when they pay bonus? feb?

Ey in november.
Pwc in july.
Kpmg and deloitte i think feb (not sure)

oooh thank you very much

Hi bro, thank you so much for responding to my enquiries.

To be honest, I don't really know what path I should look forward to when it comes to audit firms. I would be enlighten if you could help me out here.

Actually I can't see my future by dealing with same daily paperwork every single day in the operations department although I happen to be able to see how asset management operates. Not only that, it is also way too repetitive for my liking; my current job, that is. So one my associate director actually suggested me to keep my options open by seeking to the audit path since the recruitment for banks can be relatively tough at the moment. I keep my options open nonetheless.

However the main point in this thread is, I'm not sure how my current job as a operations executive can relate with any position in the audit path. Whether to go assurance or advisory is a huge question. I would be more than happy if any professionals lurking in this thread care to give a hand or two.

Thank you so much!

This post has been edited by ryanice8888: Sep 30 2016, 03:13 PM

Hi guys, fresh grad need some advice here.
I have attended interview 2 weeks ago in one of the medium accounting firms.
The interviewer told me that the HR will take 2 weeks to process my application. However, i get no response and thus send a follow up mail to ask the status.

Within hours, the HR replied that the status for the application is still under processing. We shall contact you again after we have confirmed the outcome.

Wanna ask if I still stand chance for the job offer? Quite looking forward to join this firm as starting point.

This post has been edited by No0bxd123: Sep 30 2016, 04:19 PM

Operations in bank quite specialised. A good thing is if you want to apply for a similar position in another bank, you will have advantage over others. The problem is too specialised will make it harder to try jobs that required different skills / general skills. Most boss rarely gives employee time to try and experiment.

If you want to join a firm (like Big4) with no direct experience, normally it’s recommended to join at a lower level. The level of expectation on mid-level is quite high. Even if for some reason, they allow you to join at mid-level, the journey will not be easy. Audit also dealing with paperwork but maybe form 25% of the job?

During my time, the methodology for audit sounds like this:
1) Planning (Talk with partner, discussion, budget, site-visit – normally done by manager or senior in charge).
2) Strategy (Pre-audit, TOC, update working paper) – Mostly perform pre-work.
3) Execution – Audit itself.
4) Finalisation – Normally client will draft accounts and auditors are required to review/edit accordingly. Most of the paperwork is here.

If you like performing to test internal controls – most will try advisory (performance improvement) or internal audit.
If you like the preparation of financial statement itself – most will try accounting or tax later.
If you like calculation and valuation / presentation – Most will try advisory (valuation)
If you like drafting accounts & good in presentation – Try CF, M&A or deals

Most companies will not outright reject applicants (to preserve reputation). Most common is they act silent or say something to delay the process. Mainly due to fear of their top applicant rejects them and they still have back-ups.

My junior in uni did assessment for kpmg audit and the way he described to me seems like the test is different than the one I did in 2013. Now they ask you to analyze data and graph vs then it was math test. Hehe they make it just a bit harder (and relevant to job scope I guess)

Exactly what you said, I'm expecting to start at entry/lower level. Starting from scratch.

Not going to be bothered by that though, I guess its never too late.

Thank you so much for helpful response. I'll rethink again for my audit path to know what I really want.

Hi mate, I came by your post and I share your sentiment and was in your position, so I would love to help out and throw in some of my views based on my experience.

My background is a bit messy and unconventional - I have been with Big 4s and professional services all my life in Msia and SG and am now with another Big 4 again in Sydney. I tried 3 months audit with one of the Big 4s when I started out but I didn't like it and did not do well, so I join Risk consulting (Internal Control) of another Big 4 for a year before I move to Corporate Finance and spent few years there in Msia and subsequently in SG (Mainly in M&A, restructuring and capital markets financial advisory). I am now with the consulting arm of a Big 4 in Sydney focusing on financial modelling and data analytics.

2 things to clarify: Yes consulting and CF is a smaller practice in big 4 compared to audit's revenue share but the growth is much higher (With the exception for Deloitte globally). In fact you can see that all the Big 4s are focusing heavily into consulting nowadays because of the growth. There is an insider joke around that Deloitte is no longer an audit firm because 60% of their global revenue is generated from non-audit service (read Consulting), and they do not see other big 4s as competitors in terms of consulting, at least that is true for markets like UK, US and Australia, not sure about Msia though. The point is consulting and CF are growing businesses and there will be major leap in the next 5 to 10 years, this partly explains why PwC was keen to acquire Booz just to catch up with the market.

Compared to other brand name consulting firms, the advantage of a Big 4 consulting is the packaging of service - the expertise in accounting and tax related service that might be needed in an strategy or implementation piece. Some Big 4s are well known for specific areas for example EY is strong globally in Infrastructure advisory and Insurance sector knowledge and KPMG is really strong in overall CF practice. I dunno much about PwC other than being a really strong audit player.

Like you, I hated paper work and am pretty lousy with documentation and checking stuffs, so it was a blessing in disguise that I was discouraged from joining audit after my first internship. Otherwise I would have been a lousy auditor until now. If you hate paper work, there is even more paper work in audit and I don't understand your motivation of joining audit unless for the sake of experience. Generally it is true that audit is a safer choice in terms of career option, especially in markets like Msia where consulting or CF is a smaller and less sophisticated market but if you are going to hate what you are doing, it is pretty pointless and you won't go far. I think it is important to know what you really want and what are you willing to trade-off.

Given your experience with the operational side of a bank, you might be better-off joining advisory, particularly in an area such as finance operation transformation, but such specialisation is not available in Msia and as far as I can recall, only SG and Aus have such practice in Asia Pacific. You can try your luck with EY because I think they have an FSO advisory practice and they tend work closely with SG as well. The thing about consulting is that you really need to able to present yourself very well - the mentality of a consultant is very different and to some extent, auditors generally find it uncomfortable with the way consultant works because they are willing to put forward their point of view whereas auditors refrain from making management judgements. If you are not a expressive, talk as you go type, consulting can be exhausting.

I might be digressing, but perhaps it will be helpful by asking what are you trying to achieve by joining a big 4 - if you do not know what specifically you want, it is hard to maximise the impact of your choice and audit seems to be the safest choice by default.

Cheers.

Hey man, i'm actually surprised that how much helpful comment I gotten from this thread. Thank you so much for such resourceful insight.
I think I might have glimpse of a picture of what I may really chasing after.

I never knew consulting was the next big thing for audit firms. I always thought audit generate its billion in revenue from audit. Clearly it was a naive thought.

However, you guys may misunderstood me as I did not and poorly describe of my current situation in my current company. I would like to emphasize strongly, I do not hate my job or the paperwork at all. As matter of fact, I love to the very bit of it. I was able to see how asset management works, what and why my fund manager bought stock/bonds in the equity/debt market, the overall portfolio and many priceless experience. I was nonetheless pretty efficient and meticulous when it comes to documentation. To get into what i detest was I've been working in this specific company for years without appraisal which translate to no recognition. Moreover I actually dislike how repetitive it can really gets, like literally. Technically it has been like a robot-like experience. Eventually that leads me to think that I wasn't able to have bright future and how am I able to achieve strong position in the corporate ladder.

Ultimately it left down to audit route for me, which will subsequently allows me to have greater exposure in achieving my goal.

Although I can never be more than thankful, I still would to express my gratitude for people who has guided me.

This post has been edited by ryanice8888: Oct 4 2016, 08:17 PM

I think consulting is a very generic term, in my view there is 4 type of consulting (relevant to finance world):
1) Management consulting (MC)
2) Finance consulting (FC)
3) Transaction consulting (TC)
4) IT consulting (IT)

MC is a different ball game. They prefer a smaller but highly skilled and specialised team. They don’t pride themselves being “big” but focus more on their technical expertise. Big4 tried to get into MC for a very long time but growth is definitely not in the pipeline. Big4 can try all they want but MNCs will always prefer MBB comes to MC.

FC is like audit, governance, risk, recovery, internal audit,… This is Big4 core area and competitive advantage. This area is growing at a higher pace than audit (but not leap). This is where most of those leaving audit will go to. Quite hard to join from external as most requires or prefers accounting background.

TC is like deals, transactions; M&A and CF. Big4 mainly act as support to IB. This area is off-set by lack of large IPOs but rise in private M&As. Big4 will treasure anyone joining from IB but rarely people left IB to join Big4. MNCs normally approach IBs, Legal advisers and Big4s in that order.

IT consulting. This is the area where there are huge leap in growth. Most MNCs want to upgrade their finance with IT functions. Most will try to upgrade to high-tier software such as SAPs followed by IFCA, JDEs,… The rise of fintech also propel the rise in IT + Finance consulting. Most firms have a clear division between IT and financial auditors.

If I may guess, you are in the compliance side of asset management and you want to jump to the buy-side of asset management. I think if you are interested in the real buy/sell asset management, you may seek specialist investment house or funds. Boutique investment funds, PE and VCs also have such function. Ideally, you can take CFA if your work time permits.

That is a neat summary. I would like to add a few more points particularly about Management consulting and Transactions Consulting.

Traditionally there is a pretty clear demarcation of Strategy houses (Mckinsey, BCG and Bain (MBBs) is a good example) and Operation houses (which generally encompasses IT implementation, HR etc and firms like Accenture and Big 4s are active in this space) however the distinction getting less relevant - Most consulting outfit these days have both Strategy and Operations team (Deloitte is a good example with a rather mature consulting practice) and MBBs these days are building up their operational implementation capabilities. This reflects the changing demand in the market where not many clients these days are willing to pay only strategy work without implementation package, and democratisation of data and knowledge (read big data and internet).

Without doubt MBBs will retain their prestige in strategy work and Big 4s will retain a very strong operational consulting capability but competition is definitely catching up - I have seen and known fews cases where MBBs lost major jobs to Big 4s (In Msia and Australia) and where clients believe Big 4 consulting did better jobs. Still, these anonymous examples might be exceptions but It will be interesting to see how the competition landscape will play out in the future.

Transaction consulting wise - it will remain true that Big 4s will not be able to compete with IBs because of the lack of balance sheet and size. Unlike consulting, size is everything to support big TC jobs. Again, I have seen cases where Big 4 won a major energy sector M&A from Bulge Brackets but it is a rare instance. There is little competition between IBs and Big 4s because they generally target different market segments and IBs may be major clients of Big 4 for TC jobs. I don't foresee things will change significantly in the Big 4 CF landscape.

Last but not the least, CFA is nice to have but don't get too hung up about it - it is prestigious without doubt (In Aus, you easily get calls from headhunter by having the title and if you work in the relevant field) but not a requirement in the finance sector.

That is all from me. Feel free to add.

Hi all, I'm a fresh graduate and currently doing ACCA P level. I'm having a dilemma after i completed my internship in one of the big 4 audit department. I'm not sure wanna start my career in Audit or Tax. My aim is to get the CA licence after 3 years and hoping can get a job in SG Big 4 or mid tier firm. As i know if wanna join in SG Big 4 or Mid Tier Audit division with few years experience is not impossible. However, during my internship I found out that I'm not too interested in Audit and wanna try to join in Tax, Internal Audit or Advisory.

The purpose of open this post is like to seek some advice or opinion from Tax Experience Senior who are work in Big 4. I would like to know that is it able for us to apply and get to work in SG Tax division when we have few years experience the major concern of me is the Tax law is variant in Malaysia and SG. So I'm not sure that SG Big 4 is it will take us. Beside that, I would also like to know more about Transfer Pricing this area if anyone are in this area could you tell me more about it. I also like to know which area is the best to start as a Tax Associate(Indirect Tax, Business Tax/Corp Tax, TP, International Tax, Global Employer Services).

Secondly, I would also like to know more about Internal Auditor. Anyone can tell me more about this position so that I can get some picture about this work. Beside that, I also have an interested in Forensic Accounting/Fraud Investigation and during my Degree i have took forensic accounting so I knew the basic theory about Forensic Accounting but I would like to know more about the job scope in the real working environment.

Thank you to spend your time to read my post and hope you can drop me some advice or opinion.

Any advice on how to get into SG Big 4 as a Malaysian fresh grad?

Here is a pretty good overview of all the various corporate finance jobs at the public accounting firms http://www.corporatefinanceinstitute.com/career-map most people don't think of accounting firms for corp finance but they actually have quite a few options

Anyone working in Pwc financial services assurance? Is their pay different with general assurance?

Never read thread isit. I dunno say how many times liao, big 4 in singapore hire their local graduates and singaporeans first. In this kind of economy, are you from harvard or oxford or LSE? If not, dun.bother. find a job in malaysia big 4 and go over after 2 years experience.

Same pay. Ex pwc here. Bro oso in pwc. Lul.

I have not heard of people jumping to SG with tax background. My view on tax is mainly segregated into tax compliance and tax planning. If you dislike the compliance nature of audit, I don’t see you will enjoy tax compliance also. Tax and law is mainly specific to one country. Hence, you mobility is very restricted. Accounting / audit is based on international standards and local accounting standards normally vary little (except US GAAP). Hence it’s easier for auditor/accountant to jump. Having said that, it also applies to advisory that is not heavily based on the country specific laws and regulations. Example of advisory that is dependent on country law will be CF.

Forensic is like an agreed upon procedures to conduct test/interview/review/… on a specific part of the system/process/people/controls/financials/… Think of it like a specialised audit.

Internal audit is mainly doing TOC of audit. Company have a system or controls. You help design or plan the controls. Go in and ensure all companies / subsidiary is following the controls. Monitor and provide feedback. Repeat every month/quarter/yearly. Role is similar to Quality Analyst as well.

Hey all, Can I ask when are the recruitment periods? Is there recruitment from Oct - Dec?