Oh what turmoil.
Sorry I was just looking at Pehkey post and just reply because it seems a little bit strange to me.

edited

This post has been edited by sylar111: Oct 3 2014, 05:33 PM

Well, who are we to question which part of the bible is important and which part of the bible is not important.

Didn't Paul say that All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

So how can you say that this part of the bible is not important or that part of the bible is not important.

And I was replying to Pehkey so you need to understand my argument first in the first place.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Oct 3 2014, 05:47 PM

Ok la, i don't how to explain further what i am trying to say already. Macam DIGI talk to Maxis. Need face to face meet up yum cha talk easier

Do you know 14-9-2015? He uses the exact phrase "Bema Seat Judgement".

1) I won't know ... only that it won't be pleasant. Matthew describe it as "outer darkness". 1 Corinthians (which I quoted) we will be saved as through fire. In Matthew 18 the Lord spoke of a believer who did not forgive from the heart his brother who had offended him. When the Lord comes to judge the believers, that is, “to settle accounts with his slaves” (v. 23), He will deliver such a one “to the torturers,” that is, He will cause him to be punished in the millennium until he forgives his brother from his heart (vv. 34-35). This shows that some believers’ sins will be forgiven only after punishment in the millennium. If a believer sins after being saved, he can be forgiven and chastised by God for some sins in this age, that is, today. But some sins can be forgiven only after the believer is punished in the millennium.

2) It will be in the realm of speculation as I don't know. But how He deals with us today as in the experiences of Jacob. I bet that time, it will be intensified. I won't know ;D. Where? Does it matter? Probably on earth.


If the New Jerusalem seem real ... then can you say the throne is God and a physical Lamb? Or it is the wife of the Lamb and the mother of the believers. I think the first verse in Revelation gives use the key:

The revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to Him to show to His slaves the things that must quickly take place; and He made it known by signs, sending it by His angel to His slave John,


If you believe that all will be matured, then you have to interpret these verses which I brought up to him:

https://forum.lowyat.net/index.php?showtopi...&#entry68863804

Also, I don't really have time .... but here is something:

The first judgment is that exercised by God when the Lord Jesus was on the cross. The crucifixion of the Lord was a judgment, for the righteous God judged the Lord Jesus as our Substitute. Hence, the Lord Jesus was judged by God on our behalf.

Second, in the church age God exercises another kind of judgment, and this is God’s judgment over His house. First Peter 4:17 says, “It is time for the judgment to begin from the house of God.” God’s house, or household, is the church composed of the believers (1 Pet. 2:5; 1 Tim. 3:15). God judges His people so that they may be disciplined, purified, and separated from the unbelievers and not have the same destiny as they. Such disciplinary judgment begins from God’s own household. Therefore, if we are careless in doing things, we shall be judged. Instead of judgment, we may speak of being disciplined, chastised, or corrected. However, discipline, chastisement, and correction are actually God’s judgment. God is always right and righteous, and He will not allow anything under His rule to be wrong. For this reason, He sometimes judges us.

The third kind of judgment in the New Testament will be the judgment of the believers at the judgment seat of Christ. After all the dead saints have been resurrected and raptured and all the living ones have been raptured, a judgment seat will be set up for Christ to judge all His genuine believers. This judgment will determine whether a believer receives a reward or some kind of dispensational punishment. Paul says, “We must all be manifested before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may be recompensed for the things done through the body, according to what he has practiced, whether good or bad” (2 Cor. 5:10). This judgment seat is where Christ will judge His believers at His coming back, not concerning eternal salvation but concerning their dispensational reward (1 Cor. 4:4-5; 3:13-15).

Another verse that speaks of the believers being judged is Romans 14:10, where Paul tells us, “We shall all stand before the judgment seat of God.” This judgment is different from the eternal judgment of God mentioned in Romans 2:2, 3, 5, 16 and 3:8, which will be mainly carried out at the white throne revealed in Revelation 20:11-15. The eternal judgment at the white throne will be after the millennium, it will be to judge all the dead unbelievers, and it will be for eternal punishment in the lake of fire. However, the judgment at the judgment seat of God, or the judgment seat of Christ, will be before the millennium, immediately after Christ’s coming back, it will be to judge all the resurrected and raptured believers, and it will be for reward in the millennial kingdom.

The fourth judgment revealed in the New Testament is the judgment of the living at Christ’s throne of glory (Matt. 25:31-46). After the Lord Jesus defeats Antichrist and his army, many of the Gentiles will still be living on earth. The Lord will gather them to Himself and judge them. “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He shall sit on His throne of glory; and all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats” (vv. 31-32). Those that are regarded as sheep will be transferred into the millennium to be the people under the kingly ruling of Christ and the overcoming believers (Rev. 2:26-27; 12:5; 20:4-6) and under the priestly ministry of the saved Jews (Zech. 8:20-23). Those that are regarded as goats will go with their leader, Antichrist, “into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels” (Matt. 25:41).

The fifth judgment in the New Testament will be executed by Christ on the dead unbelievers after the millennium. Christ is the Judge of both the living and the dead (Acts 10:42; 2 Tim. 4:1). Whereas the living will be judged before the millennium, the dead will be judged afterward, as revealed in Revelation 20:11-15, the judgment at the great white throne. The unbelievers will be condemned by the Lord because of their evil deeds, and then they will perish because of their unbelief, not having their names written in the book of life. Therefore, at the great white throne Christ will judge the dead unbelievers to determine their eternal perdition.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 3 2014, 06:12 PM

Well. If you consider those as God's dealing you are reading too much in the text.

Normally you associate God's dealing as something much more heavier then those things.

Something like God asking Abraham to kill Issac. That is what I considered real testing.

Maybe the only case you have is losing Joseph. But then it has nothing to do with Supplant or whatever you are teaching.

Just google "supplanter jacob" ...

Well, if you only look at the major milestones ... then of course .... On the one hand God deals with man by giving him a "fundamental" dealing, A fundamental dealing means that there is no returning to our former condition. When God's light to expose our true nature. Once it is exposed, we are no longer able to return to or recover our old condition.

But God also do deal with men in a fragmentary way. Small incremental dealings which eventually lead to a major "fundamental" dealing. There are environments which God prepared that will expose us more and more.

Fragmentary dealings are like symptomatic cures in medical treatment. Fundamental dealings are like major operations, and supplementary dealings are like post-operative treatments of supplemental medications that help recover the health of the body. Fragmentary dealings must be accompanied by fundamental dealings before the former will become beneficial to a person.

Actually, I can say that most of what you wrote here is speculation.

There wasn't any verses in the bible that states that believers may have to undergo punishment in the milleanium.

Anyway, PehKey. If we were to pay for our sins. It's not going to be a millenium. It will be for eternity.
Your point on Matthew 18 is moot. Yes, that person has to now pay the full penalty which is due. And this penalty is eternal death.

Even your example on Corinthians 3:13-15 is talking about reward and not punishment.

Haiyo. We are saved by faith not by works. Why are you bringing works in? So that means you do not believe that Christ blood is not enough to cover our sins? Ok

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Again wrong.

You see, if "bad Christians" are punished for the millenium, then why would there be weeping and gnashing of teeth? You see, they should in fact take their punishment because since they know the truth even more, then there is nothing to regret about. After all, what is a thousand years compared to eternity. The fact that there is regret shows that there is no more redemption.

I can dispute all of your teachings using the word of God as shown here but then it will be pointless.

I know supplanter. I mean come on. And I also know you purposely use complicated words to confuse us.

You think I am not prepared?

As explained earlier, those kind of dealings are just natural events that even normal people like us faces. There is no concrete evidence that those dealings are even related to Jacob's supplant.

Are you a bible scholar or pastor?

If you are still around here .... go and enjoy the Lord with the saints at the group meeting .....


shoo shoo shoooo XD

I'm still contemplating about the 3rd judgement.

Let me pray about it.

I am not familiar with word "with the saints"... are you implying he is catholic ? this one u know lah me ya... i ask honestly bro...

No ... Catholic uses the saints to refers to people they recognize for exceptional holiness according to their ... I am sure either.

Saints are separated ones, those who have been set apart to God.

In 1 Cor 1:2, verse Paul says that we have been “sanctified in Christ Jesus.” We are sanctified in the element and sphere of Christ. Christ is the element and sphere that separated us, made us holy, unto God when we believed in Him, that is, when we were brought into organic union with Him through our faith in Him.



So, when we see a brother, he is a saint!! Wow ... talk about perspective.

Many readers of 1 Corinthians find it difficult to recognize that the believers in Corinth were saints. To be sure, according to the Catholic definition, they were not saints. According to Catholicism, only certain persons, such as Theresa or Francis, can rightfully be called saints. We may wonder how the fleshly believers in Corinth could be called saints. Nevertheless, it is in the Word that Paul describes them as those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus and called saints.

God does not look at us as we are in ourselves; rather, he looks at us in Christ. This may be illustrated by the words the prophet Balaam uttered about the children of Israel. Apparently the children of Israel were full of evil. But when Balaam prophesied concerning them, he declared, “He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel” (Num. 23:21). Likewise, Paul knew all the evil things about the church in Corinth. Nevertheless, in his opening word he addressed them as those sanctified in Christ Jesus, and he called them saints.

Ehh? wassup!!

for 1) and 2) you answered that you don't know.
The answer is simple: It's because it isn’t in the Bible!

Mainstream Christianity doesn't teach temporary punishment or something like a Catholic 'purgatory'.

Bema Seat Judgement is correct . This judgement is ONLY for those saved.

It is where the raptured saints & the resurrected saints of the past (dead in Christ) get their 'rewards'.

The word Bema in Greek literally means 'Judgement Seat' (βῆμα).

During games in ancient times, the victors are rewarded. There is NO PUNISHMENT dished out during the BEMA seat Judgement. Therefore, this event should not strike fear and dread in believers, as opposed to what you are promoting.

Its a 'prize giving' ceremony. Now, the degree of rewards depends on how you live/obedient in your Christian life here, AFTER you have received salvation through faith in Christ.

But its still a time of joy for everyone nonetheless. Here is a verse from the Parable of the Talents:

Matthew 25:23 His master replied, 'Well done, thou good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master's happiness!'

I believe though, that all the saints will be given different tasks of differing magnitudes, during the 1000 year millennial reign, according to what they were rewarded with, at the Bema Seat Judgement, among other rewards (5 types of crowns, etc)


Here is another verse : 1 Corinthians 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.

The verse above tells us to come to the foot of the cross for cleansing. We can always go to the Lord in prayer to ask for forgiveness with a heart of repentance. That is what our loving heavenly father wants us to do! To draw close to him. We are washed by the blood of Christ & cleansed of our sins when we go to him. So tell me, how will there be condemnation after you die? Why the need for 'maturity training' or whatever u call it?

Regarding your verse :

1 Corinthians 3:15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved--even though only as one escaping through the flames.

The above verse is perfectly applicable to those death-bed conversions that somebody mentioned. They will be SAVED by the skin of their teeth, but most probably will not get much rewards at the BEMA seat Judgement simply b'cos, well, errrr.......they only had say a total of 10 mins as a Christian in this life?

Regarding your other verse :

Matthew 25:30 Now throw this useless servant into outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

I think this is whr we disagree. Those cast into outer darkness are non-believers. They were NEVER Christians in the 1st place.

Also, most scholars agree tat 'outer darkness' in this context means eternal punishment/hell. This verse says nothing about immature Christians who require further training in the 1000 year Millennial. Its either u are SAVED, or NOT. Simple.

As i said b4, all Christians are overcomers. In which capacity will they serve in, during the Millennial reign of Christ, depends entirely on what they were 'rewarded' with at the BEMA seat Judgement.





Finally, please explain yourself on what you quoted (i higlighted in BLUE above). Thanks!






errr......i said no such thing . Besides, what has your comparison gotta do wif the New Jerusalem?

Fact is, the Bible mentions that it is the home of the resurrected saints & it's definitely visible to those who populate the Earth during the 1000 year Millennial Kingdom. While they can't enter it just yet, b'cos they're still in their earthly bodies, but they no doubt can see it.





Yes, i'm fully aware about the other judgements, the separation of the goats & sheep at the end of the 7-yr Tribulation as well as the Great White Throne Judgement(for non-believers only) at the end of Christ's 1000 years Millennial Kingdom.

This post has been edited by 14-9-2015: Oct 4 2014, 08:05 AM

Yo bro Steven Gai ,

the Bible tells us to meditate upon the Word & His goodness.

Philippians 4:8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

Emptying the mind through hynopsis & all those New Age mumbo-jumbo, frankly, i find disturbing & goes against wat we r told to do.

Many a times, that's exactly how non-believers get demon possessed. Try not to give the devil a foothold by taking part in all these 'funny' things.

Not NLP ( neuro-linguistic programming ) , not CHAKRA opening & certainly not hypnosis.

I submit myself to the full authority of Christ my Saviour.

When i'm sad /happy /depressed/poor /stressed /sick , i go to Him in prayer.

Morning Fellow Christians.

Have You guys spend time in prayer to our Father In Heaven already?


Just a thought, when our Lord Jesus made reference to weeping and gnashing of teeth, it's very possible he's not referring to born again believers but to the Israelites or anyone who insist on going back to the law, rejecting his grace and thus rejecting him.

I'm not suggesting anything, just something for you guys to ponder.

Look through all the connected verses and see when Jesus spoke about that He was talking most of the time in the presence of the Jews who rejected him.
And He spoke in Parables to them before explaining about weeping and gnashing to his disciples. And He make many references to the Teachers of the Law and the Pharisees.



Just a thought.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 4 2014, 09:16 AM

de1929

UW

Thanks. You simply strengthen me personally.

OOT: I am curious what's GOD's plan for this forum. There are a lot of silent reader and i am sure GOD leads them here for a reason.

I hope everyone goes to Church. This cannot replace Church but here is where we can come together as one body of Christ to meet and encourage each other.

Hebrews 10:23-25 (NIV)
23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds,
25 not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.



If we are encouraging one another in the Lord, we are doing the right thing.

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 4 2014, 10:56 AM