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 V10 - Property Prices (Up, Down or .....), and the debate goes on and on and on ...

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SUStat3179
post Mar 25 2013, 05:15 PM

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QUOTE(zuiko407 @ Mar 25 2013, 05:11 PM)
You need to do your homework for getting the answer of all your question.
Without familiar with the place, the question will always on your head, u can also sell your existing unit, try to move here, I think you will love it, good for your children too
*
Nah, I lived in Subang almost all my life....too used to here already.

I prefer to stay in a double storey house than a condo.

Anyway, I bought that unit for investment, not to stay in.
zuiko407
post Mar 25 2013, 05:19 PM

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QUOTE(tat3179 @ Mar 25 2013, 05:15 PM)
Nah, I lived in Subang almost all my life....too used to here already.

I prefer to stay in a double storey house than a condo.

Anyway, I bought that unit for investment, not to stay in.
*
You can cheap cheap sell your double storey to me, and move in to your 617sf e-tiara
EddyLB
post Mar 25 2013, 05:24 PM

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QUOTE(AppreciativeMan @ Mar 25 2013, 05:01 PM)
I'm aware debt inclusive of car loan, credit card outstanding and personal loan.... Tat is the reason why I rounded of the monthly installment to 2k.... Or I shld put it higher.... Lets say 4k monthly repayment in total....
Similarly working backwards, 17,857 - 4,000 = 13,857, there is still 13,857 balance for other expenditure....
Or I'll do another calculation,
Mr Y Disposable income 5,000 mthly, basing on 140% ratio again what will be his debt amt?
(5,000x12) x 1.4 = 84,000 (debt)
I base on 6% interest, 15 yrs repayment, mthly repayment will be est 710 mthly, lets round off to 1,000
5,000 (income) - 1,000 (all debts) = 4,000 balance for other expenditure....
Any wrong on the following calculation again?
Forget abt if there is any asset included in the debt....
*
I agree to your calculation.

As to whether the ratio is high or not, let's compare to other countries. You can see the chart in the last page. Malaysia household debt / disposal income ratio is very high

Also depends on what type of debt. If you earn RM60k pa, and you have a housing loan of RM84k, I think it is low.

But if you earn RM60k pa, and you have a credit card loan of RM84k, I think it is high
SUStat3179
post Mar 25 2013, 05:31 PM

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QUOTE(zuiko407 @ Mar 25 2013, 05:19 PM)
You can cheap cheap sell your double storey to me, and move in to your 617sf e-tiara
*
Hah! right.... biggrin.gif

you really want to stay in the united states of jam?

Also, nothing below 500K in Mont Kiara...

This post has been edited by tat3179: Mar 25 2013, 05:32 PM
ngaisteve1
post Mar 25 2013, 05:38 PM

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so the next blooming area is those located at MRT stations? newspaper say one. biggrin.gif
AppreciativeMan
post Mar 25 2013, 05:38 PM

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QUOTE(EddyLB @ Mar 25 2013, 05:24 PM)
I agree to your calculation.

As to whether the ratio is high or not, let's compare to other countries. You can see the chart in the last page. Malaysia household debt / disposal income ratio is very high

Also depends on what type of debt. If you earn RM60k pa, and you have a housing loan of RM84k, I think it is low.

But if you earn RM60k pa, and you have a credit card loan of RM84k, I think it is high
*
Yes agreed.
Therefore the general data doesnt give a in depth insight of situation.... Unless there is a break down of different debt.... Or how many percent of the debt belongs to housing, and how many percentage goes to those unproductive loan....
Like u mention, different country, what if Msia debt 80% belong to housing.... Whereas Japan for example 80% is unproductive debt? The comparison also doesn't make sense anymore isn't it?....
agentdiary
post Mar 25 2013, 05:38 PM

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Just to add some points:

The personal debts chart may not included those outside BNM jurisdiction, namely Bafia 1989 and Dfia. So, debts that is off the radar could be much more i.e PTPTN, private loan, unlicensed loan, koperasi loan and etc. So, the figure posted may possibility under reported.

What has triggered the nerve is the recent growth in personal financing that BNM has little power to control, only until the effective implementation of new FSA soon (to control non bank household lending), maybe by the year end. Just to ponder, the avg loan taken last year alone is an increase of over 60%!! The loan takers were mainly youngster aged below 25 with below RM3k income. This is a non collateralize loan and ...... you know how high the risk la.

I believe the overly dependent of Malaysia economy to consumption (new office, house, malls, cars and other households goods) for the past decade and a half (with the lacking focus of improvement real production capacity) is key the current lukewarm employment & job opportunity/development that impairs our labor market salary expansion which couldn't match the GDP growth that is fueled half by consumption rclxub.gif . In order to maintain good lifestyle, average people has to borrow from the future (loan and credits). Who wants to take pain to face reality??

the development is quite staggering, IMO.......

Home mortgage loan is fallen into household debts or in other words, private consumption though it's collateralize with real assets. It depends how you look at it. For me, I tend to agree with the official definition as real estate, unlike business/industrial loan, will not increase the overall productivity for a nation. Case in point is US which is a typical example and Germany is the other side of the coin.


QUOTE(EddyLB @ Mar 25 2013, 04:20 PM)
I think you are thinking all household debt are related to property debt, correct ? If you are referring to household debt, the usual bank guideline will be between 40%-60% of net income. Ie. If RM10k pm / RM120k pa net income, you can probably afford a property about RM1 mil. So the debt/income should be 8-10 times. What is 1.4 times ? Just chicken feet ratio  laugh.gif  Especially like you said, value of properties is going up in long term.

Unfortunately household debt is not property debt only. It includes car debt, credit card debt, personal loan (don't know if education loan included or not, but I think is is part of the household debt).

In the reporting http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysi...hold-debt-rises, the 4th last paragraph says "The bulk of the growth was contributed by the non-bank financial institution segment (NBFI) such as Bank Rakyat Sdn Bhd and Malaysia Building Society Bhd (MBSB), as concern grows over their lending to the lower-income segments." I think this is attributed to the personal loan to mainly government servant. If you are a government servant with RM4000 monthly salary, the bank will approve you RM200,000 of personal loan.

These personal loan (and car and credit card loan) may be "non-productive loans", meaning it is consumption based instead of investment based (like property loan). So 140% is alarming if we compare to other countries. If the economy slows down, people start to lose their jobs, or interest rate increases, then we will feel the effect of servicing the debt. Suddenly, we need to use additional 20% of our income just to pay the installment.
*
chubbyken
post Mar 25 2013, 05:46 PM

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MK and sri hartamas is a nice place to stay, especially landed.
stanicmail
post Mar 25 2013, 05:59 PM

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QUOTE(tat3179 @ Mar 25 2013, 05:31 PM)
Hah! right.... biggrin.gif

you really want to stay in the united states of jam?

Also, nothing below 500K in Mont Kiara...
*
How about Mont Kiara Sophia? Do you check the price?
37 Exposures
post Mar 25 2013, 06:01 PM

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QUOTE(tat3179 @ Mar 25 2013, 03:45 PM)
Pointless....

I bet 90% of Indonesians are rupiah millionaires...
*
The point is 32% of them made their money mainly from property
chubbyken
post Mar 25 2013, 06:02 PM

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QUOTE(stanicmail @ Mar 25 2013, 05:59 PM)
How about Mont Kiara Sophia? Do you check the price?
*
sorry i interrupt
sophia is a bit old...
SUStat3179
post Mar 25 2013, 06:07 PM

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QUOTE(agentdiary @ Mar 25 2013, 05:38 PM)
Just to add some points:

The personal debts chart may not included those outside BNM jurisdiction, namely Bafia 1989 and Dfia. So, debts that is off the radar could be much more i.e PTPTN, private loan, unlicensed loan, koperasi loan and etc. So, the figure posted may possibility under reported.

What has triggered the nerve is the recent growth in personal financing that BNM has little power to control, only until the effective implementation of new FSA soon (to control non bank household lending), maybe by the year end. Just to ponder, the avg loan taken last year alone is an increase of over 60%!! The loan takers were mainly youngster aged below 25 with below RM3k income. This is a non collateralize loan and ...... you know how high the risk la.

I believe the overly dependent of Malaysia economy to consumption (new office, house, malls, cars and other households goods) for the past decade and a half (with the lacking focus of improvement real production capacity) is key the current lukewarm employment & job opportunity/development that impairs our labor market salary expansion which couldn't match the GDP growth that is fueled half by consumption  rclxub.gif . In order to maintain good lifestyle, average people has to borrow from the future (loan and credits). Who wants to take pain to face reality??

the development is quite staggering, IMO.......

Home mortgage loan is fallen into household debts or in other words, private consumption though it's collateralize with real assets. It depends how you look at it. For me, I tend to agree with the official definition as real estate, unlike business/industrial loan, will not increase the overall productivity for a nation. Case in point is US which is a typical example and Germany is the other side of the coin.
*
Yes, but the entire global economy relies on people to take loans and to consume in order to keep the factories humming and people employed and the gdp growth growing....

Funny to think that humanity has reached a point that are able to produce so much that the greatest fear of people is not enough, but so much that people don't want to buy and consume...
stanicmail
post Mar 25 2013, 06:13 PM

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QUOTE(chubbyken @ Mar 25 2013, 06:02 PM)
sorry i interrupt
sophia is a bit old...
*
Yes but is cheap and rental yield can get 6%


Steven83
post Mar 25 2013, 06:17 PM

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QUOTE(tat3179 @ Mar 25 2013, 06:07 PM)
Yes, but the entire global economy relies on people to take loans and to consume in order to keep the factories humming and people employed and the gdp growth growing....

Funny to think that humanity has reached a point that are able to produce so much that the greatest fear of people is not enough, but so much that people don't want to buy and consume...
*
this is why, the rich are become even richer and the poor will become even poorer.
SUStat3179
post Mar 25 2013, 06:23 PM

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QUOTE(stanicmail @ Mar 25 2013, 06:13 PM)
Yes but is cheap and rental yield can get 6%
*
Easy to get rental?

1 bedroom..hmmm...
Nikmon
post Mar 25 2013, 06:28 PM

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QUOTE(stanicmail @ Mar 25 2013, 06:13 PM)
Yes but is cheap and rental yield can get 6%
*
6%, gross or net? Taking account the expensive maintenance fees?
Nikmon
post Mar 25 2013, 06:35 PM

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QUOTE(AppreciativeMan @ Mar 25 2013, 05:01 PM)
I'm aware debt inclusive of car loan, credit card outstanding and personal loan.... Tat is the reason why I rounded of the monthly installment to 2k.... Or I shld put it higher.... Lets say 4k monthly repayment in total....
Similarly working backwards, 17,857 - 4,000 = 13,857, there is still 13,857 balance for other expenditure....
Or I'll do another calculation,
Mr Y Disposable income 5,000 mthly, basing on 140% ratio again what will be his debt amt?
(5,000x12) x 1.4 = 84,000 (debt)
I base on 6% interest, 15 yrs repayment, mthly repayment will be est 710 mthly, lets round off to 1,000
5,000 (income) - 1,000 (all debts) = 4,000 balance for other expenditure....
Any wrong on the following calculation again?
Forget abt if there is any asset included in the debt....
*
Think too much... Just make simple, the higher rate mean higher risk where it is more sensitive to our economic. That's all. But this does not mean it will create bubble.

Bank will be caution and they might become ur enemy.. rclxms.gif rclxms.gif

This post has been edited by Nikmon: Mar 25 2013, 06:40 PM
AppreciativeMan
post Mar 25 2013, 07:00 PM

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QUOTE(Nikmon @ Mar 25 2013, 06:35 PM)
Think too much... Just make simple, the higher rate mean higher risk where it is more sensitive to our economic. That's all. But this does not mean it will create bubble.

Bank will be caution and they might become ur enemy..  rclxms.gif  rclxms.gif
*
I don't usually look into economy data... I dislike those data, and I usually don't trust those data.... tongue.gif
I done the calculation simply because I sees so many concern abt it, so I'm curious wat is so big deal abt those debt data..... So after my calculation, frankly I still don't see it as a big deal abt it..... tongue.gif tongue.gif it doesn't reflect a real problem...
That's why I also wants to clarify did I miss out anything in my calculation and assumption...... If there is nothing wrong on my calculation then it further affirm me those data is misleading and confusing.... tongue.gif tongue.gif tongue.gif

This post has been edited by AppreciativeMan: Mar 25 2013, 07:00 PM
Nikmon
post Mar 25 2013, 07:22 PM

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QUOTE(AppreciativeMan @ Mar 25 2013, 07:00 PM)
I don't usually look into economy data... I dislike those data, and I usually don't trust those data.... tongue.gif
I done the calculation simply because I sees so many concern abt it, so I'm curious wat is so big deal abt those debt data..... So after my calculation, frankly I still don't see it as a big deal abt it.....  tongue.gif  tongue.gif it doesn't reflect a real problem...
That's why I also wants to clarify did I miss out anything in my calculation and assumption...... If there is nothing wrong on my calculation then it further affirm me those data is misleading and confusing....  tongue.gif  tongue.gif  tongue.gif
*
No big deal, even zeti said not bubble. The data is important eventhoug u ignore it. It show the we are at the top, higher debt. We should feel proud of it, and without your, malayasia can't make to the top. rclxms.gif

AppreciativeMan
post Mar 25 2013, 07:39 PM

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QUOTE(Nikmon @ Mar 25 2013, 07:22 PM)
No big deal, even zeti said not bubble. The data is important eventhoug u ignore it. It show the we are at the top, higher debt.  We should feel proud of it, and without your, malayasia can't make to the top.   rclxms.gif
*
U are absolutely right!
I wouldn't mind or I shld say I wish...... I'm capable of owing bank 10mil, 50mil or even 100mil.... drool.gif drool.gif drool.gif

This post has been edited by AppreciativeMan: Mar 25 2013, 07:40 PM

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