the result of your espresso shot from a machine like gemilai 58mm. Still waiting your extraction videos from Gemilai machine. 4lt4ir liked this post
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May 3 2021, 06:32 PM
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Junior Member
88 posts Joined: Apr 2007 |
QUOTE(eltaria @ Apr 29 2021, 08:33 AM) It's been a few weeks, and I'd like to add in some comments on how my experiment went. I was also giving this post some thought, and similar to air I find some problems with this approach.I got a bag of extra fine from SOL roastery, via shoppee ..... In particular: - which roasted coffee bean suppliers grind to espresso levels? Most will not have this as an option as those who do espresso invariably have their own grinders. As such, doesn't in severely restrict your choices? IMHO part of the joy of home brewing (espresso or otherwise) is the huge range of beans available, processed in a myriad of ways, roasted by different roasters. If I could only brew beans coming from a limited source, not sure if it's worth it. - each filter basket is optimised for a limited dose size range. Put too much and the puck will hit the shower screen. Put too little and you will get a very high chance of channeling. What if after trying the full range you still can't get the backpressure you are looking for? Will you chuck the entire bag? - when grinding to espresso fineness, most grinders will generate a range of particle sizes. Good espresso grinders often are bimodal, generating a reasonable amount of fines. There is also some interest in unimodal grinders/burrsets, but they are even harder to find and please let me know if any cafe with unimodal burrs are willing to grind to espresso for you (near-unicorn in rarity). So if the grind does have a proportion of fines, how do you ensure each dose has a similar ratio/particle distribution? If you have a bag of 200g (let's say) your shots would differ almost shot to shot. Repeatability would be incredibly difficult to achieve. I hope anyone exploring espresso will seriously give hand grinders a consideration. They take up zero counterspace, take just a minute-ish to grind a dose, have truly zero retention, and and orders of magnitude quieter than motorised. Only if you routinely pull more than 2 shots back-to-back does motorised become more logical. Of course if you don't have budget restrictions then it would be a different story. IMHO it's better to save money on the espresso machine and to allocate some part to the grinder. Flairs cost less than a grand (ringgit) and pull exceptional, no-compromise espresso. But that's just me. 4lt4ir liked this post
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May 3 2021, 06:41 PM
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#6766
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Senior Member
1,609 posts Joined: Sep 2005 From: KL |
Pre-ground coffee – Once you grind your coffee beans, start the countdown! Ground coffee starts to lose its aromatic and flavor intensity after 30 minutes. This is why you should avoid buying pre-ground coffee as much as possible. Invest in a home coffee grinder for the freshest cup of coffee every time.
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May 3 2021, 07:49 PM
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Senior Member
6,230 posts Joined: Jun 2006 |
deleted...
same msg from above... This post has been edited by dwRK: May 3 2021, 07:50 PM |
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May 4 2021, 01:27 PM
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Probation
35 posts Joined: Aug 2020 |
Hi all, I am thinking on investing in a coffee machine. Currently looking at three options breville basrista touch(semi-auto) and delonghi dinamica plus and dinamica ecam 350(fully automatic). May I know taste wise is there much difference between semi auto and fully auto ? And if possible just want to know more about the machines
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May 4 2021, 01:58 PM
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Senior Member
644 posts Joined: Aug 2005 |
QUOTE(Aljfg @ May 4 2021, 01:27 PM) Hi all, I am thinking on investing in a coffee machine. Currently looking at three options breville basrista touch(semi-auto) and delonghi dinamica plus and dinamica ecam 350(fully automatic). May I know taste wise is there much difference between semi auto and fully auto ? And if possible just want to know more about the machines Not so familiar about the semi auto/autos but what is your expectation ultimately, from these 2 types?Afaik, these 2 types require some maintenance efforts, at least much more than a manual type. And how about your current grinder? |
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May 4 2021, 03:12 PM
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#6770
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Junior Member
122 posts Joined: Jun 2013 |
hi guys, anyone here using Monin syrup for their coffee? i want to try the Monin, but just try the 250ml. 700ml seems too much for me. i want try different flavour. can 700ml pump version fit the 250ml?
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May 4 2021, 04:08 PM
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Senior Member
6,230 posts Joined: Jun 2006 |
QUOTE(missmataleo @ May 4 2021, 03:12 PM) hi guys, anyone here using Monin syrup for their coffee? i want to try the Monin, but just try the 250ml. 700ml seems too much for me. i want try different flavour. can 700ml pump version fit the 250ml? I'm not sure anyone here does... if you wanna try just go for itpersonally I hate flavored coffee... shop uses this trick because they use cheap low grade coffee... |
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May 4 2021, 04:19 PM
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Senior Member
6,230 posts Joined: Jun 2006 |
QUOTE(Aljfg @ May 4 2021, 01:27 PM) Hi all, I am thinking on investing in a coffee machine. Currently looking at three options breville basrista touch(semi-auto) and delonghi dinamica plus and dinamica ecam 350(fully automatic). May I know taste wise is there much difference between semi auto and fully auto ? And if possible just want to know more about the machines ecam type I normally see in office pantry, conference room, etc settings... press button convenience for ppl, but messy cleanup... I would not get this for the home |
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May 5 2021, 01:43 AM
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Junior Member
122 posts Joined: Jun 2013 |
QUOTE(dwRK @ May 4 2021, 04:08 PM) I'm not sure anyone here does... if you wanna try just go for it It depends on individual. Some say they hate latte because it is not a pure coffee aka espresso. And not all ppl can drink espresso. I just want to maoe sure the pump can fit, if not i will waste my moneypersonally I hate flavored coffee... shop uses this trick because they use cheap low grade coffee... |
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May 5 2021, 05:36 AM
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Newbie
0 posts Joined: Oct 2013 |
Hi guys, was hoping for some advice on what nespresso machines (personal use, brew 2-3 cups a day) are recommended? Need one that is easy to maintain and durable (>5 years?!) due to a seemingly-perpetual WFH. (MCO also means no more free coffee for me
Also while looking for alternative pods on lazada, i came across this Buscaglione Pods https://www.lazada.com.my/shop/buscaglione-malaysia/ Anyone tried this before? Any comments? |
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May 5 2021, 07:48 AM
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Senior Member
6,230 posts Joined: Jun 2006 |
QUOTE(missmataleo @ May 5 2021, 01:43 AM) It depends on individual. Some say they hate latte because it is not a pure coffee aka espresso. And not all ppl can drink espresso. I just want to maoe sure the pump can fit, if not i will waste my money yeah... that's why I didn't say you shouldn't try... just saying I don't like it... |
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May 7 2021, 11:54 AM
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#6776
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5,484 posts Joined: Feb 2009 |
Hi, I have been brewing filtered coffee for a few months already. I always hear people mentioning "sweet" in their coffee. However, I do not really understand that because I just do not taste sweetness in my coffee. I initially thought that I brew it wrongly. Hence, I ordered pourover coffee from other cafe and I still do not taste any sweetness. The closest I ever tasted "sweetness" in my coffee is when I breath through my mouth after a sip or drink water/salivating after a sip. Is there any layman description for sweetness in coffee?
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May 7 2021, 02:38 PM
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Senior Member
1,308 posts Joined: Oct 2004 From: Penang & Ipoh |
QUOTE(imceobichi @ Apr 26 2021, 05:58 PM) If you are interested I got an old Jura Ena micro 9 for sale. I bought it 4 years back but only use it for less than 6 months. Then in to the storage. I now only use semi automatic Breville BES920. Frankly speaking semi auto still taste better than fully automatic but if you want fast and easy morning latte, this is as good as it gets. |
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May 7 2021, 04:55 PM
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#6778
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Junior Member
115 posts Joined: Aug 2020 |
QUOTE(pierreye @ May 7 2021, 02:38 PM) If you are interested I got an old Jura Ena micro 9 for sale. I bought it 4 years back but only use it for less than 6 months. Then in to the storage. I now only use semi automatic Breville BES920. Frankly speaking semi auto still taste better than fully automatic but if you want fast and easy morning latte, this is as good as it gets. Hi, thanks.Went for a China machine in the end |
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May 7 2021, 08:58 PM
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Senior Member
6,230 posts Joined: Jun 2006 |
QUOTE(pierreye @ May 7 2021, 02:38 PM) If you are interested I got an old Jura Ena micro 9 for sale. I bought it 4 years back but only use it for less than 6 months. Then in to the storage. I now only use semi automatic Breville BES920. Frankly speaking semi auto still taste better than fully automatic but if you want fast and easy morning latte, this is as good as it gets. the press one button type like jura.... these are called super automatic fully automatic is like semi automatic with volumetric control |
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May 7 2021, 09:29 PM
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Senior Member
6,230 posts Joined: Jun 2006 |
QUOTE(Fantasia @ May 7 2021, 11:54 AM) Hi, I have been brewing filtered coffee for a few months already. I always hear people mentioning "sweet" in their coffee. However, I do not really understand that because I just do not taste sweetness in my coffee. I initially thought that I brew it wrongly. Hence, I ordered pourover coffee from other cafe and I still do not taste any sweetness. The closest I ever tasted "sweetness" in my coffee is when I breath through my mouth after a sip or drink water/salivating after a sip. Is there any layman description for sweetness in coffee? you won't taste sweetness like a sugar drink for surethere IS sugar in beans and during roasting they get caramelized... a cup probably has about half gram of sugar so sweetness here is mostly relative... some people can distinguish smaller fractions some don't... someone who has minimal sugar/sweetness in their diet can probably taste the differences more... |
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