1 of these days the price sure will go down. Just a matter of time. So, the DDD camp will be right one day.

Cannot be denied, the 2013 property prices is not as hot as before. Investors are more cautious. Banks are also more cautious by rejecting more loan applications. But the prices are still either up up up, or maintain very steady. As long as investors has stable employment, they can service their loan and has continued holding power

The only way malaysia property market will collapse is the world economy take a hard beating. And the effect spreads to malaysian economy. The last property slump in Malaysia is because of the Asia currency crisis in 1997/8. That time many companies were affected, and many properties went to auction. So to see a property market collapse now, you will have to have economies of China down, Europe down, USA down, Asia down. Then malaysian economy will be affected badly, and companies start to retrench, landlord hard to find tenant, foreign investors put up fire sale, and eventually property market will collapse

But world economy doesn't look that way now. Although export in all countries are softening, but it doesn't look catastrophic. The property price does not seem to be falling in 2013. But nowadays everything is very fluid, so it may look very different in 6 months time.

I have laid down very clearly the condition on how Malaysian property market will crash.

Don't just counter my points lah. Criticize people is always easy. You need also give opinion --> Can you also lay down clearly how in your opinion Malaysian property market will crash ? You guys have been talking about crashing, but until today nothing happen

So, my opinion is still "right until proven wrong". Whereas your opinion is still "wrong until proven right"

The 4 things are happening and we have recipe for bubble burst ? But.....but.....but.....where is the bubble burst ? Tak rasa pun ?

Any target has no value if there is no timeline. I have said it won't burst if the world economy has no drastic changes. I have said it won't burst in 2013. If it burst in 2013, then I am damn wrong

Can you state a date so I have a more meaningful perspective of your opinion ?

Foolish ? I for one is setting a firm date. And I say it again. MARKET WILL NOT CRASH IN 2013

I wonder why you don't dare to set a date. No confident about what you said yourself ?

Again, "I am right until proven wrong", and "you are wrong until proven right". If you don't give a date, 1 day you sure will be right. But when ? Until then, what you said are just rubbish

That's the difference between the DDD and BBB camp....

So, still don't dare to set a date for MARKET CRASH ?

That is the million dollar question !

The DDD camp can keep on saying it will crash 1 day. And historical trend showed this day will definitely come because everything that goes up, will come down. So, they are bound to be correct 1 day.

But when ? By believing "that day" will come, they have lost so much opportunities. They have missed the boat this round while many others make money. Of course, there is always risks to invest. High risk, high return. No risk, no return.

I have seen so many people become millionaires for the last 6-7 years, all because of property prices going up 2-3 folds. Buta-buta a man walking on the street who bought 2 DSL or 2 Condo in 2006 onwards is a millionaire now. Those who own land make even more money. Although many millionaires are still on paper, but at least they are millionaires in their own rights.

Sometimes, I really pity those who missed the boat. Opportunity of a life time is lost. Some DDD camp like tat3179 and tikaram realised their mistake and turn to BBB mode. So, it is still not too late. I think they are clever, because they 不跟钱过不去. Whereas some die hard DDD camp still in denial mode after so many years and never given up on their belief. The only good thing about holding to their belief is that they limit their risk

As long as an investor has holding power, it is never too risky to invest. Even if the market crashed, but in long term property will shoot up again as proven in the 1980s and 1990s (2000s property market never really came down). So the key is holding power. If an investors have other sources like a job to service bank loans, even if it is not tenanted, the investors do not need to do fire sale. The real risk is the investor does not have holding power and over-leveraged.

Wow, I can sense many DDD camp is very sensitive when I talk about "missing the boat"....Sorry....and yeah, please ignore me if you did not "miss the boat". I am not talking about you, and you do not need to reply if you knew I am not talking about you....

Nice stage play to round up what happened in the past 5-6 years. Like zuiko said, the title of the play is "missing the boat"

The luxurious express bus with aircond has gone. Now those who didn't buy a ticket are still waiting. The next bus is definitely not express bus anymore. Maybe no aircond some more.

But if he still insist doesn't want to buy the bus ticket, he will forever be at the starting point.....

It is sad to see others successfully boarding the express bus while he still remain at square 1 with nothing in the pocket

You are absolutely right. It is all about luck ! But luck will not fall into your hand unless you act.

The character of DDD camp is they lack the courage to take action. I suspect even when the market does crash later, they will still wait. While making fun of those BBB camp, they will still refuse to buy when the price is right. Until the air cons bus leave again, they still stand at the bus station

They will never spot a air cond bus, let alone a Mercedes limousine

Wow, 750k to 900k in 1 year. Very good !

Not disagreeing with you everything goes up, will come down. As I have asked, the crucial factor is "the timing"

When ? I have said it, 1 day, the DDD camp will be right and laugh at the BBB camp

But when ? What if the market continue to go up for another 2 years ? Missed the aircond bus again ?

What if the market continue to go up for another 5 years ? At that time price doubled, even in year 6 it crash 30%, it is still higher than now. You still make money.

Nobody will predicts 100% correctly. It boils down to personal business acumen. In Chinese it is called 眼光. That separate millionaires from the normal person. Millionaires are mostly calculated risk taker

No everyone has 眼光. If everyone has it, everyone is multimillionair

I think I have never been a die hard DDD or BBB guy. I think I am more middle of the road. I bought properties, invest in passive income investment like stock, gold, UT, forex etc. My main source of income is actually from business. The situation is so fluid for the past 2-3 years, such that I switch regularly my investment portfolio. When there is an opportunity, just grab it. An investor can never stick to a single policy all the time.

But I have never said 1 thing in the forum, and behind doing another totally opposite thing, like you know who.....

50-50 I would say. If you think it wouldn't, then better don't go in. As I said, it is your 眼光

As for how many people can buy, just look at the following thread....

https://forum.lowyat.net/topic/1936220/+120

If you only look at malaysian property, in long run, you can safely say "previous gain is reflective of the future gain". I started in property since 1980s. It has major ups and minor downs, but the price has gone up in a linear trend. Never experience drastic drop like Japan and USA. That is the malaysian property scene for the last 30 years. Even if it drops 30% of its price now, the price is still higher than pre-2007 price. Eg, a DSL increased 100% from RM500k --> RM1m. 30% drop now --> RM700k. Still make RM200k

For the link I posted above, I have a few of the listed properties there. They are the market price now (+-5% I would say) and not single transacted price.

But of course, if you are sure the property market will crash in the near future, then you wait. As said before, the timing.....when ? That is the question that will determine you make money or not

This post has been edited by EddyLB: Jun 8 2013, 09:11 AM

The inflation part reminds me of the GST effect. The coming GST first implementation is once in a life time chance to buy property anytime now until it comes into effect

Residential property is proposed to be exempt supplies. It means developer cannot charge GST to customers. But the building material that is used to build a house is subjected to GST. Ie. the developer needs to pay GST on cement, bricks, steel bar, concrete, wood, tiles, doors, windows, electrical wiring, painting, basically all building materials. But it cannot claim the GST back from the Customs. Theoretically the developer should absord the tax. But does anyone think the developer will be so nice to not increase the selling price to offset the loss in profits ? If I am the developer, I will increase even more than the GST rate to take advantage of the situation

For commercial properties, it is standard rated supplies, so it is confirmed all purchases will be subject to GST. SOHO, SOVO, SOO, SOHAI and all commercial titles are included. Consumers will be charged GST --> price increase

So, if GST if unavoidable in the near future, then the price of property will increase by at least 4%. Any project that you buy in the future will be more expensive with GST.

Still hoping the price to come down ? We need to worry about how much the developers will hike price first

So, it is another timing game. If you time it correctly, then GST will be another opportunity to make money

Bro, BNM is extremely strict nowadays. If your income cannot justify the loan amount, your application will be thrown out. There are so many rejected cases since late last year.

I agree it is a concern if banks are allowed to simply give out loan. But now they are worried about NPL. So the situation is not like the banks are blindly giving out loans to people who are not eligible.

And I agree people should not buy beyond their financial ability for the sake of owning properties. That is dangerous.

From your replies to various post above, I agree that you should not buy any property now. At least you will sleep a lot better. Maybe you should wait for the price to come down 1 day. And buy only when you are comfortable

Most developments are supposed to complete from next year or so ?

Haha, I agree with others you know nuts about properties

Are you just trying to have some fun by trolling us ?

I thought you don't know property only. Now you show you don't know taxation as well

GST are paid by the final person who consume the goods. Vendors are able to claim back the GST paid along the chain. There is no effect to vendors for the overwhelming majority of the goods and services provided.

Cashflow wise, the vendor only remit the nett GST to Customs. Ie, the GST they collect from the customers is offset against the GST they paid to their suppliers. So, if they pay more GST then collect, the Customs will even refund the vendor back for that month ! There is no major cashflow issue to the vendor. Only the final consumer of the goods & services will pay the tax

Suggest you study the GST structure before you make yourself a fool in your future posting. If you have any questions, do ask here. I will be glad to help as far as I know

http://www.treasury.gov.my/index.php?optio...default&lang=en


And not only property and tax you don't know. Economics also you don't know.

You mean when all the countries in the world which implement GST, all of them went into recession ? You mistaken recession = inflation, they are different thing lah my friend. If you say all countries when they implement GST, their inflation gone up, then you are correct. GST will cause recession ? Then all countries will not implement GST lah bwahahaha

Thanks for the entertainment ! You are damn good man

While I also support GST, it does not necessary be a disadvantage to the rich

For the example you given above, fine dining currently the service tax is 6% (as charged by all restaurant with turnover of RM1m, including McD). The proposed GST is 4%. So, the rich gets a reduction in tax of 2% if GST is implemented. While the poor usually cook at home, they have to pay additional 4% tax on food such as canned food, coke, maggi noodle etc (except essentials like rice, sugar, salt, fish etc like you said)

The rich also spend on luxury items like cars which currently is charged with 10% sales tax. With GST of 4%, the tax saved on a luxury car is 6%. If a Mercedes price is RM300k, then the rich fellow save RM18k. The poor don't buy luxury items like cars, so they dont enjoy anything.

As for property buyers like us here, currently we pay 6% on lawyer's services. When GST is implemented, we pay only 4%. So we save 2% on lawyer fees. The poor cannot afford to buy houses, so no effect for them also

The rich may not be worse off when GST is implemented

And forgot to mention the implementation of GST is usually followed by a reduction of personal income tax and corporate tax as seen in many countries which implemented GST. In malaysia, only 10-20% of the population who are rich enough to pay income tax will enjoy the reduction of income tax. And only the bosses who own companies' will enjoy the reduction of corporate tax.

So, the rich may be even better off with GST compare to the poor !