Well like any other product, a car is only as good as it's quality, isn't it? No matter how good the design & specs are but if built with crappy quality then it is indeed a bad car.
Well, Lamborghini has a bit of a reputation... not that reliable.
Just to show a few.
So are they bad cars?
I'm sure Proton could improve their QC... but that will cost money. Money that people are not willing to pay, cause it's a Proton. It has to be cheap. I remember reactions to the Preve pricing, saying it is too expensive. Seriously?
those problem i mention is in sarcastic way...becos this kind of thread are too many...since our beloved LYN dedicate n pinned 1 topic just for proton probs why don we go to that thread n post it there? is it hard to follow?
That thread is there to post only you have problems. Of course there are many problems, there are many Proton's out there. But you don't get to hear those without problems, so you can't see if those problems are common or not. That is what this thread is there for.
how bad is proton? refer to that thread also knowing how bad proton is...n there are many thread similar to this thread...hehehe
yayaya proton is bad...
I see lots of people complaining their Toyota or Honda is not reliable. This broken, that broken, poor fit and finish. So Toyota and Honda are unreliable crap too, right? You don't seem to understand what I tried to say. You have to see the percentage of problematic vs problem free cars. Can't do that in a thread that only looks for people with problems.
From what I see in my family, those who drive a Proton and take care of it, they don't have problems, or only few ones (the only Proton that does give problems had a serious crash early on, since then problems pop up). However those cheapskate Proton owners... never fix the car when something is broken, unless it can't move, never service properly, etc., yes, they do have problems. But treat a Toyota like that and it'll also give you constant problems.
I guess Proton buyers tend to not really care about their car (at least to a higher proportion), they try to save a few pennies here and there, go to lousy but cheap workshops etc. That would ruin every car.
but think the other way, by boycotting them, we are buying highly taxed imported cars, where the enormous tax is paying back to proton to survive.. u get my point?
The imported cars are taxed for the most part the same as local cars. 75% for ASEAN produced as well as local cars. Most of the common models are ASEAN produced. CKD is taxed 10% higher, CBU a bit more than that. So really not much difference. Also the tax is not going back to Proton to survive, it is going to the government. They then can use it to pay for the health care system maybe, or for petrol subsidies, or for their own pockets, ...
Hm. I associated Daniel John with those Proton bashers who mean it. Not with those who are simply sarcastic. Too many users here, gets confusing. Really there is too much trolling and sarcasm going on here...
buy any bentley or maserati if ferrari and lambo got reliability issue so many choice out there i wonder when one buying a exotic car what is he thinking
Maserati:
Bentley:
Ok, maybe at least the Bentley didn't spontaneously started to burn (people mad at the owner cause he used up 3 (!) parking spots). But with Lambo and Ferrari it is known that they may spontaneously burst into flames. Owner parks the car, goes away, comes back and all that is left is a bit of burnt rubber, plastic, leather and metal. Or it may happen while driving. Maserati probably has the same issue. And so does Tata...
Happens to Proton too it seems, though not as frequent (look at how many Protons are out there, vs. Ferraris, and see how many Protons caught fire, vs Ferraris.
Are you trying to say Protons are better than others?
Nah, just that you can't say Proton is very bad and others are flawless. Which one is worse I don't know. Would have to make bigger surveys where all car owners will participate. And even then the question remains how much people care for their car... If it is cheap they probably care less.
Basically the magazine buys a car, their employees drive them for 100000 km (some 200000 km) within usually 2 years, and then they take the cars apart and examine them. They report on their experiences and especially breakdowns/faulty parts/things that had to be replaced. Every defect, depending on the seriousness, is given a certain number of points, and after adding them up they know which cars were reliable and which weren't. Now they only tested one car per model, but it still is a good indication. The gallery shows all the cars they have tested, and ranks them from worst to best. That VW is at the very bottom shows that they are quite honest... this magazine is very pro-VW. Basic findings: 2000-2006ish VWs avoid at all cost, they are bloody awful. Early French and Italian cars were bad, newer ones are good average to really reliable. Toyota is average at best (Yaris didn't do well), only the Prius models are reliable (but they are really extremely reliable). Honda is ok to good. Mazda is very, very reliable. As much as VW took over almost every bottom 5 spot, Mazda took over almost every top 5 spot. DSG was not a problem in any car, but some turbos had to be replaced and some engines blew up. Also, a lot has happened in the last 5-10 years, brands that used to be very reliable aren't anymore, and very unreliable brands are now reliable.
You can ask Google Translate for help if something is unclear.
This post has been edited by kadajawi: Mar 31 2013, 03:25 AM
Remember, the expensive price you paid for other cars is not go to get good quality verndor but go to all funny taxes just to make proton car looks cheaper price than other.
The price Malaysian pay for proton is more expensive than foreinger paid for it. When proton car get exported to other country, the oversea selling price always cheaper than Malaysian has paid.
I am respecting Malaysian that can tolerate this and that.
Haiya... how often do I need to repeat? ASEAN cars are taxed exactly the same way as Proton and Perodua. There is NO difference. So the 40k you pay more for the Vios over the Saga goes to Toyota. With that money they can do better QC, use higher quality materials, and still make a ton of profit, unlike Proton.
Cars that are exported are probably more expensive to build if the quality is indeed better. That they are still cheaper than in Malaysia is because they are taxed much lower than they are in Malaysia. Most countries have a 10-20% tax on cars, including Proton models. Malaysia taxes Protons at 75%. Yes, obviously it is going to be more expensive.
Look at China: They can produce well made devices that last forever (Lenovo ThinkPad for example), Apple devices (ok, one could argue about that), they can also produce extremely lousy devices that disintegrate the moment you open the box. It always depends on how much money you give them to build it. Looking at how extremely cheap Proton cars are after you take away the ridiculous taxes it's probably save to assume that Proton parts have to be very cheap.
No, we pay the extra 75% to make the government happy (or to finance the health care system or whatever..., I have no clue where the money is actually going, Proton may be getting funds for R&D for example, which would bring down development costs).
Toyota (and other car makers) are using the ignorance of the people (thinking Toyotas etc. are more expensive due to high taxes) to charge more for cars than they should actually cost. Also, the Miti may not approve cars if they are priced too low (i.e. competitive with Proton and Perodua), so that certainly drives up prices for non-local car makers. However that basically _forces_ other car makers to make more profits. And while companies like VW, Ford etc. use the additional money to improve the specs, Toyota is using the money... well, to improve the size of their wallets probably.
In any case, I'd argue that Protons simply have to be built for an extremely low cost, because otherwise Malaysians would not be willing to buy them. But the problem is if you don't have any money to build a car with proper materials and with the required time and care, if you don't have the money to reject lower quality parts, if you don't have the money to get skilled workers and train them properly, then that drives down quality.
Other car makers don't need to cut costs that much and can still have a nice profit.
For a while Opel tried to cut costs so much by pressuring vendors to make things cheaper etc. that the quality tanked.
It is not so hard to imagine that when Proton earns more per car, they also can deliver higher quality. Likewise products by Chinese companies for China are sometimes of lower quality than the same products meant for export, simply because those products are sold for higher prices. I'm sure if the Preve were priced like the Altis it actually competes with, and that money went into the making of the car and improving the service centers, it would be a really good one, reliable and solid, well speced and safe.
As for 75 vs 10-20%... basically in other countries more money arrives at Proton - despite lower prices - to build the car. More money can lead to better quality.
This post has been edited by kadajawi: Mar 31 2013, 02:41 PM
Sometimes is not about status. It is incredibly aggravating when other people thinks you are stupid for buying what you bought, when you know they dunno jack about cars, especially your own family.
When I bought a Saga, my family ask me why I don't buy Myvi ("Toyota ma"). When I buy Fiesta, they ask me why I don't buy Vios ("TOYOTA MA" ). Apparently, the problem was not why I bought a Proton, it was why I didn't buy a Sushi
Hm, sushi is delicious.
I have been able to convince the relatives of my/our choice. But yes, it is not so easy.
What car you drive does have an impact on your image. Audi drivers tend to be seen as highway bullies, Mercedes drivers are uncles. BMW drivers tend to be ah bengs, especially older modified models (316i with M badge ). Toyota means not so rich uncles, the very very boring kind. Skoda drivers are sometimes seen as smart, seems like business men like them as it shows they are smart, since they bought a VW/Audi for less.
Anyway I don't see much point in owning properties. My two best earning friends are renting only. While they may be able to buy a property, it does not make any sense. They may be moving soon again, not having properties makes you more flexible. Pack things, go to the next job...
This post has been edited by kadajawi: Apr 3 2013, 11:56 AM
Bullies? Really? Maybe unintentional. Because due to DRL, easily seen closing in fast from rear-view mirror. Proton say the same thing... well, almost. 'Smart guys get Inspira'
Different market... in Germany it's like that, maybe because Audis are popular company cars, and the drivers of those cars are typically routined drivers that drive quite fast (I'd say usually 160-220) and they can safely do so, most of them have great timing and judgement and only brake when they really have to, in the hope that the slow car on the fast lane is intimidated to make way before the faster driver has to lose speed), and they feel entitled to do so. So basically you are on the fast lane, and in no time there is suddenly a Audi right behind you with that big nose and the DRLs, flashing his headlights, maybe keeping a 1-4 meter distance at 150 km/h. That's the typical Audi driver
(BMW drivers are just as bad though).
There's a term in Germany... translates to overtaking prestige. Basically how likely is it that others give way on the highway. Drive a Toyota Yaris/Vios, people will just ignore you, pull out in front of you, won't give way. Drive an Inspira and they are much more likely to give way (well, Lancer lah...), Porsche and Ferrari are best of course, and big Mercs, BMWs, Audis, ... Maybe that's why German cars tend to look rather mean and agressive from the front. A friend was constantly ignored in his Toyota Aygo, can be quite dangerous. Since he is driving a Merc the problems are gone. Simply because people expect him to go fast. If they see a cute city car they think he's driving slow. There was the owner of a slightly modified first generation Opel Corsa A (80s B segment hatchback), top speed is 360+ (road legal ), but it's dangerous to drive the car fast according to the owner because everyone underestimates his speed.
Hm... if I have 10k to spend... I can get a speaker. But a bit tight for two...
This post has been edited by kadajawi: Apr 3 2013, 03:53 PM
kinda correct bro, depends on own financial management and ability. i cannot understand some drive a 140K car and rent a flat, why not just a 70K-90K car?
however, real deal drive expensive car into his mansion
or how many cheap car owner do own a mansion? or even a terrace?
Ever considered some people don't want their own property? A friend drives an S5 and lives in a 2 room flat IIRC. Very expensive kitchen (came with the flat) and furniture (his own... I believe his dining table can almost buy a car for). He seems to be happy with that. I'd be. Having your own property is so troublesome, especially if you don't live in there. And young professionals may have to relocate all the time. So what use is a house that ties you down?
I don't give much about brand. Or rather, what is more important to me is to drive something not everyone drives, and of course it has to be good. In Germany I'd like to drive a Preve. Only Preve there is, that would be nice. Or a hearse (too expensive though). But Toyota over there has a poor image, it instantly makes you 20 years older
Can't blame Armani wearers driving Myvi... Some may be forced to do so by their boss. Basically don't look at people and assume you know who they are. They may have different priorities, or other reasons.
Isn't it a good thing in Malaysia to keep a low profile? Less likely to be robbed...
This post has been edited by kadajawi: Apr 4 2013, 12:16 PM
Haha. I couldn't give less if I'm high class or not. I am who I am.
BTW. IMHO people who judge others as high or low class depending on what car are low class people. No matter how much they own.
While I don't think that it is smart to drive an old lousy car because you are stingy, even though you can afford something better, that is your own choice, and the only thing it may say is that you are stingy or scared of being robbed.
Mar 29 2013, 02:39 AM
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