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 V11 - Property Prices Discussion, Intelligent debates only pls

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Rooney1985
post Jul 10 2013, 12:34 PM

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600,000 Y for 3 sqm
600,000 Y for 32 sq ft
18,587 Y psf
RM 580 psf

Hmmm.... how many properties here already hit the price?... especially those developed in no-man's land...

whistling.gif
Rooney1985
post Jul 10 2013, 12:36 PM

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QUOTE(Iceman74 @ Jul 10 2013, 12:29 PM)
It depend on how to see it.
He/she are burning RM2k/mth on rental. In a year, that 24k, around 5% of RM480k of the property intend to purchase.
Should the properties market drop 5%, he still get nothing. But if price stagnant, every year burns 24k wor tongue.gif
Price up lagi jialat sweat.gif
If price up/correction at 20% either end, I think no eye see jor laugh.gif

With loan interest rate at very good packages and he manage to find home sweet home with no problem servicing the loan. I would said, go for it.
We can afford to make a mistake on first home purchase cause normally we can outlive the price correction

Just my 2 cents opinion.
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Her problem is simple... she's paying too much rent... nothing to do with the buying at 480K... I think someone mentioned the same point earlier.
Nomos
post Jul 10 2013, 12:40 PM

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QUOTE(Rooney1985 @ Jul 10 2013, 12:34 PM)
600,000 Y for 3 sqm
600,000 Y for 32 sq ft
18,587 Y psf
RM 580 psf

Hmmm.... how many properties here already hit the price?... especially those developed in no-man's land...

whistling.gif
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I thought it was USD600k?
Iceman74
post Jul 10 2013, 12:46 PM

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QUOTE(Rooney1985 @ Jul 10 2013, 12:36 PM)
Her problem is simple... she's paying too much rent... nothing to do with the buying at 480K... I think someone mentioned the same point earlier.
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Haha...i do noticed that. For her, better buy home to force saving then let $$$ drain out. brows.gif
SUSAmayaBumibuyer
post Jul 10 2013, 01:34 PM

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QUOTE(Rooney1985 @ Jul 10 2013, 12:34 PM)
600,000 Y for 3 sqm
600,000 Y for 32 sq ft
18,587 Y psf
RM 580 psf

Hmmm.... how many properties here already hit the price?... especially those developed in no-man's land...

whistling.gif
*
That was not in yen. It was in dollars.
kimsong
post Jul 10 2013, 01:44 PM

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QUOTE(Iceman74 @ Jul 10 2013, 12:46 PM)
Haha...i do noticed that. For her, better buy home to force saving then let $$$ drain out. brows.gif
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He/she renting a house for RM2K/month? I think he or she must be crazy? Why don't rent a room? Why a house? Seriously, a room at RM250/month rental is still available, and it was not far from KL. smile.gif Just don't understand sad.gif
kimsong
post Jul 10 2013, 01:48 PM

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QUOTE(lowyatter @ Jul 10 2013, 12:22 PM)
Penang and KL are reaching ridiculous levels already.

The latest project next to E&O Hotel in Penang, called Shorefront is RM1500 /sqft.
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It doesn't matter RM1500/sqf or RM5100/sqf, there are many RICH people in Malaysia that can afford to buy just anything!!!
EddyLB
post Jul 10 2013, 01:53 PM

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QUOTE(Rooney1985 @ Jul 10 2013, 12:09 PM)


It doesn't matter how many you picked up yesterday, last year, or in the past 8 - 10 years... .the most important thing is ... NET WEALTH.. no point picking 5 properties and drown in debt... I don't see any sense in that.

whistling.gif
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Just to offer the other side of the POV.....

Increase in Net Wealth is only possible if an investor takes the risk. If the investor is risk averse, then he has no chance of increasing Net Wealth in property. For the risk takers, although they have to live with higher risk, but they have the chance of increasing Net Wealth (or reducing).

Eg. Investor who are willing to take the risk in 2006/7 (like paikor), then the 5 properties have already giving returns of 2-3 fold. He is multi millionaire now. But investor who chose not to drown in debt in 2006/7, he is very safe and sleeps very well at night. But he didn't get the returns from the property boom.

So, all depends on individual's risk appetite. If you ask me how is the property market now, I would say 50-50 chance of either still going up, or it will go down. Risk takers will still go for it. And risk averse investors will wait and see


SUSAmayaBumibuyer
post Jul 10 2013, 01:56 PM

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QUOTE(cockee @ Jul 10 2013, 12:15 PM)
Friend, you have to look at that price in relative to the circumstances at that point in time. On hindsight, it looked super dumb. But caught in the frenzy that time, the buyer of that land must have thought it was the right decision and pricing.

Same as here and now. RM800-1000 psf is becoming the 'norm', and people dont 'feel' it's excessive. But once we take off the rose-tinted glasses, it means RM500k for a 500sf studio, or RM1mil for a 1000sf condo. I repeat, RM1mil for a 1000 sf condo. Match that to the average income of Malaysian.. RM5000 per HOUSEHOLD. And you will see how 'unaffordable' our mass housing really is to the general public.

Well, I am not sure if marketing classes teach  the basic Ps anymore.. but anyone who know anything about marketing will know one of the most important Ps is Pricing.

The article already mentioned the possible reactions to this kind of news..
THE BIGGEST LESSON IS NOT TO FALL INTO A STATE OF DENIAL

"Most of all, economists say, Japan's experience teaches the need to be skeptical of that fundamental myth behind all asset bubbles: that prices will keep rising forever. Like their United States counterparts today, too many Japanese homebuyers overextended their debt, buying property that cost more than they could rationally afford because they assumed that values would only rise. When prices dropped, many buyers were financially battered or even wiped out.

"The biggest lesson from Japan is not to fall into the same state of denial that existed here," said Yukio Noguchi, a finance professor at Waseda University in Tokyo who is perhaps the leading authority on the Japanese bubble.

During a bubble, people don't believe that prices will fall," he said. "This has been proven wrong so many times in the past. But there's something in human nature that makes us unable to learn from history."

Well, I am not comparing to Japan. It would be not be exactly the same circumstances, triggers or impacts. But there are many economy and financial ratios similarities, which many other posted here.
After the Japanese bubble popped, the Americans too thought it wont happen to them. US not same as Japan.
After the America, the Irish said it wont happen to them. Ireland diffent from America.
Then UK, Spain, Vietname etc.
biggrin.gif
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The Lesson is
WHO IS IN THE STATE OF DENIAL?

Friend.
Let me ask what is the price of oil during the 80s. When the bubble hit so call Japan?
Then the 90s how much was the price of oil?
Now 100USD for a barrel of oil is the norm.

Given the fact that during the recent 2008 crisis, oil was not the contributor to the crisis but how much was it then?

Now ALL price increase not just properties, with houses that are necessity and very very scarce I believe the current price is what you expect it to be. See how many people are getting married and hunting for houses to live in. And for each couple that gets married, there will be another demand for property.

And wages in banks, oil industry like Petronas I know increase like hell already. Combine income of husband and wife from the insdustry are easily more than 10k.
TSkochin
post Jul 10 2013, 02:03 PM

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QUOTE(ReenaRina @ Jul 9 2013, 05:12 PM)
Hi. I am looking to buy an apartment in Putramas, dutamas(Segambut), Jalan Ipoh/ Jalan Kuching area. At present I am renting a fully furnished unit for RM 2000/ month in Royal Domain Sri Putramas 2 (Off jalan Kuching). As my budget is well below RM 500k ( only because of the property market of course!)  and most decent apartments in these areas are costing beyond RM 500K including Sri Putramas 2, I am sort of in a serious dilemma especially after BNM’s announcement of capping the loan term as well as percentage given.

1. Will the property market take a slight dip? I am now seriously          hunting for a buy, therefore should I wait or should I just go for it?
2. I have seen a unit in Putramas 1 yesterday. It is 1100 Sqft and fully furnished(decent furnishing) with renovation as well as with 2 car parks. The owner is asking for RM480K. is it worth paying that price for that property.

I hope someone can give me some clear insights on these. Thanks so much!
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given your situation, i would buy.

most agreed that even if property market takes a dip (a dip and not a crash), chances are <RM500k segment would be least affected. even if it did, it should not be too severed. and given that you have said so yourself that it's decent furnishing means you would have saved substantially on the reno + furnishing cost.

let's not forget your present rm2k rent, is considered total loss. it's true that you gained shelter in exchange of rm2k, but paying similiar amounts to your own property makes more sense, right?

however, if you opt for rental still, now might be a good time to pressure your landlord to lower asking rent. SP3 aka Royal Regent is gonna VP real soon and landlord should have some rental pressures. you might one to take this opportunity to squeeze something out of them. eg. lower rates, extra furnishings, etc.

good luck!
kidmad
post Jul 10 2013, 02:13 PM

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QUOTE(Iceman74 @ Jul 10 2013, 12:32 PM)
This I agreed fully nod.gif
Can sleep better at night without worry income drop lar, interest up lar, cannot rent out lar and others laugh.gif
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At least for now.

When you are young you have to option to choose whether to worry or should I use the proper word, PLAN to worry? You can choose to start planning today Or else the other way round is to worry in your old age. smile.gif Most likely during that period of time you can do nothing about it.
icemanfx
post Jul 10 2013, 03:04 PM

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QUOTE(kimsong @ Jul 10 2013, 01:48 PM)
It doesn't matter RM1500/sqf or RM5100/sqf, there are many RICH people in Malaysia that can afford to buy just anything!!!
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No doubt but how many people are in this category? People in this category, have many more investment options and need to limit to property in Malaysia.


QUOTE(AmayaBumibuyer @ Jul 10 2013, 01:56 PM)
And wages in banks, oil industry like Petronas I know increase like hell already. Combine income of husband and wife from the insdustry are easily more than 10k.
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No doubt but how many couples are both working in O&G and banking industry? Believe most of these couples are already staying in their own property, only in the market for investment or upgrade.


QUOTE(AmayaBumibuyer @ Jul 10 2013, 01:56 PM)
Let me ask what is the price of oil during the 80s. When the bubble hit so call Japan?
Then the 90s how much was the price of oil?
Now 100USD for a barrel of oil is the norm.

Given the fact that during the recent 2008 crisis, oil was not the contributor to the crisis but how much was it then?
Given the amount of recoverable oil and gas found both North and South America and slowing down of Chinese economy, don't expect oil price to remain at current level for long.

QUOTE(cockee @ Jul 10 2013, 12:15 PM)
During a bubble, people don't believe that prices will fall," he said. "This has been proven wrong so many times in the past. But there's something in human nature that makes us unable to learn from history."

Well, I am not comparing to Japan. It would be not be exactly the same circumstances, triggers or impacts. But there are many economy and financial ratios similarities, which many other posted here.
After the Japanese bubble popped, the Americans too thought it wont happen to them. US not same as Japan.
After the America, the Irish said it wont happen to them. Ireland diffent from America.
Then UK, Spain, Vietname etc.
biggrin.gif
*
Historically in U.K. and U.S, property price is about 7 years of household income, anything over 10 years is unsustainable. Of course different economic theory apply to the bolehland.


This post has been edited by icemanfx: Jul 10 2013, 03:25 PM
cockee
post Jul 10 2013, 03:29 PM

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QUOTE(AmayaBumibuyer @ Jul 10 2013, 01:56 PM)
The Lesson is
WHO IS IN THE STATE OF DENIAL?

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Well, the fact is property price growth is going downwards.. Just look at the graph. How long till it reaches negative territory?
so those think it's always going to be up, up and up is in a state of denial. biggrin.gif Q1 Q2 Q3 Q4
2012 0.00 0.00 -2.11 0.00
2011 1.29 4.02 -1.29 0.00
2010 0.59 2.48 2.42 2.44
2009 0.47 2.08 0.76 2.10
2008 2.22 0.16 1.94 -1.83
2007 0.24 0.16 1.21 0.64
2006 0.51 0.68 0.25 3.27
2005 0.70 1.82 -0.60 0.69
% change over a quarter

This post has been edited by cockee: Jul 10 2013, 03:37 PM
SUSAmayaBumibuyer
post Jul 10 2013, 03:34 PM

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QUOTE(icemanfx @ Jul 10 2013, 03:04 PM)
No doubt but how many people are in this category? People in this category, have many more investment options and need to limit to property in Malaysia.
No doubt but how many couples are both working in O&G and banking industry? Believe most of these couples are already staying in their own property, only in the market for investment or upgrade.
Given the amount of recoverable oil and gas found both North and South America and slowing down of Chinese economy, don't expect oil price to remain at current level for long.
*
Well in what I see, those who work in those indsutries even before they were married already own a property. Because I said, their income is very high. Late 20s.

I know a couple who both recently passed their specialist exams and become specialist doctors, combine income of more than 20k. They are in the early 30s.


These type of people with this kind of purchasing power, is entering the workforce everyday. Now, the problem is have you bought your dream house at the right price yet?

The problem here is the gap between the rich and the poor. Although there are rich people entering the market everyday, there are poor people entering the market too. When the poor complains right now in Malaysia, everybody just notices.

And given the amount the increase consumption of people from India too not just China, I beg to differ about the oil level.
SUSAmayaBumibuyer
post Jul 10 2013, 03:40 PM

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QUOTE(cockee @ Jul 10 2013, 03:29 PM)
Attached Image

Well, the fact is property price growth is going downwards.. Just look at the graph. How long till it reaches negative territory?
so those think it's always going to be up, up and up is in a state of denial.  biggrin.gif
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Well you mistaken in what I am trying to say here. All necessities are going up right now compared to a few years ago, food, oil etc not just properties. Not that they always go up.

And why gold went down? Because we cant eat gold and we cant live in it. But hey, gold can still go up.

That was why car price in Malaysia are still the way it is in Malaysia, expensive like hell although they are crap. Because it is a neccessity to all Malaysians except me.
cockee
post Jul 10 2013, 03:44 PM

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QUOTE(AmayaBumibuyer @ Jul 10 2013, 03:34 PM)

The problem here is the gap between the rich and the poor. Although there are rich people entering the market everyday, there are poor people entering the market too.
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This is right. So we have the 5% rich and 95% poor. But if u look at the supply and pricing side, maybe 80% is only affordable for the rich.
So it becomes a game of musical chair.. the rich buying among themselves.. looking for the next fool?
Nomos
post Jul 10 2013, 03:50 PM

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Simply put, property prices went up because of credit. Take that away or limit its accessibility and you will see what happens.

You see as car prices rose, so did the hire purchase tenure. My parents laugh at todays generation paying 9 years for a car.

These have little to do with young people earning more.

We have always had high paying professionals in the country. Its nothing new. But theyre not the majority, far from it in fact.
SUSAmayaBumibuyer
post Jul 10 2013, 03:58 PM

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QUOTE(cockee @ Jul 10 2013, 03:44 PM)
This is right. So we have the 5% rich and 95% poor. But if u look at the supply and pricing side, maybe 80% is only affordable for the rich.
So it becomes a game of musical chair.. the rich buying among themselves.. looking for the next fool?
*
Correct. we have a lot of rich people but the poor are more than the rich. That is the real problem in Malaysia.

And the poor understandably will make more noise to the government. Government sould do something. The price in Malaysia and I am not talking about properties only, generally everything is fcking high. The rich are well off so they just cant be bothered. Well I am doing my bit by boycotting the car industry, but then my bit wont help much if I am the only one who is doing it.
SUSAmayaBumibuyer
post Jul 10 2013, 04:02 PM

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QUOTE(Nomos @ Jul 10 2013, 03:50 PM)
Simply put, property prices went up because of credit. Take that away or limit its accessibility and you will see what happens.

You see as car prices rose, so did the hire purchase tenure. My parents laugh at todays generation paying 9 years for a car.

These have little to do with young people earning more.

We have always had high paying professionals in the country. Its nothing new. But theyre not the majority, far from it in fact.
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And when car price increase people still buy right? Why? Because they have too.
AMINT
post Jul 10 2013, 04:17 PM

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Different people, different level of risk taker. U need to take risks in life sometimes. It makes ur life more livelier too. of course, need to take calculated risk. dont just jump. if not maybe can end up as a bankrupt.

People like Paikor have made it because he took risks. people like Renesial Leong made it because she dared herself too. One can just not do anything and not worry about anything but in the end, that person will have nothing la.

which one do you prefer?

This post has been edited by AMINT: Jul 10 2013, 04:18 PM

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