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 Big 4 Recruitment Drive_v3

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habaapaaa
post Apr 15 2016, 04:25 PM

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Sorry for leaving such impression for u, dasecret sweat.gif , I am just trying to gather as much information as I can here. Have gone through all the threads from v1, most of them are really informative. thumbup.gif But I still have some doubts over the discussions of you guys, so am trying to clear it up here. Of course I know the years would be tough, no pain no gain and I have to put in the efforts. wink.gif Would u mind sharing with me on how you get through the tough years though?


Thank you for your inputs thumbsup.gif

This post has been edited by habaapaaa: Apr 15 2016, 04:31 PM
Nickie6817
post Apr 15 2016, 05:15 PM

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QUOTE(habaapaaa @ Apr 14 2016, 11:12 PM)
Could any sifu analyse in more details about the pro and con for each audit department i.e. FS, EUMI, MMG, CIPS etc.? (I heard that FS and EUMI are harder to audit and more work to do?)
Which is good to join if I don't have any preference on all of them?

And some forumers said that in EY you can do what u want i.e. can go back earlier a bit, after finishing your work, the seniors won't keep pushing more tasks to you so that you won't go back earlier than them.. how about PwC?

What is the cut off date for promotion for EY and PwC? If I were to join any of them in July/ August, when will be my latest promotion date?

Since sometimes auditors work until midnight, can they just sleep at the office till the next morning instead of going back? tongue.gif

If from BIG4 jump to middle firm say after 2 or 3 years, will middle firm discount the experience in BIG4?

Will BIG4 pay for your ACCA annual subscription fees? If yes, by how much?
Thank you for your time!
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I just went on a firm visit to EY just now. Apparently the HR told us that the contract stated working hours is around 8-5pm, but you have the flexibility to come early and go back early as long as you meet the minimum working hours (BUT she says this usually won't happen, OT is common). The flexibility is limited still.

However if you join, for instance, external audit, you're spending most of your time at client's place so you will be following their working hours instead of your usual hours. Audit requires you to fish as much information as you can when the client is still available, hence there's minimal time to waste. So if the client's office opens from 8-midnight you will have to stay. Plus, audit is a teamwork, you can't be leaving early alone while the rest are still struggling.

The above are what I have been told by the HR and some seniors there.

This post has been edited by Nickie6817: Apr 15 2016, 05:17 PM
ThanatosSwiftfire
post Apr 15 2016, 06:13 PM

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If u r not rdy to spend a few years working rly late.. Pwc is not the place for you.
dasecret
post Apr 15 2016, 06:49 PM

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QUOTE(habaapaaa @ Apr 15 2016, 04:25 PM)
Sorry for leaving such impression for u, dasecret sweat.gif  , I am just trying to gather as much information as I can here. Have gone through all the threads from v1, most of them are really informative. thumbup.gif  But I still have some doubts over the discussions of you guys, so am trying to clear it up here. Of course I know the years would be tough, no pain no gain and I have to put in the efforts. wink.gif  Would u mind sharing with me on how you get through the tough years though?
Thank you for your inputs thumbsup.gif
*
Hmm.... I was very lucky I guess... my late nights are relatively not so late; and study leave is a good time to recuperate (just make sure you pass your exams quickly though, it gets tougher when you are more senior)

And the bunch of people you work with is your life line, you spend so much time together you see them more than your own family or bf/gf. So if you have a great team then it becomes more bearable too

As fresh graduates you are young and energetic and can physically take the long hours; it's the best time to focus on career and learn as much as you can. Can you imagine putting in the hard work only in your 30s when you have family and all? If not now, when?
Kesh1018
post Apr 15 2016, 10:34 PM

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Secured an internship offer at both E&Y and PwC, under IT Risk Advisory.

Dilemma on which to accept.
fcuk90
post Apr 16 2016, 10:14 AM

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QUOTE(Kesh1018 @ Apr 15 2016, 10:34 PM)
Secured an internship offer at both E&Y and PwC, under IT Risk Advisory.

Dilemma on which to accept.
*
You are accounting grad?
IT risk is the good imo, if me ,i would like accept.

Justin Wong
post Apr 17 2016, 11:59 PM

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QUOTE(mmm92 @ Apr 14 2016, 06:09 PM)
Hi there, would require your personal opinion if your were in my case:

I am about to commence as an audit associate in one of the big four, I cannot name it as I scared later I will be targeted lol, I am a fresh grad that is about to commence in June.

I am an Australian PR just because I stayed long enough due to my study period here in Australia.

I have no experience working in the industry that I want, namely the audit industry, besides as an audit intern for three months in a medium size audit firm in my kampung when I visited my family. Lately I have decided to go back Malaysia and work in KL, one of the Big 4.

I can choose to stay in Australia or Malaysia and I already know I m lucky enough so please don't bombard me with how lucky I am without reading it further.

Option 1: if I stay in Australia, due to my inexperience, I do not think I will be able to get a job in the audit industry or big four. Also I don't think my English is good enough, I cannot score band 8 for Ielts, I got band 7 which like most of the Malaysians, and so this restricts my employment scope. I have already thought of my worst case scenario, I will work as retail assistant and live a peaceful life here in Australia, enough to feed myself. By that, I will have to forgo what I did for so many years, degree till master, so many years of study, I feel reluctant to not give it a try to work for big four Malaysia or other big companies in Malaysia, and suffering while working in these companies and earning an amount that might not be enough to feed myself.

Option 2: I always wanted to try out big four, although now I am scared by the late working hours and the underpay problems stated by many of the forumers, but I think that's what I should do after so many years of tertiary study, I know this is kinda putting myself at the cutting edge when option 1 is a better choice with the aim of continuing feeding urself and stay alive. I actually chose option 2 with the aim to finish the professional paper in three years time and get myself qualified on the board before I come back Australia. At this stage, I am planning to not give up my PR and want to come back after getting myself qualified in three years time, and that's the only reason I will want to work for big four with the long hours and underpay. I think with that three years, I might put myself in a better position compared to not having a try and live as a retail assistant forever in Australia. At the same time, I am afraid that I cannot manage to finish my professional paper within the three years timeframe and will need to stay longer in Malaysia which will then risking myself to lose my PR in Australia.

If you were me, what would you do? Please feel free to express your opinion, it is much appreciated.

Thank you.

Regards,
mmm92
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Disclosure: I never studied in Australia. In fact, I did all my studies locally in Msia, did my professional accounting papers and worked with one of the Big 4s (in CF dept though) for about 5 years before I move to SG for a year and then finally, to again one of the Big 4s in Sydney doing CF as well.

To give you a bit of comfort: your option 2 is sensible and it will definitely put you in better position to secure a relevant role if you decide to move back to Australia eventually. I have seen a lot of bright candidates who struggled to get a relevant accounting role in Aus as a fresh grad because the competition is too fierce at the graduate level, yet there is generally a shortage of experienced auditors / accountants at the mid-level so if you can survive a few years in Big 4, it will definitely lead you to somewhere, with a bit of luck of course. Having said that, long hours and underpay is not a Msia prob, it is getting common too in Big 4s in Aus, esp Melb and Syd. So you are not missing out anything by not working in Big 4s in Aus (!)

By the way, just FYI, a good retail assistant's pay is almost equivalent to a top junior / mid senior's pay here in Aus. Once you reach the executive level in Australia, you will realise the pay is not as great as tax would have eaten up a quarter of your salary. If you really want to earn and save, SG is a better place.

Irrelevant I guess if your goal is eventually be in Aus anyway. Good luck.



dasecret
post Apr 19 2016, 03:19 PM

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Question - Much have been debated on which firm is better

Have you guys consider the bonus range that each firm offers as part of the consideration of which firm to join?

I was told PwC offer significantly higher bonus for top performers compared to average performers, if same amount of effort, might as well slave for PwC than other Big4 right? Although investment banking even higher in good times

And the thing that I find is a big turn off for EY is, the bonus is paid in 2 tranches, way after you completed the service... ranting.gif
arfalas
post Apr 19 2016, 06:09 PM

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QUOTE(Kesh1018 @ Apr 15 2016, 10:34 PM)
Secured an internship offer at both E&Y and PwC, under IT Risk Advisory.

Dilemma on which to accept.
*
QUOTE(fcuk90 @ Apr 16 2016, 10:14 AM)
You are accounting grad?
IT risk is the good imo, if me ,i would like accept.
*
Hi forumers, I'm also interested in going in the IT Risk Audit field. Though I'm not fresh grad. I've been working as an account executive for a bit more than 2 years now and I feel I want to change field.

Anyone here have any experience in IT Risk? Or have friends in doing it? Any feedback would be great. Thanks!
tzxsean
post Apr 19 2016, 07:58 PM

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QUOTE(dasecret @ Apr 19 2016, 03:19 PM)
Question - Much have been debated on which firm is better

Have you guys consider the bonus range that each firm offers as part of the consideration of which firm to join?

I was told PwC offer significantly higher bonus for top performers compared to average performers, if same amount of effort, might as well slave for PwC than other Big4 right? Although investment banking even higher in good times

And the thing that I find is a big turn off for EY is, the bonus is paid in 2 tranches, way after you completed the service...  ranting.gif
*
It's to retain employees ... Imagine you going to audit with newbies for big cases due to no other senior staffs during peak period

dasecret
post Apr 20 2016, 10:04 AM

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QUOTE(tzxsean @ Apr 19 2016, 07:58 PM)
It's to retain employees ... Imagine you going to audit with newbies for big cases due to no other senior staffs during peak period
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No doubt. But you as employee, do you like that your performance bonus is paid in tranches months after you completed the year of service?

Just saying that you have a choice within the Big4, and the Firms doing stuffs like this will eventually need to conform to market practices if they want to be competitive

Compare la the big ticket items like this, not mileage claim or parking charges brows.gif
loverukianini
post Apr 20 2016, 11:08 AM

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Hi guys, I've been reading this post recently and have got some queries hoping sifus here could clarify for me.

1) im an acca student and will be taking my last 2 papers this coming june. Should I start appying in may if I wish to start working in july as been told by one of big 4 recruiter to apply 2 months in advance.

But at the same time, I also worry that I might lack sufficient time to prepare and revise the IAS and types of questions that might be asked should they would call me up for interview and online assessment etc (let's be optimistic) as the forumers say ey and kpmg/deloitte would respond in a week time since im preparing for my finals now.
How long does it usually take from initial application to issued of offer letter?

2) is it more difficult to get into penang branch as compared to kl due to it being regional and therefore has lower turnover?

Would working in penang big4 limit my possibility of working overseas in the future as the employer may discount my experience perceiving regional office is smaller and hence lower exposure?

3) let's say I work for 1 year and leave (work holiday in other country for 1 year), is it still possible to get back to the same co or other big 4? Would this make my resume look bad to hr as they may think I cannot bear the pressure in big 4 or whatsoever? (Cuz it's better to have worked up to 2yrs and leaving as a senior?)

4) the last option for me would be to go for internship in one of the big 4. Upon completion of internship, go for work and holiday for 1 yr. After that, come back and start applying jobs. Is this feasible? Would I stand a lower chance than b4 cuz I have 1 yr gap since I completed my studies and may not be favourable to them cuz my memory not fresh anymore? Lol

Im sorry to bambard u guys with so many questions.
I really need yr help, thank u in advance.
Justin Wong
post Apr 20 2016, 08:19 PM

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QUOTE(Manada @ Apr 19 2016, 08:47 PM)
Hey guys Im wondering how is the consulting line in the BIG 4s? I heard consulting is not their niche and their consulting is "cincai cincai" half-past six type of work?

Which BIG 4 got good consulting department?
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Consulting is overrated, seriously.

First of all, I am of the opinion that consulting work are generally very fluffy and technically less rigorous - compared to other niche areas of consulting with technically heavy roles such as Corporate Finance, Data Analytics and IT consulting or operational research. This is the same for MBBs (Mckinsey, BCG and Bain), although the difference is that they tend to do more strategy piece and hence more interesting because of the conceptualisation work, as compared to operational and implementation work which is the main turf for the Big 4 consulting arms.

Having said that, operational and implementation work is more rewarding now these days due to the drying up of high profile, big ticket strategy work (and maybe clients get smarter too - why would anyone wish to pay outsider / young guns to advise seasoned CEO and give them some fluffy '10 year plan'?).

Based on my experience dealing with the Big 4s and myself working in Big 4 as well (I worked with consulting teams to support them on technical financial analysis and modelling), I would say Deloitte is pretty strong on the top of the chart, with a strong and dynamic regional team. EY and PwC are probably comparable though my gut feeling is that EY gets bigger volume of biz compared to PwC. I have never dealt with KPMG so I can't comment. Of course, empires rise and fall and things are constantly changing. I might be wrong.

Consulting department generally prefer to hire overseas grads / top local grads with a lot of credentials to show. They all exhibit qualities of strong command of english and charming personality, nothing uncommon for a typical consultant.

Consulting is mainly about people and process management and communicating ideas in a accessible manner - if you can deliver those aspects, then there is no such thing as 'cincai'. if you are talking in terms of technicality, then we are on the wrong topic. If you have been reading and observing the market, consulting is a growing business for the Big 4s and it is compensating the stagnant growth in audit and tax. Clients are willing to pay consulting because there is an emphasis for relationship and "be on-board with the client" - and they dig that. Sometimes, you get paid not because you are technically strong - it is a commodity these days - if is how well you know the client and how much they like you to be part of their team. Relationship pays. That is what consulting is all about and it is still something that conventional accountants find it hard to appreciate.

This post has been edited by Justin Wong: Apr 20 2016, 08:21 PM
WhyNotYouTeachMe
post Apr 20 2016, 08:35 PM

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going to have group interview tomorrow, pretty nervous myself rclxub.gif
Justin Wong
post Apr 20 2016, 08:43 PM

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QUOTE(loverukianini @ Apr 20 2016, 11:08 AM)
Hi guys, I've been reading this post recently and have got some queries hoping sifus here could clarify for me.

1) im an acca student and will be taking my last 2 papers this coming june. Should I start appying in may if I wish to start working in july as been told by one of big 4 recruiter to apply 2 months in advance.

But at the same time, I also worry that  I might lack sufficient time to prepare and revise the IAS and types of questions that might be asked should they would call me up for interview and online assessment etc (let's be optimistic) as the forumers say ey and kpmg/deloitte would respond in a week time since im preparing for my finals now.
How long does it usually take from initial application to issued of offer letter?
                                                     
2) is it more difficult to get into penang branch as compared to kl due to it being regional and therefore has lower turnover?

Would working in penang big4 limit my possibility of working overseas in the future as the employer may discount my experience perceiving regional office is smaller and hence lower exposure?

3) let's say I work for 1 year and leave (work holiday in other country for 1 year), is it still possible to get back to  the same co or other big 4? Would this make my resume look bad to hr as they may think I cannot bear the pressure in big 4 or whatsoever?  (Cuz it's better to have worked up to 2yrs and leaving as a senior?)

4) the last option for me would be to go for internship in one of the big 4. Upon completion of internship, go for work and holiday for 1 yr. After that, come back and start applying jobs. Is this feasible?  Would I stand a lower chance than b4 cuz I have 1 yr gap since I completed my studies and may not be favourable to them cuz my memory not fresh anymore? Lol

Im sorry to bambard u guys with so many questions.
I really need yr help, thank u in advance.
*
Hi there,

1) For audit/tax and fresh grad, yes it is at most 2 weeks. I am not sure if you can prepare for anything so just go with the flow (let's be honest, it probably only help like 20%)

2) Generally yes because of low turnover, and you should consider that because low turnover also means slower promotion compared to bigger cities. If your 'Overseas' meant Australia, UK, US, then yes very likely.

3) The turnover is so high to a point of difficulty getting experienced candidate, you might be able to get your job back if you decide to leave, esp if you are in good terms with your managers or partners. Lucky plays some role too.

4) No point doing an internship, the pay sucks. My suggestion is to go in directly as fresh graduate. I don't know about the holiday part as it is personal choice. I don't think employers would or should look at that in a negative light. It is unreasonable.

it looks like you are just not confident enough - don't overthink and be more confident - it shows and it helps in your interview and your work performance. Trust Me.

Cheers
Justin Wong
post Apr 20 2016, 08:56 PM

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QUOTE(Manada @ Apr 20 2016, 08:41 PM)
Thanks for your insights. Btw does the BIG 4 hire interns or fresh grad in their consulting line? What is the daily schedule of a consultant in Deloitte? Do they travel a lot to other states or possibly other countries to client's office?

I'm currently looking for internship opportunities in the consulting line, and Accenture gave me a good response so far.
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The last I heard, there are heavier travelling since it is a regional team (Covering SG, Msia, Indonesia, etc). I am not sure if things have changed. I had friends working in Accenture and they travel a lot regionally as well I heard.

Notwithstanding what i said about being less technically rigorous, consulting does train you well in synthesising information and presenting complex ideas in a simple way - a very practical skill that will serve you well in years to come - if you can keep up with the consulting game and the demanding schedule.

Accenture should give you a very good exposure as well as CV bragging rights. They pay well too as compared to Big4s. Hope you get it and good luck!

Eddx
post Apr 21 2016, 11:55 AM

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QUOTE(Kesh1018 @ Apr 15 2016, 10:34 PM)
Secured an internship offer at both E&Y and PwC, under IT Risk Advisory.

Dilemma on which to accept.
*
If you are up for a lot of different environment and client, go for EY.

QUOTE(arfalas @ Apr 19 2016, 06:09 PM)
Hi forumers, I'm also interested in going in the IT Risk Audit field. Though I'm not fresh grad. I've been working as an account executive for a bit more than 2 years now and I feel I want to change field.

Anyone here have any experience in IT Risk? Or have friends in doing it? Any feedback would be great. Thanks!
*
IT Risk is quite enjoyable, not too extreme long working hours. But that all boils down to what client and which industry they are in.

Anything you wanted to know? I am in the IT Risk.


red_apples
post Apr 22 2016, 09:44 AM

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QUOTE(WhyNotYouTeachMe @ Apr 20 2016, 08:35 PM)
going to have group interview tomorrow, pretty nervous myself  rclxub.gif
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Hey! Can I know which firm are you going for the interview? Thanks!
red_apples
post Apr 22 2016, 09:49 AM

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Hi!

To those working full time in audit and attending classes during the weekends, what is it like? What advice would you give as I will be doing the same thing? Could you maybe share how is your schedule roughly like?

Thanks! biggrin.gif
ComingBackSoon
post Apr 22 2016, 11:45 AM

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QUOTE(red_apples @ Apr 22 2016, 09:49 AM)
Hi!

To those working full time in audit and attending classes during the weekends, what is it like? What advice would you give as I will be doing the same thing? Could you maybe share how is your schedule roughly like?

Thanks! biggrin.gif
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I worked full time and took the CFA. I do not do weekend classes. What I do is I take 1 month leave just before the exam and cramp everything in that 1 month.

Worked well for the past 2 years, coming June will hopefully be the last sitting.



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