Hi all, I'm currently a fresh grad who just got called for a one-to-one interview at EY for assurance dprt (audit). From the phone interview, I got to know that I have to choose an industry now.

What I'm asking is this:
1. I couldn't seem to find the industries available for assurance for EY. May I know what are the industries available for EY audit?

2. After I've chosen the industry and after some time, I feel that it's not suitable, will EY allow me to switch to a different industry?

Hi, I would also like to ask, how would the audit workload and complexity differ from industry to industry?

For example, how would the audit work in Financial Services (FSO) differ from Diversified Industries, Technology and Communications (DTC)?

I'm afraid that I will choose the wrong industry to start with for my auditing career.

Read these if you already reach the 3rd year or just promoted as manager in Big4 

I think those that stay because some really like audit / because they are good at it (although these are rare). Most I know complained endlessly during lunch and at midnight about how much better outside, Uber employees earn more per hour, …
So, intention to leave is clear but its not a clear guarantee the world is better outside. Again to use auditors favorite word, these are just my personal opinion ...

Option 1: Join your client  in the reporting line as accountant/FM/SFM/CFO….

Rationale: Client wants you because they know you can deal back with your old firm.

Pros: Money must be good initially (to prise you away) but lesser incremental later on, you are familiar with the work (in theory), work-life balance (except during reporting deadline) and plenty of opportunities (a company die due must have a reporting staff)

Cons: Big4 look down on people that join client in reporting (especially anything below FM or CFO), most company will not hire Big4 as CFO straight away but prefer they climb up from Acc/FM, lack of prospect (unless got turnover), lack of skills (unless they are actual finance involved), lack of increments (your KPI is based on cost-centre, in audit you are revenue centre), lack of friends (depends on company structure as most hate finance dept)…

My own view: Being a good auditor does not make you a good accountant like a good coach makes them a great player.

Option 2: Join internal audit
Rationale: For those that loves audit but hated the hours

Pros: Very similar to accountant but the upside is your basic may be higher

Cons: Similar to accountant but a lot travel is necessary and your skills may be more specialised as not all people wants internal audit in their organisation (it’s because they are mandated to)

Option 3: Join a finance role (either advisory, investment banking)
Rationale: This is what every auditor will say (to look ambitious) before they actually left the firm. These are the roles most won’t feel embarrassed of stating. Accounting is not finance period.

Reality check: Most will apply to investment banks or asset management first. Most will get rejected as I am aware through industry knowledge, most banks (at least the top tier ones) in MYS does not see how audit knowledge can translate into areas such as CF, M&A, … (unless you have a CFA). If accepted, most will ask you to start at lower levels (so those with ego will get slighted). Assuming you do want to start at lower level you have to start suffering all over again. And salary is low (yes it is) but bonus is high depending on performance.

Based on these thoughts, most will lower down their goal and try advisory by asking the partner to recommend (if you are visible to them). This might take time as the audit partner wants you to finish all the work first and for the advisory partner to assess you. You might retain your position but don’t be surprised if you take longer time to get promoted. Again based on the type of advisory offerings, less than half requires even part of audit knowledge. So only the multi-talented one gets accepted.

Pros: A higher paying job in the end (if you want to see the difference, just see how much Big4 receives from corporate exercise compared to bankers), skills that is desirable at higher level (audit is non-revenue generating but advisory is), glamour???

Cons: Hours are worse, politics are worse, culture are worse, … and most important it requires a huge leap of skills acquisition from audit. And mistakes are not tolerated at all (especially when talking about corporate proposals). Bad works leads to missing business opportunities

Option 4: Unrelated (Corporate , Management Consulting, Hedge fund, asset management)
I assume if we are seeking progression, most will talked about joining these two.

Rationale: Glamour I guess, Imagine telling people you join MBB. Salary is very good (normally in USD) and a lot more.

Problem: Unless you came from an outstanding school, u hardly stand a chance applying with audit background. Then if you come from outstanding school (with no scholarship affiliation) why you decide to join big4 audit instead if you can apply to others?

Conclusion

So …. After all these, you think people don’t want to stay meh? Lol. Post manager in Big4 not bad. Steady progression (due to huge turnover), very good increment (RM1k per year almost guaranteed unless again you screw up), tons of associates can’t wait to bootlick you, no need to learn much after manager but just managing people and portfolio (apart from updating accounting or auditing standards), no risks of entrenchment (unless again you screwed it).

I think the biggest perk is that any manager can say “The firm needs me, the partner begs me to stay”. In commercial, its normally the other way around as many can take up your spot. And in commercial, staffs are normally given adequate time to prepare a quality work. In audit (especially in developing countries), staffs are given inadequate time to just submit the work. Auditors that don’t realise these going to commercial will have nightmares in their transition.

FSO mainly deals with banks, insurance and funds - Maybank, Ambank, Century Tokyo, Kenanga Investors, Bursa Malaysia etc. DTC mainly deals with telecommunications and media companies, not sure about the portfolio as I'm under FSO haha.

Well different industries have their own specialty, so the audit work and methodology used maybe different. For instance, in FSO you don't have stocktake because they dont have inventory! In EY we make you specialise in that particular industry. In FSO during the off-peak it can be very relaxing, but during peak hours can be crazy.

Regarding Option 4: Is your "Corporates" referring to commercial banks and MNCs? And what sort of management consulting firms? Those like McKinsey? Is there an overlap with Option 1 as MNCs can also employ you for reporting role?

Actually, option 4 is like a fully unrelated job to accounting. As I assume most people that left Big4 are seeking career advancement, a move from the operations to strategic seems reasonable. MNCs can and will definitely need accountants. Some hire you directly to their HQ or through shared service centres. To me, those are still under financial reporting and will fall under Option 1.
Option 4 is nothing to do with financial or statutory reporting. It’s more to do with strategic direction of the company. These jobs require much more than just accounting knowledge and you won’t see many people working inside there as it’s a top level job. Example of departments are such as strategy, M&A, corporate development, CEO office, et al.
I am referring to global management consulting firms and yes it includes MBB.
For banks, I am referring to the revenue generation department of the banks such as IB, CF or M&A. There are others such as corporate banks and treasury as well. Risk, internal audit, reporting and compliance will fall under the cost centre.
Now after such examples, I think Option 4 is more like moving to the revenue centre of the organisation. I think only audit firms will be the circumstance where accounting/audit will be the revenue centre. When you shift to industry, most of the accounting/audit background will be part of cost centre until you move to a strategic role or C-level executive.

Read these if you already reach the 3rd year or just promoted as manager in Big4 

I think those that stay because some really like audit / because they are good at it (although these are rare). Most I know complained endlessly during lunch and at midnight about how much better outside, Uber employees earn more per hour, …
So, intention to leave is clear but its not a clear guarantee the world is better outside. Again to use auditors favorite word, these are just my personal opinion ...

Option 1: Join your client  in the reporting line as accountant/FM/SFM/CFO….

Rationale: Client wants you because they know you can deal back with your old firm.

Pros: Money must be good initially (to prise you away) but lesser incremental later on, you are familiar with the work (in theory), work-life balance (except during reporting deadline) and plenty of opportunities (a company die due must have a reporting staff)

Cons: Big4 look down on people that join client in reporting (especially anything below FM or CFO), most company will not hire Big4 as CFO straight away but prefer they climb up from Acc/FM, lack of prospect (unless got turnover), lack of skills (unless they are actual finance involved), lack of increments (your KPI is based on cost-centre, in audit you are revenue centre), lack of friends (depends on company structure as most hate finance dept)…

My own view: Being a good auditor does not make you a good accountant like a good coach makes them a great player.

Option 2: Join internal audit
Rationale: For those that loves audit but hated the hours

Pros: Very similar to accountant but the upside is your basic may be higher

Cons: Similar to accountant but a lot travel is necessary and your skills may be more specialised as not all people wants internal audit in their organisation (it’s because they are mandated to)

Option 3: Join a finance role (either advisory, investment banking)
Rationale: This is what every auditor will say (to look ambitious) before they actually left the firm. These are the roles most won’t feel embarrassed of stating. Accounting is not finance period.

Reality check: Most will apply to investment banks or asset management first. Most will get rejected as I am aware through industry knowledge, most banks (at least the top tier ones) in MYS does not see how audit knowledge can translate into areas such as CF, M&A, … (unless you have a CFA). If accepted, most will ask you to start at lower levels (so those with ego will get slighted). Assuming you do want to start at lower level you have to start suffering all over again. And salary is low (yes it is) but bonus is high depending on performance.

Based on these thoughts, most will lower down their goal and try advisory by asking the partner to recommend (if you are visible to them). This might take time as the audit partner wants you to finish all the work first and for the advisory partner to assess you. You might retain your position but don’t be surprised if you take longer time to get promoted. Again based on the type of advisory offerings, less than half requires even part of audit knowledge. So only the multi-talented one gets accepted.

Pros: A higher paying job in the end (if you want to see the difference, just see how much Big4 receives from corporate exercise compared to bankers), skills that is desirable at higher level (audit is non-revenue generating but advisory is), glamour???

Cons: Hours are worse, politics are worse, culture are worse, … and most important it requires a huge leap of skills acquisition from audit. And mistakes are not tolerated at all (especially when talking about corporate proposals). Bad works leads to missing business opportunities

Option 4: Unrelated (Corporate , Management Consulting, Hedge fund, asset management)
I assume if we are seeking progression, most will talked about joining these two.

Rationale: Glamour I guess, Imagine telling people you join MBB. Salary is very good (normally in USD) and a lot more.

Problem: Unless you came from an outstanding school, u hardly stand a chance applying with audit background. Then if you come from outstanding school (with no scholarship affiliation) why you decide to join big4 audit instead if you can apply to others?

Conclusion

So …. After all these, you think people don’t want to stay meh? Lol. Post manager in Big4 not bad. Steady progression (due to huge turnover), very good increment (RM1k per year almost guaranteed unless again you screw up), tons of associates can’t wait to bootlick you, no need to learn much after manager but just managing people and portfolio (apart from updating accounting or auditing standards), no risks of entrenchment (unless again you screwed it).

I think the biggest perk is that any manager can say “The firm needs me, the partner begs me to stay”. In commercial, its normally the other way around as many can take up your spot. And in commercial, staffs are normally given adequate time to prepare a quality work. In audit (especially in developing countries), staffs are given inadequate time to just submit the work. Auditors that don’t realise these going to commercial will have nightmares in their transition.

Read these if you already reach the 3rd year or just promoted as manager in Big4 

I think those that stay because some really like audit / because they are good at it (although these are rare). Most I know complained endlessly during lunch and at midnight about how much better outside, Uber employees earn more per hour, …
So, intention to leave is clear but its not a clear guarantee the world is better outside. Again to use auditors favorite word, these are just my personal opinion ...

Option 1: Join your client  in the reporting line as accountant/FM/SFM/CFO….

Rationale: Client wants you because they know you can deal back with your old firm.

Pros: Money must be good initially (to prise you away) but lesser incremental later on, you are familiar with the work (in theory), work-life balance (except during reporting deadline) and plenty of opportunities (a company die due must have a reporting staff)

Cons: Big4 look down on people that join client in reporting (especially anything below FM or CFO), most company will not hire Big4 as CFO straight away but prefer they climb up from Acc/FM, lack of prospect (unless got turnover), lack of skills (unless they are actual finance involved), lack of increments (your KPI is based on cost-centre, in audit you are revenue centre), lack of friends (depends on company structure as most hate finance dept)…

My own view: Being a good auditor does not make you a good accountant like a good coach makes them a great player.

Option 2: Join internal audit
Rationale: For those that loves audit but hated the hours

Pros: Very similar to accountant but the upside is your basic may be higher

Cons: Similar to accountant but a lot travel is necessary and your skills may be more specialised as not all people wants internal audit in their organisation (it’s because they are mandated to)

Option 3: Join a finance role (either advisory, investment banking)
Rationale: This is what every auditor will say (to look ambitious) before they actually left the firm. These are the roles most won’t feel embarrassed of stating. Accounting is not finance period.

Reality check: Most will apply to investment banks or asset management first. Most will get rejected as I am aware through industry knowledge, most banks (at least the top tier ones) in MYS does not see how audit knowledge can translate into areas such as CF, M&A, … (unless you have a CFA). If accepted, most will ask you to start at lower levels (so those with ego will get slighted). Assuming you do want to start at lower level you have to start suffering all over again. And salary is low (yes it is) but bonus is high depending on performance.

Based on these thoughts, most will lower down their goal and try advisory by asking the partner to recommend (if you are visible to them). This might take time as the audit partner wants you to finish all the work first and for the advisory partner to assess you. You might retain your position but don’t be surprised if you take longer time to get promoted. Again based on the type of advisory offerings, less than half requires even part of audit knowledge. So only the multi-talented one gets accepted.

Pros: A higher paying job in the end (if you want to see the difference, just see how much Big4 receives from corporate exercise compared to bankers), skills that is desirable at higher level (audit is non-revenue generating but advisory is), glamour???

Cons: Hours are worse, politics are worse, culture are worse, … and most important it requires a huge leap of skills acquisition from audit. And mistakes are not tolerated at all (especially when talking about corporate proposals). Bad works leads to missing business opportunities

Option 4: Unrelated (Corporate , Management Consulting, Hedge fund, asset management)
I assume if we are seeking progression, most will talked about joining these two.

Rationale: Glamour I guess, Imagine telling people you join MBB. Salary is very good (normally in USD) and a lot more.

Problem: Unless you came from an outstanding school, u hardly stand a chance applying with audit background. Then if you come from outstanding school (with no scholarship affiliation) why you decide to join big4 audit instead if you can apply to others?

Conclusion

So …. After all these, you think people don’t want to stay meh? Lol. Post manager in Big4 not bad. Steady progression (due to huge turnover), very good increment (RM1k per year almost guaranteed unless again you screw up), tons of associates can’t wait to bootlick you, no need to learn much after manager but just managing people and portfolio (apart from updating accounting or auditing standards), no risks of entrenchment (unless again you screwed it).

I think the biggest perk is that any manager can say “The firm needs me, the partner begs me to stay”. In commercial, its normally the other way around as many can take up your spot. And in commercial, staffs are normally given adequate time to prepare a quality work. In audit (especially in developing countries), staffs are given inadequate time to just submit the work. Auditors that don’t realise these going to commercial will have nightmares in their transition.

When do u think is the best time to leave big 4 and join internal audit.

When becoming a senior ? AM ? Or manager ?

Should I try for internship before finishing ACCA? Take a break after P1 - P3 and work a bit before going back?

Parents keep telling me to go study all the way, but some tell me to work before doing P7 and P6 - is this a good idea?

Anyone applying big 4 Singapore recently? Wondering anyone get shortlisted for interview here.

Should I try for internship before finishing ACCA? Take a break after P1 - P3 and work a bit before going back?

Parents keep telling me to go study all the way, but some tell me to work before doing P7 and P6 - is this a good idea?

Direct application as fresh grad is very very tough as big 4 in singapore have a policy of hiring their local big 3 uni first (nus ntu smu), then singaporeans from oversea uni, and thdn.only us.

Source. I was a former big4 manager in sg, and hr tell me its their policy to hire local first. I was trying to get an.opening from a relative, but failed.

How long usually does it takes for Big 4 to process an application?

Also what about going into medium firm such as BDO, Crowe Howarth and Baker tilly? Is it worth going into medium firm?

Currently I have 2 years experience in investment banking, specifically asset management in the operation department. Is it possible for me to enter big 4 or medium firm? My degree result pretty much average though.

Any tips?

Applied for KPMG, EY & PWC. Haven't heard from them.

I heard from friends said the same thing also. Hiring rate has been bad recently. I received an email from 1 of the big4 sg to provide additional information and now waiting for news. Wondering how long they take to process a job application. Should I email them to ask for outcome like weekly basis? I afraid later too despo then sked them.off.