What i got:
Joseph: PM Najib
Pharaoh: Sultan Malaysia
Jacob: PM mahathir mohamad

altough mahathir is not a father for najib, I can see up to "certain degree" that Mahathir still "ruling" malaysia by influencing / advising PM Najib. Same as how jacob advise joseph. executive decision still with PM najib, jacob also did not executive power from pharaoh that time.

Sultan malaysia / Pharaoh same thing: A symbol of monarch for a given country. Executive decision is not with them, with somebody else.

I hope i am not talking politics or give bad credits to malaysian leaders; if yes kindly accept my apology.

Come on.

Where in that passage is there any indication that Jacob = Mahathir. You are only interpreting from PehKey point of view. Is that what the bible says?

Where in the passage did Jacob advise Joseph pertaining to how should Joseph rule? Jacob only reunited with Joseph during the famine

Where in the bibble passage did it mention that Joseph is actually reigning? I believe at that time if the Pharoah wanted, he could take back all of the power given to Joseph.

Show me.

Dun just make assertions. Because anyone can make assertions.

no need to show lahh.. just trust.. or else you will ended up atheist if ask too many question.

why ? cuz at the end, there are a lot of bible mistery that's not resolved. Wait until you go to heaven (if you are christian) then all of your questions will be satisfied.

to answer your question: I prayed to GOD, that's the revelation.

Anyone can make assertions, but it does not mean that Jesus is backing up my assertions... wanna proof ?

Trust who? Bible or Pehkey.

Anyway. If your revelation is more powerful then the bible, then i guess you dun need the bible anymore.

And God's Word is not funny. So please dun play around.

This post has been edited by sylar111: Oct 3 2014, 12:39 PM

Not really Who wants to be dealt with

But without the experience of life portrayed by Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ... there is no Israel

Then, the believers as the church cannot be the Israel of God (Gal 6:16), representing God, exercising His authority, and carrying out His administration on earth for the fulfillment of His purpose.

The Bible doesn't agree with being chosen? You are very vague with your statement? What does the verses in Hebrew with related to what you are asking?


Dealings?

1) Fighting in the womb
2) Supplanting his brother causing his brother to want to kill him
3) He has to flee all his life
4) Laban cheating him, wages + Leah
5) 2 sons killing a town
6) daughter got raped
7) losing Rachel, the love of his life
8) Joseph

and the list goes on

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 3 2014, 12:56 PM

You have to understand that in experience of life (divine) portrayed by Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob with Joseph each represent an aspect of the experience of life.
Jacob stands for the transformed life and Joseph represents the ruling aspect, the kingly aspect, of this transformed life. They represent one whole person

This fulfilled Gen 1:26 image and dominion at least portrayed in OT.

We were made for the purpose of expressing God and exercising His dominion. The subject of Genesis is man bearing the image of God and exercising God's dominion over all things. We bear God's image that we might express Him, and we have God's dominion that we might represent Him. This is the heart of Genesis.

In order to know this in a progressive way, we need all fifty chapters of this book. All the generations recorded in it—Adam, Abel, Enosh, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and Joseph—are for one purpose: to show that God's economy in the universe is to express Himself through man. This is God's purpose, God's goal, and the desire of God's heart. God's purpose and economy are related to man.

The record of all the generations included in this book is a portrait of God's divine economy. In Adam we do not see much of God's expression and dominion. Although Abel believed in God, we do not clearly see in him God's expression and dominion. Enosh realized that he was fragile and weak, and he began to call on the name of the Lord. But in him we scarcely see God's expression or dominion. Enoch walked with God. Therefore, we see in him a little of God's expression; however, we see nothing of God's dominion. Although with Noah we do see a little of God's expression and dominion, it is rather vague; it is not definite, impressive, or clear. In Abraham we see less of God's expression and dominion than we do in Noah. Although many Christians have overly exalted Abraham, he was only on the first level of the doctrine of Christ. Abraham was the father of faith for justification, which is merely the beginning of the doctrine of Christ. Furthermore, we can hardly see God's expression and dominion in Isaac. Isaac, the one who inherited everything from his father, only cared for eating. As long as he was given something good to eat, he would grant his blessing blindly.

It is in Jacob that we see the expression of God. However, prior to the last fourteen chapters of this book, we do not see much of God's expression in Jacob. But in these last chapters we do see in him very much of the expression of God and the dominion of God. Although in this section Jacob was old in years, his spiritual eyes were very keen. Wherever he went, he perceived the real situation and blessed people accordingly. Moreover, his blessing became God's prophecy. Jacob truly bore the image of God and expressed Him. Even Pharaoh, the highest ruler at that time, was under Jacob's blessing. When Jacob was brought into the presence of Pharaoh, Jacob did not say, "Hello, how are you? How old are you?" Rather, he stretched forth his hand and blessed him (47:7, 10). This indicates that Pharaoh was under Jacob, the one who was God's expression.

Here in Jacob we see a man who was one with God and who expressed God.

But what about God's dominion? The book of Genesis ends with Joseph exercising dominion over the whole earth. Although Pharaoh was the king, he was merely a figurehead. The acting king was Joseph, who is a part of Jacob in the experience of life. In Jacob with Joseph we see the expression of God with the dominion of God. Never separate Joseph from Jacob. The record of the last fourteen chapters of Genesis mixes the two together. This indicates that Joseph is the reigning part of Jacob, and that Jacob and Joseph should not be considered as separate persons.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 3 2014, 01:33 PM

I think he meant there.

Aaah .. thanks ... I might have misunderstood his question ... let me edit my answer.

.... all this while .... no one actually bothered ... why the pm now?

I think besides that, sylar111 also wish to know the life-application (Exegesis) of the passage or point you shared.

huh, how you know no one bothered?

We just post and leave it to the Holy Spirit to bring in fellow Christians to read.

There are many silent readers in this forum. I noticed the views of our thread have increase tremendously.

I also think thanks to the previous errrrr stirring of this thread by that troll.

(haha Romans 8:28)

This post has been edited by unknown warrior: Oct 3 2014, 01:49 PM

Ah yoh ... don't tell me .... people think it's about ruling physically????!!

Hahahahahahah

In the coming age, Christ may reward us to be kings .... but today, if we are not even reigning spiritually, how can rule over others? .... The training to be kings begins now.

Are we under the throne? Is God enthroned within us? Do God have a say in our being, our decisions, our family, our choices??? Is He the Head?

In Romans, reigning in life also implies, that we experience sanctification, renewing, transformation, conformation and glorification by the abundance of grace. By enjoying Christ, we can live a reigning life for the Body life:

Not thinking more highly of ourselves than we ought to think—12:3a.
Thinking so as to be sober-minded, as God has apportioned to each a measure of faith—12:3b.
Considering that we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function—12:4.
Realizing that we who are many are one Body in Christ and individually members one of another, having gifts that differ according to the grace given to us—12:5-8:
Prophesying as prophets according to the proportion of faith—v. 6.
Serving as deacons and deaconesses faithfully in their particular service—v. 7a.
Teaching as teachers faithfully in teaching—v. 7b.
Exhorting as one who exhorts faithfully in exhortation—v. 8a.
Giving as givers in simplicity—v. 8b.
Leading as leaders in diligence—v. 8c.
Showing mercy as one who shows mercy in cheerfulness—v. 8d.

Living the highest morality by the divine life - 12:9-21:

Loving people without hypocrisy—v. 9a.
Abhorring what is evil and clinging to what is good—v. 9b.
Loving one another warmly in brotherly love—v. 10a.
Taking the lead in showing honor one to another—v. 10b.
Not being slothful in zeal—v. 11a.
Being burning in spirit, serving the Lord—v. 11b.
Rejoicing in hope—v. 12a.
Enduring in tribulation—v. 12b.
Persevering in prayer—v. 12c.
Contributing to the needs of the saints—v. 13a.
Pursuing hospitality—v. 13b.
Blessing those who persecute us; blessing only and not cursing—v. 14.
Rejoicing with those who rejoice; weeping with those who weep—v. 15.
Being of the same mind toward one another—v. 16a.
Not setting our mind on the high things but going along with the lowly—v. 16b.
Not being wise in ourselves—v. 16c.
Repaying no one evil for evil—v. 17a.
Taking forethought for things honorable in the sight of all men—v. 17b.
If possible, as far as it depends on us, living in peace with all men—v. 18.
Not avenging ourselves, but giving place to the wrath of God; for vengeance is God's, He will repay—v. 19.
Feeding our enemy in hunger and giving him a drink in thirst; for in doing this we will heap coals of fire upon his head—v. 20.
Not being conquered by evil, but conquering evil with good—v. 21.

These are examples of reigning in life, not by own effort but God's divine operation in working our actions. But to reach this goal, God WILL DEAL WITH US our whole life [just like Jacob].

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 3 2014, 02:01 PM

Just a question :

I would like to know about those last minute saints, those who died on their death beds (death bed conversions). How would they have had the chance to 'train to be kings' then?

Also, my understanding is that physical Israel will still be here during the millennium kingdom. New Jerusalem is very much a city that 'floats' above the Earth. Its measurements are even given in the Bible.

2-3) He Managed to make peace with his brother. I dun consider that God's dealing.
4) Even though Labal cheated him, but he still managed to take advantage of the situation. I mean did Jacob actually lost out?
5)arrr Is that even considered God's dealing?
6)Ok. But then the daughter got avenged right? I mean you seriously considered that as God dealing with Jacob. Then how about David, etc.
7)Natural Death
8)Joseph in wat way. He eventually saved the whole family right? I mean Joseph leaving the family is a blessing in the end.

What list.

I have even written the verse down and you are asking?

Anyway.

Exegesis is not life application.

Oh well.

Hi

Hmmm ... as I don't know you or your understanding concerning salvation and the matter of reward. For me, in my understanding of the Bible, there is a two-fold truth: on the one hand, we are saved [wonderful!], we are saved eternally. Yet, on the other hand, there is a matter of the reward for the overcomers.

“If anyone’s work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward” (1 Cor. 3:14).
“If anyone’s work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire” (1 Cor. 3:15).

Unfortunately, we can only praise the Lord, for those who just before dying, believe and receive salvation. But definitely they are not matured. This is why there is a matter of the millennium (1000 years) - the age of the kingdom - in which all those who are not matured will be perfected.

Regarding the millennium:

The heavenly section of the millennial kingdom will be composed of all the Old Testament and New Testament overcomers. This is indicated by the Lord’s word in Matthew 8:11: “I say to you that many will come from the east and the west and will recline at table with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens.” This word refers to the manifestation of the kingdom of the heavens. In the manifestation of the kingdom the overcoming Gentile believers will feast with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and with all the other Old Testament overcomers. As the overcomers participate in the feast of the kingdom of the heavens, they will drink the cup of the new covenant anew with their Lord (26:29).

The earthly section of the millennial kingdom will be the restored kingdom of Israel—the kingdom of David (Acts 1:6; Mark 11:10). In the Old Testament the Lord promised the Jewish people that the Messiah, the anointed One, would come to inherit the throne of David and restore the Jewish nation, that is, the nation of Israel (Gen. 49:10; 2 Sam. 7:13, 16; Psa. 2:8-9; 72:1-20; 89:4; 110:2-3; Isa. 9:6-7; 11:1-5, 10; Jer. 23:5-6; 30:9; 33:14-17; Ezek. 21:27; 34:23-24; 37:24-25; Dan. 2:35; 7:14; Hosea 3:5; Amos 9:11-12; Zech. 3:8; 6:12-13; 9:9-10). When the Lord Jesus came the first time, the Jews were expecting the Messiah to restore His kingdom (Luke 2:25; 3:15; 7:19; John 1:41; 7:27, 41). However, it will not be until the Lord’s second coming that He will restore the Messianic kingdom (Matt. 23:39). The kingdom that the Messiah will restore—the kingdom of Messiah or the kingdom of Israel to be restored in the future—will be the earthly part of the millennium, the tabernacle of David which the Lord will rebuild (Acts 15:16). The Lord will sit on the throne of David and reign over the house of Jacob, that is, the Jewish people (Luke 1:32-33), and He will rule over the nations of the earth during the millennium (Psa. 2:8; 72:8; Dan. 7:14; 2:35).

The New Jerusalem will NOT BE A PHYSICAL CITY. The heavenly section of the millennial kingdom will actually be the New Jerusalem in the millennial age [not eternity].

The New Jerusalem is the union and mingling of all God’s redeemed through all the four ages of the forefathers, the law, grace, and the kingdom with the processed and consummated Triune God. It is thus a union and mingling of the redeemed with the redeeming God.

The New Jerusalem, like the Body of Christ, is an organic constitution constituted with the redeeming processed and consummated Triune God and the redeemed, transformed, and glorified tripartite men as an organism of the consummated Triune God for His eternal enlargement and expression through the glorified tripartite men.

[I am excited when saying this]

At the time of millennium, the reality of it will be the overcomers only while the defeated believers will be perfected. In eternity future, all will be matured to be the New Jerusalem, the ultimate consummation

Men was given dominion of the Earth initially but because of sin, they lost that. I mean a very good example, does Men has dominion over snakes, Lions and Tigers? Before the temptation probably yes. But after obviously no.

Anyway out of point totally.

Nope. The Pharoah is the real ruler. He only delegated power to Joseph that's all.

Again assumptions. No where in the bible did it ever mentioned that Jacob ever influence Joseph.

Anyone and I mean anyone who has basic litetary skills will understand that Pharoah was no figurehead. That same Pharoah had the same power as the pharoah during Moses period.

Well, why not. Because you say so?

Again, I really do not want to get into a debate with you because it's going to be a never ending story. I will let the people judge for themselves.

Actually if you read Genesis 41, Pharaoh is only a figure head, Joseph become the Ruler.

Huh? I am not asking for a list ... I meant the list of dealings goes on ... Dealings are not big things always ... it is always the normal, small details of our life that God touches and deals. All happenings is in God's hand.

2-3) He made peace? Lol He was so cunning ... always trying to stay ahead of things ... He even put the women and children in front .... so that there is time to escape God deals with his supplants-ness.

"And Jacob lifted up his eyes, and looked, and, behold, Esau came, and with him four hundred men. And he divided the children unto Leah, and unto Rachel, and unto the two handmaids. And he put the handmaids and their children foremost, and Leah and her children after, and Rachel and Joseph hindermost. And he passed over before them, and bowed himself to the ground seven times, until he came near to his brother." He was still as cunning as before. He even bowed down seven times to the ground before his brother. Verse 4 says, "And Esau ran to meet him, and embraced him, and fell on his neck, and kissed him: and they wept." Jacob did not expect that his schemes would not be needed and that all his plans were in vain. God's protection was real. All he needed was a little faith and he could have avoided much vexation and fear! Esau did not try to kill him; rather, he was coming to welcome him. He embraced Jacob, fell on his neck, and kissed him. All of Jacob's cleverness and plans came to nothing!

5) We all have our "Laban" . - boss, friends, colleague etc.
On the marriage day you thought that your wife is your Rachel .... it turn out to be Leah. All married man can testify this ... Many times we have a lot of "Rachels - heart treasure" in us and it turn to "Leahs".

After he lost Rachel, the first choice of his natural love [that was a blow]. He lost Joseph ... the son of the love of his life. How is this not a dealing? Throughout the time, Jacob never had any closure ... he never knew whether he was alive or dead. Those time cause him to be open to God and God uses this to fill him and transform him.

I think the point this, we all experiencing God as the God of dealing not only as the sufficient One, God of grace, mercy, love etc. To realize that suffering however small or big, as Christian, we must have a view that God is transforming us for His purpose.

This post has been edited by pehkay: Oct 3 2014, 03:09 PM