yes you can have 2 lines what about workers?
if you are the boss u expect to have at least 2 batch workers to works in diff line?
or you want they can work in both?

indeed luck some time required.
my house has a bunch of proton none of them have big problem

Haiya... how often do I need to repeat? ASEAN cars are taxed exactly the same way as Proton and Perodua. There is NO difference. So the 40k you pay more for the Vios over the Saga goes to Toyota. With that money they can do better QC, use higher quality materials, and still make a ton of profit, unlike Proton.

Cars that are exported are probably more expensive to build if the quality is indeed better. That they are still cheaper than in Malaysia is because they are taxed much lower than they are in Malaysia. Most countries have a 10-20% tax on cars, including Proton models. Malaysia taxes Protons at 75%. Yes, obviously it is going to be more expensive.

Look at China: They can produce well made devices that last forever (Lenovo ThinkPad for example), Apple devices (ok, one could argue about that), they can also produce extremely lousy devices that disintegrate the moment you open the box. It always depends on how much money you give them to build it. Looking at how extremely cheap Proton cars are after you take away the ridiculous taxes it's probably save to assume that Proton parts have to be very cheap.

i need to press a "like" for this

We are not exactly know the background story. It is not transparent to us. Whether the extra 40k go to Toyota for better QC or not, we donno, it could be go into certain pockets directly. If you have any source, you can share so we have better understanding.

This is extra 75% taxes that we need to pay in order for Malaysian to get good quality car? And then other countries have to pay only 10-20% tax but still get good quality car? Doesn't make sense to me.

No, we pay the extra 75% to make the government happy (or to finance the health care system or whatever..., I have no clue where the money is actually going, Proton may be getting funds for R&D for example, which would bring down development costs).

Toyota (and other car makers) are using the ignorance of the people (thinking Toyotas etc. are more expensive due to high taxes) to charge more for cars than they should actually cost. Also, the Miti may not approve cars if they are priced too low (i.e. competitive with Proton and Perodua), so that certainly drives up prices for non-local car makers. However that basically _forces_ other car makers to make more profits. And while companies like VW, Ford etc. use the additional money to improve the specs, Toyota is using the money... well, to improve the size of their wallets probably.

In any case, I'd argue that Protons simply have to be built for an extremely low cost, because otherwise Malaysians would not be willing to buy them. But the problem is if you don't have any money to build a car with proper materials and with the required time and care, if you don't have the money to reject lower quality parts, if you don't have the money to get skilled workers and train them properly, then that drives down quality.

Other car makers don't need to cut costs that much and can still have a nice profit.

For a while Opel tried to cut costs so much by pressuring vendors to make things cheaper etc. that the quality tanked.

It is not so hard to imagine that when Proton earns more per car, they also can deliver higher quality. Likewise products by Chinese companies for China are sometimes of lower quality than the same products meant for export, simply because those products are sold for higher prices. I'm sure if the Preve were priced like the Altis it actually competes with, and that money went into the making of the car and improving the service centers, it would be a really good one, reliable and solid, well speced and safe.

As for 75 vs 10-20%... basically in other countries more money arrives at Proton - despite lower prices - to build the car. More money can lead to better quality.

This post has been edited by kadajawi: Mar 31 2013, 02:41 PM

I am a 6 month old Preve CFE owner. One month into my ownership, the CVT gearbox starts to make loud weird noises, and the whole gearbox was replaced under warranty.

6 month into my car here is what i notice.
-alignment pulls to the left, dont know why. I have the alignment specification for Preve and the guys adjust following it, it still prefer left side, but vainly nothing bad or to the annoying level.
-horrible rattling from right side of dashboard near the air cond vent area. Thought it was the metal clip of air cond vent, they took it out, took care the metal clip but the rattling noise was still there.
-horrible plastic like squeaking noise from the rear.
-Discover a new screw/washer rattling noise today, its from the rear also.
-FC is not as good as claimed.

No it doesnt mean Proton=Bad Quality. I am from a family who owns multiple Proton since the earlier model, maintain it well(maintenance cost is not high to begin with) and they are highly reliable.

All car have problems, go join all the owners forum and you will be enlightened.All cars are the same.

All i can say IMO know your spec, and pick the best car that suit your budget. Thats why i bought a Preve. It a big car/spacious for the $$ u paid, handles well, power is more then enough. T&H equivalent car is plain terrible joke.

If i can choose again will i buy a Preve ? No i will not. Just bcz i got bored with the car itself.

The KIA forte I am owning having similar problem too

1. rattling sound from dashboard on the air cond vent on the right side of center. The SC opened up and showed to me. All clips clips here, clips clips there. They have to apply more spounge adhesive to tighthen the clips. This has reduced the rattling problem just not sure when will come back.
2. The pull left problem occurred too - The SC has to adjust the chamber nut to fix the problem.
3. Now I heard some minor engine noise klink klink klink .. very tiny sound started after 10-15 mins drive. Well I give up already because SC also very difficult to catch it. Just turn on the Radio and assuming no problem.

So, not only proton having problem. This is for sure.

I think your severe problem is CVT gearbox - you have to pray hard so it will not come back after the warranty. After that, you need to pay a lot. How many years of warranty?

If I can choose again .. I think I will choose Forte again because it really cool with its price.

Thanks for your advice. Everyone of us in fact care about our Protons

Hopefully they really realize the problems and start improving whatever they can and become more competitive in the world market.

The tax system is there not to protect Proton. But Proton is exist to protect the tax system.

What is the government is trying to protect is the tax system and its revenue. Proton and perodua paid the most taxes to government, but these two company keep on getting the blame from the people, especially Proton.

Sampai bila we still have to pay 75% tax for local cars?

What u pay is what u get. Full stop

actually this is the REAL mindset that all "company" want from their customer
you pay less...you get less quality....
you pay more....you get much more quality
so they can market their product/services at higher price because of this so called "quality"
it's called marketing bussines

have to agree on this one...
and it's not only effect proton alone..other manufacture who CKD their product face the same problem
"WHY" you may ask???
because most of us as MALAYSIAN also lack of discipline...no matter upper/management level or production level
ever wonder why people mindset always look up on "made in japan" product...
because most of us know how discipline they are...
QC(quality control) is all about DISCIPLINE

This post has been edited by budakdegilz: Mar 31 2013, 04:53 PM

thanks to tdm and now a sayidmokthar company
we have to buy expensive car

for proto, local loq qua, export high qua but the price after conversion=price in mlysia

proto already solve their power of window? last time almost every proto's car has window prob

This is right if our world just Malaysia. But the world is so big and we start compare to others. Unless our country is communism... Means "When I speak, you listen".

Now the people not satisfy and questions why we have to pay so much of money to buy LOW QUALITY car. But other countries doesn't need to pay 75% tax. Unless we donno, then we cannot ask.

I remember 20-25 yrs ago when our Dr M introduce Saga / Wira / Iswara and no AP, the people only allowed to buy Proton and no foreign cars, no perodua, no naza .... Totally no need to compete to each other. no complaints too ..

This post has been edited by bennedict82: Mar 31 2013, 05:19 PM

Gen2 1.3 is for those who want a big car but not willingly enough to spend for the 1.6 variant.

Apparently she bought the wrong car n seriously who to blame for this?

Power windows? 10 years limited warranty, with t&c apply.

THX FOR millon dollar answer

Just an example.

Ford Fiesta, I'd driving one so I guess I can say something about it without sound like I'm bashing Ford. The Fiesta have several unresolved issues since it was launched here a few years ago. The most notable being leaking gearbox, clutch slipping and the exhaust muffler melting soundproof material in the boot. These are not isolated cases, it is well known among Fiesta owners. So why non-owners seldom hear of it? because it's a Ford and because there are not as many Fiestas on the road compared to Proton or Perodua.

These are not annoying problems like rattle or power windows, this is something that can potentially affect the car's driveability and possibly dangerous. And MANY Fiestas are affected.

Imagine there are as many Fiestas as there are Myvis on our roads. Imagine if the Fiesta is manufactured by Proton. We will be burning the car at Proton HQ. Imagine if VW's failure-prone DSG is used on Proton cars.

See what I'm getting at? We are willing to forgive all these VW / Ford / BMW / Audi / Merc / Renault cars by saying "Aiya, Conti cars all new tech ma deswai many problems.....but it is nice to drive and have powerful engines and when I drive I ade muka!"

But when Proton introduce a turbocharge engine and CVT, everyone say "Sei sor hai Proton R&D all this new tech for what, Power window also kenot do properly."......How many FLXs are on the road? How many of them have a failed or leaky CVT?

This post has been edited by dares: Mar 31 2013, 07:49 PM

Really? Please read the whole discussion.

At least i read yours.

i do like my persona elegance HL...
never give me a problem since owning 3 years ago...

@dares made a good point. Protons are generally good/reliable when it comes to major components ie. engine & gearbox. Barring its odd models (tiara/savvy/juara) & newer turbocharged vehicles, most complaints are actually non-threatening 'minor' problems ie. plastic rattles, shitty interiors, build quality.