When you reach managerial position, you may change your mindset.

Understand that you are working in a Big 4 now, mind to clarify why you would say so?

office politics, and in term of progressing to partnership - medium firm would be easier + need not work like no tomorrow/sacrifice your health.

that's so true.. you'll experience the office politics when you reached managerial position..

I think Big4 managers might find office politics even worse when they decided to leave

is it? i personally felt it's better outside..
coz the office politics usually at GM level and above.. dont not involve manager level most of the time..
just follow our bosses lead..

My opinion/general observation - whoever that are still staying in big4 after reaching managerial position are those average performers among their peers/batchmates.

These average performers, are either good at office politics OR get stuck/no better opportunities outside.

Extraordinary - got headhunted.
Lousy/cmi - resigned at early stage.

No offend, just observation. Of course, I've also seen SM/partners who are really good and understandable, but that's only like 1 out of 5? To all who are still in Big 4, be focus in your work, stay away from unnecessary office politics and be a good boss.

This post has been edited by z21j: Aug 14 2016, 12:04 AM

Read these if you already reach the 3rd year or just promoted as manager in Big4

I think those that stay because some really like audit / because they are good at it (although these are rare). Most I know complained endlessly during lunch and at midnight about how much better outside, Uber employees earn more per hour, …
So, intention to leave is clear but its not a clear guarantee the world is better outside. Again to use auditors favorite word, these are just my personal opinion ...

Option 1: Join your client in the reporting line as accountant/FM/SFM/CFO….

Rationale: Client wants you because they know you can deal back with your old firm.

Pros: Money must be good initially (to prise you away) but lesser incremental later on, you are familiar with the work (in theory), work-life balance (except during reporting deadline) and plenty of opportunities (a company die due must have a reporting staff)

Cons: Big4 look down on people that join client in reporting (especially anything below FM or CFO), most company will not hire Big4 as CFO straight away but prefer they climb up from Acc/FM, lack of prospect (unless got turnover), lack of skills (unless they are actual finance involved), lack of increments (your KPI is based on cost-centre, in audit you are revenue centre), lack of friends (depends on company structure as most hate finance dept)…

My own view: Being a good auditor does not make you a good accountant like a good coach makes them a great player.

Option 2: Join internal audit
Rationale: For those that loves audit but hated the hours

Pros: Very similar to accountant but the upside is your basic may be higher

Cons: Similar to accountant but a lot travel is necessary and your skills may be more specialised as not all people wants internal audit in their organisation (it’s because they are mandated to)

Option 3: Join a finance role (either advisory, investment banking)
Rationale: This is what every auditor will say (to look ambitious) before they actually left the firm. These are the roles most won’t feel embarrassed of stating. Accounting is not finance period.

Reality check: Most will apply to investment banks or asset management first. Most will get rejected as I am aware through industry knowledge, most banks (at least the top tier ones) in MYS does not see how audit knowledge can translate into areas such as CF, M&A, … (unless you have a CFA). If accepted, most will ask you to start at lower levels (so those with ego will get slighted). Assuming you do want to start at lower level you have to start suffering all over again. And salary is low (yes it is) but bonus is high depending on performance.

Based on these thoughts, most will lower down their goal and try advisory by asking the partner to recommend (if you are visible to them). This might take time as the audit partner wants you to finish all the work first and for the advisory partner to assess you. You might retain your position but don’t be surprised if you take longer time to get promoted. Again based on the type of advisory offerings, less than half requires even part of audit knowledge. So only the multi-talented one gets accepted.

Pros: A higher paying job in the end (if you want to see the difference, just see how much Big4 receives from corporate exercise compared to bankers), skills that is desirable at higher level (audit is non-revenue generating but advisory is), glamour???

Cons: Hours are worse, politics are worse, culture are worse, … and most important it requires a huge leap of skills acquisition from audit. And mistakes are not tolerated at all (especially when talking about corporate proposals). Bad works leads to missing business opportunities

Option 4: Unrelated (Corporate , Management Consulting, Hedge fund, asset management)
I assume if we are seeking progression, most will talked about joining these two.

Rationale: Glamour I guess, Imagine telling people you join MBB. Salary is very good (normally in USD) and a lot more.

Problem: Unless you came from an outstanding school, u hardly stand a chance applying with audit background. Then if you come from outstanding school (with no scholarship affiliation) why you decide to join big4 audit instead if you can apply to others?

Conclusion

So …. After all these, you think people don’t want to stay meh? Lol. Post manager in Big4 not bad. Steady progression (due to huge turnover), very good increment (RM1k per year almost guaranteed unless again you screw up), tons of associates can’t wait to bootlick you, no need to learn much after manager but just managing people and portfolio (apart from updating accounting or auditing standards), no risks of entrenchment (unless again you screwed it).

I think the biggest perk is that any manager can say “The firm needs me, the partner begs me to stay”. In commercial, its normally the other way around as many can take up your spot. And in commercial, staffs are normally given adequate time to prepare a quality work. In audit (especially in developing countries), staffs are given inadequate time to just submit the work. Auditors that don’t realise these going to commercial will have nightmares in their transition.

This post has been edited by Topace111: Aug 15 2016, 04:31 PM

Oh yes. I agree with your analysis about the option. That why I say - those who still stay after reaching managerial position are EITHER good at office politics OR get stuck/no better opportunities outside - The one you mentioned more like "get stuck" in the firm, which I totally agree with.

anyone working in sg big 4? would like to know if they are hiring malaysian as audit associate, with 2 years working experience in commercial firms.

This post has been edited by Tally33: Aug 24 2016, 11:59 AM

Audit associate level is like fresh grad also can. Pretty sure you can get it if youre qualifications and background is there.

Completed ACCA and Degree in A&F, thanks for enlightening

Hi guys,

I have 2 questions:

1. How do i boost my chance to go big 4 sg? they never entertain my application
2. Will it make much difference to have experience in big 4 KL rather than big 4 regional offices?
I do know big 4 sg also recruit auditors from RO.
3. Is it 'guaranteed'(high chance) that I can get a spot at big4 sg once i reach senior (2 years experience)? Coz many resign at that level

I currently have 1 year ++ exp in audit.
Im an ACCA affiliate and overseas degree holder(second class upper).
Got all A's in SPM.
Active in co-curricular activities.

Thanks for your reply in advance.

Definitely eligible for audit associate position.

Maybe you can try aim for 2nd year audit associate position as well.

but dont think they entertain foreigner unless you are a senior, i tried before, no reply from them at all. you working in sg too?

This post has been edited by Tally33: Aug 25 2016, 11:24 AM

If you want to get to Big4 SG,

1) Contacts, the higher rank the better. If you unable to get from Big4 SG, get from Big4 MYS. Try get partner to recommend it will be much easier.
2) Performance appraisal for Big4’s are similar, if you get good ranking, they will more likely to consider even from different firm
3) Relevance of experience: Audit is easiest but tax and advisory very difficult unless you have direct experience in advisory or good contacts.
4) Position: Most get position cut or promotion withheld so negotiate properly. Jumping at senior level is easier but very tiring for you. You have to adapt to sg system which is not really similar

On the other regional office, I think JB is very popular for the staff but HQ always have the larger exposure

Lastly on the “guaranteed”, depends on you lo. Most can get if they really put effort into getting there by doing the things I highlight above. Think properly though, getting there is easy. Staying there for long is different matter.

And ….. most employers will likely ignore your pre-working credentials (qualifications, sports, …).

1) Getting recommendation from partner is kind of impossible because you know, they always want to retain staff. Haih. Furthermore, Im doing audit for high profile client - recurring job.
2) Do they consider that maybe they get good ranking because they do small and easy jobs?
3) Thats good news for us
4) Dont really care if they downgrade, just need in total 3 years min.


Should i move to RO and have higher chance of getting better appraisal because auditing there would be easier due to smaller companies?
I have heard that they do hire a lot from big 4 JB while some auditors at big4 KL could not get in(seniors-even high performers).
I always thought that if they have 2 similar candidates, they would always prefer those from KL, because of the exposure.
Wondering whats the real reason, what went wrong.

Thanks so much for your reply

If you are a high performer and people perceive you have integrity, the partner will have no problem helping you. If your manager endorsed you and you leave a good impression (give ample notice, finish work on time, deliver quality, …). The partner prefer those that are upfront rather than those tender last minute during peak period. The partner wish to retain staff but they know industry norm of high turnover. If you are leaving to a better place, most partners will normally help unless you are invisible to them. If you are doing a high profile client, I see no reason the partner will not remember you in the first place?

I think ranking is very subjective but as long as you did not get below average that should be ok. As long as they know you get promoted every year that should be fine.

The best is get a letter of recommendation from a partner and attach with CV when apply.

I have not heard of people moving from HQ to RO to go SG, you can try though.

I don’t think Big4 SG gives a damn, they just gonna offer a standard position and salary. The key is not on them but on the prospective staff. Some people will think these are too low, I should get higher position, ….

Hi all, I'm currently a fresh grad who just got called for a one-to-one interview at EY for assurance dprt (audit). From the phone interview, I got to know that I have to choose an industry now.

What I'm asking is this:
1. I couldn't seem to find the industries available for assurance for EY. May I know what are the industries available for EY audit?

2. After I've chosen the industry and after some time, I feel that it's not suitable, will EY allow me to switch to a different industry?